back to article Anonymous attacks PayPal in 'Operation Avenge Assange'

Anonymous has launched a broad-ranging campaign in support of Wikileaks, starting with a DDoS assault on a PayPal website. The denial of service attack lasted for eight hours and resulted in numerous service disruptions, Panda Security reports. The group, spawned from anarchic message board 4chan, first came to prominence …


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  1. Anonymous Coward

    The title is required, and must contain letters and/or digits.

    Well well well, looks like the US have their PR hands full for the next decade or so...

  2. JimC

    Oh the irony...

    > we want transparency and we counter censorship

    says a group of anonymous people blocking access to websites...

    1. Slumberingjournalist

      Oh the bronzy...

      I guess the anonymity thing is all about steering well clear of those chaps who provide the courtesy shuttle bus to Uncle Sam's famous holiday camps.

      And I'll bet the "blocking access to websites" stuff is due to the asymmetrical nature of the conflict – it's probably in lieu of marching in to the capital and topping a bronze statue of whatever crook is in charge.

      Whodathunkit? ;-)

    2. Black Betty

      The difference is, personal anonymity works...

      ...with public conspiracy open to public scrutiny.

      What is being fought is known people using the cloak of secrecy to get away with illegal activities right out in the open.

  3. Anonymous Coward


    I heard it was eBaumsworld who did it.

    Democracy? Freedom? Anon, how you have failed thee.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Grenade is up for me "The year of APIs and the reshaping of the payment ecosystem: Part 1" never went down AFAIK.

    Not very impressive, just like when they took down the conservatives website, which turned out to be a local MPs site with tens of visitors denied access for up to hours at a time.

  5. Fihart


    As a member of a rights group that tries to organise donations via Pay Pal (and it doesn't friggin work) I'd welcome a worldwide boycott of Pay Pal, e-bay and its other scam-magnet affiliate, gumtree. They all deserve it for their own annoying ways.

    1. LinkOfHyrule
      Paris Hilton

      you must admit

      Ebay are very fair to all though you must admit - they're one of the few companies that actually screws everyone from consumers, to small business right up to big global luxury brands!

      As long as they get their cut they don't seem to give a shit what's sold through their site! Whether its real of fake, was delivered on time or never showed up, nah, they don't care!* That's my opinion at least based on buying a fake product from their site.

      Paris, 'cus at least with her, you know you're getting the genuine article and her dispute resolution system is second to none!

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward


        Now there's a site I haven't visited in years. Awful place.

        I went through the "eBay phase" much as everyone does, selling all my stuff for pennies on the pound only to end up buying a whole bunch of cheap second hand crap, sorry, "bargains", that's still wasting space in my house to this day.

        Glad I grew out of that. Nowadays when someone says "I make a living on eBay" the words "loser" or "con artist" are never too far behind.

        There are so many negative connotations attached to eBay now that saying you use it is almost as bad as admitting that you film people from the bushes, then sell them the tapes.

      2. Anonymous Coward

        eBay Stasi are hard at work!

        You've never accidentally sold anything that contravenes their policies then?

        I tried to sell a GP32 OSS game device about 2-3 years ago, I put in the description that it could play ZX Spectrum games. Next thing the eBay Stasi are down on me, pulled my auction and threatened me with a "quiz of honesty" to ensure I don't do it again next time I try to list something!

        When I complained I was told, "We don't single people out, but we must ensure that no counterfeiting or selling of counterfeit goods are performed on eBay.". I pointed out that a simple browse through the Sony PSP listings shows countless violations of their so called policies, no reply.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward


    Anonymous seem to be turning into the internet version of the US Government, self-appointed guardians of the content of the web, stepping in wherever they disagree with a decision made by others and attempting to throw their weight around in an attempt to make sure their interests are retained without interferance.

    1. John King 1

      Yeah, but...

      I prefer the reasons why Anonymous are doing this rather than the reasons why Governments are trying to halt the activities of WikiLeaks and character-assassinate Assange.

