Sweet, sweet karma.
Well done Nokia and Motorola. I love it!
Motorola is taking advantage of the iPhone 4 'Death Grip' debacle by kicking Apple when it's down: the Droid maker ran a full-page ad in Wednesday's New York Times ridiculing the Jobsian handset's antenna problems. In the advert — underneath a photo of Motorola's upcoming Droid X, complete with the obligatory comely lass — is …
Remember how this started -- Job's arrogant remark which, in effect, called the world a bunch of dolts for not knowing how to hold a 'phone. So, karma back on Apple from that standpoint.
You seemingly missed my touch of irony too --- something difficult to get across in a blog. Competitors "reveling" in others misfortunes is nothing new and it's often fun to see large corporations show a bit of humo(u)r.
The most memorable example for me was in about 2001 when British Airways was having trouble pivoting the London Eye up into position. The next day, Virgin Atlantic had an aerostat floating above the Thames with the message "BA, Can't Get It Up".
use a coating with the correct dialectric coefficient wouldn't it?
Seems a bit like saying 'what a stupid idea to use a knife and fork to eat with. If you use a Stanley knife you will slice your tongue to bits'.
I think you were just trying to show off that you knew what a dialectric coefficient is. Fair play - I have no idea!
competitors and detractors have been waiting impatiently for Jobs & Co to make a major misstep. And that time may have arrived.
you obviously didn't go on to read the rest of the review then, even with the problem, the reviewer wouldn't get anything else but an iPhone, because it is that far ahead of the Android fragmentation mess.. oh but wait for the droid "update" in late summer... you mean to make it somewhat closer to the speed of the iPhone???? what happens when the iPhone gets an update in late summer?
his judgement that even while the death grip was employed, it still got better reception than other phones. and with a case, unbelievable, reception... and battery life in all situations...
so much for a misstep... have fun with that Droid X with a Battery that lasts about to half way through breakfast.
arse he maybe, Apple is a totally scummy (sp?) company, but a genius he defo is & would I work for him, hmm not likely . . would I enjoy his company over dinner? of course I would !
and I've said before on here - he is still a human being and I wish him good health, really I do
but I will NEVER buy an Apple product and I hate with vengeance that utter cr*p that is iTunes - please don't tell me that Apple know how to write software, OK?
"From my day of testing, I've determined that the iPhone 4 performs much better than the 3GS in situations where signal is very low, at -113 dBm (1 bar). Previously, dropping this low all but guaranteed that calls would drop, fail to be placed, and data would no longer be transacted at all. I can honestly say that I've never held onto so many calls and data simultaneously on 1 bar at -113 dBm as I have with the iPhone 4, so it's readily apparent that the new baseband hardware is much more sensitive compared to what was in the 3GS. The difference is that reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use.
With my bumper case on, I made it further into dead zones than ever before, and into marginal areas that would always drop calls without any problems at all. It's amazing really to experience the difference in sensitivity the iPhone 4 brings compared to the 3GS, and issues from holding the phone aside, reception is absolutely definitely improved. I felt like I was going places no iPhone had ever gone before. There's no doubt in my mind this iPhone gets the best cellular reception yet, even though measured signal is lower than the 3GS."
This is from the same Anandtech article you quoted. Apple may have exposed its underbelly here, but things are not that easy. The antenna seems to works both very good and very badly, depending how you hold the phone.
Did you see how animated Jobs was when he went to the AllThingsD thing? I love the way he has tried to subtly brush this under the carpet. What a superb opportunity for Motorola to have a dig.
I love Apple, but only when they get things right. They made the back glass, it shatters very easily (see the iFixIt Youtube video!), probably because if it was metal it would get too hot. Without a case, this phone will break. (Unlike previous iPhones which are very relisilient)
Steve Jobs has really messed up with the iPhone 4. I mean, I probably will still get one. But for the first time in four years, I'm tempted to 'unswitch' from Apple - they are taking the piss. With this issue and the pricing of the Mac Mini etc.
oh yeah, really easily, if you drop it 4 times from 4 feet, onto rough concrete.
