back to article Mozilla man blasts Apple and Google for HTML5 abuse

Mozilla open source evangelist Chris Blizzard has unloaded on both Apple and Google for abusing the HTML5 moniker, confusing netizens everywhere, and undermining the slow march towards truly open web standards. Blizzard is so peeved at Apple and Google that he even goes so far as to lavish praise on Microsoft for its belated …


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  1. Anonymous Coward

    Nothing to see here...

    All this rowing is one reason why, as a web developer, I'm ignoring HTML5 completely until it's released as a stable standard and is adopted properly by all the mainstream browsers.

    Until then, it's just a way of using up my valuable time without any discernable benefit.

    1. Adam Nealis

      I'm ignoring HTML5

      "All this rowing is one reason why, as a web developer, I'm ignoring HTML5 completely until it's released as a stable standard and is adopted properly by all the mainstream browsers."

      Then you will never do any HTML 5 development. People are very young or have short memories. There has always been inconsistent implementation of HTML standards.

    2. John F***ing Stepp


      We have a big book that has penciled in 'will not work' comments.

      The graphite content is pretty big.

      We have actually only got to three.

      Thing is, every thing we do has to work cross browser.

      Every time.

      So it does not matter if Apple gets it right.

      It does not matter if IE is close.

      Everyone must agree if we can even attempt it.

      So hello, MS, MAC,LINUX; you people kinda suck at programming.

  2. Steve Roper
    Jobs Horns

    Once again

    Apple shows its true colours. Isn't it funny how things are relative, even degrees of "evil"? People no doubt thought Napoleon was evil until Stalin came along. I've been an avowed Microsoft-hater for years, but next to Apple they look like charity queens - and I can't believe I'm actually warming to them. Just a little bit, mind you - they still need to be watched - but seeing Apple's behaviour these past couple of years has kinda put things in perspective!

    OK, let the Apple thread wars commence... Form a firing line, people, let's move! Light 'em up!

    1. John Lilburne

      Where were you in the mid 80s

      Back then it was Apple that were Stalin, Pol Pot, Hitler, Margeret Thatcher, and Ronald Reagan all rolled into one. Where they shoved their weight around suing small companies to deter anyone else from developing WIMP interfaces. Tried to make all spreadsheet programs other than visicalc illegal, ripped off apps from small developers and then sued them 'because the apps looked the same'.

      Seems that mid 90s someone thwacked a bunch of twonks upside the head and a reality distortion bubble swallowed them all up.

  3. j88per


    I think its funny that the tech world is going absolutely crazy over HTML5, what it is, what it isn't, and how it's not really what its advertised as. The reality is that the world doesn't give a rats arse one way or another. All the 'world' cares is can they see the sites they visit. Do the news sites work? does it look ok?

    Outside of tech, and specifically web tech, no one cares. The nightly news isn't covering HTML5, magazines aren't writing in depth articles about it unless they are web tech rags.

    I suppose irony could be called out that we have wars going on around the world, people dying for a cause and the US still as an invasion force in a foreign nation. We have a huge oil slick in the gulf of Mexico that's still effing leaking.

    But, holy shit, HTML5 is ONLY supported by who? I'm sorry, it just doesn't seem all that important.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward


      You're on this site, reading this article, and posting a fairly lengthy post on the subject. Why not practice what you preach & send a can of beans to Africa or something instead? Oh yeah, you're just posturing. All you so-superior "why you discussing this" whiners just give this tired crap up already - we're on to you.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        He has a point

        Not so mush why discuss this, but WTF are people getting so angry about a technology, and saying this and that is the way forward, and people are clamering to use such and such, but hate something else when the "people" mostly coulden't give a fuck. I know I don't. I'm not a web designer, I'm not a programer, Im an enginneer, and I don't care as long as I can use the internet and what I want to read is there.

        For 99.9% of the stuff I do HTML works fine. I don't need video or animation or lots of other stuff, and most of what I see using that stuff is advertising.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward


          It's the bullshit, rather than the technology that's annoying people. This recent stream of super-cynical, incredibly insulting marketing ploys pumped out by big tech is starting to grate. Yes, Jobs is right, there are plenty of morons that will suck it up and ask for more. However, there will inevitably be a backlash from those in the know and those that can recognise plain ol' mass manipulation.

