
"and he keeps his curtains closed because"
Well that's the entire population of night shift workers and those who live with them branded as terror suspects eh?
Nice going Plod
The Association of Chief Police Officers has been told not to re-broadcast an anti-terror advert it ran on TalkSPORT radio. The advert urged people to call the "Anti-Terrorist Hotline" to report suspicious behaviour such as anyone paying with cash "because he doesn't have a bank card", or keeping his curtains closed "because …
My flat overlooks a busy main street/road and has large windows so naturally we keep the blinds down most of the time as I get tired of drunk idiots from the pub next door trying to talk to us or having to sneak past my own windows when I get out the bathroom or bed in less than full attire.
As my wifes company has folded I'm also pertty permenantly overdrawn so simply draw all my cash needs out each pay day as my card inevitably gets locked quickly as our bills go out of just my wage putting me overdrawn and I need cash for petrol and food.
That makes me a terrorist apparently!
Idiots.
This post has been deleted by its author
With the police "Detections" returning I'm wondering if this is related.
Close my curtains/blinds so people walking down the high street can't see into my bedroom, and I'm a terrorist.
Leave them open and if I dare to get out of bed naked or have sex then as the public can see into my bedroom from the main road I'm guilty of multiple other offences...nice!, that will look great on plods detection sheet.
This ad ran some serious shivers down my spine. It is a near-perfect replica of some of the posters and radio announcements from the age of Joseph Vissarionovich. It stirred some "genetic memory" from the days when 90% of my extended family on my mom's side got their marching orders down that corridor in the basement that finishes with that famous wall painted in institutional green.
Banning this ad is not enough.
It should be unbanned and run repeatedly in parallel with the Stalin ones so people really get a sense of perspective on what is a democracy and what is a country run by a deluded offspring of a church official (any likelihood is probably purely coincidental).
Why symbolic? The pold in your country want to bring back witch hunts? Bring back the stocks and pillory just for them. Remember that the police can only execute their duties because the citizens of your country consent to being policed. Maybe you should take a lesson from the French and get out in the streets once and a while.
The only way that idiots like this ever learn is to prove to them that despite all their efforts, all the money, sweat and risk they have taken to make everyone terrified all the time…
…you aren’t afraid at all.
"Be a government informer. Report your family and friends. Fabulous prizes to be won!"
I was wandering through the underground the other day and did a double take at one of the tubes information posters on CCTV. It said "We are watching out for you" and just as I looked, someone walked passed and their arm managed to obscure it partially for a second, enough for it to read "We are watching you". Sent a shiver down my spine.
"Be a government informer. Report your family and friends. Fabulous prizes to be won!"
One of Red Dwarf's finest episodes.
Not nearly so funny when you still seem to be living through it.*
Mine will be the one with the DVD's to "1990". One of Edward Woodward's least know jobs. another one you felt ACPO and NuLabor felt would make a good training manual.
iN this case it's not the government, it's ACPO. Seems that our new government aren't caving in to every request from the police. Maybe they've realised Gordon's planned police state is a bad idea, or maybe it's just something they're doing to save money (I'm with the latter) either way the end result is a good thing.
It looks like the terrorists have achieved their goals after all. Turning our society in a bunch of fear mongering, suspicious, out of our minds lunatics who have willingly sacrificed their freedom, quality of life, humanity - because we are obsessed with absolute, abject fear.
So, according to this radio advert, every loner, slightly missfit, miss-adjusted, everybody who is a little bit weird, a little bit unusual, a bit non-conformist, uncommon in any way - will end up being the target and victim of our 'safety-for-all' antiterrorism effort. All we have to do is just keep our heads down and act like a flock of sheep - making sure we don't do anything different then the next guy - and the next after, and the next million. I was brought up in a communist regime - and this all starts to look pretty much the same. We were told the same things by the internal 'security' police about keeping an eye on our neighbours for the sake of the 'mother country'. My goodness, it really looks like one of those scary futuristic films. When the hell did people stop having any balls and started caring so little about their freedom and their soul?
"When the hell did people stop having any balls and started caring so little about their freedom and their soul?"
I could tell you the answer succinctly but it is pretty high on the politically incorrect scale.
Suffice to say that when you have a particular demographic group who has a natural predilection to seek out safety over all other concerns attaining political superiority within society combined with the opposite demographic who have a natural predilection to offer (the appearance) of safety to the safety seeking demographic while at the same time wanting to incapacitate or destroy all the non alpha members of their own demographic group in then you end up with a situation such as this.
The alpha members of the protecting group end up doing whatever it takes to engender fear in the protection seeking group in order to attain power over the non alpha portions (majority) of their own group.
Eventually it is their arrogance that leads to their downfall. Ultimately they will go far enough down that road that they begin to believe they have subdued the non-alphas to the point that they are no longer a credible threat and they have the enforcement structures sufficiently in place to contain whatever resistance they do manage to mount.
At this point they decide that they no longer need to actively manipulate political support from the safety seekers at which point the safety seekers who enabled the entire totalitarian mess in the first place finally get a taste of what they have wrought.
Time passes until ultimately the whole thing collapses, usually due to economic failure.
Rinse lather repeat. The human race seems incapable of learning.
That is all!
Apart from the fact that it should be tattooed on the faces of Labour politicians who will then have a lifetime of other people reading it back to them.
Will it change their fascist/PR/short-termism mentalities, probably not. Hopefully they'll be out of power for several generations now and, again hopefully, we'll have more of a common-sense approach and gradually get back some of the freedoms they were so quick to take away, and their acolytes who at the head of every 'Public' organization like ACPO will gradually be replaced.
