iTunes disses doctorates It appears that PhDs have joined pornography and Flash on the list of things Apple doesn't approve of, if the experience of Reg reader Stuart Thomason is anything to go by. Stuart explains: It seems that Apple have something against those of us with higher degrees. My title on my iTunes account has always been 'Dr', but a …
Read the post, dude. I was saying that you can be a medical doctor in five years. I did 4 years undergrad and 4 years postgrad physics. Or were you assuming that all undergrad degrees are three years? Maybe that's true in the liberal arts, but I wouldn't be able to do a liberal arts PhD on public money anyway!
But, yes, I was funded by EPSRC (i.e. government) for 3 years, then employed as a "consultant" for a few months, then I just had to manage for the rest of the last year. And I'd say that 12,000 GBP a year to do a PhD isn't really excessive (I have to eat, after all). Or would you rather that funding was cut so we became a country devoid of new scientists and engineers, and end up dramatically lagging behind the rest of the developed world?
If I stagger into the ER with a heart attack/stroke/spork wound and I say, "Help! I need a doctor!" the person that shows up better damn well be a doctor in the medical sense of the word.
I'm pretty sure this is what Code Monkey is alluding to - that a doctor can be both a title and a function, but when push comes to shove, one is more important than the other.
One last thing... only a bachelor's degree!?! Good grief! That. Is. Terrifying. Here in the States, at least, a bit more is required...
In the US are slightly different to those in the UK, ask any US exchange student who has studied at a UK institution they'll make you aware of the difference. When my qualifications were ratified for use in the US my Scottish O grades were equated to a HS diploma and my Scottish H grades (lower than A levels) were equated to college credits. From what I've seen if you look at a student who has completed a Masters in the US then their level is roughly comparable to an Honours graduate from a UK University.
Fair enough. I wondered if it might be something like that... But still, someone mentioned needing 8 years for a PhD? Med school + internship is usually a minimum of 8 years here in the States, so I still don't think a PhD has any right to look down their nose at a "mere" MD :\ Well to be honest, I don't think a PhD has the right to look down their nose at anyone. With a good attitude, people may not feel inclined to read those three little letters as 'piled higher and deeper'.
...that is actually a _Doctor_ of medicine. Then it stops being an honorary title. At least in the UK. The US and UK systems are very different, it seems. We specialise earlier, and can start on a medical degree straight from age 18 (after A levels), which gives leads to a Bachelor of Medicine and Bachelor of Surgery (which is actually just one degree, taking 5 or 6 years I understand). I gather the US system requires an undergrad degree before starting at med school.
Anyway, there's no evidence that this guy was looking down his nose at anybody- he just wanted to be addressed by the correct title!
is not the same in the UK as in the US, MD is a postgraduate qualification undertaken by Bachelors of Medicine. It can also be the equivalent of a DSc, which is a higher degree than PhD and is awarded for significant contribution to an area of work, generally by the University in which you obtained your first degree.
Generally people who look down their noses walk into walls no matter what their qualification, I think the guy in question was merely miffed at being denied the right to use the title he had worked hard to attain. The assertion that medical doctors are only called doctor out of courtesy is not totally true, some have the required qualifications others don't. Personally I'd rather have a competent one no matter what their level of academic achievement. Speaking as one who has a PhD I can say I've met proportionately more prats with PhDs than without, whether that makes me a prat or not I don't know. I'm sure my colleagues probably have opinions on that matter.
Medical School = 3 years classes, + 1 year internship. Then you are a Dr., except...
Residency now = 4 years or more ...
interesting factoid, whenever they compute "average salaries" for physicians, they typically include the residents, who are getting paid relative peanuts, and work 80hrs + a week.
If you stagger into an ER and ask for a doctor, do you *really* think a non-medical doctor is going to say, 'what can I do for you?'
The criticism against non-medical doctors using the title is blatant, ignorant prejudice from people who don't understand what 'doctor' really means - someone who holds a doctorate*. And when they first learned that it doesn't just mean MDs, but also PhDs, they were probably embarrassed and had to take a contrary view and are too proud to acknowledge otherwise.
That said, I hold neither a doctorate nor a master's, bachelor's, or even associate's degree. Just a simple high school diploma with a few credits at university and quite a few years working at one with plenty of doctors, medical and not, whom I highly respect for their dedication and knowledge.
*Or, apparently in the UK, a medical bachelor! Which is news to me; and I've lived in London with a partner who's a nurse practitioner for about eight years!
"...nobody gives a shit" - well he does, clearly, or did you not notice that? Oh, wait; "now I'm all whiny and hurt" - you DID notice, you just forgot. You just can't hold one thought in your head for more than a single sentence (or perhaps it takes you so long to type so many words that you forget what you typed at the start). That's fine, completing primary school isn't for everyone.
