Software hacks would simply be too slow.
This month? yes,
Next month? maybe,
Next year ? hahahahaha.
Intel has confirmed Blu-ray HDCP encryption is cracked after admitting a leaked master key is the real deal. High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection (HDCP) copy protection technology is designed to protect high-definition video content as it travels across digital interfaces. The technology was developed by Digital Content …
Or even download the decrypted version that someone else has fixed up.
The hi-def encryption can cause problems with devices that do not implement the protocols correctly (or implement the encryption at all). So the law abiding citizen may not be able to play their legal blu-ray at full quality, where pirate pete can play it on anything he wants to as full resolution.
It leaves the question of why would people want to stick to the legal route, given the choice.
If they weren't so arrogant and just admitted that all digital content protection was inevitably going to be broken people probably wouldn't work so hard on doing it, it would still get done but there wouldn't be that excellent "we told you so" motivation that drives a lot of the clever people that look at it who arn't driven by the potential rewards of piracy.
Of course if they admitted that dcp/drm was inevitably going to be broken companies probably wouldn't buy into the stuff.
It's a lot like the best way to keep a computer safe, turn it off, encase it in a concrete box, and bury it under several hundred meters of earth. This is similar to the best way to make sure a movie isn't pirated - don't make the movie, it's the only way to 100% guarantte it wont be pirated.
Besides, forcing consumers off of standards and onto newer, less permissive ones makes the economy go 'round.
Or, media producers can accept the reality that there's very little they can do to stem copying altogether and just settle for a partial answer for a number of years. (Fat chance of that happening.)
I think that this will help re-enforce the message that "copy protection" doesn't work if enough people want to break it.
IMHO they should give up on trying to copy-protect everything, but work out what the market as a whole is willing to pay, and sell for that price.
If that price looks too low for the margins you want, re-think your business model. Stop paying the actors a gazillion dollars for each film, pay everyone a normal living wage the same as your customers earn, and watch copyright infrindement fall. (Oh and have simple click-to-download & buy websites, but NOT itunes) Get with Web2.0
The market has already decided what it will pay... my son lives in merkin-land and me has as part of his cable package he has netflix, which enables him to queue up the films he wants to watch, and he has access to then until he wants to remove them from his list.
And he's not limited to single films either, entire seasons wold count as 1 choice, e.g. South park season 8 would count as 1 choice.
And all for $9.99 a month, makes sky movies look fairly shit
> Waldrop said. "It relies on these licensing agreements to ensure that implementations are done appropriately, and there are legal enforcement methods available for cases where it is done inappropriately."
Haha, yeah that'll work. he also says that no one would go to the expense of manufacturing chips to defeat this. Expect HDCP stripping boxes being rushed out of Asian plants for the Christmas season!
With HDCP cracked there is no need to deal with the moving target that is the Blueray DRM system (a virtual machine based decrypter that needs constant re-cracking as I understand).
Great news for us HTPC types who want everything on a central server to watch anywhere in the house.
Speed is not the issue, buffer it and take as long as you like, thank you sir.
This isn't just about BD. HDCP is used for example as 'copy protection' on all HDMI streams. HDCP being cracked means you can record from HDMI without HDCP getting in the way and downsampling the video.
Which is all manners of awesome for HTPCs to name but one application. Think HTPCs that can record from _any_ source that has an HDMI output with no degradation of quality in either video or audio. Or a tiny little box that has an HDMI input and an ethernet/wifi output that streams whatever it gets from the HDMI input to a multicast address on your home lan. Instant multi output viewing of any video source with HDMI output.
no need to re-encrypt just to keep HDMI screens happy, they will take unencrypted video no probs. Why wouldn't they? - its quite possible that they are displaying customer-owned presentation material, for shows, concerts, launches, presentations etc.
Fundamentally, every copyright protection scheme has one huge massive secret, which if found compromises the entire system. It always gets found because it is so valuable.
