back to article Microsoft digs Macs in back-to-school ads

Microsoft has dusted off some hoary anti-Apple chestnuts in a new "Macs-suck-we-don't" web-based ad effort. It must be back-to-school computer-buying time — and Microsoft's marketeers aren't going to let the Mac's sales surge continue without a fight. Redmond floats a few reasons why a Windows PC is superior to a Mac on its …

COMMENTS

This topic is closed for new posts.
  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Astonishing Chutzpah

    errata

    "If most of the computers in your office or school run Windows you may find it harder to get things done with a Mac."

    "If most of the computers in your office or school run a different version of Windows, or a different version of their Office products, you may find it harder to get things done with a PC."

    FTFY

    1. MacroRodent Silver badge
      Thumb Down

      Convicted monopolist boasting about its monopoly

      And if most of the Windows computers at the school used OpenOffice for office work, instead or MS Office, Mac users, Linux users, Solaris users, FreeBSD users etc. would not notice much difference, since it works pretty much the same on all those platforms.

      In that part of the ad, Microsoft is pretty much admitting it has the office suite monopoly, and you had better go along with it, or else...

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Jobs Horns

      LOL - funny

      Was that backward compatable or forwardly back compatible with future versions not yet developed?

      Using Microsofts new 2015 prerelease version of office 2020 in 2010 beta verison that only runs *.wankx files (windows anticiapatory neurally keyed Xformat); thus rendering all software obsolete before it's even available.

      And all versions ever produced - are now being given a free security upgrade to lock them against further use until the buyer buys the update patches....

  2. Semaj

    a

    "and who popularized those over a decade ago?"

    I doubt very much that any college student is going to settle for a mac that was made over a decade ago. And if you don't think that the way it looks is a major factor for most buyers of computers then you are very mistaken so this is a fairly major point rather than a niggle. Unfortunately (for Microsoft) the case is that Macs ARE more fashionable than PCs and complaining that you can't stand out by having a non white / silver machine isn't going to do much when fitting in with their peers is what young people WANT to do.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Not only that

      But a Mac from a decade ago is more likely to run something from today than a PC will.

      I recall running Marathon back in the late 90's on a Mac IIc; ran well!

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Coffee/keyboard

        Not only that?

        OK, I'll bite.

        Please elaborate how a 10-year-old 500MHz Powermac G3 with Mac OS 9 (state-of-the-art then) would run today's software better than a 1GHz (state-of-the-art as well) PC with Windows 2000?

        Or if you are comparing the hardware alone, and would have upgraded the OS anyway:

        How would running the same Mac with OSX 10.4 vs. the same PC with XP SP3 enable running more software from today?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Linux

          MHz/GHz

          Means nothing. Any idiot can claim a machine is faster because it's got more Hz. In point of fact, this was a major reason why AMD do not use Hz ratings on their processors, instead listing them as compatible with XYZMhz Intel. Benchmarking shows this as well.

          So.. tell me again what your point is??

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Coffee/keyboard

            Re: Hz

            If you would have read the comment thoroughly, you'd have noticed it wasn't about the Hz's.

            It was about the likelihood to run today's software in either the G4+OS9 vs. P3+W2K case, or G4+OSX10.4 vs. P3+XP. The original poster claimed Mac victorious even though OS-wise the PC would win hands down. Even the latest Apple Quicktime doesn't work with the Mac (requires OSX 10.5), but the PC with XP would be fine. (though why would anyone install Quicktime on a PC is beyond me)

            I'm sure there would be cases where the G4-500 would beat the P3-1000.

      2. DavCrav Silver badge
        FAIL

        FYI

        Marathon runs fine on PCs; in fact you can download it for free now.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Grenade

          Run it on a PC as old as the IIc

          Then we can talk.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Grenade

    With a PC running Windows you get

    Blue Screen of death

    You need to run anti virus software

    Patches EVERY month

    Zero day exploits

    1. Bear Features

      mac user myself

      and? Blue screen of death? When was the last time? Don't even remember. My bloody Macbook Pro froze out of the box.

      You need to run (free) anti-virus software. a. and? 2. Mac store in London advised me to get it for my MCP.

      Patches every month... and?

      Seriously... stop believing the Apple fed advertising. You know what I do on my Windows machine? Get on with it, and use it. And it's great. :p

    2. Tigra 07
      FAIL

      What planet are you on?

      Yes you're right of course.

      There are no vulnerabilities for a mac, and no one has ever had malware on a mac

      Only non mac computers are vulnerable to hacking and viruses and trojans

      Isn't that right apple fanboy?

      1. Seareach

        well it pretty much is right ....

        in my experience

        xfingers

        fanman

      2. Jurassic

        You are absolutely correct.

        There are no viruses for Mac OS X, and never have been since it came into use ten years ago.

        Thanks for pointing that out ;-)

        1. Tigra 07

          Mac security not so good

          http://www.securemac.com/

          Even the mac security site points out shit loads of trojans and threats Jurassic

        2. Tigra 07
          FAIL

          Wrong Jurassic

          The virus, named OSX/Leap-A (also known as OSX/Oompa-A) spreads via instant messaging systems.

          Found a Virus for Mac OS X already, do some research before making a spurious fanboy defense

    3. Arnold Lieberman
      FAIL

      Where have you been the last 10 years?

      BSOD... nope, not once on Windows 7. XP BSODs are usually caused by poor third party drivers, and I've seen enough Macs lock up to know that they are just as susceptible to crashes.

      AV software? Macs are just as prone to viruses, and as the platform is becoming more popular the number will increase. Pig-headed arrogant twats who think they are impervious to such attack vectors are going to be the next victims.

      Patches? Of course, Apple NEVER patch their software becuase it's perfect. At least M$ don't charge for service packs.

      Zero day exploits. Nothing unique to Windoze, happens on all systems. Your time will come, ignorant fool! Bwahahahaha!!!

      1. Anonymous Coward
        FAIL

        RE: Where have you been the last 10 years?

        "Patches? Of course, Apple NEVER patch their software becuase it's perfect. At least M$ don't charge for service packs."

        Err. Neither do Apple - you just choose a menu option to look for updates and off you go...

      2. Anonymous Coward
        FAIL

        @Arnie: So *you've* not "blue*" screened...

        That doesn't mean that blue* screens don't occur anymore. I've had a couple with WIndows 7, all driver related, all drivers causing conflicts were Micros~1 own, all on regulation Dell hardware.

        "AV software? Macs are just as prone to viruses, and as the platform is becoming more popular the number will increase." Funny thing is, you trolls have been predicting this ad infinitum and it has yet to materialise. The very same trolls are beginning to levy this assertion on Linux too. "Pig-headed arrogant twats..." Quite, Arnold. Pot and kettle? "...who think they are impervious to such attack vectors are going to be the next victims." Those users exist on all platforms, Arnold.

        "Patches? Of course, Apple NEVER patch their software becuase it's perfect. At least M$ don't charge for service packs." Neither do Apple, Arnold. Would it be easier for you if Apple adopted Micros~1 more archaic OS naming system? Think of OS X 10.6 as Mac OS 16 if it's any easier.

        When do the school holidays end?

