Canada prostitution laws pulverised: politicians apoplectic

A Canadian Court has overturned a series of laws regulating sex work, furthering the debate as to whether to decriminalise or clamp down on prostitution. The decision, handed down by the High Court in Ontario, effectively abolished laws banning street soliciting (communicating for the purposes of prostitution), working …

[Slaytanic]

Heh heh, spanking...

I like that quote, I'm going to spank some ass, Legally!"

Kinda got me excited, thinking of a sexy woman spanking my ass.

Then I saw this...

http://www.canada.com/news/story.html?id=2071542

Now I don't feel so excited anymore...

[Was Steve]

The title is required, and must contain letters and/or digits.

You shallow, shallow person you...

[Richard 81]

title

"focussing the full weight of the law on the most abhorrent practices, such as trafficking or child abuse."

Which according to the twisted minds of our former government, represents the majority of the sex industry. Everyone remember those trafficking figures they magically pulled out of their arses?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes but...

..who shoved it up there, and were they paid to do so? I think we should be told.

[The Indomitable Gall]

Out of where...?

Given the record of public figures, I have to ask who put them there, and whether they were paid for this service or not....

[Wommit]

Never get rid of it

It's called the oldest profession for a reason. No one yet has figured out a way to stop prostitution. Women get stoned to death for prostitution and it still continues. So I doubt that a fine is going to make much difference.

If the law criminalises people for selling sex, then only criminals are going to profit. The prostitutes themselves, men and women, will continue to be assaulted and killed, their health will suffer and those with real problems won't be offered the treatment that they need.

Why is it that as soon as a person gets elected as a member of government, their brains fall out their arse?

[Red Bren]

Second oldest profession, surely?

Otherwise how would the first prostitute's first customer have paid?

[Number6]

No Longer There

Doesn't that depend on whether it means "and still going?" If the first customer was a dinosaur-herder then the profession no longer exists.

However, the profession of "person-who-tells-others-what-to-do" has probably been around longer, albeit with slightly different names.

[Craig Chambers]

Creationist alert!

Dinosaur-herder?? 6000 year old earth perchance?

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously,

. . is there even a discussion to be had any more?

I'm not sure of the reliability of the poll but I suspect that even a well-designed, statistically balanced, etc. etc. survey would pretty much find a majority have come around to this view now.

[Rogerborg]

We should respect sex workers and celebrate their empowerment

As long as they're touting on YOUR street corner.

(Liberal chatterati attitude to slags, synopsised for your pleasure)

[Red Bren]

The opposite is true

Allow licensed brothels in non-residential areas and there will be no need for prostitutes to tout on anybody's street corner.

The rest of your post is just nasty.

[Anonymous Coward]

Bet your the same person

Who wants power stations, new housing, phone masts and other things that are argued against with this, somewhere else. Were not talking about street walkers here. Thats like complaining about all pubs because of Friday night in a city center.

[Anonymous Coward]

apoplectic?

Nice headline, but I don't really see any Canadians getting too worked about this. Sure, our Federal Minister has decided to appeal, but red-faced spluttering politicians are in short supply--on this issue anyway.

[Destroy All Monsters]

Gov in arrogant fascist parrot mode, as usual.

"Federal Justice Minister Rob Nicholson claimed that it is for government to decide how best to protect prostitutes and local communities"

"I and myself in my infinite benevolent knowledge shall tell you how to lead your life and death."

[RW]

The amusing side of this affair

When the Canadian constitution was repatriated from Britain about 40 years ago, the pols of the day inserted all sorts of high flown language into it.

These days, the honorable members of the bench are taking those words at face value, to the surprise and dismay of the current generation of Canuck pols. Particularly upset are the retards of the federal Conservative party, who are not much more than semi-fascist tea baggers. (As if any tea bagger were anything other than a fascist)

The same kind of judicial reasoning has led to a loosening of the laws governing marijuana, so soon Canada will be known as the country of a happy, stoned, sexually satisfied population.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re : RW

"so soon Canada will be known as the country of a happy, stoned, sexually satisfied population."

And that is a bad thing?

[Kevin 9]

I agree

That definitely sounds like a good thing to me.

[Trevor_Pott]

"Happy, stoned, sexually satisfied population."

Amen.

Ooooo...pizza's here! Niiiiiiiiice.

[Robert Moore]

Business licence

Now they will just bust the girls for not having a business license.

As a Canadian, I would suggest if it is legal, then it can be taxed. So lets get these girls working, and start saving me some money.

[Anonymous Coward]

Pah, business license is the least of their worries.

I'd suggest it probably is already taxed and it's quite amazing how liberal the tax authorities are when it comes to the method in which the payments are earned.

Betcha all the 'accessories' are deductible too.

[Glesga Snapper]

Surely...

being a "Progressive Conservative" is an oxymoron?