Compared to the countless times I've seen drunk people fall over, drop phone in the process and have it break into several pieces, never to work again.
I don't think I've ever seen this happen to an iPhone, but then again, I don't tend to pay much attention to what handset other people are using. (I just like to laugh at the drunks trying to find all the pieces)
Interesting what you claim, I saw my first broken iPhone 2 weeks after a friend got it. It took one drop to shatter it, and his insurance replacement now lives in a case. I've had many phones over the years, the only Nokia I ever managed to break was my 5110, and the glass broke when I accidentally drove my car over it (seriously). The phone still worked, and carried on working until I got it exchanged by insurance.
Of course, I've broken many Blackberries and my only Sony Erikson phone.
I suggest you look up what happens when you put glass down on a glass surface, and then be super careful with your iPhone 4.
You are the perfect example of why large companies can get away with huge flaws in their products.
After going on about how Apple have messed up and telling us about the device's faults you then go on to say you'll probably still get one.
WTF? WHY? Brand loyalty? Why do people continually pay for terrible products, it only reinforces the point-of-view that companies can put out this garbage without any need to care about the user.
You, sir, are a sucker.
As always the Apple fanbois and paid PR / AC’s are missing the point.
It doesn't matter how well it does anything else, it's a phone first and foremost so if it loses reception because of a design flaw then it's faulty and not fit for purpose.
This applies even if without the antenna covered it can pick up calls from Mars.
With you here - I've been a fan (I don't go as far as 'fanboi' though) of the iphone since they first came out, but until this antenna business is sorted, I'm not going anywhere near iphone4.
As you say - if a phone can't hold a reliable signal while making calls (left or right handed), that's pretty f*ed up. And Job's comments don't help. "Hold it another way". Yeah sure...
Just do the recall already, and put your hand up to it. You'll lose "face" doing that, than perpetuating the denial.
Oh and you've got 3 months to do it - I'll be out of contract by then, and Android's looking better by the minute.
Not strictly true. I agree that it may be unfit for purpose, but the 'phone' moniker is a name only. Most people I know with iPhones (or other smartphones for that matter) never mention how good the device is at making calls - they ALWAYS laud the other extensive features, such as camera, screen, media player, games, wifi connectivity, etc. To be honest, I rarely use my mobile as an actual phone. What I'd really like is a top-flight digital camera that I can text and maybe call on!!!
In reality, this whole iPhone 4 debacle will do very little to damage Apple. They will ride it out, do what's needed and then wait for the next must-have product to make them a fortune again. Whatever you may think of them, Apple do what they do very well. And there are always consumers who are willing to part with their hard-earned (as there are in most markets).
"And Job's comments don't help. "Hold it another way". Yeah sure..."
I had a television once that didn't get a picture - until I turned it around and stopped looking at the back of the box.
How fucking retarded do you have to be to grip the phone in the way that covers the antenna anyway? Sheesh.
I tried to hold a variety of phones by the lower left hand corener and it always resulted in either:
a, sore fingers from holding the phone strangely
b, inability to get the phone to my ear
c, inability to pick up my voice since my hand was int he way of the mic
So how so many people have managed it "in the wild" is a mystery!
As a left hander, it's remarkably easy to cover that bottom corner with your palm or the inside length of your thumb, rather than individual fingers.
I think the point that's so transparently passed you by is that it's the antenna placement/grounding protection that's retarded here...not the method of grasping. Unless you're an octopus or something.
All the industrial designers back in my day at uni had it drummed into them many times - ergonomics first, function second, cosmetics third. Obviously the future Apple designers were off drinking during that class.
If I want a top flight digital camera then I will pull my top flight digital camera out of the bag.
If I want to make a phone call then I will use a phone.
The list goes on.
A Unix bod once told me that a good application was one that did one thing only and did that one thing well. He's right.
If I want to use a phone then I will grab my crappy old phone which I have had for almost ten years and make a call on it. It works. If I want to look at some code or analyse a database the last thing I would want to do is to ever think to myself "I know, I will use my phone."