        *They've changed it to black

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Megaphone

        @Arnold Lieberman

        I dont get BSOD's on my windows 7, the machine sometimes wont start without being repaired though. Happened quite a few times now with several machines. Maybe they "Fixed" BSOD's like they fixed GPF's in XP?

        MAC's are not just as prone to Viruses you are generalising for your own argument., I've never ran AV on my MAC's and rarely run AV on my PC's, I have never had an infection, as I take appropriate care when dealing with Email.

        To each their own. I'm happy using a blend of technology and I can quite honestly say all have issues, windows simply has more of them.

    4. heyrick Silver badge
      FAIL

      @ Aimee

      Using XP, I've not had a BSOD in years. I've probably just jinxed myself, but... Oh, and while the Win32 builds (W95/98/ME) could be famously unstable, many of the BSODs on my W98SE box were for amazingly stupid things, like "Please insert CD 6F67DD4635C57665B8678A4E6435 into drive D:"... why couldn't that be a MsgBox?

      Are you implying you don't run any anti-virus software? At all? Muppet.

      Patches EVERY month. This is a bad thing? It might be a PITA for systems admins with a hundred odd boxes to update, but I think it would be better to have the update in place than to shrug and say "oh well". Because that attitude is a bit lame if it comes After the fact.

      Zero day exploits - trust me, I will be on the floor laughing so hard I'm in danger of losing body fluids when Macs get their first headline-making exploit. NOTHING is secure. Perhaps the only reason Macs have remained largely unexploited is because there are a lot more stupid people using Windows, stupid people who will fall for scams like fake login pages and likely use the same password for everything. Think about it, the days of cute obscure political messages and "wiping your boot sector" are over. It would be trivially simple to kill a Windows-based PC, but - come on - what's the point? If somebody is going to compromise your machine, they will be in it for cold hard cash. Botnets, keyloggers, and all manner of scams. These sorts of things will work well on people that need to "call an expert" to plug their printer in for them. In other words, not your typical Mac user. But it will happen eventually.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Happy

        If you and others had read it carefully

        you would have noted I said Windows , without declaring a version.

        I also never mentioned MAC, OSX or Apple in the post, you all assumed I was comparing like for like, no, I was stating what happens with Windows. (and I have experienced all of these problems)

        Thanks for the social exercise lab rats. (The clue was in the icon)

    5. Wallyb132
      FAIL

      Running a Mac you get...

      BSOD's

      http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/10/29/no_java_for_leopard/

      http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/10/27/leopard_install_problems/

      Viruses

      http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/04/20/pinhead_mac_trojan/

      http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/28/fake_mac_software_malware/

      http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/04/20/pinhead_mac_trojan/

      No patches

      yadda yadda yadda

  4. CheesyTheClown
    WTF?

    Bought a Mac to run Windows, I don't get it

    Seriously, last PC I bought was a MacBook, got it home, shrunk the Mac partition to 25gb and then installed Windows 7 on the remaining 225gb. I would have much preferred to install Windows straight on the hardware, but apparently, you can't get the drivers from Apple unless you use BootCamp from OS X. I've wasted 25 gigs on other stuff, seems fine to me.

    Apple makes great computers, but OS X just isn't that interesting. I love my iPhone, I like my AppleTV, I love my iPod, I love my MacBook, just think OS X is such a clunker. I have to reboot it all the time, I have to stand on my head to make things work the way they should. Adobe products just run better on Windows anyway.

    A great way to use the MacBook however is to install VirtualBox on Windows, then install Mac OS X in VirtualBox and then install iRapp to merge the desktops. That's pretty entertaining. Then you're on Windows, but you get to run Mac apps too.

    1. Richard 81

      You're weired

      People have always been interested in getting OSX to work on PCs, but Windows only on a Mac? Why on earth would you want to do that?!? You could've bought a comparable PC laptop much cheaper than it cost for your MacBook.

      Also, you should send me your MacBook. You've been abusing it and clearly can't be trusted.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        WTF?

        re You're Weird

        Maybe not... I run my business on Macs simply because it's true that they 'just work' and the TCO has saved us a pile since we switched. I didn't see why anyone would run Windows alone on a Mac (though I can see you might run Windows under Mac OS X if you had an app you wanted to keep for a while during the changeover). However, I met a chap recently who had just sold his business that wrote some sort of database software under Windows. To my eternal surprise he was running Windows alone on Macs. The reason... for the heavy lifting the MacPros were faster than anything from Dell etc at a similar price point and due to the reliability of the hardware and the hardware support from Apple (he'd had experience of Dell support as had we-say no more!). Don't know whether I would have gone down that road, but it's food for thought. He was certainly no mug and had sold out for a sizeable sum. just my 2 penny worth....

    2. Daniel 1
      Joke

      And they say Mac users have more money than sense

      You bought a machine that many think is overpriced, in the first place, and then covered it's hard drive with NTFS. I think you deserve some sort of prize.

      Or a trip back to 1999.

      One or the other.

  5. RefriedNoodle
    Gates Horns

    The arrogance...

    ...of both companies. I always thought Apple's "I'm a Mac" campaign was a little below the belt, but this list of Microsoft is downright crap.

    Use Windows for a PVR? I thought they DRM'd most of it to the point where it can't do the things most people want.

    Mac doesn't let you choose? Try walking into a computer shop and try to buy a pc *without* Windows. See if Microsoft lets you choose that.

    Macs don't like to share? One of the most frustrating things i sometimes have to do on Windows, is share files with computers not on the same domain as i am. While i have no issues with using scp on the commandline to get my files anywhere i want on *nix. Yeah, the syntax takes some getting used to, but it works anytime.

    And two other points on the list basically say "we have a monopoly, it's best for both of us if you just bend over."

    1. Geoff Campbell
      Go

      Windows makes a great PVR.

      Absolutely stunning. I love it. Can't say I've seen any sign of DRM beyond what is on physical media already.

      GJC

      1. Fuzz

        Re: Windows makes a great PVR

        I agree, great looking on screen display, very easy to set up and control. Way ahead of any other PVR I've used in terms of usability and it's included in Vista and Windows 7.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Stop

      In all fairness...

      ...you've probably got more chance of walking into a PC shop and buying a PC without Windows than walking into an Apple store and buying a Mac without OS X.

      1. Lickass McClippers

        RE: In all fairness...

        /\ /\ /\ Whut he said /\ /\ /\

        I have never in my life bought a PC with Windows pre-installed, and I've had a few of them over the last decade and a half. The fact I've installed Windows on them afterwards is my choice...

        1. Geoff Campbell
          Happy

          I've never in my life bought a PC.

          In fact, up until recently I could (and often did, mostly when drunk) argue that I was still running the original PC that I built in 1990. It'd been upgraded a bit along the way, but the floppy drive was still original. Then I discovered the floppy drive was no longer working, and probably hadn't been for many years, so scrapped it in the next round of upgrades.

          I found the original case in the loft the other day, with motherboard number 6 or 7 still installed. Happy memories.

          GJC

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Yes you are correct

        and you wouldn't be able to run much else on any of the other mainstream Unixes other than the manufactures operating system.

        You buy OSX knowing the manufacturer has crafted the base system software to the hardware,

        this is what you pay for.

        Now if you wish to put Windows or Linux on any old hardware fine, but be aware of the potential problems.