Furthermore, in this case, the general encumbrance to legitimate users is such a complete buggerment that most people are happy to see it destroyed.
software not fast enough, chip not fast enough, everyone has made the comments no need to repeat, no one yet said, though, about all this encrytion and security malarky, who was looking after the fucking keys in the first place. It's no good crying intel, if you want to know where the fault lies you won't have to look very far will you now,although of course some poor muggins of a file sharer will feel the full force of the amercun entertainment business's wrath for it, not those directly responsible for it in the first place.
btw, have AMD not got a spare set of keys/technology then, or do they have to licence from intel, or now, just go to pirate bay like the rest of us, even those of you who deny doing it, deny knowing how to pirate any copyright material, and continually insist that their 20000 bluray film library is entirely legally purchased, even though they live in a council bedsit and are unemployed, and it's all on a shoplifted to order set of cheap acer terabyte usb hard drives.
Anyone with an ounce of technical knowledge will tell you that copy protection / DRM is a failed concept. To my knowledge there are no DRM / Copy protection systems that have not been broken. All it does is inconvenience legitimate users and create business for commercial pirates and "chippers" because Joe Public has to turn to them make fair use of their own media and/or devices.
Only the stuffed-shirts and bean counters believe that DRM is a workable option and, like most of that ilk, won't listen to the geeks that know different until it all goes tits-up on them.
You try buying certain games from them from this part of the world. Can't be done if the game in question is from Rockstar Games. It's the reason I still don't have GTA IV. Can't be assed to drive out to that part of town again where traffic is a major hassle just to get a legal copy of the game and pay for it by credit card. And since it applies to all R* games, I don't expect to own a copy of Duke Nukem Forever either.
Don't get me wrong. Steam is okay, it's the region coding part that fails epicly for me.
Steam is a load of bollicks, I had the misfortune to buy a game that was stream protected, it installed a 60MB runtime that was ALWAYS loaded and was constantly STEALING my internet broadband, even when I was not playing the game.
Stream is not a DRM scheme, it is a marketing tool, it kept offering me free game demos.
Note that I speak in the past tense.
I've said it before, my PC, my Broadband, I own the battlefield, so THQ and every other games producer that uses stream, you can shove your fucking games up your arse while you are using that stream shit..... Don't you just love it when the one thing stream is supposed to prevent, is the one thing it helps promote!!!! What a bunch of assholes.
"To my knowledge there are no DRM / Copy protection systems that have not been broken."
I think the Sky Digital system is still unhacked in the sense of a download-the-bitstream-and-watch-it-without-any-kind-of-smartcard. I get the feeling various ways exist but you need a *real* smart card of some kind (not necessarily yours) to get the party started.
eh? sky digital is a gazillion channels of wall to wall shite. why would anyone watch this mindless crap even if there was a way to defeat rupert's cash extraction technology? if there was a demand for bypassing sky's smartcards, someone would be providing that service. even if rupert sent out his goons to stop that.
"Demand → # ↑"
Exactly. It might not be *your* idea of ideal viewing but a *lot* of people fork out substantial green on a regular basis for Mr R's "Product."
Quite a few would like to pay out quite a lot less *if* they could do so with an assured supply.
IIRC the outfit behind this kit is based in Israel and is run/owned/pays 1 third of the group behind the RSA PK algorithm (The A off hand) and have a bunch of patents issued to them. Indications suggest its at least a 2048 bit key (the last time I looked the biggest prime number factored is equal to about 336 bits). Obvious approaches would be to run off line by streaming *all* Sky digital HD to multiple digital tape drives (2TB a tape) and brute force decoders (see the book about cracking DES for example)
I suppose you could also await (or force in some way) the decoder software to be updated over the air (if you can find the datastream) and study that. Obviously it it turns out to be the machine code to a totally bespoke proprietary processor you'd be screwed.
Note these are merely commonly suggested approaches which are obvious to anyone with a few minutes thought on the subject and of course I would *never* encourage wholesale copyright violation for gain. It is quite a good subject for a software (or hardware) design excercise.