      Personally I think the world will be a better more open place in 3 years time once the WikiLeaks dust has settled.

      Is it time for new Assange devil/angel icons on the comments here?

    2. Anonymous Coward

      with a slight difference

      Anon doesnt have money. They dont lobby senators and MPs on golf courses. its beyond the realm of possibility that the things they want will be quietly greenlit into law by civil servants without review.

      They also dont have unified agreement. If you dont support Assange, then you dont have to campaign. its not like the FDA or GlaxoSmithKline-Beecham, where if you disagree with something you can just not do it.

      So no, its not a valid comparison. they can DDoS and subvert, but they cant threaten trade embargoes. they cant recall your countries debt or intimate that unless you sell them cheap _resource x_ you'll get it from elsewhere and you'll buy everything else their country sells from somewhere else too.

      Anonymous' agenda, and its effectiveness in pursuing that agenda is only as limited as the drive and commitment of each individual member _to each specific cause_.

      Genius tag because you're obviously being wilfully obtuse.

      1. Neil Paterson


        That you posted as AC - that is quite possibly the finest, most elegantly argued comment I have ever read at El Reg! Keep it up!

  7. BillG


    Ah, "Anonymous" wants to combat censorship by censoring PayPal. Yeah, that'll impress people.

    "The means by which we strive must be consistent with the ends we seek!"

    - Dr. Martin Luthor King

    1. Aitor 1

      Luther King..

      Do I have to remind you how he ended his days?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        RE: Luther King..

        "Do I have to remind you how he ended his days?"

        On the playground is where he spent mosta his days,

        Chillin out, maxin', relaxin' all cool,

        An' all shootin some B-ball outside of the school,

        When a couple o' guys who were up to no good,

        Started makin' trouble in his neighbourhood,

        He got in one little fight and his mum got scared,

        She said 'You're movin with your auntie and uncle in Bel-Air!'

    2. LaeMing

      So who

      will censor the censors of the censors? And who will censor them in turn.

      Or is it more an ouroboros thing?

    3. Gav
      Big Brother

      Save us all from those who know they are right

      Censoring websites and organisations that you do not agree with is not censorship. Censorship is a necessary step in the fight against censorship.

      It's not hypocrisy if you refuse to accept there is any other alternative. There is no alternative. Those who think there is an alternative can be ignored.

      All those who do not agree with this will be punished until they see the errors of their ways.

      Freedom must not stand in the way of the struggle for Freedom

      1. BillG

        Ya Gotta Be Kidding

        > Censorship is a necessary step in the fight against censorship.

        Excuse my while I laugh so hard my keyboard shorts out from the drool...!

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Anonymous will support your freedom...

    ... to do what you like as long as they agree with it.

    The moment you exercise you freedom and decide not to do business with, say, wikileaks they will attack you.

    1. Goat Jam

      Ironically, it was an AC who said . . .

      "The moment you exercise you freedom and decide not to do business with, say, wikileaks they will attack you"

      I don't do business with Wikileaks? Should I be prepared for an attack?

  9. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

    When /b/ first came for PayPal, I didn't say anything...

    ...but then again, PayPal deserved it.

  10. Tom 7

    We should boycott paypal

    because they seriously overcharge for a simple service.

    As for Anonymous - who are they? No seriously, by what right other than self importance do they do these thing?

    1. David Hicks

      They have as much right to do this

      As the governments of the world have to take my money and kill in my name.

      None whatsoever.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "message board 4chan"

    4chan is not a message board, it's a website hosting a bunch of message boards. Anonymous is associated with 4chan's /b/ messageboard.

  12. serviceWithASmile

    the web would be boring

    if it weren't for stuff like this.

    Where normally I would say "go anonymous", I don't really have an opinion on this one, but you can't deny the entertainment value.

    I know plenty of people disagree with their tactics and view them as irresponsible "skiddies" (a term I never knew existed before reading el reg comments).

    I don't disagree with the sentiment but rules quickly become meaningless when only one side plays by them - right now that's us, and until not so long ago, probably most of Anonymous too.