    3. Gaz Jay
      Thumb Down

      RE: In all fairness

      Real computer shops would let the customer decide what they wanted on the PC.

      The one I used to work in would ask when a customer wanted a custom build, which was quite common. We even had "off the peg" PCs with *nix installed ready to go in the shop.

      Not all computer shops are PC World.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I have to comment fast to beat the diehards

    Why don't they mention price? That's the first thing I'd bring up if I was going to convince anyone not to buy a mac.

    1. mego
      Gates Horns

      Because oranges to oranges

      You get more Mac for what you pay for than a PC. Unfortunately, since I can't stand Mac - this is a sad fact.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Thumb Up

      Price

      Yep that and https://www.dreamspark.com/ and they don't really need any more cunning marketing as far as students go.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    Yet another toll of the MS death Bell

    So whats the biggest ommission? the one reason you had to buy windows?

    Gaming.

    MS do not want games on the PC they want consoles only. So what is the point in getting windows for a PC? NONE! There is no reason, ubuntu/ Linux / Mac all have suitable web browsers. some have free word processors too.

    MS on PC is dead.

    1. Lickass McClippers

      Title

      You get a thumbs up for the observation about Gaming. I'm a long term PC Gamer, never really liked consoles. However, personal circumstance has meant that I've not had room to have the desktop rig up and running. So to feed my gaming habit, I've been PS3ing it for the last few years. My PC has been shut in a cupboard all that time, and even though I've now able to get the desktop out, it'll probably continue to sit exactly where it is. I'll make do with the laptop for the t'internets.

      However, if I could, I'd also thumbs down you for the observation that MS on PC is dead. Because frankly that's an absurd notion...

      1. Geoff Campbell
        Gates Halo

        MS Dead or dying?

        Well, it's not a completely absurd notion. As online apps get more and more capable, and FOSS solutions become oh so gradually more polished, MS is looking increasingly shaky with their current offerings of Windows and Office.

        However, as online and FOSS solutions move on, so do Microsoft. So another possible future sees MS regaining ground with new packaging of their current offerings, and new products alongside them.

        Time will tell. If I were a gambling man, I wouldn't be counting MS out any time soon, but neither would I be investing heavily in their shares.

        But, if they do eventually die, I for one will miss them. It's been one hell of a ride, and I think it can be argued that the PC wouldn't have reached it's current ubiquitous position without MS's corporate strategy. But that's the past, and this is the future - I wonder what it holds?

        GJC

    2. Pascal Monett Silver badge
      Thumb Down

      Gaming on a Mac ?

      You knock Windows and your excuse is gaming ? In what universe do you live ?

      This is the list of games I have currently installed :

      AI War, Bejeweled 2 dlx, Battlefield 2, Brothers In Arms, Car Tycoon, Civilization 4, Crysis + Warhead, Diablo II, Dungeon Keeper II, Evil Genius, Far Cry, Freelancer, Galactic Civilizations, Hellgate London, Imperium Galactica II, Lemmings95, LotRO, Mechwarrior 4 Mercenaries, Nuclear Ball 2, Star Wars Rebellion, Rome Total War, Settlers 2, SimCity 4, StarCraft II, Unreal Tournament 4, WarCraft III, Capitalism 2, Company Of Heroes, Warhammer 40,000 Dawn of War, Dungeon and Dragons Online, Driving Speed 2, Etherlords 2, FreeCiv, Future Pinball, GTA 3 San Andreas, Lode Runner, Mahjongg, Micro Machines 4, Transport Tycoon dlx, Plasma Pong, Prison Tycoon, Stubbs, Supreme Commander, SWINE, Syndicat, Transport Giant, Theme Hospital, TOCA Race Driver 3 and World of Goo.

      And you can add Steam games if you want :

      Alien Breed Impact, Alien Swarm, Counter-Strike Source, Day Of Defeat, Defense Grid : The Awakening, Enemy Territory Quake Wars, Gratuitious Space Battles, Guild Wars, Left 4 Dead 2, Operation Flashpoint : Dragon Rising, Portal, Half-Life (+Opposing Forces +Blue Shift), Half-Life 2, Serious Sam HD : First Encounter, Supreme Commander 2, Torchlight, UT3: Black Edition, WH40K DoW II.

      And these are just the games I play currently, not all the ones I have (legitimately, I must add).

      So, MAC boy, how many of these games do you have on your platform ?

      Since not long ago, you have Portal. That much I know, since they made a great PR stunt about it on Steam.

      What else ?

      And consoles, pah ! No console has the selection I have, period. No console has any RTS title worth anything. I doubt you can play any Guild Wars, World of Warcraft, or other MMORPG title on console.

      How many subscribers to World of Warcraft already ?

      Windows is far from dead, troll.

      Far from.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Stop

        RE: Gaming on a Mac ?

        "How many subscribers to World of Warcraft already ?"

        Hundreds of thousands. Since WoW is available on the Mac (with much less chance of getting your account hacked), I fail to see your point...

      2. Station Grey

        Wrong joystick

        Kid, you need to have sex with someone, and soon!

    3. Daniel B.
      Troll

      StarCraft 2

      There. You got a good reason why I should keep my PC. Of course, I could have a Mac, but I won't as long as Jobs is in the helm, or at least Jobs with his current attitude.

      1. Barry Lane 1
        Grenade

        @Daniel B.

        "Of course, I could have a Mac, but I won't as long as Jobs is in the helm".

        Yeah, like Steve Ballmer's a real angel. Right?

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Flame

    Correct me if I'm wrong but

    Don't all the schools in the US have Macs in the classroom? All the TV shows I've seen seems to imply that.

    Also, doesn't MS create a Mac version of Office as well?

    Having fun eh? Uh huh, the pangs Windows 7 put me through when using a RPC1 DVD drive...

    To be fair tho, having being spoiled by mice with scroll wheels, I now find the lack of it irritating. And scroll wheel support on a Mac is a hit-and-miss affair. Logitech USB mice with scroll wheels work (after a driver install), but not the PS2 one going through a Belkin F1D080 PC-to-Mac KVM converter.

    1. shadowphiar

      scroll wheels a non-issue

      It's 2010 and you're still using a PS/2 mouse? Pfffft.

      Just go to Tesco and buy a USB wheely mouse for 50p, and plug it in, no drivers required. It's a non-issue.

      1. Volker Hett

        it's 2010

        And I still use the Logitech Trackman Marble FX I bought 2001, best Trackball ever made!

        On a Mac with a PS/2 to USB converter :)

    2. Richard 81

      Never had a problem

      Can't say I ever had a problem with my old Macs using a scroll wheel. Also, they have a scroll pad thing now on the surface of Apple mice.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Coffee/keyboard

      Um..

      >>To be fair tho, having being spoiled by mice with scroll wheels, I now find the lack of it irritating. And scroll wheel support on a Mac is a hit-and-miss affair. Logitech USB mice with scroll wheels work (after a driver install), but not the PS2 one going through a Belkin F1D080 PC-to-Mac KVM converter.<<

      Um.. I dunno if you missed the memo dude, but PS2? Dead as a doornail.. for some years now. Didn't the fact that you don't have a PS2 port clue you in at all?