Some have hinted at it but IMO it has not been made clear enough: HDCP does not protect Blu-Ray Disks (BD), it's link-level protocol to encrypt the raw, uncompressed (~5 gbit/s for 1080p + 8ch audio) video and audio stream, meaning about 1-2TB / movie, now, TB class disks are not exactly impossibly expensive but you need a proper RAID setup to be able to write fast enough to keep up with the stream (also some sort of HW to read the stream from the wire is required)
Anyway I'm fairly sure cracking the BD level protection continues to be the preferred way for normal users to backup/format shift their HD content. The "real pirates" get their content from unencrypted master sources anyway so nothing new there as well.
HDCP only would make sense if it was possible to make the disk/player level DRM systems so strong that going through "link hole" would be easier than cracking the DRM for those that wish to do format shifting/backup of disks they already have (again: pirated HD material is readily available in the internet in any case, and it's a sad state of affairs when the "pirates" have so much better product than the "real deal")
I think it might be back to 1930s.
Anyway 100%,
also any system where the KEY also has to live in public domain is doomed. ALL DRM is doomed to fail since inherently the players have to have keys.
Given the raw data rate this is less important /critical than encryption of the actual disk or broadcast. A GPU won't do it. But a custom chip that has MPEG4 ethernet and HDMI clear pass through is not only possible but inevitable.
The Displays all have to have a key and decrypt it. Those are all with the public.
"The chip giant is keen to reassure the entertainment industry that the situation is under control."
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This " chip giant" is hilarious!!!
An HDMI capture card that can grab 1080p is >1000quid, plus whatever Matrox are charging for a license this week - the PC and raid array to store the raw stream isn't cheap either.
All this so I can save my cable box's recordings of midsommer murder or copy a BluRay disk that was on torrent sites a month before the movie came out?
Will everyone please stop getting their thoughts in a muddle?
HDCP master key compromise does not mean BluRay is now 'wide open'. It just opens the market to unlicensed widget builders to create HDCP removing widgets, which will let me plug a BluRay player into my HDTV or old Dell 2405 monitor (neither of which are HDCP capable).
Not that I care to, because Hi-Def is OK, but not really brilliant until you get a 42"+ display. Which are all HDCP compliant anyway.
If this had been announced prior to 2005, it would have been a big deal.
Not necessary anyway, there are several commercial 'front end' chips out there that strip the protection and leave an unencrypted stream easily accessible inside a TV set, just a matter of finding an HD TV that uses them (and it's not difficult).
Paris, not to be touched without protection.
...with cameras. Now get a HI-def camera, film it from a perfectly tuned Hi-def display, and there is no single DRM scheme from here to the farthest depths of hell that will be able to block it, either past, present, or unimagined yet.
Stick the decrypting chip inside someone's cornea (or retina, whatever), and somebody else will happily plug their eyes out to get the thing decrypted. Well, not so happily, but are you getting the idea? If you can see it, so a camera; if you can hear it, so a microphone. There is no way around this inescapable fact.
If you can view it coming from a TV, at some point inside the said TV, the HD content was decrypted, and that's where you can begin to extract the protected content, there is no way to avoid it, even if it is behind each pixel in a LCD screen built for this purpose. No matter you must record the raw feed, it is TB in size, it takes Gbps of bandwidth to copy it on the fly, somebody will try it. Try it have success on it, copy it back in an unencrypted disk and release it.
Oh, the BD-disc-DRM was not broken yet? It is just a matter of time.
The whole encryption idea should be dropped, as a whole, btw.
When are people going to learn that copy prevention is impossible?
Not just very difficult, like flying to the moon or finding the prime factors of a large number; but actually demonstrably mathematically impossible, like building a perpetual motion machine or dividing by zero. And this is a limitation of the universe, as opposed to a limitation of present technology. There is simply nothing that anyone could ever invent that would make copy prevention possible.
What it comes down to is three things. The person who made the recording cannot know in advance that the person playing it back is not making a recording; the decryption key is right alongside the cyphertext; and you only have to be able to make one copy to be able to make an infinite number of copies.
