Windows Phone 7 is shite. No Copy/Paste, No Multitasking, No Flash...
Like a bad iPhone from 2007.
Figures from comparison service Mobiles Please show Windows Phone 7 being outsold by Android more than 15 times over and by Symbian three times. The figures cover the last two weeks, and show Android accounting for almost 30 per cent of sales. The next-most-popular platform, BlackBerry, accounts for 20 per cent. iOS and …
I think the Android sales figures being 3 to 1 over Symbian at that site, despite the real sales figures being almost the reverse shows that this is certainly no decent indicator of the real sales figures in any way. Pretty much all it tells us is at that site the Android buyers are looking for more "freebies" that buyers of other phones.
Probably their traffic is pretty low ( I hadn't heard of them) so they using any means to drum up publicity and get a story into the tech press. They didn't have a decent Apple bashing story so Windows Mobile being a failure is a good low risk strategy. Good job you didn't fall for that one El Reg.
If Iphone has 25% of the market that makes Windows Phone around 8% of the market 1/3 of iphone sales. That's not too bad for a brand new OS. This website only sells chepo phones so am not surprise the stats don't reflect the real picture if we are to take them for real anyway. No point making further explanations on this artcile. Windows Phone is a great OS, never freezes or runs out of battery like Android and expect word of mouth to be the bigger advert.
I've got a HTC Trophy, I'm pretty impressed, sure it's not perfect but far better than the nokia 5800 it replaced. My main bug-bears are:
No copy and paste (coming in the first update)
No custom ring-tones
No RDP client, yet.
I would say that:
It has superb exchange integration
It has a very slick interface
It has just enought multi-tasking to not annoy me.
It's a bit sad that Microsoft has failed yet again in mobile.
What will happen next? What will people do who have bought Windows Phone 7 handsets and the platform goes belly up? Will Microsoft continue to support them or provide updates to fix all those missing features?
Windows Phone 7 never really stood a chance, so I guess we expected this to happen.
However it's very large and I expect most people want something a little bit smaller. A lot of people wouldn't even be buying a top of the line phone, and Android has a lot of cheaper models. Aside from all that, a lot of people realise that Windows Phone 7 needs a point release or two at least to come up to snuff. So I expect Windows Phone 7 will be a stronger competitor in time, but it needs to mature a bit.
...MS from skewing the market with their monopoly profits. A two for one deal on a £200-£300 phone!
The Xbox was a poor quality product which should have been allowed to die under normal market rules - but MS were able to subsidise it by about (currently) $6 billion. My neighbour is one of the thousands with a RROD'd Xbox under the telly which MS refuse to fix/change/refund. And any company which lost $5 billion on an operating system should not be allowed to continue wasting such vast resources.
If Billy boy wants to help the world even more then MS should be broken up into bits as Clinton tried to do before the non-president Bush W did what he was told by Big Business which was running his presidency. That way the MS companies would have to - like - y'know - actually - umm - compete on price/quality (shock horror!). That way we get efficiency in the market.
As it is - billions will now be wasted on trying to push this not very good phone on to a reluctant market just to try to satisfy someone's ego. The problem with this phone seems to be it's a crap iPhone clone and to make thing's worse it's not even a good business phone - MS boys/gals will be switching to Blackberry's.
I'm personally pleased that Bill and Mel are doing their bit as best they can for chari-dee (although giving African's access to water might be a better use of the money than Aids research).
But I actually feel kinda sorry for Bill. I know he doesn't have to look at the price column on a pizza menu - but he's supposed to be an uber geek - and the list of fail trailing behind him gets more embarrasing all the time.
and I do not work for Microsoft.
HOWEVER: Penny Arcade seem convinced that Kinect will fly and they know their games. The 360 has (I think) greater market penetration than any of its competitors and MS always replaced the duff ones promptly and for free.
And the three people I know who own a Windows Phone 7 device say it's awesome.
It's entirely possible that people downvote you not so much because they're astroturfing but because your blind hate makes your comments seem as if they were written by an utter tool.
In another year, we'll know if you were right. Until then, shut up.
...that when your xbox goes wrong the warranty does not start again - so when your third or fourth fails you're on your own. I don't have one but that is what I've been told.
There's no hatred - if you read what I wrote carefully you'd see that I praise Billy G for his charity work - my point was about MS using monopoly based profits to prop up poor quality products. I bet HTC can't offer two for one on *their* handsets.
I've put the date in my calendar. It will be interesting to see if Win7 has zuned or if MS is still pouring vast amounts of money into propping it up like the xbox.
Or indeed - if the initial rewiews are wrong and it's a huge success under its own steam and has overtaken Android and the iPhone.