    4. Geoff Campbell
      FAIL

      I'm just guessing here....

      ....but I suspect that you shouldn't rely upon TV or films for gathering facts about the real world. Just a thought.

      GJC

  9. Ihre Papiere Bitte!!
    Go

    oh boy this is gonna go *boom*

    Making my comment and skedaddling!

    Personally, I find Mac mice infuriating. My boss runs Win 7 on Mac hardware, and every time I try and do something on his computer, the mouse drives me to distraction. No doubt, in the minds of Mactards, that makes me "too stupid to use a computer", as I've been told before on the Reg for daring to say I prefer a PC, but never mind.

    The rest of the list sounds a little too much like a unpopular little boy desperately trying to get the rest of his class to come to his birthday party rather than that of the cool (but widely considered arrogant and annoying) rich kid who's gonna have Glee (insert other inexplicably popular "band" du jour if you prefer) present.

    Time to skedaddle...!

    1. ThomH Silver badge

      Sorry, probably being dense

      I actually don't understand what point Microsoft are trying to make about the mouse. What's the problem with the mouse? You move it, the mouse moves. You press on the left, you do the primary action. You press on the right, you do the contextual action. If you swipe up or down (or left or right), you scroll. How is that a mouse operating differently?

      I'm posting as a reply in case your complaint is about operation. But I suspect it may just be that the current Apple mouse is rather flat and unusually shaped?

  10. alain williams Silver badge

    MS making the case for standards !!!

    ''If you use Apple's productivity suite, sharing files with PC users can be tricky''

    So you want standard file formats. Errrm, but it is MS that works hard to keep the files that it generates in an obscure format - changed every few years just for good measure (and force people to buy the latest version of their s/ware).

    ''Macs don't work as well at work or at school''

    Well in that case, MS: for the good of your customers you ought to work to ensure that things can integrate - by the use of published standards. You don't want to? Is this because you want to make it hard for other operating systems to work with MS ones ? Why would that be ? Preserve your market share ?

    ''Things just don't work the same way on Macs if you're used to a PC.''

    I agree -- this is why I find MS machines hard to use, I am used to Linux. A few years ago MS was saying that use of its machines was inherently easier, now it is saying that people just find them easier because they have been taught them at school -- sounds like a good argument for schools teaching kids to use many different sorts of machine. Mind you, being asked to do this this would give most teachers a panic attack.

    BTW: my PC runs Linux. A ''PC'' is not just something that runs MS s/ware.

    1. LinkOfHyrule
      Joke

      How about...

      How about buying a Mac, but also buying a Microsoft Mouse! (That one made in the Chinese sweatshop that used under-age workers!)

      Taboo I know, mixing the the Jobs and the M$! It's a bit like those brought-up council houses with the stone cladding and mock Tudor beams isn't it!

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Strangley..

        my only Microsoft usb mouse didn't work too well on my mac, or unbuntu, or for that matter XP, however my other el cheapo mice work on all three, as does my Apple mouse.

  11. Jimmy Floyd
    Linux

    Well if that's not embarassing to read

    See, I detest Apple's philosophy as a company (centralised control, dictatorial attitude to the users, massed ranks of people praising the Great Leader ... all basic Communist-party stuff) but I have no problem admitting that Macs are pretty damn good. I wish I had the chance to use them more. And few people are going to stand up and say "Hey, aren't Microsoft great?"

    Thing is, those adverts are just plain weak. I quite like PCs but all of those arguments just make me cringe and want to install something else .... most likely Ubuntu, though!

  12. Anonymous Coward
    WTF?

    Where is Gaming?

    WTF is gaming not mentioned? MS is weird. Its the PC "killer app" yet MS seems ignorant of it. They should be guarding this ace, not ignoring it. If Mac or Linux ever became serious gaming platforms then MS would lose a generation faster then you can say "starcraft II".

    1. Colin Wilson 2

      Starcraft II

      Starcraft II runs great on my Macbook Pro - natively - no windows involved

      1. Richard 81

        Valve

        Valve's Source games are heading that way too. Still in the minority though.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    @RefriedNoodle

    to quote: Use Windows for a PVR? I thought they DRM'd most of it to the point where it can't do the things most people want.

    ----

    Windows Media Centre works wonderfully out of the box with no DRM on the programs i record off TV...So like most Apple users 'you thought differently, ie: didn't find out the facts before posting Wrong

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Gates Halo

    pot calling the kettle

    >>Mac doesn't let you choose? Try walking into a computer shop and try to buy a pc *without* >>Windows. See if Microsoft lets you choose that.

    ----

    At least you can buy a PC without windows, I never seen a Macbook avaliable without OSX.

  15. Select * From Handle

    Windows would have been better off with these points.

    Blue Ray - Ofc

    Mouse - yes thats a stupid problem.

    Price? - Thinking £2500 on a mac pro? why not build a PC yaself which ya cant do with mac OS? for £2500 you can get a rig that will wipe the spots off a mac pro....

    Program Compatability? - their are alot more programs that run on windows...

    the fact that Apple lie. (well so do microsoft but not to the same extent.) what i mean by this is that i have already seen somone post on this thread that you have to run AV on windows. YOU ALSO HAVE TO RUN AV ON MAC... you sir are stupid if you think macs are impervius to viruses just cos apple say so...

    Lack of domain controlls?

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Sharing on a Mac

    "you have to manually set up photo sharing, manually set up music and movie sharing, manually set up file sharing, and manually set up printer sharing"

    Surely that's a good thing. Especially given how many users never bother to change their default settings on either their router or their computer.

  17. JP19

    Mac's don't share my files automatically?!

    I have to manually tell a Mac when I want to share my files? ZOMG! That's rubbish! I must buy a PC because that will apparently share my files automatically! After all, what could possible go wrong with automatically sharing files?!

  18. censored
    WTF?

    when I'm in charge of the world

    Companies will be banned from mentioning or inferring their competitors products. Advertise the positives of your own product or don't advertise at all. This style of ad just makes me believe that even the advertiser can't say anything good about the thing they're trying to sell.

    And this isn't a mac v pc comment, I have and like both.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      King of the world

      Hey - buggeroff - I'm going to be king of the world.

      Who said you could be?

      :)

  19. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    Hahahaha, here's a good one

    "Apple's productivity suite file formats won't open in Microsoft Office on PCs"

    And who's fault is that then?????????

    My native .ODT files can't be opened by MS Office here, is that my fault too?

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    So, Office for Mac is not as good as Office for Windows

    And whose fault would that be?

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    PCs running Windows 7 also come with a learning curve

    for everyone who's used to XP. Which is, erm, everyone.

  22. Debe

    *sigh*

    Oh dear, both companies come across as squabbling four year olds. Im sure im not the only one that wants to prise them apart make them sit in opposite corners and think about their marketing strategies.

    Sure take shots at each other if they want but please do it in a way that doesnt make me cringe. Let someone other than the work experience chap have a crack at it.

    As for gaming on windows... its impossible to get a good strategy game on a console, they've tried sure... but they always manage to turn an otherwise good game into a horrible mutant slime creature gurgling "love me" and clawing at you with horrible little hands until it's malformed internal organs fail it and it dies in a pool of its own juices.