When I am in the mountains i make sure that I have a map and compass. I have used a map and compass for ever and have never take a step wrong. I would not wish to use a mobile phone.
So let's take it back a bit. If I am out there in, say, Snowdonia taking landscapes I wouldn't reach for a mobile phone. I'd reach for my DSLR and tripod. If I wanted to call home to say that I got it then, yes, a phone would be useful.
But really, all this hoopla about all these phones, be they Apple, Sony or whatever, is utter nonsense. It's snake oil gone mad.
It's pretty basic science.
Humans aren't great at being transparent to passing electromagnetic frequencies. If they were, X-rays wouldn't be of any bloody use!
I've had *exactly* the same reception problems with my tuppence-ha'penny Nokia 2630. It's not unique to bloody iPhones. If anything, Apple's phone does at least seem to be a bit more *honest* about its signal strength, which is more than any of the Nokias I've owned.
Frankly, given the reports of the vastly improved reception and better battery life, I'd rather buy an iPhone 4 than any of the tat Motorola have been churning out of late.
Cos your clearly taking some impressive shit!
"vastly improved reception" - improved over what exactly the level of reception you get when using a dead chicken as a telephone?
The iPhone 4 ariel is an elementary design fault, even hard core apple fans I know are not happy with it, its not a problem that hits other phones in the same way for the simple reason that other phones have proper ariels and not a couple of bits of paperclip tucked on the side!
Having owned Nokia, Samsung, Motorola, Palm, Blackberry, HTC and god knows what other phones over the years I can happily say that none of them require me to put the phone on a table and shout at it to get a signal.
If Apple are as "honest" as you seem to say why are they spinning away about this issue and making claims that dont stand up about other manufacturers suffering the same problem?
Paris - More honest than the fanboi it seems!
Where did anyone say that Apple is excused? Please point it out.
And are you saying that your reaction (and others on here) to the other manufacturers with this same problem was the same? Did you go on forums and attack them? How many posts on the Toyota problem?
Seems a desperate and pathetic attempt to paint Apple more wrong than others. Although that is a popular game on el reg - sheep running around frolicking and following each other around attacking anything remotely not 100% anti-Apple.
"Where did anyone say that Apple is excused?"
I am assuming you are just jumping to conclusions as it is an almost constant theme on this issue.
Obviously you are in such a need to dismiss my argument you failed to read it correctly.
If you learn some comprehension you will see that I equated the problem and did not rate one over the other.
The only thing pathetic is the relentless defence of the iPhone by people like yourself who cannot accept reality.
speaking form a purely personal standpoint the 2 issues i have with iPPLE are
a> jobs is a cock
b> they symbolise the style over content\form over function model that lies between most things that i dispise.
given this i think you will understand my glee at
a> them fucking up the function
b> jobs being a cock about it and telling his customers it's their fault.
or perhaps you are just reading this wrong :D
Now before you all start flaming me, let me explain:
* iPhone 4 starts to near completion - iOS is ready, internals assembled, awaiting testing on antenna.
* Engineer is unchained from his Cupertino dungeon for an antenna strength field test.
* Revelling in his new found freedom, he is overwhelmed by strange sensations such as sunlight and the lack of whips.
* He seeks refreshment at a nearby tent and after having the tiniest sip of beer, he is immediately rendered unconcscious.
* A nearby Apple fanboi recognises the burning brand mark on the engineer's arm and immediately sets about rifling through his pockets, discovering the iPhone prototype.
* Absconding with his ill-gotten gain, he starts whoring the phone out to various tech blogs, eventually striking gold with the Apple sycophants otherwise known as Gizmodo.
* Various underhand dealings take place, resulting in transfers of money and the unfinished prototype, otherwise known as selling stolen goods.
* Meanwhile, Mount Jobs erupts - they still don't have any feedback on the antenna performance and the sweatshops, er, manufacturing lines in China are almost ready to start production.
* Gizmodo proudly announces, like a child showing you a full potty: "LOOK MA WE HAZ NU iPHONEZ!"