    Might seem a little OT but I'm mostly talking about Operation Payback here. Not sure if I will be cheering on Operation Assange or not, but I will be getting in some popcorn.

  13. jsmythe

    The removal of the veil of invisible government, is something to desire not fear

    It's almost as though those with the intellectual capacity to harness the full capabilities of the technologies allowed in the hands of the people don't wish to be silenced, this can only be applauded.

    For too long we as people have been held back from any form of intellectual, spiritual and evolutionary progression by the crimes and illusion of governance foisted onto those of us less keen on it's subtle controls.

    Pity none of you opposing this, see or even barely understand this very concept, your desires for the slavery of man is not one that will be met without a fight, only know this if anything at all, we have control of transmission.

  14. Chris Hatfield

    PayPal must be used to DDoS, but from criminals

    I would imagine they are held to ransom, frequently. (From Eastern European gangs etc.) They probably have the infrastructure to deal with a moderate DDoS attack.

    I too champion Wikileaks, Assange & transparency, but I don't think this approach will actually get any results.

    I'm sure the eBaums World crowd have a good heart, but they should realise it's not legal and it won't work. Lobbying MPs? As if they give a fuck about what we think! Hah. They have to obey the party leader - they would get sacked if they opposed a policy. (Remember what happened to Professor David Nutt -- and he wasn't even a politician!)

    Anyway, great coverage El Reg.

    PS - be sure to check out the Wikileaks rap video on Youtube (news spoof)

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Down


    so its better that we let the US govt control all the web content for us then?

    yeah much better not upset them with the truth.

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Nietzsche sez:

    "The most perfidious way of harming a cause consists of defending it deliberately with faulty arguments."

    - although the article does say they plan on doing other, more constructive activities as well...

  17. 4chanuser


    I'm from 4chan. I'm a socialist, not an anarchist. Just because the website has no real rules doesn't mean the people who go there are anarchists lad. Get your facts right.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up

    Assange is the patron saint of trolls

    4chan manage to annoy scientologists, big deal.

    Assange manages to dick off most of the world, and with some incredible style. I'm sure 4chan appreciates that.

  19. Anonymous Coward


    Whilst these people might be calling themselves Anonymous it's quite clear by their mission statement that these are not the same people who started the movement on /b/, or for that matter even have the same mind-set.

    What happened to the RAGE anon?

  20. Bilgepipe


    This isn't about transparency, you f*cking morons. People are going to die if this "leaking" of information/Julian Assange's personal crusade continues. There's nothing clever about releasing information likely to endanger people and potentially start a conflict. And living near to one of the locations listed in the most recent "leak" makes it all the more worrying.

    Grenade, for WikiLeaks and all it's mirrors.

    1. Dagg Silver badge

      Personal crusade?

      >People are going to die if this "leaking" of information/Julian Assange's personal crusade continues.

      You mean just like all the people who died because Pres. bush had a personal crusade against iraq and invented the weapons of mass destruction BS to start a war. The US govn. even exposed one of their own secret service staff (V Plame) and put her and her family in danger! One one word for the us "Hypocrite".

      Just look at how much energy the us is using to stop WikiLeaks, it might be better if this was used against kiddy porn instead.

      1. Bilgepipe


        "You mean just like all the people who died because Pres. bush had a personal crusade against iraq and invented the weapons of mass destruction BS to start a war."

        So that makes it okay to leak information likely to endanger MORE innocent people in the name of Assange's idea of transparency? Instead of going after Bush and his cronies at the time, or seeking to prevent more Bushes and cronies from doing the same in the future, we endanger more people and infrastructure?

        Bizarre. I await the first terrorist attack resulting from Assanges crusade - hopefully it won't take place near you or your family.

        1. Anonymous Coward


          I would suggest that the first step in going against 'Bush and his cronies' might be to expose their misdemeanours to the world, no?