    1. alain williams Silver badge

      Grab the argument

      But by arguing between themselves as to which is better (Mac or MS PC) they convince everyone that the choice is one of their two offerings. What they are both scared shitless of is something else coming in (eg Linux) and eating their market.

      Far better to have pointless ads that just try to brainwash people that it is one or the other.

  23. Witty username
    Gates Horns

    Just watch DVD's

    No big deal.

    hur hur.

    in all seriousness thats a crock of shit, and thats coming from a PC user. Mac's not avalible in luminous pink? OH NOES!

  24. Loosewheel
    Stop

    The day I buy a Mac.....

    .......will be the day when I've lost all my dignity and get a manbag and leather flatcap to go with it.

    1. Richard 81

      The day

      ...you become a stereotype.

  25. strangefish

    Ignoring the silliness of this marketing...

    ...why the hell did Apple stop making different colourways for their larger devices? Whether or not the more technically astute might laugh at the notion of colour choice being an important factor, it was a truly revolutionary idea and in fact a major selling point at the time. A sizable chunk of the population - at least if my other half is anything to go by - still miss that choice.

  26. Anonymous Coward
    Jobs Horns

    My tuppence worth...

    Having used a Mac for the last 3 months, I have to say the GUI is positively infantile. I'll seen Apple's computers described as "it just works", I presume this means "it barely works". The best analogy between PCs and Macs would be: PCs are like a car; they require knowledge to be able to use them and come with a number of gears and pedals. Macs are like dodgems- Ideal for people who don't want to spend the time learning how to drive- There's a steering wheel and a single pedal and that's it. However, you'd only use one of these to drive on the motorway.

    And as for Macs not crashing- I've had Safari regularly crash on me with its "Spinning Rainbow of Death"

    1. envmod

      er

      what the fuck are you talking about?? Dodgems? Drive on the motorway?? Are you on the right website?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Stop

      RE: My tuppence worth

      You're right. Windows is like a car. One with no steering - it crashes all the time. It also leaves its keys in the ignition automatically and winds the windows down for burglars...

      1. Miek

        All over again

        It's the GM Vs MS joke again, run for cover.

        I always preferred BMW's slight on microsoft : "Our Hardware runs better without windows"

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Flame

      Infantile?

      So the search dog in XP was for adults? If your assertion that OS X is indeed infantile, then why the fuck are Microsoft doing their damnedest to continually emulate it?

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      No

      And as for Macs not crashing- I've had Safari regularly crash on me with its "Spinning Rainbow of Death"

      Thats Safari crashing, not the Mac.

      A crash is a BSOD, or a reboot

  27. richard 69
    Grenade

    i'm a mac user but...

    they do have a point.....apple should leave the imac as a multi coloured delight and not adding blu-ray is a prime example of apple's arrogance - we don't want to download movies from itunes apple! reminds me of when apple 'missed the boat' about cd burning many years ago.

    oh and chessytheclown - you have to reboot osx all the time? you're doing something way wrong sunshine, learn a little about the os before blaming it for your errors...

  28. envmod

    meeces

    to all the people who complain "the mouse works differently" on a mac - it doesn't. it works in exactly the same way, right click to get into file settings, scrollwheel etc - you just have to change the mouse setting from default and set it up how you want it. that's the one thing that annoys me about the mac vs pc debate - "oooh, macs work differently" - they work however you want them to work! if you want to set it up to run like windows with files and folders etc, then that's fine, if you want to leave things alone and go with the default settings, then that's also fine.

    macs and pcs are the same fucking things anyway - only difference is the OS. there IS no mc/pc debate, there is only an OSX vs Windows debate.

    personally i prefer OSX, but if you prefer Windows, then go ahead and install it!

    what's the problem here? move along....

  29. Anonymous Coward
    Linux

    oh Microsoft

    "On a Mac, you have to manually set up photo sharing, manually set up music and movie sharing, manually set up file sharing, and manually set up printer sharing"

    Manually as in press some buttons? Isn't that just like Windows then? Or does Windows 7 automatically share all your files? In which case I'd rather not use it.

    "PCs running Windows 7 look and work more like the computers you're familiar with"

    Hold up, what? If that was a selling point - why did you make massive sweeping changes to the interface?

    "If you use Apple's productivity suite, sharing files with PC users can be tricky"

    And who's fault is that, Microsoft?

    The points relating to hardware are valid, in that OS X generally doesn't run on anything other than Macs. But the implication that a huge choice of hardware is only available to Windows users is wrong. Though I suppose that if you get your tech advice primarily from adverts, you probably don't know anything about open source.

  30. Sam Liddicott
    WTF?

    Praise through faint condemnation?

    That bad points about a mac are so weak, that I wonder if that is the best they can do? If so, maybe I should look at buying a mac from that customer-hating company, Apple.

  31. Station Grey

    Wouldn't work anywhere else

    If you consider buying a BMW instead of an Audi, you'll find the BMW might spoil your fun.

    For example, you'll find that some of the seat colours available in your Audi just aren't available on any BMW.

    You'll also find that it's more inconvenient to service because your current Audi dealer doesn't support BMWs.

    Also, you'll find that all spare parts designed for Audis simply won't fit it a BMW.

    Some of the controls you're used to just don't work in the same way either - for instance, the button second to the left from the main control panel operates the rear heated window, and not the air recirculation that you're used to.

    BMWs just aren't very good at multimedia - if you bought the Audi DVD player you'll find it no longer works in a BMW.

    You might find the steering wheel works differently in a BMW than in your Audi*.

    *I don't understand this one either.

    1. envmod

      eh

      what's with all these automotive analogies? it's not Top Gear you know...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Why not?

        It didn't need to be automotive, there's all sorts of things for which the analogy works.

        How about cameras? Different lens fittings, different flash integration, different batteries, different user interfaces, etc. etc.

        Of course BMWs do run Windows...

  32. Daniel 1
    Joke

    Maybe they should just do a Daily mail

    "Macs give you cancer".

    After all, look how well it worked on Linux.

  33. rahul
    FAIL

    In India...

    ...a macbook pro costs INR 80,000+ and the macbook Air over INR 120,000; similar hardware (to the macbook pro) Win machines start from INR 40,000 onwards.

    Given that the budget will probably be the most important criteron to most students, it is another example of MS FAIL when they do not highlight this.

    I'm guessing this line of advertising is soon going to join the "new busy", "Seinfeld shoe store", "pr0n browsing mode" ads in the "dustbin of history" (paraphrased).

  34. Paul 172
    Thumb Up

    I have to admit...

    That this weekend I migrated my MBP to Ubuntu. It's a real shame because it was good while it lasted but OS X just doesn't cut it any more - it's doing the "I'm 6 months old so I'm laggy and slow" trick that Windows usually does.

    Superb to rediscover the speed of my hardware though - it's brilliant hardware and Ubuntu works better, much better than OS X ever did on it.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      But..

      ... how do you know that Ubuntu won't be "laggy and slow" after six months?

      I'm a Kubuntu user myself and love it to bits, but I'm yet to find an OS that doesn't get slower without occasional care and attention.

  35. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up

    Wow

    For once Microsoft is actually telling the truth. However they also forgot More bang for your buck "With a pc you pay less for moar"

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Telling the truth?

      wow. Tell me when it happens.