The business that trades under the name ACPO wants to frighten the general public into asking for more police, particularly expensive senior policemen looking at terrorism. Is this suspicious behavior of a business association that wants to expand? or is it dedicated policemen working for a safer country, or is it proof of a slide into a police state where being odd or different is to be communicated to the police, I guess the STASI is a bit of a pinup for ACPO..
Write to your MP asking why so much public money is given to the private business that is ACPO.
1) Urban dope farms exist and are relatively common.
2) These can be found by police helicopters using infrared cameras, and good old-fashioned detective work.
3) As such, they represent real, hard, unglamorous, potentially dangerous work (think booby-traps) for plod. For which paper work has to be done.
Other demographics fit this profile. The one that springs to mind is illegal immigrants. Didn't they want us to grass them up a wee while ago? It wasn't popular. Another one is benefit cheats and tax dodgers. Didn't they want us to grass them up a wee while ago? That wasn't popular either. I'm sure lots of other criminals are the same.
There was a second advert that mentions a guy who's looking for a new house using Google Maps/Earth, has three lockups full of "his mother's stuff" and bought a flight with cash. Sounds a lot more like a housebreaker and/or fence to me.
So are they just using anti-terror as a way to catch people involved in standard domestic crime?
Would the police do such a thing? No, it's not like they've used anti-terror stop-and-search to catch domestic criminals or anything that bad....
The plod are using their night-vision goggles to look out for houses with unusually high heat signatures coming from the loft. Another surveilance nightmare for the rest of us.
Infra-Red Night vision can't see thru glass as it goes, otherwise I'd think the plod are recording predator-vision style porn as they fly around the city gazing into everybodys bedrooms at night.
I wouldn't put something like this past todays 'vigilant' coppers - no better than the drooling security guards who sit watching changing room video footage at department stores.
Unless the tech has changed drastically in the last few years normal "Night Vision" or "Light amplification" equipment like goggles and scopes cant see beyond the IR wavelengths that are very close to visible light. You can see "near IR" sources like IR lasers and LEDs but not longer wavelength heat signatures like in Predator.
For that kind of imaging you need to use a different rig altogether. The "Thermal Imaging" cameras are the ones that they use to find heat anomalies on buildings, like those caused by grow lights left on 24/7. Both types see in infra-red/heat but the wavelengths and hardware are very different.
I don't talk to my neighbours much, since who does nowadays - especially since I'm a single white male living alone...I try to pay with cash as much as I can because I can track my money far more easily by getting out cash and limiting my expenditure...and I have my blinds down all the time because the bunch of annoying teens who pass my house and stare in my window regularly drives me absolutely nuts.
So according to this advert I'm suspicious and should be reported...because I'm a single guy who likes to track his expenditure and doesn't like being gawped at in his own home I should have my life put under scrutiny, my reputation ruined and possibly lose my job because people would never trust me again?
I'm glad it's been banned...hopefully the w*nkers who made this advert will have their own lives scrutinsed first.
I don't talk to people much because that's the way I am. Sorry. Just not very sociable.
I keep the curtains drawn at the front upstairs to keep the rooms cool, and blinds mostly drawn downstairs because I value my privacy and/or the sun makes it hard to watch TV.
I suppose the saving grace is that I'm the exact opposite when it comes to spending. I hardly ever use cash and frequently have nothing in my wallet except plastic.
Here's what people in continental Europe used for a long time: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Vitrage1477.JPG
You cannot see anything from the outside through it (well, unless you're standing with your nose against the glass) but it doesn't block any light entering in. Apart from these, they also have normal curtains as well for the evening (as then, when the inside is brighter than the outside, the inside is perfectly visible).
I've got no idea why these never got popular in Britain - especially after learning that they are fairly popular in France.
I keep my curtains closed as much as possible
A: i dont want people to see my computer on the way home from the pub and think fuck it ill have that., Plus i hate the light behond me cant see anything on my screen
B: Kids running round naked.
C: ill let the missus explain the third reason !!!
I have curtains closed all day, and profer paying for thing in shops with cash. And to Jo Blogs on the street it dosn't seam that I have bank account.
Now I have curtains close because the sun shines all day on computer monitor and also makes it imposiable to talk with clients using a Webcam as the sun glares in to it. Programing all day log with sun shining on screen isn't that easy, so shut curtains and to lazy to open then after 6 hours.
I think in job description of Police:
1) Are thick as two planks, good your hired.
1) He is a POSSIBLE terrorist, in which case boy do I feel stupid for not noticing before I read the ADVERT.
2) Hes not and...
-He lives on his own as his mother died and never married or had a girlfriend.
-Pays by cash as he is 50 odd years old and has always paid for items in cash(hes doesnt have a pc or the need for modern fangled tech).
-He closes the curtains because he doesn't want filthy netted curtains or the scum that roam the streets peering into his house whilst he's at church.
Brings neghbourhood watch(list) to a whole new level.
I used to live up North. Lost my job but lived in a 3 bed house. Neighbors never saw me (went out early looking for a job, stayed late at the library).
Turned out later they thought I was the Provo's quartermaster, busily burying gear for their (presumed) impending Leeds campaign.
Had my Mother not turned up and been her usual self it was only a matter of time before my back door disappeared one night and I would then spend the next 28 days explaining where I'd stashed the guns, ammo and semtex.
Not having guns, ammo or semtex in the first place this would have been difficult.
Welcome to the state of fear.
Alright, alright, let's calm down for a second and remember that
a) This sort of advice has been chucked around before and society hasn't crumbled
b) The point of the story is that this sort of advice has been found to be a bit off, like, so there is no suggestion it is being adopted as a social norm - in fact there is considerable resistance to it
c) Most people remain happily oblivious to the habits of those around them and the only people likely to get paranoid and squeal on their innocent neighbours thinking it's their civic duty are the kind who would probably have effed with your ess before, because they're nosey idiots.