          1. Gene

            In which case, Jobs wins because...

            ...he's going with the vast majority. Those in the know = <1%

    2. This post has been deleted by its author

  4. Anonymous Coward

    Standards fail

    Apple's HTML 5 site is so lame that one of the demos (VR) not only requires Safari, but Safari running on Apple hardware!

    1. Anonymous Coward

      Oh my gawd, call the police, a demo has restrictions

      You've got to be kidding - you expect a demo to act fully functional?

      But, I guess if your logic is always, "find fault with Apple," then comments like yours will always be.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Dead Vulture


    Dammit, at this rate we'll never kill flash once and for all.

    1. Shakje

      If your name was Ming

      that sentence would be perfect.

  6. rahul

    Hey, the Apple Gallery works on FireFox!

    ...all you need to do is enable user-agent switcher, and change it to show iPhone OS 3...

    Which means that it is standards compliant... except that Apple has decided a "showcase" for Safari.

  7. Tom Harvey

    Descriptive text goes here

    HTML 5 is quickly becoming as technically descriptive a term as "Web2.0" was from the start. This is just another example of the industry scrabbling to make a 3.0

    1. austin cheney

      They did a very long time ago

      The technologists, the actual smart people, came up with such a thing as a Web 3.0. It was called the semantic web. It is largely ignored by an industry whose only means of revenue is advertising. In this case all that matters to business is that traffic is being generated. Why risk screwing that up by moving the technologies forward and doing right by the technology?

  8. Crazy Operations Guy

    What has this world come to?

    Microsoft supported by an Open-Source project leader? Microsoft helping standards?

    I wish that software companies would stop saying that they support "HTML5" until it is actually a damn standard, until then they should refer to it as "provisional" or the like. I have seen so many problems arise when companies adopt "Standards" too early and when it becomes finalized, it all blows up.

  9. Lou Gosselin

    Valid Points

    Don't know who he is, but Chris Blizzard has some valid points.

  10. austin cheney


    Mozilla is just as fast to jump on the HTML5 bandwagon as everybody else. They too call it a standard and claim standards support. HTML5 is not a standard. This is what happens when idiots jump the gun. The purpose of standards is conformance in the industry. HTML5 is not a standard so should anybody really be surprised that there is no conformance? Microsoft will only end up making things worse by jumping the gun, even if later in the game than everybody else. This is the kind of circus you get when there are no adults driving the bus and when anybody who disagrees that premature adoption of HTML5 as a holy prophecy gets shut up and flamed.

    HTML5 is rapidly becoming a failure and its only going to get worse.

  11. Jeremy 2


    "If you’re not on Safari, then Fuck You."

    Well, not quite. I appreciate it's a tad beyond Joe Bloggs' know-how and it's still a blatant trick to put a prompt in front of people to try and bag a few Safari 5 downloads but change your useragent to:

    Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10_5_8; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.16 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0 Safari/533.1

    in any other browser, reload the page and you're in. You get quite an interesting message if you attempt to view the first HTML5 example (the video one) on Windows in Firefox (or presumably any other non-Mac OS/Safari combo):

    "This demo contains H.264 video. Windows users can download QuickTime to enable support for this industry-standard format."

    What was that Apple were saying about open standards?

  12. Eponymous Howard
    Thumb Down

    Do I detect...

    ....the whine caused by a browser being caned by webkit?

    1. M Gale

      HTML5 Showcase doesn't work in Konqueror either.. know, that other webkit-powered browser?

      Doesn't show the "you need Safari" overlay properly either.

      What was that about webkit?

  13. sleepy

    Blizzard is deliberately missing the point

    These demos showcase what standard compliant HTML5 can do, and hence what the web could look like if all browsers were fully compliant. But browsers are mostly not fully compliant, so for now, you can see what it would look like using Safari.

    1. Preacher
      Jobs Horns

      hook, line, etc

      The point you've completely failed to grasp is these demos DON'T showcase what HTML5 can do, they show (for the most part) what CSS3 can do. Apple is blurring the lines by suggesting CSS3 is part of HTML5, it's not.