          I find the idea of a 'terrorist attack' resulting from anything on Wikileaks to be midly laughable. Quite apart from the fact that the likelihood fo being hurt or killed in such an attack is minimal, even in those countries where such things are a matter of course (Palestine anyone?). If the US had spent even one percent of what has been pissed up against the wall fighting terrorism on such things as promoting road safety, more deaths would have been prevented. Arguably not starting The War Against Terror may have saved lives in and of itself.

          Whilst I don't necessarily agree with leaking of details which might put people in danger, do you not think that if Assange can get his hands on this information and make it public, others might be equally well able to do so anyway? Do you not think that anyone who might attack another person based upon something on Wikileaks might have the means and motivation to be attacking innocent people anyway?

          Personally, I haven't actually read any of the stuff on Wikileaks, it holds little interest. Historical evidence has already shown that governments do underhand things, there is no reason to think that the present incumbents in any country are any different.

    2. The Fuzzy Wotnot


      For the first time in ages on The Reg, the name of the poster actually fits the subject of the post.

      Utter piffle and total bilge from Mr Bilgepipe!

    3. MrCheese

      @ Bilgepipe

      Wikileaks won't have endangered anyone, only the crooks you elected into office have

      Grenade, for all those opposed to free speech, accountability and trustworthy government

    4. foo_bar_baz

      There's a good troll

      Has release of Wikileaks documents cost lives?

  21. Anonymous Coward

    Ye Gods

    Both groups have lost it. Wikileaks are spewing out private infomation with no more reason than causing embarsiment. Who cares what a US diplomat thinks of the UK, and how is sights the US think are vital to them in the public interest? They have gone from doing good to being anachists and distructive.

    4Chan and Anonymous have become playground bullys, and the flame heavy angry geek that pervaded 4Chan has leaked on to the rest of the web.

    Its time both of them pulled back and thought about where they are going and how much longer they can stay a force for good going the way they are.

    Unfortunatly as both are hive mind places they will head off the way of wikipedia, a good idea to start with but totaly out of control eventualy becomeing a joke.

    I fully expect to be flamed and downvoted to death for this post...

    1. John G Imrie

      Who cares what a US diplomat thinks of the UK

      Not me.

      I don't even care how many mistresses my local (female) MP has.

      Until that is their public statements disagree with their private actions.

      Then I care.

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Paypal / eBay et. al.

    The problem with a "new" boycott paypal movement, is everyone who was going to boycott paypal, already has over earlier issues. e.g. the locking of the money. So nothing short of declaring paypal "financial terrorists" from 300 million people, is going to hurt paypal and by proxy eBay.

  23. ratfox

    Pass the popcorn... again

    This IS entertaining.

  24. Paul_Murphy

    I must admit that..

    I'm left with a feeling of disgust over the behaviour of paypal and others who seem to leap on any excuse to punish a single person.

    Assange is not wikileaks - he is just the figurehead, and though I feel that wikileaks is behaving more like an attention whore than a legitimate organisation I also feel that if our 'system' of democracy actually worked then we would not have any need whatsoever of wikileaks,

    Oh wow - I just checked the list of wikileaks mirrors (quote: 'Wikileaks is currently mirrored on 507 sites (updated 2010-12-06 14:02 GMT)'):

    And here is some help to find alternatives to paypal:

    Shame - I just bought Snow Crash from ebay using paypal, I don't really want to stop using it, but I'm starting to feel I must do something.

    Maybe I'll use my collection of junk to build a TOR-based wikileaks mirror and hide it in my shed.


  25. Anonymous Coward

    What is this nonsense

    Wtf? Anarchic 4chan?

    4chan = anarchist about as much as USA = turtles. Sure, they got some, but that doesn't mean the US is a turtle country.

    Anyway, props to Anon on using their powers for good. I think it's funny how people whine about Anon's methods when they use them against corrupt scumbags entities.

  26. Anonymous Coward

    What's really interesting about all of this

    Is how so many Wikileaks "supporters" are undermining Wikileaks reputation. One has to wonder how many are really agent provocateurs setting Wikileaks up.