This campaign is not going to make us into a nation of nosey idiots. If anything it's only going to make us into a nation of Orwell-misquoting hysterics.
I'm as concerned as anyone about our rights and freedoms (and know a bit about all this having written about it) but I also have a bit more faith in things not actually being that drastically bad, and people not being mindless gullible fear-driven douchebags who keep diaries of their neighbours' every curtain-twitch. Have a little more faith in society - it's a lot bigger than politics, and is still composed mostly of perfectly decent and rational individuals. It's alright, you know. Be vigilant, keep tabs on this sort of crap, yes, but don't run out into the street (or in this instance, this thread) screaming and waving your arms around.
Actually, if you feel you would like to run out into the street screaming and waving your arms around about this, you should go with that impulse, because I would like some peace and quiet and time to contemplate how lucky I still am and will continue to be and how most of the rest of the world would probably walk over broken glass to be in my position.
K? K.
Good points Sarah, all of them, but there is still the fact that a body of very senior policemen saw fit to release this Stalinist piece of scaremongering crap. Put simply, they should have had more bloody sense in the first place. And if it turns out they knew full well what they were doing, what does that say about the mentalities of the UK's senior law enforcement people?
Just my 0.02.
Yeah, they should, but these things have a great way of correcting themselves, as we're seeing.
I'm really not suggesting there's nothing to worry about here, just that there isn't that much to be consumed with worry about. Why be consumed with worry if you don't need to be?
The real problem, as I see it anyway, is that the police even comes up with spectacularly bad ideas like this. That is, there's apparently a state of fear stuck in their minds complete with a strong compulsion to infect the rest of the population too. That's not what the police force is for, dear police force, or at least not as principally envisioned.
But you do have a point that running around flapping arms and havin' a good froth at the mouth isn't exactly productive. So, everyone, cool down, close the curtains, and write a nice friendly polite letter to your MP asking them to step up pressure to launch the long-overdue police functioning and anti-terrorist measures effectiveness reviews.
I have to say that an "individual" may be rational and sensible (except the folk who form their opinions based on the crap in the daily wail), unfortunately as a collective, "people" are pretty stupid and gullible...
So yes, there are a sensible few, like the ones piping up here in rage, but it only takes a stupid few to get something like this out of control... (case in point: this particular campaign made it through to a public broadcast!)
There are are so many parallels going back in history, it's scary... And what's more scary is that these senior nitwits who approved this campaign, should have been in the "sensible majority" - but clearly weren't, and more importantly, clearly not aware of history!
So, I say, what we need to do send the fucking idiots responsible for this cockup (and any future ones) on a GCSE course in History!
If you happened to be a photographer, you'd probably think differently. Coppers, security guards, etc. have been hassling photographers going about their job for years now, stopping, searching, arresting and detaining them, and deleting lawfully taken images, under the pretence of "anti-terrorrism legislation" (specifically, sect. 44). Even though the application of sect.44 has been declared unlawful by the European Court of Human Rights, the Met has stated that it will continue to use it.
You should have a look at http://photographernotaterrorist.org/ if you're not already familiar with it. It does not paint a pretty picture.
This advert is only the next step, extending the harrassment from a specific group of individuals (photographers) to a larger one (single males), instilling fear and hysteria into the general populace. It looks as if you're lucky enough not to be a member of either group.
Unless you're white, female, middle-aged, married with 2 kids, a car and a dog, it's only a question of time until you are targeted too.
We already live in a police state. There are more CCTV cameras than in any other civilised country on the planet, people are regularly harrassed by the police, they can be arrested without reason or access to a lawyer for exessively long periods of time, DNA samples of innocent people are collected and stored without any time limit, councils employ counter-terrorism surveillance against a mother who fibs to get her kid in a better school, to name just a few. And I haven't even mentioned international travel yet (air-based or otherwise).
The Stasi would have creamed their collective pants.
Black helicopters for obvious reasons, and AC because anything else would be silly.
is done slowly, so it doesn't notice - not all at once so it jumps out of the pot
> This sort of advice has been chucked around before and society hasn't crumbled
Usually when this sort of advice has been chucked around, the country has been at war and the population has been exhorted to look out for spies or saboteurs - with the internment of those thought most likely. The problem with this campaign is that we're not at war, it breeds fear and if not a bad thing in its own right is a step down the path of heating the pot with the frog in it. We have to push back against this sort of absurdity, otherwise the heat gets turned up.
... you would have to show that there has never been a progression from sane and sensible society to one driven by fear and constant surveillance by the ordinary people in society. You cannot do this, because it isn't true. Without going a hundred years back, Germany and the Soviet states prove you wrong. Even Britain does - compare the society we have now, with its ridiculous emphasis on suspicion of ... well, anyone really,* with the society of the 1970s. The progression is clear, and whilst we might be seeing a slight reversal, there is no evidence yet that it is more than a blip.
By all means, try to keep things in perspective, but do not get complacent.
* e.g. photographers, men in places where children are, people with Middle Eastern appearance, Muslims, people buying "too much" fertilizer/sugar ... (list not intended to be anywhere near complete).
I'm not complacent, not at all. I just think that fear of these things can become a greater problem than the thing itself.
I would never suggest there is no problem - there's evidence enough in this thread. It's notable that the posters who have experienced victimisation are more measured in tone than the ones who apparently haven't.
I wasn't making any definitive statements, so it's not a matter of being proved wrong or otherwise, I think. But yes I take your point.
(Advertisement writer on couch; therapist with notepad.)
"How long have you had these feeling that people are out to get you?"
"Since Blair sir ," Breaks down sobbing, "Tony and George were mean to me."