* More underhand dealings take place and Jason Chen's front door gets kicked in by the cops.
* Unholy father and unnatural spawn are finally reunited but Apple run out of time for product testing and the prototype gets shipped out to China.
* Engineer also shipped out to China to work at Foxcomm, where he is quoted as enjoying the relaxed and friendly working environment and the softer whips the overseers use.
* iPhone 4 launch day arrives and the prototype is shipped to Apple's flagship store. None of the others have actually been made yet in order to simulate stock shortages.
* Early adopter starts whining about antenna reception.
So there you have it - how one techblog's enthusiasm for a product caused said product to fail miserably!
I wouldn't be surprised if you aren't far from the truth. I remember the Reg ran a story a while back suggesting that Apple had more than one iPhone 4 prototype and that the one stolen was a higher spec prototype than the others.
The leak might have forced Apple's hand into shipping a device they weren't ready to sell. The world expected the glass backed iPhone 4 with front facing camera so they had to give it to them, rather than going back to the drawing board or having time to engineer a solution. It would certainly explain why Apple had bumpers on the shelves in time for launch and why FaceTime is WiFi only.
Anyway, conspiracy theories aside, I've not really had any problems with signal on my iPhone 4 except when I try to replicate the problem! Generally I don't hold it in the way that causes the problem (and that's not because I'm holding it the way Steve tells me to, it's just my hand doesn't cover the bottom left when I hold mine).
The Gizmodo Iphone 4 prototype DID have a plastic bumper case on it. So perhaps Jobs and his sycophants knew all along that this was necessary in order to actually "use" the phone . Alternatively, perhaps their penchant for top-secret field testing with this camouflage coating did not allow them to discover the folly of their crappy Iphone 4 antenna design...combined with their new admission that they were misrepresenting the actual signal strength by showing too many bars on the signal strength display.
What a well-run, reliable company.
"This applies even if without the antenna covered it can pick up calls from Mars."
If this thing has a really good reception except when I grip it in a certain way with sweaty hands I would happily either avoid gripping it this way in badly covered areas or just install a case/bumper.
This would be different if it had just average reception which gets only worse if you hold it in the wrong way, but this doesn't seem to be the case.
Curiously, the same Anandtech article states that the WiFi radio gets a boost of +10dB if you grip the WiFi-antenna part of the frame. Being able to squeeze better reception out of a phone by touching it in certain ways somehow appeals to my geek mind ;-)
Hey, it's a magic device after all. So just learn your magic grip, will you?
Personally, I think the v3i was from a form factor perspective the best phone ever made. It was exactly the right size, shape and weight, had a removable (read: changeable) battery and worked quite well, and as a flip phone it was also discreet - it wasn't announcing to all and sundry who had just emailed/SMS-ed or called you like iPhones and other almost-smart phones.
The only problem was the user interface, "Joe Bloggs" came up twice if he had been so bold to have two separate numbers, WTF?
But from a physical point of view, I have not found a phone format that approached perfection so well. I still have two..
oh dear oh dear.
The reason jobs 'brushed it under the carpet' is because the antenna'problem' is a marketing ruse to get customers to buy accessories - in this case, cases. The case is the obvious solution to the problem and Apple will make almost as much margin on a cheaply-manufactured piece of branded rubber as they will from the costly-to-manufacture handset.
I reluctantly hold my hands up - yet again - to Apple's genius.
Is Apple's response to internal complaints the same as it is to outside ones? If so then this might have come up in testing, but the small number of people involved could be individually trained to hold the handset 'correctly'. Something that's not possible with a few million customers.
The problem with getting nice design with complicated modern products, where more than one person has to do the work, is that it's very hard to do because so many people are sticking their oar in. Even worse, on a flagship product, because marketing and management feel they have to make a 'useful contribution'. So if you, as the chief designer' want to get your stamp on the device, you have to be a thick-skinned, egomaniac, control-freak with vicious corporate infighting skills. Otherwise your beautiful design will die by a thousand cuts from the committee.