  27. Jeremy 2


    I remember when Anonymous used to pull stunts that at least raised a smile. Flash-mobbing in front of Scientology places in V For Vendetta masks and whatnot. These days, it's all just "Hmmm, let's 'protest' <insert cause here>. But what should we do?...... Hmmmm...... Oh, I know! Let's DDoS them!"


  28. Philip Cohen
    Thumb Down

    Ahhhh, PayPal ...

    But all the other unscrupulous/criminal activities that you, and the eBafia, facilitate on we simple peasants are OK?

    “Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel”—Samuel Johnson.

    eBay/PayPal/Donahoe: Dead Men Walking.

  29. Anonymous Coward

    Assange is no "Hero"

    For those who are advocating this kind of espionage continue, and that Assange is a "Hero", think of it this way: Let's post every email and conversation you have ever had to all of your friends and family.....let's post all you bank account numbers....let's post all the nasty remarks you've ever made about another person...maybe even about your boss...on the web and let everyone read them. How, how many friends do you think you would have? How many jobs would you get in the future? What would happen to your bank accounts? This is what is happening to the US and it's allies.

    Sure government accountability is essential, but now he is releasing sensitive information about interests that are vital to our country to anyone with access to the internet and to a web browser....those not only include us...but our ENEMIES!!

    Don't be stupid and think this helps our doesn't. Don't be so political to say that it's OK because it hurts Obama (I didn't vote for him) hurts our intelligence gathering, how will we be able to gather intel to stop the next attack? hurts our military and helps our enemies locate us as well as our friends and eliminate hurts our interests, yes our vital interests that we need here in the hurts our country...we are all members of this country and should protect as we would our own homes...

    1. Daniel Garcia 2

      RE:senseless argumentation

      can you not see the subtle difference between state organizations and his members and your/mine friends and family?

      is call POWER.

      simpleton patriots like you always forget that those who seek power and hold power can have hidden(not as in conspiracy theories but more like untold clearly on public) agendas only share by small elite collective.

      US is right now a two-head oligarchy, not far from Russian and Chinese one head oligarchy, only your constitutional rights makes the real difference.

      that is the real danger for USA, every time for grandstanding or for fear-mongering, your constitutional right are reduce, USA is less the land of Freedom. Each year i can see more and more Americans willing to sacrifice those rights and less caring about to export those right to others nation people.

      the tidal locking of the voting system has make your voting right already a mockery of what should be; only public perception has a limited power to drive politicians toward the general interest. that is the last bastion of democratic power in USA and only through deep perception the public will know what is happening behind the propaganda smokescreen and force them (because you don't really decide who is in power, you only chose between the already chosen, their natural will is to favor the elite) to do good.

      you don't need wikileaks if you already are willing to give up your right for freedom and peace,

      many already has unconsciously done that already.

    2. foo_bar_baz

      We, who, what?

      "we are all members of this country and should protect as we would our own homes..."

      Check the URL of the site you're posting on. It's (gasp!) in Europe!

      Here's an excercise for you: in your own words, please explain who are your "ENEMIES" and why are they hostile to you?

      Part 2: What vital interests have been hurt by the leaked documents, and how have they been hurt?

  30. kain preacher


    Now he has pissed of the UK government . GO ahead piss of Israel. Go on do it.

    Head line news Wiki leaks founder dies of cancer. Naw thats more the US or Russia's style. Wiki leak founder walks into Saudi embassy and blows him self up. Never mind the pictures of the cruse missile circulating on the net with the Israeli flag on it.

  31. heyrick Silver badge

    What's the big deal with attacking PayPal?

    The way I see it, PayPal dropping WikiLeaks might have done them a favour. Oh, it'll be harder to find ways to raise donations, but probably simpler than getting PayPal to see reason if it ever decides to freeze their account for review, examination, whatever...

    Let us not forget, PayPal is the closest thing to an international bank that willfully resists all attempts to be labelled "a bank", thus the codes of practice drawn up, for good reason, don't apply.