"Hm," makes rather cruel note,"I see, the terrorists had already won at that stage."
The ad is an insult to anyone who prefers to keep their lives PRIVATE from everyone else. Not everyone is a Me-me-me, must-become-the-next-z-lebrity kind of person. My curtains are shut often, I also prefer to pay cash, so how does this make me a terrorist?
And you guys are not helping with a misleading headline.
... you have nothing to fear. Isn't that what they say? So just leave your windows clear (leave your doors unlocked as well in case the pold want to come in), with all your valuables and bank details on view, because if you try to hide them or pay with (shock, horror) cash then you are obviously a bad person.
Now if only I could persuade some nice rich people to do that. Leadership should start at the top, yes? So why is the door to No. 10 Downing Street closed?
Does the man at the end of your street have a swarthy complexion or look a bit foreign? Does he ululate or jabber in some guttural mockery of English? Does he work in a corner shop? Does he have a hook for a hand? This may mean nothing, but together it could all add up to you having suspicions. We all have a role to play in combating terrorism. If you see anything suspicious, call the confidential, Anti-Terrorist Hotline on 0800 XXXXXX. If you suspect it, report it.
I think the ad is intended to be terrorism - social control terrorism... but alas...
Given the IRA or whatever they're calling themselves is currently blowing the fuck out of belfast, I think the anti-terror money would be better spent the way that it used to be spent... Infiltrating and disrupting an organisation which has for decades terrorised the British public - we all remember the _REAL_ bombs going off, non of this backpack of TATP crap which doesn't really do much when compared to 2-3 tonnes of SEMTEX or C4 in a white van, driven by a white man, parked in a loading zone and left only for a few minutes before BOOM!
Now we're in fear of "internation extremists" when we have extremists blowing bombs up down the road, and heaven knows what's next... UK mainland attacks again?
international extremists give people a "right" to be xenophobic - that "right" is as wrong as slavery - it's racism pure and simple, government and police endorsed racism. e.g. putting up cameras in the areas populated by asians - no, certainly no racial profiling there at all...
The man at the end of the street doesn't talk to his neighbours much, because he thinks, quite rightly, they're all cunts. He pays with cash because the banks are cunts, and he keeps his curtains closed because his hobby of wanking himself into a coma is considered public indecency if he doesn't. This may mean nothing, but together it could all add up to you realising that actually, he's probably exactly the same as the rest of us.
I keep my curtains closed because my bedroom faces a road and I don't want the local populace gawking into what basically amounts to my sanctuary when I'm playing my Xbox or trying to have a nap/watch TV etc.
I pay in cash because that makes it easier to track my expenditure.
I don't talk to people much because I'm not a very sociable person.
Holy shit I must be a terrorist?
Fucking idiot cops.
"based on trends identified by police and had been amongst evidence given in court at recent terrorism trials"
Would those be the photographers that you apprehended for acting suspicious? Or the kids you throw down stairs? Or perhaps the journo who wrote your name down and was taller than your shortest officer?
I've known coppers to do the curtain-cash-no-talky thing too you know..
I had a good laugh when I read this.. then felt like a good cry. This is the shit we've signed on to accept? I don't know whether they're trying to incite a riot, or maybe they need help in reducing the plods on the street courtesy of mob action; but this is getting ridiculous.
Only a variation of existing adverts has been kiboshed - in different formats these ads have been running for some time. They've been in print and most notably on billboards, which has led to some serious lampooning on flickr: http://www.flickr.com/groups/they_must_think_were_all_morons/
Has a smartphone - easy anonymous browsing - terrorist
Has an ancient payg phone - easy anonynmous calls - terrorist
Has children - good cover for being a terrorist
Childless - obviously a terrorist
Has a heavily encrypted wifi network - terrorist
Has no encryption on wifi network - terrorist
Goes to the mosque - terrorist
Goes to the church - good cover for being a terrorist
Pretends not to have a religion - terrorist
Basically - is not one of us, where 'us' starts off as 'white' and then narrows all the way down to 'member of ACPO' as things progress.
The following message is brought to you by TalkSPORT, the Anti-Terrorist Hotline and the Ministry for State Security. The man at the end of the street owns a camera and takes pictures of buildings and people with it. He pays with cash because he says he doesn't want a bank card. He doesn't like visitors and won't let uninvited people into his house. He keeps his curtains closed at night and has lights on until all hours. He has brown skin and a black beard. He has been seen coming out of domed buildings and associates with other brown-skinned individuals, and speaks to them in a foreign language. He doesn't go into pubs. He is polite and distant and keeps himself to himself. This may mean nothing, but together it could all add up to you developing xenophobic paranoia. We all have a role to play in combating terrorism. If you see anything suspicious, or if he nicks your parking space, call the confidential, Anti-Terrorist Hotline on 0800 XXXXXX. If you suspect it, report it. Be alert, citizen. Enemies Of The State are all around us.
Right, listen, I will reject any Orwell references in this thread from hereon in because all you're doing is diluting ideas of great power and I won't have it. Seriously. If you respect his work so much then don't parrot it at every opportunity - maybe it is relevant, but we're all aware of that, being literate and preoccupied with civil liberties and all.
If I had a quid for every Orwell reference I've moderated here (with a fiver for each instance of "It's a novel, not a manual"), I could quit.
The significant thing about this is that the ads were placed by acpo. Wind back a few months and the government were right behind the police on creating a police state, the new government don't seem to support them at all. It smacks somewhat of the good old USSR doesn't it? Report your neighbours for not being conformists.
However don't they need reasonable suspicion to start surveilance. I don't think paying cash, keeping your curtains closed or not talking to your neighbours would be accepted as reasonable suspicion by the courts.