My point still stands - products should stand or fall on their own merits. That is how competition is supposed to work to benefit us all.
I think the main problem Microsoft have now (bar completely missing the boat on this one and turning up at least a year late) is that, while Apple have marketed themselves into being the coolest kid on the block, Microsoft have successfully managed to market themselves as the socially awkward spotty nerd with no friends. All others sit comfortably in between, with perhaps Google encroaching on Apple.
I think the best Microsoft can do now is firstly; fire their entire marketing department responsible for some of the most dire and cringe worthy advertising ever seen ever. Then to recover from that, create another brand with no mention of the words ‘Microsoft’ or ‘Windows’ in it or linked to it in any whatsoever.
as thinking up some nonsense word like Kin or Bing or Bloop or Pow or something like that?
How 'bout Kerzam? K names are all the range for little Millennium babies. Oh, wait we're shooting for only 3-4 letters so the ADHD crowd can remember it even when stoned.
I'm off to watch the Batman show for inspiration.
Well, actually, yes, it might be.
Bing is actually quite good. Not far behind Google and in many ways brings back more useful results.
And for sure, if they rebranded Windows 7 as something entirely different they might have more success. Problem is they are always running after enterprise customers and therefore insist on calling everything Windows. Not that Blackberry had issues with that.
Are you KIDDING ME!!!??!?
Hell, searching for things on Microsoft's own website is better through Google!
As far as the 7 phone... it's too late. This is their second attempt at entering the phone market (anyone remember the Kin?), and although it is slightly better than the first, they're not going to get the market penetration they need for it to become sustainable. Simian has the plain phone, Blackberry has the businesses, Apple and Android have the cool stuff... Microsoft has everybody else and the fanboys...
MS have aimed their ad campaigns at those people who don't like using their phones. Which is an odd choice of market for smartphone phones, it's more a low-end Nokia market. I think most people who have smartphones like using their phones, it keeps them in touch with their social network and they are more than happy to hear that a new message has arrived. I can't understand the MS marketing strategy aiming at the anti-social or technophobic market.
I don't particularly like the look of Phone 7 and wouldn't even consider one as an option for my next phone, but isn't it a bit early to be writing it off.
Wait until the middle of next year, if its still being trounced by the opposition then we can all laugh and point fingers with confidence.
If it;s anything like the HTC HD2 (WinMo 6.5) it took about a year for really reliable Android distros and kernels to get pushed out, mine is running Froyo (MattC) with a different kernel for stability. Runs lovely, the hardware is superb, I couldn't in clear conscience recommend such a path though, even if you do get 2 phones.. for half the money you can have a nice San Fran, native-android phone with no abominable 2 year contract.
That said.. if there were an immediately available NAND version of Android for the HD7.. I'd be tempted too.
HD2 still looks and feels better than all other phones I;ve tried, iPhone 4 included (hate the large non-screen areas at top and bottom)
Bill Gates was right. Just bundled it with the OS unless Apple, Google and Blackberry leave the market.
It worked with Netscape.
By the way, when Microsoft first started illegally bundling IE I suggested that they just bundle a cell phone with the OS. It is the same thing as a browser. Just another product Microsoft wants to force sell to everyone.
There is no difference between a cell phone and a browser. Bundling either one is illegal. Although I will admit it is hard to commingle the code bwtween a cell phone and an OS on a personal computer. Okay, so Microsoft can not illegally commingle the code. Scotch tape works too.
Then we can listen to Microsoft employees posing as consumers saying how much they like their MS phone.
If MS is pitching their WP7 as an XBox accessory to be the "must have" toy for hardcore Xbox gamers then they will have two big marketing problems:
1) MS are already releasing the the Kinect (or whatever it is called). That's the "must have" Christmas prezzy/budget consumer for the XBoxer. Most people will have to choose one or the other and the Kinect is a more compelling purchase.
2) Win phones have traditionally been business phones sold to corporates because they are "serious" business phones competing against Blackberry etc. MS have relaunched WP7 as a "user" phone for facebooking etc pitched against iphone and as an XBoxer's phone. That slaughters the "serious business" label and corporates will not be buying their people XBox accessories and Facebook phones with all the security risks and frivolity that those imply.
Kinect is not the "must have" Christmas prezzy. It's a glitchy mess of a gimmick. I wouldn't give it to my worst enemy.
Anyone else notice how Microsoft seem to own the media these days? They can release something as broken as Kinect and the press rave about it, but when Sony release video game perfection in the form of GT5, Microsoft can also manipulate the press into writing it down...
I suppose that is what happens when you have a marketing purse as big as Microsoft's....