      1. The First Dave


        Anyone who knows the difference between HTML5 and CSS3 will already understand what Apple is really saying, whereas those who don't know the difference _might_ at least understand that HTML5 = next generation of web browsers. This litmus test clearly proves that this Blizzard chap is in the latter camp.

        Bigging up Microsoft for doing the bare minimum also doesn't give his credentials much of a boost.

    2. Trygve

      actually, the point is...

      that tech dweebs like Blizzard have an independent existence only until someone smells a chance to make a few bucks out of whatever tech they spend their time pontificating about.

      Once a multi-billion tech corp arrives on the scene, tech dweeb instantly becomes a tiny smear on the windshield as a huge truck gets driven straight through his life's work. Doesn't matter if it's Apple, Google, MS, Oracle or all of them, they climb on the gravy train while tech dweeb gets on the waaahmbulance. In the real world 'standards' exist only as a marketing/sales tools, unless proper engineering is involved - and weborrhea 2.5 doesn't count as engineering.

      And if Blizzard believes that MS as a corp shares his view of standards, he's deluded. It's a defensive strategy as they desperately try to keep others from eating their lunch. If MS ever get out of 'panicky reaction' mode on the web, it'll be 'embrace, extend, extinguish' from them too.

    3. lucmars

      Yes, but not really

      The real missed point is that all this fuzz aims to spread Safari a little more onto PC (and Quicktime in case you don't have already an iPod-iTunes). For the rest the points are valid as well as the Apple's demo isn't fully HTML5. Otherwise, why offering such a demo locked to Safari?

  14. Anonymous Coward

    HTML5? Pah!

    Just another buzzword for know-it-all, know-nothing managers and PR types to bandy about in a sad desperate attempt to appear as though they are in the zeitgeist.

    For us plebs on the IT shop-floor more headaches and more trouble as more users want more software that won't work properly, more overtime, more ca....hang on a minute!

  15. Steen Hive

    Déjà Vu

    Nearly every web "standard" since time immemorial has suffered from exactly the same sort of bollox.

    Now, flash is crap - everyone knows it's crap - but you know what? if I can use it to deliver a reasonably consistent experience without browser-sniffing, css hiding and positioning hacks, JS abstraction layers, per-browser codec detection and all the associated maintainability nightmares, I'm going to do just that. Sorry, my life is too short to wait for these cocks to get their act together.

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Apple in "not advertising competitors" shocker!

    Now, can anybody think of a modern browser that owes its existence to a browser that introduced extensions and tags which were

    a) not part of any known standard ?

    b) incompatible with every other browser?

    c) a <blink>ing blight on the Interwebs?

    1. The BigYin

      I see...

      ...that's it's not only Apple who don't get open standards, it's the fanbois too.

      1. Anonymous Coward

        RE: I see...

        "...that's it's not only Apple who don't get open standards, it's the fanbois too."

        The original commenter seems to have been casting aspersions about how good early versions of IE were (not good at all). They introduced tags of their own (blink being one of them) and basically made the internet an eye-watering thing to look at...

        Of course, if your definition of "open standard" is "anyone gets to add whatever rubbish they like" then that's another story...

        1. Havin_it

          RE: RE: I see...

          Er, no s/he wasn't. Edumacate yourself:

          You can blame MS for a lot of the web's ills, but they came late to the party. Consider my choice of icon multiplied x2 for your benefit.

    2. Not That Andrew

      <blink>Netscape Navigator! With added annoyances!</blink>

      I'm pretty sure Netscape invented the blink tag. Ahh good old Netscape Navigator, how I remember and hate thee.

      1. M Gale

        I'm pretty sure..

        ..that it was <font> and <layer> that Nutscrape introduced. Microsoft tried their own versions of things too, including DirectX filters. Yeah, try making THAT work on any platform that isn't Windows...

  17. BarcodeBoffin

    Microsoft are good guys now?