Remember the suss law? The police have been trying to bring that back for a long time.
I remember the suss law very well.
During the late 80's and early 90's I used to play pen and paper RPG's at my friends house on the other side of town. It would not be uncommon to see me (long-haired and swarthy at the time) in the small hours of the morning carrying two document cases (much larger than briefcases). I would be stopped and searched quite regularly, and have my cases gone through.
It all verged on harrassment, but I could do nothing under the suss law.
Oh shit, I've just realised....I don't have a bank account, I keep my curtains closed due to sensitive eyes and have aspergers, so I have problems socialising. I must be a terrorist, so they were probably right to check my cases after all.
ACPO really do need castrating. Under successive NuLabour Home Secretarys they were shamelessly over-indulged to the point of incredulity - their influence on policy and law making is staggering (most of it going on behind closed doors, well away from public inquiry, of course). They receive public money and proceed to use it to undermine civil freedoms, whilst actively seeking to criminalize ever-greater numbers of the population by inventing and promoting sinister new offenses (such as 'cartoon' pr0n). Offenses that in more sober times would get laughed out of court as bordering on the insane.
Yet still we indulge these uniformed clowns, still we allow them to weasel their way into policy making, into the legislative process.
And when we see all that bad law go into effect, the prison population doubling, we shake our heads and fancy we might just build more prisons since there are clearly so many criminals around. Pfft!
These adverts, banned or not, are what you get when you fail to control the authoritarian, self-promoting tendencies of your national police force. ACPO, along with other high-echelon police service organizations in the UK, all feel they can get away with this kind of malevolent propaganda - because the last lot in government proved to them they could. Hopefully this present Coalition will prove rather less amenable to their self-interested agenda.
Time will tell.
"Don't suspect a friend, report him"
"Be Safe: Be Suspicious"
"Trust in haste, Regret at leisure"
"Loose talk is noose talk"
and how about this one
"It is absolutely right and fair that those found guilty should pay for their periods of detention and the Information Retrieval Procedures used in their interrogation".
That describes my entire street. I live in an area populatedmostly by students and night shift workers. Many of the neighbours are immigrant workers whicxh means they hardly pop out and say "what ho deary, nice weather" and most pay in cash for stuff as most of the shops round our way don't take cards.
I live in a terrorist hotbed. What am I going to do? If I don't act on my unreasonable fears, the terrorists win!
oh wait.
"The following message is brought to you by TalkSPORT and the Anti-Terrorist Hotline. The man at the end of the street doesn't talk to his neighbours much, because he likes to keep himself to himself. He pays with cash because he doesn't have a bank card, and he keeps his curtains closed because his house is on a bus route. This may mean nothing, but together it could all add up to you having suspicions. We all have a role to play in combating terrorism. If you see anything suspicious, call the confidential, Anti-Terrorist Hotline on 0800 XXXXXX. If you suspect it, report it."
I hadn't realised this OMG brilliant. I have phoned about at least five of my neighbours, obviously they are terrorists, I just though they was paedo's? There are six or seven teenage hoodies in the area as well does anyody know if the ACPO could get them lifted at the same time?
Is on the Met Police web site btw. Way to go fellow commentards. Have now finished reporting neighbours and am just starting on some of the more suspicious folks in the office. Should I report the dozy cow that short changed me? Or perhaps this is going a bit far?
Just told the nice policeman about the local hoodies and they agree with me entirely. Walking round the estate with a heavy sun tan, covering your face with your nike top but wearing jeans that are so obviously hand me downs because they hang below your arse is clearly suspicious behaviour ffs.
We need to take a more French approach to dealing with those who have put themselves in charge of this country. A history of mass guillotining seems to work as a strong deterrent to this sort of behaviour, perhaps making a suitable example of those responsible for this ad would serve the same purpose over here?
The terrorists ruining this country are not the few religious nutters who want to make exploding chippatis of themselves but the evil scum bringing forth a new world order that must have Orwell spinning in his grave and the Stasi green with jealousy.
Perhaps we can start by asking the CIA to "render" the ACPO to Uzbekistan where they can be suitably "questioned" until they freely admit their conspiracy to undermine democracy in the UK?
I keep the curtains closed, can't see my PC screen otherwise.
I pay by cash, yeah, because I'm bankrupt, its easier than trying to persuade a bank to give me a card.
I don't talk to anybody, yeah, thats me too. I'm deaf, verbal communication is difficult and frustrating for me.
Anon because by that criteria, I must be a terrorist.
I'd also laugh if it hadn't happened to me.
I'm a chemistry student, went back to my flat with a couple of textbooks when my next door neighbour saw me- (first time in the three years I lived here that I've met the neighbours).
Usually pay in cash to the local shop, as it doesn't take credit cards.
And what happens- the local police take me into custody for a little chat about terrorism, and confiscate my notes as they could be used for bomb making (yes, I'm studying about explosives for my course).
Now, every few days the Police come round "just to see how it's going".
this is exactly how the Gestapo operated in Germany in the 30s - actively encouraging people to inform on neighbours who were deemed to have behaved in any way out of what was regarded as the "ordinary". This started off as meaning anyone who may be a spy but very quickly ended up meaning anyone who opposed the Nazi party and then anyone who was homosexual or a communist and then anyone who was Jewish.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIAFHjL3ZMg
Personally it scares the living hell out of me.
A fair while ago in this country we all lived under the threat of total Nuclear destruction. The government of the time published a document 'Protect and Survive'. So all the folks in the country started storing up brown paper and buckets of urine to build improvised shelters for indeed that was the advice in the official publications.
Yea right of course they did! OK now you are wondering how this is relevant.