Christmas is coming, Microsoft has the chance to make some real progress here if they just drop those stupid annoying adverts and make a decent one.
Android on the other hand will boom as their phones come in all shapes, sizes and costs.
Noone wants the same phone as everyone else.
>> Noone wants the same phone as everyone else...
> ...unless it's an iPhone.
Clearly not anymore.
Although it helps to buy into the groupthink if you are an Apple fan since you know that Jobs won't ever accomodate any more interesting options. It would spoil that whole "garden of pure ideology" thing he has going.
.........it is very clear from the downvote pattern that someone is most definitely pursuing an agenda! Other than that I can only agree with El Reg and some of those who have posted on this thread. It is way too early to make any worthwhile predictions concerning the fate of WP7. What we do know is that it has been launched on some good pieces of kit and will get a great deal of what folks have said is missing from the release version of the OS when "SP1" comes down the pipe in Q1 next year. Then, and only then (when we have some reliable actual _sales-figures_ as well) will we begin to get a reliable indication regarding the future for WP7. At the moment the discussion appears to be largely based on hot air and the desire of some people that WP7 should fail, _regardless_ of any merits the os might or might not have - that at least is very obvious from threads like this. Oh, and before certain people start to howl and downvote, I am no MS fanboi. In addition to Windows we have both Ubuntu and Android (depending on what kit is involved) at home - horses for courses is our motto when it comes to the old homestead's IT requirements. Furthermore, when I upgrade my personal "coms" next year I will first and foremost be evaluating what Nokia can offer with Meego before I look further down the list. I find quite frankly the high-pitched whine of axe-grinding in this type of thread _very_ tedious.
to Microsoft. I have to ask why? They have proven to be untrustworthy, convicted even, but have enough economic clout to buy most of the outcomes they want. And people praising Bill G should remember he was the one, main one, to develop MSs corporate culture, very early on.I ask are you that young or is your memory really short? MS has continually produced software that was sub-standard and non-standard and have had some very short product lives or removed good functionality from products for no reason that is consumer friendly. So, again, why give MS the benefit of the doubt?
The funny thing about breaking MS up is that it could very well have caused the three likely units to have become stronger and more responsive.
An ever growing segment of the population neither needs or cares about MS and that trend will continue.
Who is talking about about being "nice" to MS? All I was talking about was trying a little bit of analysis and logic instead of the howling we so often read. What has an attempt to estimate _realistically_ what WP7's current situation is got to do with the MS' past monopolistic practices? Some of you people are utterly incapable of discussing anything concerning that company without beginning to churn out a series of slogans based on your attitude to the company. What the hell has that got to do with whether or not WP7 is going to work in the marketplace or not? Do us all a favour and grow up.
Just because your original post and the reply above were completely reasonable and logical, don't expect everyone to take them so. Discussing MS with many people is like discussing Satan with a devout Christian. It is all black & white and their mind is made up way before the discussion begins.
After 25+ years in technology I find it a good indicator of someone's experience and over all knowledge of the field: most of the folks who have been around for a while have a much more practical view of ALL technologies. And those few old-timers that are still fanatical about the whole thing? Well, there are crazies in every profession. :-)
I do still hold to the anti-MS sentiment. Maybe you don't think MS has done enough to earn the eternal disrespect that many feel. I believe that at some point whether its corporations or people, there must be accountability for the actions they have taken. MS, most large corporations I would guess, have absolutely no moral center or guidance. The execs don't care about the quality of the product, the people who make it, where it's made, or who buys it. They only care about the money being brought in by the product.
MS is such a strong monopoly position that it can produce what it has and not just survive but make good earnings. As you know, there many reasons for that, but as you tell I don't think MS deserve any credit for anything and I don't know what that corp could do to change that. Remember that even when they appear to be doing a good thing the EEE is always a real fear.
MS gets no love from and again I don't think they deserve the benefit of the doubt.
I fear that we are definitely _not_ talking about the same thing at all. I was discussing as objectively as I could what the likely prospects were (on the basis of what we currently know from the market) for WP7. I pointed out that we in fact (IMO) have very limited reliable information and it is currently very difficult to make any reliable estimates. I repeat my question from my previous posting - what the devil does that have to do with MS' corporate culture? We are talking (well _I_ was even if _you_ clearly are not) about ANALYSIS of the current market performance of WP7. What on earth do you mean in _that_ context by saying "I don't think they deserve the benefit of the doubt."? I assume that you do not mean by that you reserve the right to make statements about an os' sales figures that you _know_ (or suspect) are cobblers simply because you do not like the company concerned? With regard to some of your other points in your posting I do not actually disagree with you, although I think it is blindly bloody obvious that (as you note yourself) they apply to many more large companies than merely MS. The main problem in fact with your posting(s) is that, given that the topic was the prospects for WP7 in the market, they are largely as far off topic as it is possible to get. What you may or may not feel about MS has _bugger all_ to do with how WP7 is going to fare commercially.