    I'm no fan of Apple but it seems to me that the bashing they are getting is because their website "gives the impression" that Safari is the only browser to do HTML5. How is this worse than the much more visible "IE8 in 8 seconds" TV adverts from Microsoft which give the impression that IE is the only browser that can help you avoid attack sites, and the only browser that has a privacy mode.

    Did they not steal that idea from Firefox?

    The other thing which, I guess, people are so familiar with that they don't see it any more is that Safari is shown as being available "For Mac + PC". I have a PC - I run Linux. Can I have Safari?

    I'm a PC and.... I'll get my coat...

    1. M Gale

      Take your arse over to Google

      ..and type in "PlayOnLinux". Once installed, you can use it to make various things (like Safari) play.. erm.. in Linux. It's basically a nice flashy GUI over WINE, so not technically "Safari in Linux", but it's the closest you'll get. It does things in a nice wizard-style as well. Select the "Safari" icon, click the install button, wait while it downloads and does its stuff.

      Don't like Safari in Linux/WINE meself though. The fonts are a bit wrong, it runs a bit slow, plus you get Konqueror if you want something powered by webkit anyway.

      1. justkyle

        Google is your friend?

        Come on, you must be new here.

        Or, maybe just new to linux.

        It's called compile from source. It's what real *nix geeks do for fun.

        No evil Google icon yet, okay then Tux for linux!

  18. Anonymous Coward

    omg, stop the presses

    A Company is making its own products look good on the internet, wont someone think of the children

    Fail, well FFS

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Thumb Up


      And more dumb and blind downvoting because you had the audacity to criticise the irrational reactions on here. For shame you!

  19. Chris Hatfield

    Lol, drama!

    I love Apple (when they behave) but they are acting like tw*ts here. Jobs comes across as a muppet when behaves like this.

  20. MacDoc

    Apple is in the Drivers seat now...Get use to it!!

    Chris Blizzard is the only one confused!

    1. Tom 7 Silver badge

      Driving the wrong way

      in a stolen car full of people who have no idea where they want to be and actually paid for the car but are too lazy and/or stupid to even contemplate driving lessons.

      With users like this we'll never be able to go south of the river - or even out of town come to that.

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Great Apple promotion!

    Is "Chris Blizzard" really Steve Job's pen name? I'd never have noticed Apple's HTML5 page if it hadn't been for all this shouting. It makes for great publicity.

    It's nothing more than a showcase for Apple software. The HTML5 bit is just the buzzword of the moment, i.e. marketing fluff. The message is really, "look at the web through Safari". If Chris is really an evangelist for Mozilla, he should have made a "look at the web through FireFox" page and shouted about that. Now all he has done is promote Apple.

  22. Magnus_Pym

    It was always going to be difficult

    So many people have made so much money over the years from lock-in's and de facto 'standards' that sweeping them away was always going to be a difficult job. Look at the never ending argument about video encoding. So many middle-men trying desperately to cling on to their meal tickets.

    All this crap is just the death throws of the leviathan old school computer industry that has keep itself alive for far to long. The Hardware-OS-Apps lock-in should have died years ago. There is no need for it. HTML5 is just one more plank for its coffin. It's a lot of work to keep per-browser special coding going on a commercial web site but it's nothing compared to what it will be like if standards are not rigidly applied. More and more divers hardware is becoming capable of browsing that it will become impossible to keep track of every PC, laptop, palmtop, tablet, phone, book reader, TV, radio, domestic appliance, wristwatch, car, advertising hoarding, alarm clock and god know what else they will think of in the next few years.

  23. Anonymous Coward

    Apple and Google...

    ...grandstanding and gobbing off about freedom, standards, privacy and coolness all the time. It's all just bollocks.

  24. Andrew Moore

    Oh dear...

    It would appear that "HTML5" is going to be the replacement buzzword for "Web 2.0" with a load of gonks bandying it about to make themselves look more important.

    1. M Gale

      Web 2.0

      ...just like Web 1.0, except with round corners!

    2. Captain Black


      ...and so now our customers are going to start demanding their next rebrand or site is HTML5 and CSS3, more headache for me!

  25. MyHeadIsSpinning

    I'm confused

    Don't Google give money to Mozilla in exchange for being the default search engine on Firefox upon installation?