Oh dear. Does it really matter if he's addressed as Mr or Dr? Surely the title matters very little, as long as the work that he does, actually reflects his qualifications? Or does Mr Thomason just want the world and his dog to know that he spent another four years at Uni, writing a paper based on the work of others?
Flames, because I'm likely to offend a great deal of people with more qualifications that me. So that's everybody with an ordinary degree and above I suppose!
".. So that's everybody with an ordinary degree and above .." (waves hello.)
When I recently bought something at Comet, on the customer details section of the screen (which I could see), the drop down menu for customer title included 'Lord'.
I can only assume that the back-office techies were having a bit of fun. Or, perhaps this was in response to Lord Somebody making a formal complaint about his title not being available when he went to buy something there.
I am a developer in a bank, and all our software has either a list with 200+ entries, or a free format field.
You really don't want a Monseigneur* to complain!
*a genuine choice, although admittedly a large number of them are military, as they can be a bit funny about that sort of thing.
I'm betting that you have a PhD, and that you had to frequently reference other peoples work, am I right?
I know many, many people who have earned their PhD's but don't act like it's a cardinal sin to be addressed as something other than Dr. People who feel that that this is a problem deserve nothing but our disdain.
As long as the work that person does, adequately reward them for the time they have spent studying, does the lack of a title on an on-line music store, really matter? Maybe for a certain type of person, it does...
... These smart people who spent years in their field studying everything that their is to know about it...
You know who they are, It's those with PhD's in Telecommunication that proved there *was* and antennagate...
Well now Apple can 't have a group of smart people like that using their devices now can they....
lol
:-D
...
...
Mines the one with the Diploma from Apple's "Internet Uni of phone design" in the inside pocket (I failed but got a Diploma and job there anyway...)
I'm sure Apple has removed this option because it doesn't give them any information about your gender. Gender information is important for targeted marketing, and as Apple is increasingly becoming a medium for marketing, they want to collect as much information about you as possible.
My iphone has only been connected to one computer for its entire life, yet about once a month - completely independently of any upgrades - iTunes decides that the two devices have never met, and so to synchronise I have to have GB of apps, music, pictures deleted from the iPhone and the exact same files reinstalled.
Nothing to do with getting a PhD, I'm just a little older and wiser each month, and will certainly never buy another device relying on iTunes synch again.
While I agree that iTunes is a steaming pile... I have to say that Microsoft Active Sync makes iTunes look like the pinnacle of software engineering.
I've just ditched my WinMo phone in favour of an iPhone - not because I'm a fanboi (actually I have a strong dislike for Apple and I'm well aware of the various problems iPhones have), but simply because I was sick of WinMo/ActiveSync and my preferred cellco didn't have any decent Android handsets.
PS. to show how crap ActiveSync is, it took me 2 days to extract my contacts of the WinMo phone without using Outlook. MS seem to go out of their way to make things difficult.
it's no conspiracy this is part of apple's new policy of asking for a little bit of card information on each new device, as this only happened recently, Stuart probably hadn't done it yet on that device.
This was introduced after the recent spate iTunes accounts being stolen. It just means you need more than a single password to buy loads of apps from anywhere in the world.
hope that helps doc
Does Miss not exist as a title anymore? If not, why bother with titles at all? Surely if you can't input your correct title there seems to be very little point in them.
And as far as I can tell "Dr" has been used in relation to a PhD for over a millenium, whereas I don't think the medical doctor term has been around quite that long. Therefore are it not the medical doctors who are the pretenders? Not that I care.
you probably have to have the Profs, Revs, Right Revs and more...
I did notice this iTunes change last week when rolling out a new iPhone to some scientists at work - not my choice - if I had my way they'd be getting Androids, but FruitCo Marketing has obviously worked and too many decision makers think that the only toy to have is an iPhone.
I (where possible) use the title Tn. (for technician). Except when I am in a Teaching role (I have formal qualifications for both) when I insist on Tr. When I am not operating in any qualified role I eschew a title.
It is rather fun responding to women colleagues who go on as if it is really edgy and modern using Ms. to remove their marital status from their title (admittedly a good thing as far as it goes) by responding that you have abandoned the entire gender designation! I'm never one to do things by half measures. :-D
I've just re-installed Windows 7 and all the files I backed up for iTunes have been completely ignored by the program. So I've had to re-create all of my playlists and re-copy all my videos, songs, apps, etc to my iPhone. Better still, it refuses to copy any of my Outlook appointments across, preferring instead to wipe them.
I suspect all this clunkiness is to encourage me to pay for MobileMe... As fantastic as I think the iPhone is, I think iTunes is one of the worst pieces of software ever written, and I haven't even got into all of the UI flaws and failings yet...