  32. Winkypop Silver badge
    Thumb Up

    I love the Internet

    I do.

  33. James Woods


    fuck you paypal.

  34. E 2

    This is what democracy looks like.

    This is what democracy looks like.

  35. E 2


    That is somehow different from the people who die because the gov'ts operate behind screens?

    Do you think a life taken with gov't sanction is less valuable than one taken without?

    Perhaps you could find an einsatzgrupen to join...

    1. MrCheese

      @E 2

      "Perhaps you could find an einsatzgrupen to join..."

      I call Godwin's Law on you sir!

  36. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL too

    Man, I'm trying to bank today.

    Assange lied on his application for a PF bank account. He broke their rules and they are right to can his account.

    What they should do is send the money to any other account he chooses or let him come and get it.

    Honestly, though, Wikileaks does not have anything but its own agenda - to make the world understand nothing can be truly kept secret anymore. Actually, we're better off not knowing some of the stupid crap that goes on - who cares what people think of each other?

    Or should we all let on that we think Julian's a bit of a egotistic nob?

  37. John King 1

    Alternative to Godwin's Law?

    Is there an alternative to Godwin's Law for when internet discussions eventually mention Israel?

    From the above comment it sounds like they're a real peaceful open-minded bunch.

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

  38. Frank Fisher
    Thumb Up

    Good - paypal are knuckling under to the yank govt

    It's all well and good having a commitment to free speech in your constitution - but why bother if the first time it bites your arse you send the Black Hats in to attack the mouthy irritation? I was furious with paypal for joining in this witch-hunt, even though, I'm still a little suspicious of wikileaks. Far too many suggestions of a Soros link, etc.

  39. brym


    ...legitimate PayPal users suffer while Anon throws their dolly out the pram. Get a f*cking clue, morons! Do you have loved ones enlisted and overseas? This type of childish short-sightedness puts them in even greater danger, regardless of whether or not you believe they should be over there in the first place. Not to mention the countless HUMINT assets trying to protect you.

    It's embarrassments like these which almost make communism appealing.

    1. Anonymous Coward


      Don't tell me the US Government is paying for mission critical kit with PayPal? Or do the Taliban become enraged and attack when they can't buy tat online without using a credit card?

      It's only NASA who shop on Ebay!

    2. Anonymous Coward

      Be careful what you ask for

      Fascism, communism: the same authoritarian crap, just with a different theme song (the workers vs. the nation). All your talk about freedoms and democracy sounds more and more like "the people's democratic republic" communist states, which so obviously were neither the people's nor democratic.

      Should we outside the US start worrying now that your economy is down the drain, are you going to have another convenient war to focus the mind somewhere else? What is it now, having waged the communist, drug, terrorist etc. wars? The war on Broccoli? I bet that wouldn't raise any more eyebrows among your "loved ones enlisted and overseas", protecting the theater you think of as "democracy".

    3. MrCheese

      @ brym

      What numpty-tree did you fall out of?? PayPal and Amazon dumping on an organisation attempting to keep the Gov't honest will do more for terrorism than Anon DDOS-ing PayPal, big fscking deal - so a bunch of folks buying tat from eBay won't be able to make a payment, so what else is new for PayPal eh?

      Have you got loved ones over there? Do have to sit here and see the very reasons they went out there evaporate in politico-talk BS!?! Both US and UK have admitted "errr, well actually it's all crap, there are no dubya-eem-dees". Now, get your stupid-self a bloody great big clue OK? People are dying becuase your government lied to you for a flimsy excuse to invade the middle east.

      While I'm not sure I agree with the methods of Wikilekas and/or Anon, if they're the only people crusading for freedom and accountability, the only ones keeping governement honest then they've got my support.

      1. brym


        Wind your neck in, CheesePuff. Firstly, I'm not American. Secondly, re-read my post. You've clearly missed the points I felt shouldn't have required fine detail to explain.