Most people are fairly reasonable, even the police, and will eventually realise how stupid they are making themselves look. It is almost certainly true that serious restrictions on social liberties have been imposed, and resisting this is a good idea. But the levels of paranoia displayed by some of the commentators here are on the same level as the aforementioned publication. My advice to you and most of the others here is go, have a beer or two, get laid and smoke a fag. Chill out.
I was sat on the train the other day and chuckled to myself about the unattended baggage thing as I was sat next to the pile of unattended bags in the unattended bag section next to the nice seat.
But yeah, I tick all 3 of those boxes, the only time the curtains is when my mum comes down from Scotland to check I'm still alive.
But yeah 1) I don't talk to the people around me becouse I'm anti-social, shy and, not at all a people person, when I smile and nod it looks more creepy then inviting so I don't do it. I also don't really like people, most of my friends say that I not so much have friends instead I have people I tolerate.
2) I pay cash becouse I'm paranoid of using the machine and it saying "unauthorised" then looking stupid and paniky, and probably having some psychological brake.
3) I keep my curtains closed becouse I don't particularly like glaring light, or the outside, and becouse I use the curtain rail to hang my idol tapestries.
People have very real social problems (myself for instance) and the ever growing fear that you may not fit in, and that people think you're weird, and that might mean they think you're doing something wrong, and then you may have the police and others persecute you. Fear upon fear upon fear building up and crushing you. So you withdraw ever more deeply.
My problems are borderline. I don't like interacting in large groups, or most open venues, I move towards social situations that are "safe" for me. I avoid clubs, bars, town centres. I prefer what friends I have to visit, or host events at their houses or somewhere private like kareoke boxes. I don't trust people, and can't connect. I'm caught in a constant paradoxical state of not wanting to be close but needing to be close. I've been worse, and I've been better. I go through cycles, and I obsess about things that have happend long ago that others would have long since forgotten about. But for the most I get by at work, and with my small social circle.
98% of people who do those things listed arn't dangerous, they're trapped. Another 1.998% are running dope farms or other dodgy establishments, and the last 0.002% may be wannabe terroistas who are going to blow themselves up and the old bill probably already know about them.
All in all if you have someone like that living near by, invite them to dinner and build up a friendship instead.
Hmm, first the gov tries to get us to telework to reduce the congestion. Then some private company funded by backhanders from the police and gov decides to issue terrorist threats on the radio telling folks to panic about anyone who works from home.
Anyone found the original stazi or french ss poster version of this?
O Esteemed Moderatrix:
Yes, you're lucky - feel free to count yourself so, and enjoy it.
But the point here is that some people aren't - this ad doesn't exist in isolation, it's part of a bigger picture in which the Police feel free to assault innocent people without fear of punishment, and the gummint put people in prison or indefinite detention without a fair trial. Just because it hasn't happened to you (yet) doesn't mean it's not real, and if you really do care about civil liberties, you ought to be getting more airiated about it. The problem with feeling lucky and enjoying it is that it comes dangerously close to denying the reality of other peoples' genuine experience of injustice.
I'm lucky too, in that I've never been on the receiving end of anything as headline-grabbing as the Menezez debacle or the hundreds of anti-terrorist raids in which people have had their doors smashed in and their computers confiscated, only to be told a few days later "You are not a terrorist, now go home but don't expect even an apology, let alone any compensation for your busted door, loss of earnings, ruined reputation etc."
But I have been on the receiving end of police unreasonableness, under sus laws, public order, anti-terror etc - and it's very very frightening (in one case leaving me with post-traumatic stress for years), even when it doesn't result in a charge or a prosecution (as it never has with me). And I'm white and middle-class, so I can hardly imagine what it's like for those who match the typical terrorist profile.
(Though worryingly, as a regular user of both cash and curtains, perhaps I now do match the typical terrorist profile.)
But I have a top tip for avoiding most police unpleasantness - stay away from London. There may be other places to avoid too, but the Met do seem to be particularly at odds with their community, and I know that my local Bill in Staffordshire are just lovely - even winning a Stonewall award for being a gay-friendly employer.
AC because I wouldn't want my misspent youth catching up with me...
but when it's you getting dragged off to the cells accused of a serious offence and expected to essentially prove your innocence it's a different matter.
Luckily for me I remembered to ask for the duty solicitor, who promptly tore the bastards apart by pointing out that the git who made the phone call accusing me of child abuse was the same git I had been complaining about for years for harassing me.
Didn't stop the plod calling the Social Services child protection mob in and having me banned from my own home while the dozy bastards put 2 and 2 together.
One nervous breakdown and ongoing PTSD + depression + drink problems later and frankly, call me a sceptic, but I no longer trust ANYTHING or ANYONE connected to the police. And I live in an area where the cops are regarded as pretty reasonable. Sod living in the Met's patch.
My Aunt refuses to have a passport, refuses to have a bankcard, does not have a driving license, suffers from cronic asthma, arthiritis and her vision is quite poor. She pays cash for everything, she has to have a bank account to collect her disabled benefits.
My mother-in-law is quite similar, she has a bankcard but has stashed in a drawer as she hates using it. She also has no passport of driving license.
Most old folks hate using cards, don't often have many mates left and more often than not will not have lots of official docs like passports and driving licenses.
So basically a large proportion of the over 60's with health problems are terrorists according to the thick-as-two-shorts coppers!
Is this a cunning plan by the "Gubmint" to bump off the OAPs to save on the pensions? "Sorry Guv, we brought the old biddy in after she was reported for being a terrorist but, oh dear, she fell down the stairs and never got up.".
This, in Plod terminology, is INCITEMENT or maybe even RACIAL INCITEMENT. But the insight into what passes for Plod thoughts is very interesting .. and useful.