Every penny that has ever been spent on copy prevention has been wasted. And as long as the media companies keep falling for snake oil and paying royalties on useless patents, it will be the likes of me and thee who have to keep picking up the tab. Meanwhile, the first person who twigs that making pirate copies is *not* zero-cost, and prices their output just below the point at which it's simply not worth the bother of trying to copy it, is going to get seriously rich. Because if you can get 10 000 people pay 10p for something that would cost them a pound to make for themselves, you've still earned as much as you would if you could get 100 people to pay £10 for it (and the other 9990 people would be ripping off copies anyway).
In my opinion, HDCP was never about copy protection. It was simply a way for a dominant group of companies to extract a license fee from anyone wishing to produce display devices.
A skilful individual may well be able to extract the keys from his television, and hence build his own HDCP capable display device, and I doubt that anyone would be too concerned. However, if he then starts mass producing and selling said display device, the keys are at risk of being revoked, yielding angry customers and a crippling lawsuit from the manufacturer of the television from which he obtained his keys. Far easier just to play nicely, pay for a legitimate set of HDCP keys, and pass the cost on to the consumer.
CSS and AACS, in my opinion serve a similar purpose. Until CSS was cracked, anyone wishing to build and sell DVD players would have had to pay for a CSS licence. Even now, I suspect that they need to pay for a licence to avoid the risk of being sued / prosecuted under the DMCA or equivalent. Likewise, anyone wishing to build and sell Bluray players needs to pay for a licence and set of keys. They could use a set of keys trivially extracted from a software player, but these keys are likely to be revoked, leaving the player useless with new releases. Again, far easier just to behave.
I would be very interested to know how the cost of developing these 'copy protection' schemes compares with the licensing revenue that the bring in. My guess would be that the latter outweighs the former by a substantial margin. It is of course the consumer that ends up paying, but that's always going to be the case.
One final point. I entirely agree that copy protection is broken by design: you cannot give someone encrypted data and a device to decrypt it, and then expect them not to be able to duplicate that device themselves. However, it will always take them a finite time to do it. Therefore, if Hollywood wishes to protect New Release, they simply need to 'refresh' the AACS keys used to encrypt it, and there will be a period where the only way to watch New Release is by buying the disc. If, as suggested elsewhere, commercial pirates are not dependent on the released disc, instead having access alternative sources, then all Hollywood have achieved is to force me to use my original disc to watch New Release for a short while, before I can extract the data and store the original.
Joe Punter is fed the idea of HD. He is even prepared to pay an extra £10 a month (mug) for HD content. He has spent the cash on expensive kit. To find out that kit 'A' will conspire with Kit 'B' to deny him viewing in true HD. The products he has bought 'thinks' for it self and then decides that he is not worthy of watching what he's paid for. It didn't like the switching of the AV amp, so it brands you a pirate and downsamples your content. Who thought that shit up? Who honestly could raise their hand and think this is a good idea? I have prayed for a box that would strip out all the crap. Looks like It will be available this xmas.
...as tomorrow (Sunday 19'th) is "International-hack-like-a-pirate day"
OK, I thought 'hack' was slang for 'growl'. I think. OK, I might be pushing the envelope but here's my source*.
Citation needed from me scurvy shipmates. Haaarr, fuc*king haaarr an'a bottle of Perrier, taaarr. - (we've got more civilised nowadays...)
*http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/Hack:mpd-growl.pl
In a HD-DVB box perhaps. So we won't be seeing council houses up and down the land filled with chipped set top boxes as a result of this... but does anyone likely to want a chipped box even pay for a subscription-broadcast service in the first place -- whether they have one or not?
But if all you want is to interface your sat box to a HTPC/MCPC, then 1080i will suffice. There's no station transmitting in 1080p yet.
Still, a BlackMagic intensity will adhere to HDCP signals and block recording copy-protected shows. You'll still need a HDCP signal stripper (which does not exist as of this time) or go around it by dropping back to analog HD by means of a descrambler (which, contrary to what the digital companies wants you to believe, isn't really bad at all).
that something that allows you to watch sound and video could not somehow be subverted so that the sound and video could be ... watched by something with a memory.
DRM just makes life difficult for everyone but doesn't actually achieve anything for anyone other than those that make a living out of selling DRM.
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