      Mouse works differently. Sp the MS mouse moves the screen around a fixed point, except when it's plugged into a mac it moves a pointer around the screen screen?

      MS really is clutching at straws.

  36. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Surely not allowed?

    "Macs don't work as well at school or at work"

    and

    "Macs don't like to share"

    Surely these statements are on dangerous ground from a legal perspective?

  37. Anonymous Coward
    Happy

    What about?

    How about their amazing web 2.0 balls up. That is the most exciting part of the page.

    That strange twitter feed is almost certainly fake. I tried pulling down some pages and many of the usernames didn't exist.

    Harnessing the social media balloon doesn't work if customers hate you, so just fake it!

  38. Anonymous Coward
    Stop

    You can't get a Mac that ships with a ... Memory Stick reader

    A few valid points but...

    > You can't get a Mac that ships with a ... Memory Stick reader

    Really?

    The Mac mini has an SD card slot on the back

    The MacBook Pro has an SD card slot on the side

    The iMac has an SD card slot on the side

    Microsoft should actually look up the specs of the computers they're comparing with!!

    1. Ivan Headache

      A memory stick reader

      Wouldn't that just be a USB port?

      That cheesythe clown comment earlier is posted by a clown.

    2. Sooty

      Memory sticks

      >> You can't get a Mac that ships with a ... Memory Stick reader

      >Really?

      Really!

      A memory stick is not a generic memory card, it's a specific type of memory card that is different to an SD card. Most Pc's have multi card readers that read both SD and memory sticks. a few also read XD cards and compact flash.

      They are being absolutely 100% truthful, however, in a way that is misleading if you don't know much about memory cards.

    3. jsk

      Memory Stick? Sony still makes those?

      Average kid going back to school:

      "What's a memory stick? Did they work in 8-Track players or something?"

    4. Geoff Campbell
      FAIL

      Memory Stick is not SD Card

      Perhaps *you* should look up some specs?

      GJC

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Memory Stick

        Really? Does anything even use those anymore. Even my Sony DSLR doesn't support any form of Memory Stick (including HG, Pro, Pro Duo, Micro and anything else). If Sony don't support them anymore I think you can safely assume they're dead in the water.

        Bragging that a PC will support obsolete technology seems a pretty weird way to advertise it.

  39. EvilGav 1

    Here we go again . . .

    All OS's have their good points and their bad points, your choice is more about which one you can live with than anything else and which one does what you want it to do.

    The reality is, all OS's have so many configuration settings that you really do need to be "expert" (for want of a better word) to get the most from it and, above all, to configure it right (and by right I mean so that it doesn't get slower as time goes on and retains a sizable proportion of it's original speed and usability).

    I would consider myself at the "expert" level with Windows, I build my own (and other peoples) systems. My current Vista 64-bit system was built in November 2007, has never been reformatted and still runs faster than some new build Windows 7 machines of friends on better hardware. Yet i'm apparently on the crappy OS. The same machine runs 24/7, cant remember the last time I rebooted and I don't ever remember a BSOD since it was built.

    When it comes to Linux, I can make it work, but i'm a long way from knowing how to set it up right, most of my time will be spent on Google working out what I need to tweak. This is not a slight on Linux, it's just that I don't know the OS well enough to do it justice.

    Finally, OS X, I know almost nothing about, beyond a minor level of usability. Wouldn't have the first clue about how to set it up for the way I need it to work. So I don't use it and have no interest in paying the premium required to join the club.

    Adverts like the one run by MS do nothing to gain support.

  40. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Worst bit..

    The worst (and indeed most telling) part is the thing about the mouse.

    "If you're used to a PC..." tells you all you need to know.

    The worst bit is: they are making the assumption that PC=Windows. However the mouse on my home PC works differently from the one at work, because my home PC doesn't run Windows. They are clearly trying to force people to believe there are only two desktop OS's in the world and if you buy a PC you only have one option. The funny thing is that they are obviously trying to catch 'em young to avoid another lost generation, but they're on a hiding to nothing there. My five year old son can operate Windows, KDE and OSX with equal ease, it took him no time to work out how to use the DVR as well. Kids these days are brought up with the concept of GUIs and have no problems adapting to new ones. So in a few years time differences in GUI will be insignificant to the majority of users.

    The telling bit is: So they're not aiming this campaign at people who are used to Macs, they are aiming it at people who have PCs.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Coat

      Well yes.

      They're trying to persuade people not to try a Mac. People that do that tend to be lost MS customers...

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Thumb Down

      "My five year old son can..."

      "My five year old son can operate Windows, KDE and OSX with equal ease" - Scary, scary times.

      My five year old son can play football, hide and seek, tag, with equal ease, but knows little on how to use a PC. He's only 5 for Christ sake, he doesn't need to use one yet!

      I prefer that my kids were out getting fresh air, exercising and playing rather than have them in teaching them my hobby.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        So what?

        "My five year old son can play football, hide and seek, tag, with equal ease, but knows little on how to use a PC. He's only 5 for Christ sake, he doesn't need to use one yet!"

        Funny that my five year old does all the things yours does as well as ride a bike, swim, fly a kite and bodyboard. And he can use a computer, DVD player, STB and he's getting pretty good on the allotment too - his parsnips are the biggest on the site. Not a bad wee cook either so long as there's an adult to deal with the hot stuff. Plus of course he can read and write and count. And yes he does *need* to use a computer - they are on the curriculum at school.

        Kids learn easilly and quickly. Just because they're only five you should not limit their activities, indeed the opposite is true they pick up new skills much quicker at that age. A five year old will generally learn a new skill much quicker than a ten year old and so much quicker than an adult it's scary. And the great thing is they don't tend to lose those skills in a hurry. They should try something new at least once a week. His new thing this week is camping.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          yes yes yes

          but does a 5 year old really need to know how to use so many different operating systems?

          My son can use the computer, ok it's only Windows XP and it's only very basic what he can do (go on the Cbeebies website for example), and he can use the TV and Sky.

          "Kids learn easilly and quickly. Just because they're only five you should not limit their activities" - My point exactly. Rather than pushing my hobby onto my son, I'd rather him be out doing what he likes doing and finding his own interests.

  41. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    FAIL

    "PCs running Windows 7 look and work more like the computers you're familiar with"

    Why do they make the apparent assumption that everybody is familiar with Windows and nobody is familiar with anything else.

    We used to have a manager (thankfully long gone) who wanted Windows everything, the problem was his argument against anything else was always that it was "non-standard". As if Windows is some sort of internationally agreed standard and everything else is deviant. MS clearly think the same way.

    Microsoft have admitted they have lost a generation, but they are still pushing forward as if they haven't. They need to get rid of all the marketing drones who think like that and get in a new generation who will sell Windows as if it were a new product. That's always the best way to sell anyway - trying to sell something on the basis of it's being old and familiar is doomed to failure.

    Some people buy things just because they're familiar and will buy nothing else, marketing doesn't work on these people because it isn't needed to make them buy what they already buy and it won't be heeded if it's trying to make them change. You've all met the man who's on his umpteenth new Ford and has never owned anything else and never will and his dad was probably the same.