Why are there so many titles nowadays anyway? What's wrong with the standard Mr, Mrs, Ms and Miss? They give all the information you could need at that point anyway...
...in fact you could just live with Mr and Mrs...although the others would at least indicate a youth status.
. . . doesn't include all the information necessary.
Miss - a young unmarried girl
Mrs - a married lady
Ms - a divorced lady or spinster
Master - a young man
Mr - a man
Yes, even that isn't completely correct.
Titles are relevant, especially in the UK. Some are earnt (Dr., Gen., Flt Lt, Rev.) and some are given (Sir, Lord) and some are inherited (Earl, Baron).
People have a right to have their own title.
... you're OK to continue using Ms (as I assume you may currently).
"Miss, Ms Ms is fully acceptable when a woman (married or unmarried) wants to be called thus, or when it is not known for certain if she is Mrs or Miss. Ms is increasingly common in American and UK contexts, with Miss the exception..."
(http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/tools_and_services/specials/style_guide/article986731.ece)
For Scarlett O'Hara, I believe, 18 was, roughly, the ripe old age after which one would simply be too old and decrepit to manage snagging a beau. Tough standards indeed.
Through today's comments I have now learned two things:
-Apparently this distinction has still managed to exist in a few small minds?
-There's a difference between Ms. and Miss?? I honestly had know idea - I always assumed the trailing period meant one was short for the other (or is the trailing period and Americanism??). I can't believe I've managed survived this long, ignorant of the distinction.
I'm firmly in the get over yourself camp and I am entitled to use all sorts of letters after my name, but I have never bothered. Nor do I use Mr.
Indeed I don't quite understand why so many forms ask for a title. Titles like Mr. are traditionally bestowed upon you by others as a mark of respect. To demand to be called Mr. (or indeed Dr.) is somehwhat boorish. Traditionally, were it necessary to use your title perhaps to avoide confusion you may use it as a suffix, for example Emily Smith (Miss.)
Jeremy Hilary Boob. Phud
Having taken a sojourn into the world of alternative "medicine" I've seen my share of doctors without any medical qualifications beyond a first-aid course giving medical advice (the most glaring was a PhD in geology giving advice on psychiatric treatment). Besides, the qualifications for calling yourself Dr. might vary too much between countries to be actual information. I know that locally PhD is not nearly enough to add two letters + punctuation to your name and even if you achieve the doctorate you have to add "Scient" or some other qualifier, unless you're a medical doctor [0]. So for once Apple might not be entirely in the wrong here. YMMV.
[0]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Medicinae_%28Danish_and_Norwegian_degree%29
I work in a lab and we've more PhD's/Dr's than you can shake a stick at (I'm not one of them only being a lowly M.Sc) Most of them have the intelligence of a coat hanger, but that's another story.
Any road up a few years back we had a new PA for the director of the lab start, and she happened to be married to a local MP who had just retired and being stuck in the house of Lords, so she was a Lady. She happens to be the most down to earth Aussie you'll come across. Anyway one of our more pompous boffins went to see her and tore her off a strip as she didn't call him Dr when sepaking to him, she came back with a classic put down informing him that he in future he should refer to her as Lady, that shut the T*at up!
There are circumstances where it could be important to have "Dr." or "PhD" stuck on your name. On a professional conference nametag, for instance. Or on your ID if you work at a university or medical school, especially if every other PhD's ID says 'PhD'. Or perhaps on your subscription to a journal in your field. Or perhaps even when you order something work-related, like a box of ketamine vials for the lab, since having a medical license is important information in such orders.
But I fail to see why it should matter that a faceless credit card billing database for a consumer retailer of music, TV shows, and movies fails to respect your autoritah. Your advanced degree means nothing in that context, so who cares.
It's not like the gnomes at Apple are chortling in their cubicles over forcing you to give up your title and join the plebes.
If your CC billing info says Dr, and someone submits a transaction with Mr that's a no match. And yes, a system that requires a title ought to include all the honorifics it might encounter.
Dumb fuckin' cube monkeys. Piss off and finish updating your hardcoded VAT numbers.
Err... no. My wife's a medic, and frequently uses "Mrs" and "Dr" interchangeably, and has never had a problem. The billing cube/code monkeys aren't quite that dumb.
Not so sure about the "jealous and ignorant f***tards" either. In my industry, the PhD's joined 3 years late and had a lot of catching up to do. I don't recall ever meeting a PhD who insisted on being called "Doctor"; most of them would have died of shame first. Times may have changed, of course.
Apparently this is just an apocryphal version of the real report, but it's said that one of the examiners to whom Wittgenstein submitted the Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus as his PhD thesis was one of the old school who thought of the ScD as the gold standard and the PhD as a feeble recent import from the states, and wrote in the report "The Tractatus is a work of genius, but otherwise satisfies the requirement for the PhD".