        PayPal is used daily by hundreds of legitimate users and businesses. While PayPal can no doubt afford to withstand a DDoS, it's still incredibly short-sighted of Anon to potentially affect the transactions of those legitimate users. How does that keep governments honest? Seems more like the playground fight-starer "My Dad's bigger than your Dad" response. Mature.

        Many of my friends are currently serving, both in the different arms of the forces, and in my former regiment. While I disagree entirely with the reasons for going, the fact remains that we are still over there, and our support for our servicemen and women, rather than the mission, is what needs to be absolute. Disclosing details like informant or undercover identities risks not only them and their families, but our uniformed personnel too.

        The tree you claim I fell from? Clearly wasn't the one you still occupy.

  40. MinionZero
    Big Brother

    Its good for all of us that more people are starting to make a stand.

    I've seen increasing numbers of people liken what is happening to the start of an information war. The first virtual global information war against increasing authoritarian tyranny. But then for the past few years we have all had to watch endless and often shocking erosions of our privacy and freedom, (many of which regular readers have seen on TheReg) so I think many educated people all around the world (who try to keep up with current events) have now had enough of what they are seeing. What we are witnessing is more people making a stand and the battle ground is the Internet and the weapons are information of what is really going on behind our backs, as we are endlessly lied to by our arrogant authoritarian masters.

    Plus our ruling masters have tried to re-educate us all into believing we have no privacy and that any attempt to have privacy means we have something to hide. Yet in such a world its inevitable that people would then expect their representatives in government to also conform to the same expectations they seek to impose on us. They are after all our representatives in government.

    Also three million people had access to all these diplomatic documents, so every country in the world would have at least one spy in that three million people able to leak all of what we are now seeing to their governments. Everything we are seeing they already know!. Therefore all of the politicians self righteous indignation is yet more of their lies. Its an act for our benefit to try to fool us once again. They say government diplomatic relations cannot function like this in the open, yet all sides already know what the other side thinks of them. THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T UNTIL NOW KNOWN WHAT IS HAPPENING ARE ALL OF US! ... we are the true targets of their secrecy and lies. They seek to lie to us, because that way they can get away with whatever they bloody well want to do.

    Democracy is supposed to represent the views of the people, not the increasing authoritarian tyranny views of our lying two faced masters who show they don't represent us, but instead seek to lie to us as they seek to impose their increasing authoritarian police state onto us.

    So yes, its very good that people are starting to make a stand!

    1. Frank Fisher

      The first virtual global information war ....

      Not quite. I think you can characterise the widespread undermining of the fake intel used to support war in Kosovo as, perhaps, the first skirmish. Then the same process against the fake intel used to propagandise for Iraq. Maybe the first battle? The first *succesful* battle in the infowars against "our" governments would have to be the campaign to force the media and govt to notice Climategate (and btw, it really baffles me that so many people accept we're being lied to about practically everything in the govt domain *except* this AGW fantasy).

      Whatever, as I've written many times, governments that pretend to democratic consent cannot function without control fo the narrative; a free internet makes that control impossible. Ergo, a war on the free internet. They have no choice. Either they relinquish power, or they sieze control fo the internet - there are no other choices.

      1. Loyal Commenter Silver badge

        Sorry, going to have to correct your massive nonsequitur there

        Apart from the fact that you pulled an anti-global warming argument out of the bag there, which is a bit of a nonsequitur in itslef, let me put you straight on the 'climategate' issue.

        Essentially, a number of scientists who do work on studying the climate were being harassed by political lobbyists, whose interests were to attempt to show that there is no anthropogenic global warming (AGW). These people didn't much care for whether they were telling teh truth or not, they just wished to get their hands on raw data that the scientists had been working on so that they could deliberately misrepresent it.

        'Climategate' revolves around the resistance of these scientists to having their time wasted and their work misrepresented by lobbyists. Arguably, as scientists, they should have been more open. However, the one thing 'Climategate' does not demonstrate is that the evidence for AGW is incorrect in any way.

        AGW is not fantasy, despite what lobbyists for coal, oil and gas companies would have you think. It's something we should be doing something about, and in pretty short order, before we REALLY screw the climate up.

