Wikileaks: Berlusconi useless, Pope Catholic The release today of leaked US State Department cables is unlikely, despite some media claims, to shake western democracy to the very foundation of sub-prime mortgages on which it stands. Among the Wikileaks shockers are the descriptions of Silvio Berlusconi as "feckless, vain, and ineffective as a modern European leader", …
Treason against what? He isn't American.
Also, treason is bollocks anyway - you should be more harshly punished because you operated against the interests of your own government? What happens when the interests or the government change - suddenly you are innocent again? A crime (if there is one) should be prosecuted as the actual crime regardless of who it is committed against.
/Unexpected treason rant
However, I think the deep issue here is whether or not secrecy itself can survive as a concept in this computerized age. Obviously Facebook thinks not, but how much of your personal data will be shared before you can't stand it? Will we see mass epidemics of suicides from public shaming? Will privacy become the most valuable luxury good available only to the super-rich?
will we see a mass rejection of computer systems and modern communications?
No, I don't think so either, although it is not a long step to see that the most sensitive information may be declared not to be stored electronically, I suppose at least you can eat or burn paper...
I think we are moving to the the transparent society that the SF author David Brin have been banging on about for years, where it becomes impossible (and eventually illegal) to keep secrets.
Google for "human search engine china" and read about the stories - some uplifting, some horrible - of mass online searches by tens of thousands of people in China. Mass computerization and the fading of privacy is already changing things, and where it will end up is something we should be thinking about.
The cut and pasted copy of the treason laws were Australian.
Just as an aside I have friends who have been to both Afghanistan and Iraq. I have family who may now be posted to Afghanistan. How come so many people who comment on here support Assange, and Wikileaks releasing operational data?
I find some of the revelations de rigueur, British Royals upsetting foreigners, Americans wanting to spy on the world and his dog etc. I find some of the leaks interesting e.g. China and North Korea. The leak about Saudi Arabia and Iran puts the US position in the Middle East in a much better light. But I could live without this knowledge to ensure the safety of my friends and family.
Those being commented on are obviously redneck Wallys who if you gave them a half a brain would have half a brain. They've opened their mouths with a little terse commentary about others from different countries & have been caught out. If we got the same info from another country regarding the rednecked Americans you'd be outraged but that's all. A pathetic excuse for getting upset about it & really comical.
The aspect of Treason that describes this behaviour would be -
(f) engages in conduct that assists by any means whatever, with intent to assist:
(i) another country; or
(ii) an organisation;
Seems clear enough this leak hasn’t just affected the US, but lots of other countries almost certainly including Australia.
Quote:
The aspect of Treason that describes this behaviour would be -
(f) engages in conduct that assists by any means whatever, with intent to assist:
(i) another country; or
(ii) an organisation;
Seems clear enough this leak hasn’t just affected the US, but lots of other countries almost certainly including Australia.
/Quote
To what?
Have a Tea Dance?
Wikileaks raised my expectations way high, and only released a bunch of pointless gay banter. I feel betrayed indeed. What am I supposed to do with this spanking new tinfoil hat I bought on eBay? Cost me a fortune, but then it did have the extra mind-waves blocking device. I'll have to wait for the next leak announcement to quickly flog it back.
State Department officials repeatedly warned against having themes from The Third Man, The 39 Steps or any James Bond film as ringtones.
Robert Mugabe's barber was a CIA agent tasked with "subliminal tonsorial subversion"
Monthly diplomatic bulletins from Vanuatu and Tuvalu were identical for 3 years before anyone noticed.
At least one document ending with "hope this doesn't end up on wikileaks. Lolz"
Plans to smear media company using a biscuit-based sex scandal.
The *real* eye opener was that numerous Arab governments have encouraged the US to attack Iran, something which your story seems to have passed over!
Agreed, an awful lot of the rest falls into the 'bleedin obvious' category, but that one definitely is not. Even if it could have been guessed-at, the number of different governments doing this is a big surprise and the information will have major repercussions.
I think the dig here is at those that have posted moronic bilge in other Reg forums, maintaining that Merkin foreign policy is just to kill brown people at every opportunity, when the truth is we have brown people begging said Merkns to kill other brown people and the US saying "no". What's the betting we won't see any of those idiots posting about these leaks soon?
Eh? That most of the Arab world wants the US to dismember Iran is an eye opener? Seemed pretty blatantly obvious to me. Where've you been living? Ah... in some imaginary world where war doesn't exist and we can all co-exist peacefully so disarm? Sheesh.
Here's another newsflash - Venezuelans would love the US to come in and remove Chavez.
"That most of the Arab world wants the US to dismember Iran is an eye opener? "
Perhaps it's not an eye opener for you. I'm sure it will be for most of the population of Muslim countries. Even if many suspected this, having 'proof' is very important. This will have lots of consequences.