[Nightkiller]

Not if

you mean Conservative as preserving the foundations of what society has acheived and using that as a foundation to build for the future. This is different from Communist philosophy which prefers to build a new foundation by killing everyone who disagrees with this policy (Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot anyone?) or Socialist Philosophy which assumes that the only people fit to think are those in Government bureacracies.

[ian 22]

Flirting with Godwin aren't you?

Still fighting the cold war after all these years? The communists are no threat and Conservatives busy hopping into bed with the Chicoms is proof.

Brainless sock puppets keeping fear alive.

[Anonymous Coward]

progressive conservatives

Following the merger of the reform and progressive conserative parties, and upon recognition of what the combined Conservative Reform Alliance Party would mean, they dropped the progressive part (what a surprise) and the Reform/Alliance tobe just the Conservative Party of Canada. (but they are still CRAP.

(Thumbs down to the nasty party of canada)

[John Ridley]

"It's for the government to decide..."

"It's for the government to decide how best to protect prostitutes..."

So I suppose the government feels that way about all citizens; it knows better than they do what's good for them?

[Hermes Conran]

UK Police Pimps?

Evening all, b*tch betta have ma money!

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

mixed morals

The same court just deported a guy to the states to face 20years for selling pot in Vancouver.

The Canadian's wouldn't prosecute him on the same harm/public good basis - but the US claimed that some of his customers were Merkins and so they handed him over without an argument.

[Anonymous Coward]

Not quite...

The court that made this ruling is the Ontario Superior Court. Marc Emery was living in Vancouver, and extradited on a Federal order.

Toronto is about 3,000 miles from Vancouver, and extradition is a Federal, not a Provincial matter: not the same court.

[unitron]

By that precedent...

Iran could send undercover agents to Cleveland to buy pork chops and then demand the extradtion of the butcher to Tehran.

[Bryce Prewitt]

Well, that about sums it up, doesn't it?

"Federal Justice Minister Rob Nicholson claimed that it is for government to decide how best to" DO ANYTHING EVER.

How DARE these courts decide whether or not the laws we write are constitutional or not! That's NOT how it's supposed to go - YOU GUYS WORK FOR US! You're just supposed to decide how much copyright felons have to pay to big business.

Why we, THE GOVERNMENT, could get SO MUCH DONE if it weren't for these pesky courts always interfering in our constitutional mandate to MAKE EVERYTHING EVER ILLEGAL.

Twats.

[Anonymous Coward]

prosecuting sex workers

They've taken all my money, guv. I'm flat on my back. No, really....

[JaitcH]

Unlike some countries, Canada has a written Constitution that works

Even though Canada only got it's Constitution in 1962, it has very few opt outs that might make politicians happy.

The hardest hitting part of The Constitution is the incorporated Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

[Anonymous Coward]

title clamps

Would you really trust our lot of neo-puritanicals to put together a well written constitution without serious flaws, generalised and over-arching terms and a general no to any sort of freedom if the end product is that they can't interfere with your daily life?

Crafting a written constitution only works when you have people not trying to push their own agendas and actually have the freedom and enlightened ideals of society at heart.

Never mind the fact that we'd prolly never even get a referendum to vote on its acceptance either *cough*Lisbon Treaty/EU constitution*cough*

Sometimes it's better to have a fluid unwritten constitution than a total fuckup of a written one to work with/against.

[famousringo]

Legalize, regulate, tax

Do it. Better protect prostitutes and their clients, save on enforcement costs, prosecute violent crimes which actually have a victim, undermine the gangsters who organize black markets, and increase tax revenues. Then do the same for marijuana.

The morally righteous are welcome to continue to abstain from these goods and services and judge those who partake. Everybody wins, except the gangsters.

[Graham Marsden]

Bravo Canada!

It is high time that every country recognised that "Women's Rights" *INCLUDES* the right of a woman to decide *for herself* what she does with her body and to enjoy the same protections from violence and crime that everyone else does!

[Anonymous Coward]

Wrong.

The rights and wrongs of prostitution aside the courts reasoning is horribly flawed and could be used to overturn any criminal law. Assuming it's accurately reported the judge should be investigated for incompetence.

[Trevor_Pott]

@Graham Marsden

Hear, hear and damned right! I can't support this statement enough.

[Anonymous Coward]

If I rob a bank...

If I rob a bank then the police might come and arrest me which infrnges on my right to freedom! Also, I have to recruit my accomplices from dangerous places- which puts me in danger!

So when are the laws against robbery being repealed?

If the whores don't like the danger inherent in their illegal 'job' then they should quit.

The judge in this case must have been enjoying their services at the time he gave his judgement.

[MonkeyBot]

If you rob a bank...