    Other people make decisions (not always wise ones) based on publicity which isn't always the same as advertising, something gets a mention somewhere and they think "ooh, that looks good, I'll try that". Marketing really works on these people, but it's got to have impact saying "buy this because it's familiar" really won't work on them, "buy this because it's new and exciting" might work.

    Then there are people who do research and make informed decisions. Marketing can work on this group, but it has to be reasoned. Saying "don't buy anything else because it sucks" is not going to work because nobody making an informed decision is going to be stupid enough to listen to anybody listing the cons of the opposition without coming up with and real pros for their own product.

    What was clever about the "I'm a Mac" stuff initially was that nobody had done anything like it before. It did make valid some comparisons, but mainly it was fresh and amusing. It got a bit stale after a while mainly because it had nothing new to say, but also it lost that freshness. It should have been killed off sooner. MS however are stuck in a rut fighting back against an ad campaign that is long gone. MS also have had nothing new to say for some time. The really worrying thing is that they seem to have nothing new to say about their apparently world beating new product, Windows 7. Also worrying is the fact that some of their major selling points for their OS have got nothing to do with their OS. Has the colour of the case or the hardware options in some PCs got anything to do with Windows? Nope.

  42. Miek
    Linux

    Wow

    I look forward to the Mactaliation, should be almost as hilarious as this.

  43. John Smith 3

    Hilariously inept marketing

    Here are a few more for you Microsoft....

    It is far easier to get warez software from your mates if you have a PC.

    PCs generally have many more blue LEDs than Macs.

    If you buy a Mac then people may think you are a homosexualist.

  44. Anonymous Coward
    Alert

    What?

    'MAC's dont work as well at work or school'?

    So there is some spooky anti mac force field installed in all workplaces and schools!!

    So they must work great in the home, where there is no spooky force field?

  45. Shane Kent

    let's use...

    marketing to fight Apple, after all it hasn't been working for 5 years now?

    Dear MS management, put down the pay cheque, leave the building, and ....

  46. richard 69
    Pint

    one more great thing about windows....

    it works better with your Zune......

  47. Alan Denman

    How about 'software performance sucks on a Mac'?

    Oops that certainly included Microsoft Office for Mac.

    Back to the drawing board..

  48. SlabMan

    Plus point

    For some people, a home computer that looks/works different to the one at work is a plus point. In much the same way as a couch looks/works different to a desk - we don't all want homes that are facsimiles of our offices

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Not only that...

      ...but it makes it less likely you'll have to take work home.

      "Sorry I can't work on those documents at home. I've got a Mac."

  49. Robert Forsyth
    Terminator

    It is either very clever or very dumb

    Clever:

    Most people are focusing on the just TWO OS, blinded to any alternatives: classic marketing.

    When you buy batteries from a shop there are usually two brands: a cheaply priced one you have never heard of and a premium priced brand - given this choice, there are generally two sorts of customers: ones who buy the cheapest and ones who buy the branded one.

    Microsoft cannot do cheapest, since Windows is a similar price to OS X (but cheaper hardware) and Linux is free.

    Dumb:

    It make people look at the competitor.

    Part of the Microsoft - OEM deal is to advertise Windows.

    I've not used Windows 7, but I'll assume it is just Vista with a service pack and name change. The network wizard in Vista seemed to be the same as the terrible one in XP - similar but not for a good reason. As a former XP user, some settings are very difficult to find in Vista.

    Using OS X (in the Apple shop) there is a minute or so of culture shock and (as with Linux) things are set-up for you without going through a 'make you feel stupid' wizard (unfortunately Linux apes Windows in many ways).

    Sent from my Linux netbook (that is too small to run Windows).

    1. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      Windows is a similar price to OS X (but cheaper hardware) and Linux is free.

      Huh?

      Windows 7 Home (single): $199.99 [upgrade: $119.99]

      Windows 7 Pro (single): $299.99 [upgrade: $199.99]

      Windows 7 Ultimate (single): $319.99 [upgrade: $219.99]

      OSx (single): $26.91 (Amazon) [5 licenses for family: $49]

      It should be noted that you buy OSx, you get the full enchilada in one pack. No Home Premium. No Pro. No Ultimate. No Cappa-latte-skinny-model crap.

      Now.. call me dumb; but even the cheapest commercial price is nearly 10x the price of OS X. How is this a similar price?

  50. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up

    Just get a mac

    you know you want one.

  51. Rob Davis

    Agree with posters - as a Mac, Windows, Ubuntu user myself...

    Sharing on a Mac - @Anonymous Coward, Posted Tuesday 10th August 2010 09:15 GMT

    ""you have to manually set up photo sharing, manually set up music and movie sharing, manually set up file sharing, and manually set up printer sharing"

    Surely that's a good thing. Especially given how many users never bother to change their default settings on either their router or their computer."

    I agree. The default settings possibly have the lowest security.

    Convicted monopolist boasting about its monopoly - MacroRodent, Posted Tuesday 10th August 2010 09:21 GMT

    ""And if most of the Windows computers at the school used OpenOffice for office work, instead or MS Office, Mac users, Linux users, Solaris users, FreeBSD users etc. would not notice much difference, since it works pretty much the same on all those platforms."

    In that part of the ad, Microsoft is pretty much admitting it has the office suite monopoly, and you had better go along with it, or else..."

    I agree. Their argument fails on merit as it is merely their legacy - which the poster below elaborates on:

    Astonishing Chutzpah - Anonymous Coward, Posted Tuesday 10th August 2010 07:06 GMT

    "errata

    "If most of the computers in your office or school run Windows you may find it harder to get things done with a Mac."

    "If most of the computers in your office or school run a different version of Windows, or a different version of their Office products, you may find it harder to get things done with a PC."

    FTFY

    "

    My view?

    Well, I own an apple mac book pro 17", run a desktop PC with Windows 7 and Ubuntu Linux and a Netbook with Windows XP, so:

    "No blu-ray built-in to apple mac" claim? True, but I have an external blu-ray burner to attach. The barrier is cost for sure.

    "No eSATA on high-end macs" claim? Nearly true, but latest mac book pro 17" (in fact that is why I was forced to spend more and buy this rather than lower spec models) still have ExpressCard/34 to add an eSATA card, Mac Pros also with expansion, but yes, a serious mistake on Apple's part to omit this capabaility from smaller Mac Book Pros and iMacs.

  52. dogged
    Stop

    MS - doing it wrong

    You want students to buy a PC? Reprise Apple's campaign.

    Mac: Hi, I'm a Mac

    PC: *silence*

    Mac: Are you busy, PC?

    PC: Shut up, I'm gaming.

    Mac: Oh, which games have you got?

    PC: All of them. Bitch.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      FAIL

      You would be right were it not for the fact that kids play games on consoles. Only sad old nerds play games on PCs.

  53. Jerren
    Boffin

    A couple things missing....

    Ok I recently took the plunge and purchased the 17" Macbook pro, so far it's been the best laptop I have ever owned and I have owed several over the years including some from Alienware and other high end laptops. (I'm an IT veteran of over 25 years) I'm mostly a web security, architect and software designer these days, not a gamer and so far I am extremely pleased with it for what I need.