    Why is a Firefox evangelist slagging off Google then?

    1. Adam Williamson 1


      "Why is a Firefox evangelist slagging off Google then?"

      Because Mozilla actually has a shred of ethical sense and allows its employees to say what they think, regardless of underlying commercial relationships?

  26. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up

    Well for what it's worth.

    I like him

  27. David Nine


    For a man espousing open standards, he sure talks like he owns it!

  28. Anonymous Coward

    Just another lunatic's rant

    If he's so gawd damned bothered, why not put up his own page to demonstrate Mozilla's embracing of these yet unratified standards. What world does this idiot live in? Obviously one where everything is free and capitalism is an unknown word.

    But, it's much easier to say, "fuck you" to Apple and SJ, and it's quite a popular phrase these days.

    It's just a fucking demo.

    The best thing would have been to put up a page that *only* Safari supported and all others didn't - it wouldn't have been difficult to put a page up with things only Safari supported. Then this idiot would have at least had something real to complain about.


      A heaping helping of FUD

      The mozilla team shouldn't have to put up their own demo site.

      The whole point of something like HTML5 is the fact that it is VENDOR NEUTRAL.

      You shouldn't have to slap "safari only" or "mozilla" on the demo site.

      Apple's demo site is just an attempt to slander everyone else.

      Of course the Apple faithful are just eating it up. Hopefully no one else will.

      1. Anonymous Coward


        HTML5 is not ratified. When ratified it will be vendor neutral only in as much as each vendor *chooses* to support the standard or not. Not all will support it entirely, but that's not the point here. People need to start understanding that HTML5 will provide some great things - here is a sample.

        The anti-Apple crowd (to use your logic) are foaming at the mouth over a fucking demo, but if Apple had put up a site that didn't rendor (remember, it's not ratified this standard) in every single browser perfectly and the same as in Safari, that same group would be foaming at the mouth over the fact that "Apple intentionally tried to slander other browser manufacturers".

        It's a fucking demo. I've worked in loads of companies and every single demo is just that, a demo - it's not perfect, and comes with a strict script from which you *never* deviate.

  29. albsure

    damn... context people!!!

    The man from Mozilla .. he say no!!

    Why does he think that a company should spend time promoting other companies products as if the tech world is some big charity? What a loon..

    The context of Apple's html 5 demo is simple. While everyone (Mozilla/Google/IE) were all sitting on the fence, Apple was getting pulverised by Adobe and the "free" press for not supporting Flash. The fact that Flash has NEVER existed in any usable form for any mobile device for 3 yrs was a small insignificant point.. Western culture HATES success, and Apple is the latest success figure to hate.

    Anyway, Apple thought it best to inform the world that they support a standard way of doing things on the web called HTML5. And they feel that it can do enough of what Flash does to show consumers that they dont need Flash to survive in this new mobile world. So Apples intention was to show that this is what they believe in. And to stop any ambiguity, i.e. some demo's might not work on all browsers in the same way (because the HTML5 standard is still being implemented by browser dev';s).. Apple makes sure that they show that the products they ship (i.e. Mac. Iphone/Ipad etc..) will run this stuff in Safari, because thats the product they ship.

    THAT IS IT... nothing sinister, nothing crazy...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Thumb Up


      Finally, a rational comment! Well done, couldn't have said it better myelf (and obviously didn't).

    2. Sim~


      Instead of blocking access to other browsers, they could of just put up a message saying they recommend Safari for the demo as that is what they tested it on. Instead of stretching the truth they could of said its not just purely HTML5 in the demo. Of course, everybody is ignoring the fact he saved his real anger for Google, who fully deserve it for their spin.

      As for IE, I'm looking forward to 9, but I won't be using HTML5 for another 2 years or more.

      1. captain veg Silver badge

        could of


        AAAAAAARRRRGGGHHHHH!!!!!!! It's could HAVE. Are you completely brainless?

        Otherwise, totally agree. Except for your second paragraph.


    3. Adam Williamson 1

      That, way over there, was the point

      The whole point is that putting up a site which requires you to use a specific browser is completely the wrong way to go about claiming you support a _standard_.