Many people are unemployed and unlikely to become bank customers - they like people with money - and what if people choose to keep their curtains dawn.
Next thing the 'Englisman's Castle' will be required to divest their estates of all leafged shrubbery exceeding 6 feet in height. Maybe they should ban all those gause/chintz curtains that prevent plain view of house interiors.
Or could it be that due to Plod budget reductions means they are abandining police cars for surveillance and masses of detectives are riding around on the upper decks of buses peeping in windows.
They could ask Google to run two sets of cameras on heir Streetview cars: a lower one for Google and a higher one for Plod.
Then building regs will need rewriting banning bedroom windows not facing the road, in case some miscreant tries to commit his crime in private.
As for myself, I will continue to use cash because any supposed privacy connected with banking or cards of any type is totally illusory. And a closing hint for terrorists: use a debit card and your bedroom curtains open!
"contemplate how lucky I still am and will continue to be and how most of the rest of the world would probably walk over broken glass to be in my position."
Just because the rest of the world may be daft enough to want to be in your position, doesn't mean that your position is anything like "human sensible". Every one into a gas chamber would rather be at the back of the queue, I dare say. No matter where you are, you're still in the queue.
It's called "thinking beyond".
Peace.
...that in Holland, almost everyone leaves their curtains open all the time, even at night. One explanation of this is due to the Dutch national character - a spirit of openness and also one of order, i.e. the housewife would be ashamed to close the curtains as it would imply an untidy house. I also had another explanation (from a Dutch person) who suggested that during the war the Nazis made the Dutch keep their curtains open at night so they could be seen and the habit just stuck, i.e. "I have nothing to hide". Now that's just sinister!
No Nazi symbol unfortunately!
They have run these adverts before - I remember last year there was one about keeping tabs on your colleagues at work - colleagues under suspicion are those who minimising their screen when you walk past, look at google maps and check flight times. Beyond belief, it really is!
I have now reported the bloke who sits opposite me at work. Well for having a fairly heavy sun tan, and wearing a purple shirt. Oh and the 17 year old at the local coffee shop. She did try to do me out of nearly a 4 quid..... OK so I may have exaggerated a little on the phone, but it is pretty god damn obvious she is trying to obtain illicit funds for terrorist activities.
Gonna have a look round the office now and see if I can spot any of these terrorist screen minimizers . WTG Thanks for the tip Dazzar.
I thought that when the ASA responded to complains from such small amounts of people it was over-reacting and pandering to a vocal minority. At least that's the impression I got from other ASA related threads here...
(NB: I think that the advert should have been banned, I just thought I'd say...)
The way I see things brewing, you lot are fixing to make Brixton, Handsworth, Toxteth & Chapeltown look like a tea party[1] ... Seriously, remember back when the sus laws were abolished? Remember WHY?
The more we forget history, the more we are doomed to repeat it ...
[1] Yes, I know, the irony is not lost on me ...
The thing about "taking to the streets" against something like this is you need a leader that appeals across the board. There is no leader, there will be no taking to the streets. There are lots of bits and pieces here and there but nothing central.
I'm sure if someone could tie together all the different groups photographes, anti-centralised data and snooping, anti extreme terror law (20 odd day laws, secret evidence), anti unfair treaties with the US, ant-extreme porn law people, moderate muslim groups, anime fans, artists, comedians, anti war people and a host of others then something could change, but individually they are easy to marginalise fear of being accused of being a supporter of terrorists/soft on terror, soft on crime, a paedophile, a sexual deviant, a coward (contradictoraly).
There are no leaders, there is no movement, beyond the niche.
The elements are there but there's no focal point and for the past 30 years we've had our confrontational nature bred out of us. I remember at school it was all about being part of the group, not being in competition with each other, that kind of thing.
Sarah ... I'm afraid you are correct. That's what scares me.
titus ... I haven't been to Blackpool in over 15 years. I haven't even been back to Blighty in 10 or so. These days, I only fly when I'm at the controls (I don't like being treated as a criminal for the duration of the time I'm under the eye of airport so-called "security") ... and none of my aircraft can go more than 2200 miles or so without refueling ;-)
AC ... There were no "leaders" in the afore mentioned riots. People are animals, and when you push animals to the breaking point, they snap. Get ready. It's gonna git ugly ...
Every time it's suggested police should actually do more low-level things like "increase patrolling on foot", ACPO will offer up some jabberer to point out this would distract from important stuff like "fighting international terrorism". And that fight consists of this kind of tosh?...
The problem this story is scratching isn't so much the rise of our own stasi, but something way more prosaic (and alarming in its own way) - UK police are confusing their prized "operational independence" with just "independence", and are morphing into a spinning, market-researching, advertising and political campaigning body. Only, being a bunch of middlebrow Express readers, they are, by-and-large, incredibly bad at it - and probably can't be trusted to keep their policy positions and subsequent prejudices distinct from their policing duty. Ms May, while pushing for elected police chiefs, ought to be prohibiting police-led campaigning of all stripes. Eliminating ACPO, which appears to do little else, would be a grand start.
Define: terrorism
"the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear"
sound like any goverment you know? Seems like the taliban are just less subtle about it
Why do I suspect that this is a case of plod trying to improve their clearup stats for other crimes.
The police (and other bodies) have a pretty impressive record of using anti-terrorist legislation in order to catch perfectly ordinary criminals. It needs to be stopped, but this looks like a continuation of the practice. For example, crooks especially small time ones are more likely to use cash than cards (which isn't the same thing as saying everybody who pays cash is a crook, before the flames start). If you were using your house to store say stolen goods or knock off designer gear or maybe grow weed you might want to keep the curtains closed. And if you were just a indoor tenant gardener the neighbours would be unlikely to see much of you. And the police would be interested in you if you happened to be up to any or all of those things, but it wouldn't make you a terrorist.