    Few points to consider here:

    Overall build quality - The MBP17 is by far one of the most solid well engineered laptops I have ever used. every detail appears to be well though out and not just thrown in there because it fits that way the way most PC laptops seem to be in comparison. It's less than half the thickness of my wife's 6 month old HP laptop (without it's bulging battery pack with it it's roughly 1/4 the thickness) and even though mine is a 17' and her's is a 15" mine weighs less. It's solid aluminum body while not colorful is classy, and I think makes the plastic ones look cheap personally. Small touches like a closing cover over the express card slot to keep dust out and the clever button that shows you the current battery charge without booking up are very nice. The mag safe charger cable and brick are much nicer than any PC power connectors I have used, no shorting or sparking if you connect a live cable. (Haven't we all at least once done this?)

    CPU - All of the Macbook Pro's support Hardware Virtulization, even the lower end 13" models, most of the PC laptops you will find at the big box stores do not (or at least didn't as of a month ago when I was looking around) Anyone running windows 7 who wants to ever run a MS Virtual PC (aka windows XP mode) on their laptop will be disappointed after shelling out the cash for Windows 7 pro or Ultamate to find the hardware on their new PC won't support it. I do a lot of development so VM's are a must. Enterprise customers need the XP mode for legacy software.

    Flexibility - You can run a PC on a mac, not the other way around. And with the latest Parellels Software they PC apps just show up in their own apps folder. Start up and shutdown of Windows 7 is faster than on a similarly configured PC (PC actually has more RAM maybee that's part of it but who knows.) The PC based apps I still use run fin without issues.

    Office Apps - I run Office 2007 and 2010 on the PC's, Open office on my linux boxes, I run Apple's iWork package on my mac, mostly because it was less than half the cost of MS Office. Yes office has more bells and whistles but I find the items on the iWork easier to use to create stunning layouts, I even find myself using Adobe in-design less and Pages more and more.

    The touch pad - it's a multi-touch pad, not a touch pad and yes it takes a while to get the hang of but is very intuitive and powerful. I have never been a fan of touch pads, in fact I hate them with a passion but this one is easier and works better than any I have ever used, and I almost never use my mouse anymore just the pad.

    Battery - While I'm not seeing 9 hours on battery while actually doing work (I did bump the cable out one night and it ran on battery for over 10 hours idle though) I constantly get a good 5-6 doing regular work (coding mostly) with no issues or fear of completely running out of power. I have yet to have a windows laptop provide me the same performance without a bulky spare battery pack attached.

    Support - The one time I called support for an issue with the time machine backups (which turned out to be a bad external drive no the mac btw.) I was connected to a support person in under 2 minutes and then escalated to a specialist in under 5, problem was sorted in quick order. In contrast to HP which is supposed to have the best support in the PC world a similar support call took over 3 hours. Time is money I need to be working not running though the same thing 10 times over and bounced around the globe.

    Out of the box - While various PC makers add various software (mostly trials) with the mac you get enough to get started with for most needs, iphoto, Itunes, i movie, mail, ical, preview (document/pdf reader) Garage band, time machine (automatic backups) idvd, safari, photo booth, ichat, etc all come out of the box. This is enough for most home users. Most other software as mentioned earlier is easy to find and install. (in OSX you just drag the file to the apps folder to install) You also get a full linux and xwindows environment as well. As well as a relatively easy scripting language and automation tools.

    Developer tools included - Yup Xcode is on the install DVD just install it, now you can write, compile, and debug software for the mac. Last time Microsoft shipped any development tools with windows was what Dos 6.22? Yes you can download the community versions of their development tools but it's just not the same. I honestly did not expect to see this for free on the Mac but was pleasantly surprised.

    Finally the dang thing just works, it does what i need when I ask it to, my letterhead in office 2007 always fights me after saving the initial template, in Pages it just works. No hangs no spontaneous reboots, I can set up remote ssh/ftps mounts and work with files on my servers directly. Almost no learning curve for me, but if I did need help I can always schedule a one to one training session at my local Apple store for free with the apple care

    Bottom line, like many things in life it's still a ya get what you pay for situation. You pay more for the mac (a lot more granted) but if you can afford it and it suits your personal and professional needs I would go for it. I don't think I'll buy anything else form here on.

  54. Anonymous Coward
    WTF?

    "....your spreadsheets might not calculate correctly. "

    WTF? Really?

  55. Arhu
    Megaphone

    FFS, Macs ARE PCs

    PC stands for Personal Computer. I am typing this on my workstation, not my PC. There's no such thing as "Mac vs PC", it's a Cupertino marketing invention that everyone, including Microsoft, need to stop playing into. The actual comparison in OSX vs Windows but this seems to have too many syllables.

  56. Henry Wertz 1 Gold badge
    Jobs Horns

    a few valid points and a bunch of BS

    Valid -- there's a lot more choice of PCs than Macs, including PCs at a much lower price point than Macs. I would never buy one with Windows though.

    That's about it! Windows doesn't print or file share without turning it on either, since that'd be pretty damned insecure. Familiarity? I really don't know that Windows 7 is more "familiar" than OSX, given how different it is from XP or 2000 (or 95, 98, 3.1). The mouse thing is silly, and the argument about compatibility is just as silly for a Mac as it is for Ubuntu -- both office suites have Office compatibility. What a bunch of FUD and BS.

    Personally, I would not buy a Mac, I would buy a PC with Ubuntu, or a bare PC and put it on myself. But Microsoft's campaign is pretty stupid and pointless.

  57. Trevor_Pott Gold badge
    Badgers

    I should probably rant about something here.

    But you know what? I have pie. And a kitty. So I will just interrupt this thread to say: Mellow out guys! If there is trouble with mellowing out…I recommend pie. Also kitties.

    Badgers icon, because it never gets enough love around here.

  58. Bram
    Happy

    a load of comments...

    ...little commonsense

    lol

    Every computing device has managed to infuriate me no end, Macbook died was told it would cost me 500 to fix the logic board (mother board) and there is a bloody update for iworks and itunes every bleeding month that adds functionality I dont want and with a useless 60g HD is becoming a pain (I havent updated in well over a year get a new notice everytime I log on).

    When I had vista 64 retarded update stopped the pc booting and my web stopped working (never used it anyway) very time I start up the linux box I get so distracted changing/configuring/customising another feature that I don't actually do any work.

    The saving grace is the windows PC is usually free or very cheap to fix and can do everything (win7 rocks), the mac is v. simple to use and is fairly reliable and the linux box is a good challenge.

    Pen and Paper trumps all

  59. Penti

    The problem was what?

    Buy a external blu-ray player, tv-stick/receiver/tuner, USB memory stick reader (Who uses Sony M2's?), and use the modem supplied by the wireless provider, and Windows and you have BD playback, it's what people does on their pcs mostly (excluding BD) and a BD-player external that for connecting to the TV costs from $70 dollars now days.

    And I thought Microsoft in MS Office 2011 would fix all the compatibility problems and work fine for collaborating over sharepoint.

    PVR-software is included with the El gato TV-tuner. Also Roxio has some other features, so you can stream your eyetv recordings, or like supporting tivo2go. It's acceptable even if Microsoft's WMC is really good. You can also convert them for viewing on your iPhone/Pod if you got one of those. (Probably compatible with most other phones too).

This topic is closed for new posts.

Biting the hand that feeds IT © 1998–2021