      And you conveniently avoid the other major point, that Apple's demo is not a demo of HTML5, but a demo of HTML5 and CSS3 and some other junk that has nothing to do with either.

  30. Anonymous Coward

    Get a move on.

    Whine, whine, whine as is the prevalent wind on The Reg forums.

    What's holding back this push to HTML5 is know-it-all web designers arguing amongst themselves trying to make their voice heard to the W3C. And over trivial matters too! Who really cares if Apple blocked your precious Firefox/Opera/Chrome/IE from viewing the site? If you make websites for a living you should have Safari installed. In that case, view it in Safari, agree that it actually looks nice, will produce some much needed dynamics in web design and pressure the rest of the browser devs to implement it in their products.

    Personally, I don't mind who does it - Apple, Google, Microsoft, Mozilla, whoever - but someone needs to get off their arse and actually start creating proper demos. And, personally, I agree with the blocking of browsers.To push this stuff forward we need proof of a high quality working product. I'd back any other browser developer if they did the same. At the end of the day this stuff (if it makes the final draft) will all be open anyway! If we all moan and bicker we're not going to get anywhere and where's the point in that!?!

    All we've (largely) had so far about HTML5 is what it can potentially do. Like it or not, Apple's got a big enough voice to start raising awareness of this tech. As soon as consumers pick up on (and hopefully want) this stuff more and more devs will need to get it into their browsers.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      anonymous troll is anonymous

      Wow this is so wrong it's painful. Every sentence is wrong. I'll respond to the least ridiculous one only.

      "... I agree with the blocking of browsers.To push this stuff forward we need proof of a high quality working product."

      Proof would be in the fact the other browsers failed to render it, this would be achieved by NOT blocking them from accessing the demo. Having got around the block and tried other nightly browsers, it would seem they perform very well indeed. FYI, other browsers support browser independent demos and tests, its about standards, not your little toys. Have you even looked other demos??

  31. Anonymous Coward
    Gates Halo

    Every automobile manufacturer does the same

    "Only in our car can you avoid losing control on wet roads" etc etc etc. It's all about marketing to gain market share.

  32. mittfh


    Allows you to view almost all of the useful content (i.e. text), but with none of the crud (images, videos, sounds, crazy fonts etc.)

    Go on, you know it makes sense :)


    This article is short sighted...

    At this point, an standards compliant IE is vaporware. Until it actually exists and is in the hands of many, it will be no more standards compliant than IE8 was promised to be. Even the "compatibility mode" in IE8 didn't actually render sites the same way IE7 used to, and this was the whole point of "compatibility mode" in the first place.

    As for Google and Native Client... does this guy not understand that a Native Client plugin will exist for all other browsers. Sure, it's in Chrome... but it's in lock-down... under severe testing. It isn't in the stable release and on by default, so for that matter, he might as well say that Native Client isn't in *any* browser yet.

    Once Native Client is officially in Chrome, it will automatically exist for IE via the IE Chrome Frame plugin. This plugin also technically works in FireFox, though it hasn't been officially released for it yet. As for Safari... well, I don't know what the story is with Safari.

    At the moment, when using various HTML5 tests, the latest dev build of Chrome (in Windows, at least) is the MOST HTML5 compliant browser available... and this guy is griping about Google's talk of HTML5?

    I wasn't *once* convinced by Google that Native Client is some sort of open standard. The reason Google likes HTML5 is because it makes web applications more like machine applications, with the local storage (allowing offline modes) and the deeper ability to interact with local interfaces. Native Client exists to close the gap, when the highest level of performance is needed from the CPU or GPU. For instance, you're not going to make QUAKE using HTML5, but it has already been ported to Native Client.

    From my view, HTML5 and Native Client really *are* the future. Application developers who want to make, say, 3d games... can just write their games in C++... and, using Native Client, can get people to play their games within the web browser for a window (or in full screen mode, since browsers support this as well). No need to "install" or "uninstall" software. HTML5 gives all of the basic features any online/offline web-based application would need when it doesn't need the type of processing power that 3d games would require.

    It sounds to me like this guy just wants to complain about everyone else and leave Mozilla's lack of true leadership out of the picture.

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