Does that automagically mean that everything they make or write must by definition be bad?
Try a thought experiment - Assume that the stars are right, the moon is in the 8th house and your lottery tickets have come up. And on the same day, Microsoft release a phone OS which is clearly and by any standards a significant improvement on anything else available.
Under those circumstances, do you then automatically hate it and want it to fail?
If so, why? Specifically, why would you want users to contend with some less intuitive/secure/useful when it's available? Why would you want to reduce the overall quality of available systems?
I realize we're pretty deep into philosophy here but I want to know.
Yep, the Inq certainly is, and it's also desperate for Symbian to fail too despite it outselling Android devices on a daily basis (world wide).
I've never heard of this site, and don't consider it's numbers to be at all credible - this whole article just comes across as free advertising.
As for the two-for-one deal on HTC HD7, it's Black Friday in the US - this is pretty standard practice over this sales period, nothing unusual here and certainly should not be taken as any indication of weak WP7 sales. Everyone is cutting prices and offering BOGOFs on all sorts of merchandise during this massive sales window.
The "analysis" in this article is just comedy gold.
where Microsoft's hold on the media is not so strong, we can actually differentiate between a good product and a bad product covered in lots of marketing.
In Europe we KNOW, Xbox, Kinect WinPhone7 and other Microsoft hardware is utter junk. They need to stick to what they are good at.
I suggest switching off the TV once in a while and using your brain.
Rogers - Samsung Focus
But it's not promoted at all, you have to search to find a win7 phone. It's all Android, Blackberry, Apple and even the N8 that show up when you go to the smart phone page.
Bell - LG Optimus
They have it on the smart phone page so a bit better then Rogers, but they have a sort by OS option, Win7 is not one of the options (but Palm is).
Telus - HTC 7 Surround and LG Optimus 7
And they have a win7 info page. But they are pushing iPhone, Android (8) and Blackberry (5).
So they all have Win7 just in case you come in and ask for it, but they are not pushing it at all. There is no buzz at all, it's going to be another Palm I think.
There is also Wind but they are limited by being on AWS/1700 Mhz/BandIV for their network. They have Blackberry and one Android but no Win7.
In the US sales were reportedly at around 40,000 over a weekend or something like that. In the European market - supposedly they were around 200,000+ which isnt too shabby.
It is very early to write WP7 off and the advertising push has been massive. I have an Omnia 7 and it is a quality piece of kit - and the best thing about WP7 - as a phone it is excellent. Compared to my HD2 which was laggy and unreliable WP7 is a breath of fresh air.
Flash is coming, so is multitasking & copy/paste. Xbox Live integration is solid and the games are excellent on the phone if a little pricey.
It is an excellent OS - albeit it is still version 1.0 - give it time people!
"In the US sales were reportedly at around 40,000 over a weekend or something like that. In the European market - supposedly they were around 200,000+ which isnt too shabby."
Indeed, the contrast is in fact instructive. In the American market iPhone is unquestionably the dominant force - that is obvious. In the European market this is much less the case and it may very well be that WP7 will have a _relatively_ easier launch period in Europe than it is having in the US. I have my self talked to a number of friends and acquaintances within the retail trade in Europe and they are saying that whilst WP7 is in no way setting the world on fire the interest and sales they are experiencing in no way supports the "WP7 as disaster" story that so many are trying to sell us. I honestly do not _begin_ to be able to predict/guess what this os is going to end up doing in the market place - I just wish certain people were willing to discuss the issues instead of beginning to howl and scream the moment MS' name is mentioned.
Why would an owner plead to people to 'give it time'?
Surely you buy a phone to use from the day you unwrap it, and not just hope that the version 1.0 bugs will be ironed out one day. When you brought the phone, which I presume was the same price or more than a well proven Android or iPhone model, then you presumably brought it for a reason; and having less apps and less features doesn't seem to swing it.
The odd thing about reading about the features of Win7, there is almost nothing there. The hardware is of course just OEM commodity stuff, the core OS offers less than the competition or even in some cases less than Win 6.5 (i.e. full multi-tasking), so what is left is a new UI layer (which could come to Android via something like the HTC Sense UI) and a few MS apps like Zune/Xbox music/games. In other words, is there anything MS couldn't just have sold built on top of Android if they could actually have swallowed developing for an OS they didn't control?
f not, then Win7 could well be replaced with a Chinese clone UI built on Android, leaving it with nothing other than being more expensive than the competition.