        Unfortunately, it is looking like the politicians won't be actually doing anything about it, so it'll be down to the scientists to stand around on bits of high ground in 20 or 30 years time saying 'I told you so' before people realise that they were hoodwinked by lobbyists' agendas. Maybe then people will start to realise that science and politics are essentially the opposite of each other (science = pursuit of knowledge for the sake of humanity, politics = spreading of lies for the sake of greed).

        1. Frank Fisher


          Scientists? A scientist would be someone who applies the scientific method right - does anyone at CRU? Nope. No controls. No replication. The "experimental evidence" resides inside models that, gosh, we learn are packed to the gunwhales with "fudge factors". AGW is the biggest fattest lie in the world today. Perhaps that's an opinion, but what isn't opinion, but simple fact, is that it ain't "science". Not a science that can sit comfortably next to physics, chemistry or anything since Newton.

      2. MinionZero
        Big Brother

        @Frank Fisher

        Skirmish, Battle, War … whatever ... what we call it is unimportant. The key factor is that increasing numbers of people have had enough and now some are starting to push back as this news shows.

        "many people accept we're being lied to"

        No, many people are annoyed they are lied to and sick of the increasing authoritarian tyranny but many until now have felt they can't do much about it. Ironically voicing frustration and anger online is exactly the right thing to do, as its building a massive wave of anger against our leaders, which will force them to finally listen to us all. But in our leaders continuing arrogance, they are currently denying any requirement to behave like our representatives and instead pretending to be the wounded party, plus all the time seeking yet more authoritarian moves against us, trying to stop us seeing what they have been doing behind our backs.

        So then added to this increasing public anger at the growing authoritarian tyranny we have Wikileaks finally confirming all our worst suspicions that are leaders don't really represent us, but instead lie endlessly to us. Yet they are elected to represent us. Its like the final straw, increasing numbers of people have had enough.

        So its definitely the start of something. The governments will obviously try to down play it and seek to silence it and seek to cut off Wikileaks and maybe it will all appear to go quiet for a while, but our public anger and worst suspicions have now been confirmed by Wikileaks. That is going to make more people seek ways to push back against the increasingly unfair authoritarian attitudes of the governments who should be representing us.

  41. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward


    I disagree with Anonymous - some of the things they do are stupid, like some (but not all) of the anti-copyright DDoS attacks. The companies that attacked torrent sites with DDoS themselves deserved retaliation, and the people who paid them. Nobody else did though - ridiculous militant freetards.

    On the other hand, Paypal is thoroughly evil, the ebay/Paypal system makes money by obscuring and misrepresenting peoples ACTUAL rights as buyers and sellers, and many changes they've made serve only to protect underhand activity - for example messing with the bid history pages so you can't easily spot shill bidding. They deserve whatever they get, even if the reason isn't sound.

    1. Stephen Gray


      "On the other hand, Paypal is thoroughly evil, the ebay/Paypal system makes money by obscuring and misrepresenting peoples ACTUAL rights as buyers and sellers."

      Do you live in a place where using Paypal and ebay are compulsory? How is Paypal evil? Are you on medication?

  42. bugalugs

    At last sight paypal et al

    were registered in Switzerland, land of the ( more more than less ) free. Paypal has always traded on its ability to transfer funds to any e-mail address. Can't do it ? Please close my account. Thankyou.

  43. Anonymous Coward
    Jobs Horns

    Paypal = Not nice people in the first place.

    In September 2006, PayPal settled a four-year class-action suit with the attorneys general of 28 states. The states were acting on a multitude of consumer complaints regarding PayPal's customer service policies. The complaints included accounts being frozen without notice, bank accounts being debited instead of charges going on credit cards as requested, and, as above, more complaints about the lack of refunds for items purchased online but not received.

    Consumers also complained that the Web site was difficult to navigate, and that obtaining information about financial transactions was cumbersome and required clicking through numerous levels of hyperlinks.

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