You have infringed somebody else's right to enjoy their property and your right to enjoy freedom is removed as a punishment. In the case of prostitution, a person's right to exchange their labour for money is being infringed by the government without the prior justification of the prostitute/customer having infringed another party's rights.

If you don't like the ridicule inherent in making shitty analogies, then you should stop making shitty analogies.

[Tequila Joe]

Bank doesn't choose to be robbed

It's usually not a mutually satisfactory agreement between robber and bank though, is it?

And if there can be a mutually satisfactory agreement between sex-worker and client why should there be laws to create/increase danger for either or both, when most would accept that our laws should be created primarily to reduce intentional danger and harm rather than pander to the twisted views of those posturing as morally superior?

[OziWan]

IF I ROB A BANK...

I have rarely seen so many logical fallacies in one post since the glory days of usenet. Well done!

Should I say something about Nazi Germany now?

[Anonymous Coward]

titlemaphone

I've never understood why the act of charging for something you can give away for free is illegal?

[Anonymous Coward]

Now don't forget children...

Nanny ALWAYS knows best.

[The Grump]

No, you're wrong...

Edward Kenworthy posted: The rights and wrongs of prostitution aside the courts reasoning is horribly flawed and could be used to overturn any criminal law. Assuming it's accurately reported the judge should be investigated for incompetence.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

A woman's body is NOT the property of the government, or the queen of England, or the Pope, or God (unless you can prove it's existence), or Allah, or Buddah, or the Tea Party, or the Progressive Party, or Rush Limbaugh, or any judge on Earth. Her body is her property. Period.

If she wants to contract out as a real sex therapist (instead of those phony therapists who just talk), she should be able to. And there would be no more "standing on street corners" - they would have offices, and openly advertise their services in the phone book and on the net - without fear. They could have whatever level of security in their offices they want - without the fear that the police could take it all away.

Is there a religeon-free country out there somewhere, that I could move to? A country where, if it doesn't harm someone else, it's legal? Mine's the coat with the travel passport in the pocket. I'm ready to go.

[Paul 129]

How about a pricipality

"Is there a religeon-free country out there somewhere, that I could move to? A country where, if it doesn't harm someone else, it's legal? Mine's the coat with the travel passport in the pocket. I'm ready to go."

Try Sealand

[Anonymous Coward]

"Surely...

being a "Progressive Conservative" is an oxymoron?"

With Harper and his lot, just a moron.

History: before the Reform and Progressive (sic) Conservatives merged, Peter MacKay won the leadership of the PC's by promising another contender he would not merge the party. Then did exactly that.

[h 6]

What's that?

"Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms"

is that like the Bill of Rights?

[Throatwobbler Mangrove]

yes

It's a little like the Bill of Rights.

Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms: http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/

[Anonymous Coward]

About bloody time.

That is all.

[P. Lee]

re: Legalize, regulate, tax

Ususally, when you give it for free it's because you want to.

Usually, when you charge for something, it it's because you wouldn't do it otherwise.

Have you ever noticed that many fictional prostitution stories are about a "happy hooker", but most news stories about prostitution involve gangs, enforced-poverty, slavery, under-age sex, abuse, drug-taking or people-trafficing? I wonder which reflects reality the most accurately? Does anyone think this would change by legalising a bit of it?

Despite a generally PC attitude that sex is ok "as long as she wants to", how many parents would want their daughters to enter this industry? It isn't just a job. If a parent pushes a child towards becoming a doctor or engineer when they really don't want to that's one thing. What if they push them towards prostitution - is that the same level of "bad"? There is still a gut realisation that this is wrong.

Banning prostitution isn't about wagging the finger at prostitutes, its about protecting those who would otherwise feel obliged to do things they don't want to do. Law enforcement needs to take this view and probably would do if they didn't financially profit from prosecutions.

Some people think that sex is so special that you shouldn't have to do it you really don't want to. Some people think that profiting from other people having sex when they don't want to, might also be wrong.

"Legalise, regulate, tax" makes each one of us a pimp.

[Red Bren]

@P. Lee

"Have you ever noticed that many fictional prostitution stories are about a "happy hooker", but most news stories about prostitution involve gangs, enforced-poverty, slavery, under-age sex, abuse, drug-taking or people-trafficing? I wonder which reflects reality the most accurately? Does anyone think this would change by legalising a bit of it?"

News, especially bad news, is a sensationalised commodity. Paedo child killer is front page news. Motorist child killer is a statistical footnote. Prostitution may be linked with the activities you mention, but is that because it is criminalised and driven underground? Put it on a legal footing and it becomes much harder for pimps and drug dealers to control and profit from it.

"Banning prostitution isn't about wagging the finger at prostitutes, its about protecting those who would otherwise feel obliged to do things they don't want to do."

I don't really want to have to work for a living, what obliges me to do it is the need to provide for my family. I don't buy into the "Happy hooker" myth, but adding the constant fear of prosecution is hardly going to help those who feel obliged to do something they don't want to.