...is presumably that if you are going to ask for a title then it should be a free-form text field, not a drop-down list. Have these people never heard of i18n?
It's a bit like having a drop-down list for your user's given name, and labeling it "Christian name" just to rub the foreigners' noses in it.
I have come across an IT manager for a medium sized manufacturing business who had his full title a la Rimmer* in his email signature
the day he started work there when the other half forwarded an email from him asking what it meant.
i told her he was a sanctimonious twat with a Napoleon complex, which was clearly born out when after 2 weeks, the internet was locked down tighter than a submissive's nipple clamp, and scunthorpe disappeared from the map.
also any emails containing the letters 'xx' were designated as spam. this was caught by one of the engineers working at the company whose name was Petroxx who suddenly stopped getting any email whatsoever.
* Arnold Judas Rimmer Bsc Ssc ("Bronze swimming certificate" and "Silver swimming certificate")
Personally I insist that people refer to me as "The Right Reverend Doctor" based on my Doctor of Divinity from the Church of Universal Life that I got for my birthday a few years ago. If I recall correctly, it has the same legal status as any other Doctorate of Divinity, at least in the United States.
Bless you all,
The Right Reverend Doctor Phil (no, not the TV Doctor Phil)
*pint, the holy sacrament, of course
HI, ok you should know that a PhD makes you an expert in your particular field and should be respected by Apple and others in his field. Dr is be an option in your title. But to make it clear you should add the PhD after your name so people don't think you area MD. Also I have a bias when a man of God has a doctorate. It should be Pastor, Reverend, etc Sam Jones Phd not Dr Sam Jones. In this case it need to show you are a Man of God first and that you have a degree in theology, etc. You are not suppose to put Dr Sam Jones Phd unless you have two doctorates like Sam Jones MD Phd FACC etc. To all you are bias against someone being called doctor without an MD. Grow up and learn some respect and manners. Read a book on etiquette.(manners)
To be honest I use my title on my credit cards to confound shopkeepers (I am hairy, stocky and tattooed and resemble a homeless person).
I do not use my title of Dr. at the "Doctors", I use Mr.
I do not use my title of Dr when I meet people (either service providers or socially), I use Mark, which is my name.
I never use my title on my passport.
I always use my title around conferences and at the university where I work. That way people know who to talk to about stuff.
I sometimes use my title if I am being fucked over (i.e. a legal matter, or a shit service provider etc), as somehow they think it makes me more respectful to have a D.Phil, but only if I really think they are in the wrong, otherwise I am Mark.
To those who try and devalue those with doctorates, I have published a number of papers on medical research which may go towards helping understand disease in the future, although as I research to such a fundamental level, any practical applications will probably be researched by a medical doctor (who will then take all of the credit).
I do not know everything about biochemistry, but I obviously know more than most people in the world about the particular sub-field that I research.
I do not think that i am better than anyone else, but to say that someone with a Ph.D is someone who stayed on at school longer is moronic. At least in my field, the people offering Ph.D studentships are highly selective. If you doubt this, or like one or two of the posters here seem jealous, please feel free to go and get your own one if you have the brains and character to do so. It's tough, exhausting, demanding and financially crippling work. I earned this, and all of my training took a year longer than a MD.
As we have a med-school at the university, I sometimes have to help teach med students some of the more demanding aspects of their field (like biochemistry). I am surprised how many of them can't even distinguish Moles from molarity or calculate pH. Most of them are just hoorah henries with the right parental income. We got here on merit alone.
Non-story though this is, it highlights yet again the UK's hatred of intelligence. Even among the professional IT crowd.
What's wrong with somebody wanting to use their correct title? If they insisted on "Miss" or "Mrs", and got rid of "Ms", would people be so quick to slag off women who want to call themselves "Ms"?
A PhD entails a lot of work, and has to be considered a worthy addition to the sum of human knowledge in order to be granted. Personally I would be proud to put those two letters in front of my name, and I have no problem respecting those who do for their notable achievement, just as I respect people who wear their wedding ring or display dancing trophies on their mantlepiece.
Obviously the above doesn't apply to Gillian McKeith.
It's a stupid form. Titles are social conventions that vary widely; by having a title field at *all* you're just opening yourself up to problems. What if I claim some title you don't offer? (Inferring from the story, the previous options included Mr, Mrs, Ms and Dr, but there's more than that).
The only sensible way of handling names is a single field, titled Name, which is free text entry (with a fairly generous character limit if you're worried about people pasting 50MB of crap into it or whatever). If you try to be more 'clever' than that, you're only setting yourself up for a fall.
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