The - already big- gap between Shiites and Sunnites will grow enormously. On the other hand they'll have to stop using the crappy "Muslim brotherhood" rhetoric. Who knows?Due to their public opinions pressure, they may even have to change their policies radically, and acquire some tolerance and democracy* in the process. One can always dream...
You remember that old meme that goes something like 'They know that we know, that they know...'. Governments are always playing this kind of games, which are chaotic with just a few players. Wikileaks has added many more players to the game and by doing so they have changed the rules.
Kudos to them
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Here's another newsflash - Venezuelans would love the US to come in and remove Chavez."
Chavez is a populist dictator, and he knows his trade so well that he has yet significant popular support after many years and many errors.
*Note: by 'more democracy' I mean things like human rights, transparent government, separation of religion and state... you know, all those values that once were abundant in our western democracies.
I've studied just a little history of that region and wasn't surprised at all by those revelations. Much like christians these guys are Saudis and Iraqis before they are Muslims. There's a history inter-regional strife down there that dates back to at least before Napoleon (that I know of) and would assume probably date back to Rome and before.
And I think the Brits should especially appreciate any attempt to convince two nations you are hostile towards (both culturally and politically) to go to war with each other. Either way you're coming up roses.
So in short not only am I not surprised by their encouragement but consider it incredibly hostile to both the U.S. and Iran.
The Lesterlowski twins are expecting the actual memos of Cigarette Smoking Man from WikiLeaks right now, otherwise they throw a ridiculous tantrum?
Go back to your tired Dan Brown novels, both of you.
In case you missed it, these are just the memos of overpaid government employees who are pulling us into directions unwanted by a dog leash around our necks.
But we knew that since at least Tony The Bliar, s'truth.
Now the Pope is only 'probably' Catholic I will need to stop using my 'Is the Pope Catholic... does the bear shit in the woods'... statement when I am emphasising the answer is obviously yes - because now the americans will have it that the answer is only probably. Amazing these people are able to decide the fate of other countries...
Only a little of what has hit the headlines recently fits into the interesting category for me yet. Although half the middle east asking the US to bomb Iran is interesting if not unexpected (the Saudi's did invite the huge military presence to be in their country, largely contributing to the unease which fed Al-Qaeda's rise). I want to see some more subtle stuff which may or may not be in the documents being released. For example official UK/US correspondence during the Falkland's Conflict. Or how the US dealt with their refusal to allow US service personnel to testify at inquiries into friendly fire incidents.
You may not remember but some time ago there were a few reports of "red mercury" and a lot of speculation on what it is - mostly conspiracy theories.
Now, one of the memos confirms that it is part of plutonium enrichment process.
In 1994 (?) a mix of mercury compounds and plutonium was found by police in germany on some individual (see wikipedia for links).
Connect the dots.
I need to hide, helicopters are near...
a bunch of Arab countries that rely on the USA for all their aid / support / military equipment want the US to bomb Iran. Bit of a win-win for them really. They get their despot neighbour eliminated at no expense to themselves.......and we call them 3rd world countries! They have got the good old US of A running round like a big soft dog chasing a stick.
I did notice that Jordan wanted Iran bombing too.......bit much - just because she couldn't visit good 'ol Peter Andre in hospital!
/sound of coat being fetched
Treason doth never prosper.
What's the reason?
If it prosper,
None dare call it treason.
Sir John Harrington
or as Seneca said: successful and fortunate crime is called virtue.
Invade a country, kill 750,00, internally displace 2,500,000, externally displace 2,000,000, corruptly enrich your mates (Cheney and Rumsfeld) and make Iran a regional superpower with significant influence over the irate Shias in Iraq = good
Show this happens = bad
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am I the only person who thinks we need one of these.
it's job could be to interveine when a polotition is going to open there mouth and say somthing stupid or to point out the masive holes in there policy?
they could have stoped such noticable gaffs so tony blaires "martch youths to cash points" speach
So everything seems so obvious that it's time to spit on wikileaks ?
Cheap I would say...
So easy to say "I knew it" afterward.
Whatever you think about wikileaks and Assange they did it. They took insane risks to open a little window on what's going on behind the scene. I'm glad they did. I hope they'll continue and still be safe (but for Assange i'm a bit worried, rednecks look ready to show us how democracy works, waterboard him and hang him asap).
The US gvt doesn't seem so happy about this new leak, so maybe there is more than already old and useless information inside.
Journalists (even those of the great El Reg) should try to dig more, to harvest informations from this, do their job instead of making not so funny jokes about all this. Isn't it a bit weird that whistleblower are going through organisations like Wikileaks instead of going directly to the newsmedia? It should make journalists ask question about their job.
Loved this & look forward to lots more. One of the best reads ever from The Register, not for its technical savvy rather its comical value. Hilarious & possibly an insight into real people's views about the jerks they have to deal with & the American rednecked jerks who vacuously impart their scrotal deductions about people they deal with.
Hilarious! Bring it on...
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