OTOH I fail to see why a terrorist would want to pay cash, except perhaps when buying the tools of his trade. I have no idea why a terrorist would need to keep their curtains closed, it's not like they'd be practicing in the living room on a wednesday afternoon. And I'm pretty sure that there's no evidence that any of the convicted or indeed dead terrorists in Britain over the last few years didn't talk to their neighbours. Indeed I seem to remember the neighbours of one particular "terrorist mastermind" telling every journalist who would listen that their neighbour had seemed a perfectly normal, friendly bloke.
So are ACPO really looking for terrorists or are they after criminals? Lets say the average man in the street thought his neighbour was a bit dodgy and growing weed or maybe selling stolen gear, would he shop him to the police. Probably not. But if he thought that same neighbour was a terrorist? Probably. So are the police out to convince us that everybody who is in the slightest bit dodgy is in fact a terrorist.
Smack of the rhetoric of Tony Blair. You know the sort of thing - "if you're not on my side you must be a terrorist".
Not to stop the hysteria of one direction and point it at myself, but why the vitriol against the "plods"? You can bet the average plod is probably cringing with horror at this as much as anyone else, and worse because s/he's associated with it. And they've probably got a new form to fill in when all they want to be doing is nicking burgulars and such.
Just strikes me that just because the boss commissions some numb-nuts communications company to make a stupid ad, doesn't make every plod responsible. Would you want to be taken to task for every bad decision your boss ever made?
Hey AC expect some major down voting on this comment. I used the phrase 'The Police do a fair job in difficult circumstances ....' in one comment on here, and got 42. I mainly put this comment on here because of all the references to the police being c***s. Which given that these are the folks who tend to end up at the sharp end when things go wrong seems grossly unfair.
What some of the folks on here don't understand is there paranoid assumption that the state is out to get them is wrong. Now don't get me wrong the reaction in this country, and across the developed world to terrorism has caused a significant curtailment of social liberties. But ya know -
There is -
No area 51
Men did land on the moon
Lady Di isn't now living on an Island with Elvis having decided to duck out of the lime light
The average Policeman doesn't want to beat the average man on the street to a pulp
etc etc.
Things have now swung one way, and pretty well will swing back the other way. Tony and Gordon are gone now. Lets see what happens in the next year or two?
...I'm very sure there are countless ordinary coppers who see the berks in ACPO cavorting about the headlines and really do cringe. But why don't these ordinary coppers ever speak up? It would be nice - no, actually reassuring - to know that down-to-earth, everyday coppers felt every bit as incensed as Joe Public about this kind of idiocy.
The shame of it is, that the last time anyone serving in the ranks of the police service tried to expose the lunacy within he was censured pretty smartly and prevented from blogging about it ever again.
But I still take your point. This is not ALL policemen and women. Of course not. What makes it dangerous, though, is that it's just a few of the very top-ranking officers. If this little episode is yet another example of their 'executive' thinking, then there really is a cause for very genuine concern.
Yesterday I had bottles of chemicals and measuring cylinders in the bathroom, and later on, the curtains closed for ages. I also paid for a bottle of mineral water just beforehand, with cash.
Should I turn myself in?
Saying "no, officer, I was developing film in the bathroom, and had the curtains closed while colour-correcting the scanned results" might be unwise. We all know that photography practically is terrorism anyway- I should beat myself up now, get it over with.
...the completely unregulated market in curtains.
For some unfathomable reason it's perfectly acceptable in modern society to go into a shop and spend hundreds of pounds on a set of completely opaque curtains without having to go through a background check or show identity.
I'm glad ACPO have clarified the problem, now we need to know more about this shady operation which goes under the innocent cover name of 'John Lewis'.
The Home Office: Be Safe, Be Suspicious.
I have had the pleasure to work with ACPO and most of the policing bodies, and I can tell you that they are deluded in a very special way...
They promote diversity, equal opportunities fairness etc. but the reality is you can do all the above as long as you do it their way there is no room for deviation from the senior management's plan and they always know best.
They live in a bubble where they are saviours to us all and if they don't do what they do then civilisation will come to sticky end.
We do need to ask what do we need the police for?
I personally want the police to be on hand when my house gets robbed not beating down civilians and intimidating normal joe bloggs
How do i connect 'the man at the end of the street' with 'closed curtains' , 'not using a card' and 'not speaking to neighbours' unless I'm the shopkeeper where 'the man' shops either living in the same stair, or I the shopkeeper live in the same street and I often discuss the spending habits of my customers with other customers, or follow them home.
Ok, perhaps I the shopkeeper run a 'Military Excess and TNT' store very close to 'the man at the end of the street' or 'the man' keeps buying large amounts of soda bicarb, nutmeg or hair dye for cash from his nearest/my cornershop. So, if somehow I make these connections, should I not merely dismiss 'the man at the end of the street' as an imbecile incapable of making an effective terrorist attack and probably from the same 'terror cell' responsible for all the other recent dud 'attacks' ?
If this is the real size of the threat that al-quaida poses (and the cops seem to think it is) can't we cut that anti-terrorism budget a tad Dave, or simply ask shopkeepers to put up a sign 'Nutmeg - Card only' ?
It's nothing quite new. To take something contemporary - www.somethingawful.com/d/comedy-goldmine/dvd-piracy-posters.php
These posters do have a great lulz potential.
"he uses a deodorant, wears a black suit and buys batteries[...] but together it means he may be a zombie ninja robot"
"...but together it means he may be an anticommunist"
"...but together it means he may eat babies"
"...but together it means she may be a witch"
well, you got the idea.