"Some people think that sex is so special that you shouldn't have to do it you really don't want to."

Some people think sex is so special, you should hardly do it at all, and certainly not for fun.

"Some people think that profiting from other people having sex when they don't want to, might also be wrong."

Some people think the best way to prevent this is to make it legal for sex workers to ply their trade in a safe, controlled environment.

"'Legalise, regulate, tax' makes each one of us a pimp."

Cigarettes and alcohol are legal, regulated and taxed. Does this make us a nation of drug pushers?

[Decius]

Usually, when you charge for something, it it's because you wouldn't do it otherwise

Have you ever noticed that most people that dig ditches get paid for it? And most people who dig ditches make a profit for someone else?

Despite a generally PC attitude that ditch digging is ok "as long as he wants to", how many parents would want their sons to enter this industry?

Banning ditch-digging isn't about wagging the finger at ditch-diggers, it's about protecting those who would otherwise feel obligated to dig ditches.

Some people think that work is so special that you shouldn't have to do it you really don't want to. Some people think that profiting from other people working when they don't want to, might also be wrong.

So, ban manual labour, and criminalize manual labourours!

[BoldMan]

Fallacious

Because news stories about happy hookers are not news. There are many people who will happily go into this profession who have not been abused or enslaved because they see it as a way of making a decent living doing something they enjoy.

There are plenty of girls, at least in the UK, who will gladly GIVE it away so moving onto the next step of being PAID for it isn't a big one. Then again you have all these celeb chasers who bed a footballer and then run to the papers... frequently they are not even one step away from charging for it!

[Amazon Wageslave]

are you using your head to store old rags?

"Have you ever noticed that many fictional prostitution stories are about a "happy hooker", but most news stories about prostitution involve gangs, enforced-poverty, slavery, under-age sex, abuse, drug-taking or people-trafficing?"

Sounds like the status quo is doing a grand job of protecting people. Could it be that when aspects of an activity are illegal, criminals start running these activities? whodathunkit?

Fucknuts.

[Scott 1]

No, we will not judge, just mourn.

"The morally righteous are welcome to continue to abstain from these goods and services and judge those who partake."

No, we won't judge those who partake. We will just mourn how something that can thoroughly ruin a person's life and mindset (not to mention darken his/her soul) has somehow become more socially and legally acceptable. Those who would be judgmental represent a very small minority of the Christian population and are not acting in accordance with the teachings of the new testament of the Bible.

[Intractable Potsherd]

@ Scott 1

You seem to be missing the "Joke Alert" icon ... you are kidding, right?

[Anonymous Coward]

Personally

I somehow can't help but feel that prostitutes might be better off doing a different job, if they could, but then again, honestly I'm in no position to judge their lives. That really is up to them, provided they did have a choice. If they didn't, I would want to have that bit fixed.

As someone who thinks that a government should add value to society by doing what others can not or will not, I prefer it refrained from passing morality laws that almost inevitably don't improve society. In that sense this is a good thing. In the same sense the politicians that disagree clearly think they are morally superior. But are they? The general consensus at least here seems to be that politicians aren't our best and brightest minds. Besides, freedom from meddling requires would-be meddlers to instead let others be.

As it turns out, at least for some, letting be is quite hard.

[Anonymous Coward]

My knowledge of Canada was learned from a Norwegian lesbian

She said the cannabis grows fine and proud in the forests of BC.

[Brian 3]

Prostitution is already legal in canada -unless you talk about it!

"Have you ever noticed that many fictional prostitution stories are about a "happy hooker", but most news stories about prostitution involve gangs, enforced-poverty, slavery, under-age sex, abuse, drug-taking or people-trafficing? I wonder which reflects reality the most accurately? Does anyone think this would change by legalising a bit of it?"

Did anyone else notice you have apparently read "many" prostitution fanfics?

Most news stories about drugs and cannabis in canada involve mention of gangs violence etc, but the fact is if it were legal the gangs wouldn't have that profit center to work. The sellers would be entitled to the protection of the law.

Let's take a hypothetical situation. Take your profession, whatever the hell it is. Now we say it's illegal. If someone comes to shake you down, make you his bitch, what can you do about it? You can't go to the cops, because they'll just toss you in, going after the other guy would be dangerous and they don't have to hunt you down.

[David Gale]

Pimping Police

It's well-known, in some areas, that vice squad cops are open to taking a bung from girls or their pimps, just as some drugs squad officers are dealing. It's been going on for years. Yet, protected form the real truth from a politically-focused media, we hide behind our comforting self-denial of having the 'best police in the world'. I worked as a police officer thirty years ago and I can tell you that whilst 70% of the officers I worked with were decent, honest people focused on delivering a public service, the other 30% would have been behid bars if they hadn't been in uniform.