Honestly, what carrier DOESN'T do free phones anymore? Even when BlackBerry's were the in thing, Verizon would do a buy one get one free. Same with the Android phones (hell they had that on Samsung Fascinate when it was JUST released.. purchase that and you get any one phone in their line up free). I don't see the big point in a buy a phone get a second for free deal. That honestly means nothing
"If there were actual sales figures reported for WP7 and the others. Surely they exist?"
One way of looking at this is to say that if the sales figures were good MS would be crowing from the rooftops about how quickly they were moving WP7 devices, but the deafening silence since launch tells the real story.
"How can something called windows phone "7" be excused as a 1st gen device?"
It's the same logic that can be applied towards Windows NT 3.1, Word for Mac 5, and so on; Microsoft learned a long time ago to not release version 1.0 products, they just play with the numbering so they don't have any.
Windows Phone 7 *is* a version 1.0 product; instead of modernizing Windows Mobile 6, they essentially gutted it entirely and started over, both with the kernel and the interface. I don't know if WinMo *could* have been reasonably modernized, but the fact of the matter is they didn't.
"Windows Phone 7 *is* a version 1.0 product; instead of modernizing Windows Mobile 6, they essentially gutted it entirely and started over, both with the kernel and the interface. I don't know if WinMo *could* have been reasonably modernized, but the fact of the matter is they didn't."
I would guess myself that they probably tried to learn from Nokia's mistake in trying to overhaul an os not really designed as a smartmob os (in the sense that we would now recognise such an os) at the outset. The hardware that is available now and the expectations of the customer (in relation to, for example, touch screen performance or os "navigation" etc) probably convinced MS that the back to the drawing board approach was the way forward.
I get the impression that MS's staff have been pressured to come along & downgrade each negative Win Phone 7 comment bcoz usually MS products are accepted as lower rated basically bcoz they're crap. So the astro-turfing has been a co-ordinated defence by MS & Stevie's staff attempting to give a different impression to maintain employment as MS begins to go broke. They could of course get some new lawyers & sue everyone who buys a non-MS phone. I'm sure they could find some excuse.
Microsoft will do anything to twist the figures. Their crap is crap & a long way behind the other phones, so much so they can't even sell it against Nokia who are on their last legs. Before someone discards the last sentence, consider that MS have had software on phones for many years & WIN Phone 7 was supposed to be the new brilliant update. Compared to iPhone, MS's OS is poor at best or equivalent to an old version but compared to Android MS hasn't a hope.
I'm sure I read on the Reg (may have been elsewhere) a review that said pretty much that WinPho7 is a re-skin of the old WinMo and if you peel away some of the fancy paint you can see the old WinMo components underneath.
I myself seriously doubt that MS didn't re-use the majority of their code from the 6.x OS. There is no way in hell that WP7 is a from-the-ground-up rewrite.
WinPho7 is iIMHO just the next iteration of the old WinMo platform with a helluva lot of stuff removed (including ability to upgrade from older versions) and an allegedly pretty re-skin.
It doesn't matter how much code is old or new, if this is no. 7 they have at least 6 previous systems to use as 'prototypes' not to mention everyone elses's products as a working model.
There should be nothing wrong with this one, there is a huge history of what to do & what not to do.
I think its somewhat obvious what the issues are with this phone. The marketing and target audience seems to contradict itself.
Its features are social networking and targeting the younger generation. Slap some expensive hardware with no "big name" software into the mix and you get an unsellable product. They've basically stripped out all of the business and developer/power user features so they've lost their legacy crowd.
Also their in and out quick motto with their commercials gets a few laughs but is misguided to what the target demographic does with the phone and what needed improving. The in/out quick crowd would be buying the 0$ phone.
With all the negativity surrounding the OS, I have to say I think its an interesting platform, however definitely is not mature. Why anyone would spend top dollar for a phone that can run software that doesn’t exist yet really fast is beyond me. So it will take a lot of development $$$ to get this to a point where it can compete in a crowded market. If they can leverage the gaming market better then apple has I think they would get a really big win; but again, this contradicts their marketing....
It was definitly time for a rewrite. Any OS that is still requiring unmanaged calls to make a deliverable product is in need of some love (BB OS?). I'm sure things like multiprocessing will eventually show up because its likely they used their old kernel from WM6 however it has to work its way into the phones OS framework and SDK. Having said all that, this is likely the most time efficient OS to develop on now; so they need to develop their gaming market quickly.
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