This is brilliant until you screw up. Then your skills of overriding criticism and not being diverted from your overall design goals become serious liabilities. Unless you're some kind of saintly paragon of virtue who can be both a humble listener and and a single-minded follower of design purity simultaneously...
haha makes me laugh that apples getten all this abuse from there shoddy design and antenna problems lol. nice one motorola i must say i quite like there droid x looks a beast as for the iphone haha its for sad little fanboys and guess what when people give hate messages about apples everyone goes barmy.which shows this world is full of fanboys. so nice one motorola for posting that message about using your phone any way and a slight reply to peoples comments stfu about my messages il post how i want
"There's nothing Apple nor anyone else can do to get around physics, plain and simple."
Coating the antenna = get around the pesky physics of us "ugly bags of mostly water" screwing up the signal
@Thomas 4 - Nice idea, but the prototype had a 3G case on it didn't it? Pretty crappy way to test the signal strength, by using a non-default situation - apple engineering at its best.
Nokia and Motorola criticising Apple for producing a phone with a faulty design..
Let's look at their records..
Nokia: N95. 1st Gen crashed regularly. The phone was also rather power hungry, and in later firmware versions could hang for several seconds. A lot of the problems were fixed in firmware, but the battery life was still not good and charging via USB involved *buying* a special adaptor.
Motorola: Various phones. Everyone I know who has had a motorola had signal problems, and short battery life. My Motorola (timeport) didn't even survive the first year of use intact. Despite me being careful with it, and keeping it in a case when not in use, it disintigrated after 11 months of use. Despite careful charging, the battery life was down to one hour standby from a full charge.
I have an iPhone 3G. It's 17 months old now, and while it's life has not been entirely problem free (it has been known to die and take several minutes to come back to life), it is still a reliable phone. I still get as good a battery life as I did when I first got the phone. It doesn't crash often (although I do often install and uninstall different apps, and make regular use of those apps).
I fully intend to get an iPhone 4 when my contract finishes. Will the antenna problem affect me? Apparently not. I tend not to use any phone without a case. The last time I owned a phone with a large touch screen (a Sony Ericsson P800) and didn't have a case for it, the screen ended up shattered.
For the sake of well-rounded coverage (something that seems to be discarded on El Reg whenever Apple or Google are involved) here's AnandTech's conclusion on the iPhone 4:
"The iPhone 4 is a tremendous improvement over the previous phones from Apple. Battery life alone is enough to sell a brand new notebook, there's no reason the same shouldn't apply for a smartphone. Being able to deliver real world battery life use of between 5.5 and 10 hours on a single charge is quite impressive. And if you aren't using the phone nonstop? Expect even longer battery life.
On top of the battery life improvements Apple finally plays catch up and surpasses the technological advancements in its Android competitors. The 4's camera is as good as it gets today and the screen is a beauty."
It decidedly does work as a phone, and those who claim otherwise have - ironically enough - fallen into a warp of delusion created by the interplay of the (equally on both sides) ridiculous point-counterpoint hyperbole (it's the magicalest object ever! vs it doesn't even work as a phone!) spewing out of both Apple and the media.
To those that seem to indicate that holding the phone in the way that causes a problem is unnatural then you are mistaken. I'm right handed and use my iPhone in the fashion that would be a problem today. I am not saying that I am typical but it is what comes natural to me.
If this is really a problem, then its a poor show on Apple's part but that really is still in question. Certainly there is indication that the bars go down but counter arguments say that actually the new phone has better reception then the previous reception.
I dont know and will likely find out next week when my collegue gets his new 4 and we can compare it side by side with my current one. But then that will only be half the story as we will only compare iphone vs iphone. Not iphone against a competitor.
I think most of us iPhone "fanbois" really couldnt give a crap. We like the devices. We dont need to keep justifying why we like them. If you like your Android phone or PC phone, good for you I wont try to beat you down. I dont even like the Apple culture but for me , my iPhone works as a phone and a PDA. I suspect I will like the 4th gen even more ......
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