back to article ID cards poster girl laments her £30

Angela Epstein, the Manchester-based columnist and ID cards poster girl, has written a furious lament for the scheme - and she's so angry she's started a Facebook group. "I never wanted to be a poster girl for the ID project," Epstein rages in her latest treatise for the Manchester Evening News. "I never had any kind of …


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  1. Anigel

    you been served

    Serves her right for volunteering for something that was obviously doomed and pointless. I am sure I can set up an online identity project if she insists on dropping 30 quid on every doomed if project

    1. Syd

      Obviously Doomed?

      While I agree with the general sentiments entirely, which I think could be neatly summed up as: Ha-ha!

      Nevertheless... "obviously doomed"?

      Do you really believe that a majority conservative government would have scrapped them?

      'Cos... given who tried to introduce them in the first place, 20-odd years ago... I don't!!

      1. opaque

        Errr yes,

        they've always said they were going to get rid of it

  2. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

      My feelings exactly

      A bottom-feeding pond dweller.

      No sympathy from me.

  3. Jelliphiish

    what comes after Zeta?

    there must be a list for her somewhere..

    1. Jerome 0

      After zeta?

      That would be eta. I'm guessing omega is the letter you're looking for.

      1. Ed Blackshaw Silver badge

        After Zeta?


        Mine's the one with the Greek alphabet on the back...

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward


    How dare David Laws try not to be ousted as a homosexual because there are so many openly gay politicans in the upper echelons of power and the media wouldn't at all try and undermine him at every opportunity... O wait, that's exactly what they have done.

    It isn't theft it's like knowingly buying a cheap knock off piece of kit and being suprised when it doesn't work correctly.

    1. Naughtyhorse

      off topic

      I really couldnt care less what he does in the privacy of his own home, or anyone elses for that matter.

      And yes it is shamefull that he feels he has to hide his feeleings. not just from the press and parliament, but from his own familly too.

      what I object to is the fact the basterd stole 40 grand of my hard earned, for no good reason.

      and what I'm REALLY pissed off about it that it was a lib dem caught with his hand in the till.


      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward


        he's a millionaire?

      2. Malcolm Weir Silver badge

        Use some thought: Laws saved us money

        Sorry, Naughtyhorse, but you've been drinking the kool-aid: the 40 grand figure is the total paid to his partner, not the portion paid since renting from one's partner became inappropriate. So there is no question that the figure is less than 40K.

        And more important: had Laws rented on the open market (as he was 100% entitled to do), he'd have spent more for the accommodation. Which we would have paid.

        So Laws got slimed for actually saving us money.

        Good dea! Thank you, The Telegraph. Nice work!

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward


        "I really couldnt care less what he does in the privacy of his own home, or anyone elses for that matter."

        You may not, but a good 30%+ of the British population still views homosexuality as wrong.

        "what I object to is the fact the basterd stole 40 grand of my hard earned, for no good reason."

        He didn't steal 40 grand from you. That's pretty decrepit thinking.

        As to no good reason, he had a pretty good reason, if he declared the man he was renting from as his lover then his career would more or less be over, a rather good reason not to announce it.

        How many MPs renting from a hetrosexual lover get away with this? I suspect a fair few and they wont be found out unless they're having an affair because there's no story in it. Nailing the man as homosexual was a double win for the media and did us out of a man who (rarely in modern politics) actually had a firm understanding of his portfolio.

        1. Naughtyhorse


          he made claims that were against the rules, that is why h elost his job

          and we all know that making claims against the rules is what mp's do when the rest of us steal.

          He CHOSE to keep his sexuality secret. AND he CHOSE to enter public life.

          and then he chose to stel my money. and for that he deserves to loose his job.

          end of!

          1. Ed Blackshaw Silver badge

            Come on now HaughtyHorse*

            There is no denying that the man broke the rules, but if you look aty what he actually did, it is not really that bad.

            The man was entitled to claim for rent, just not from a spouse or partner, a rule which was introduced only a few years ago. Since he was already claiming for rent for a property owned by his lover, he was then put in the situation where he could stop claiming the rent (which correctly, he should have done) or continue. Because he didn't want to be outed, since it would put a serious damper on his career, he didn't stop claiming, since if he had, it is not unreasonable to suggest that the question of why would arise.

            As has been noted above, if he had been openly gay, then he would have been entitled to claim other benefits. His mistake was to try to protect his private life from the gutter press.

            Do you know what, most people CHOOSE to keep their sexuality secret, although most people's sexuality doesn't attract ire from morons.

            And one more thing - he didn't 'stel' anyone's money, he claimed money which it turns out he wasn't entitled to, so he is paying it back. Yes, he deserves to 'loose' his job because he broke the rules, but not for the reasons you give.

            *Apologies for the pun on your name, but it just works so WELL...

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Come on now HaughtyHorse

              > The man was entitled to claim for rent, just not from a spouse or partner, a rule which was introduced only a few years ago. Since he was already claiming for rent for a property owned by his lover, he was then put in the situation where he could stop claiming the rent (which correctly, he should have done) or continue.

              Yeah sure there is absolutely nothing wrong with claiming rent to which you are not entitled.

              My son is unemployed at the moment and living with me. I'm sure the authorities wouldn't mind if he claimed rent to pay me, after all if he rented a flat he would be entitled to claim more rent than I would charge him. Oh yeah, thats right, the authorities would view that as fraud and prosecute him. It is a pity the MPs dont have to abide by the same rules as us mere mortals.

            2. Naughtyhorse


              looking 'aty' what he did...

              MP's mis-claiming is stealing

              end your internal dialogue, you are wrong.

              it's just there is one law for the rest of us schmucks.

              and another for our political overlords.

              and it fucking stinks.

              There is a whole other debate about sexuality, for which I feel a great degree of sympathy for him -although the 30%? who think it's wrong to be gay. (elsewhere in this thread) almost certainly thing being a 'lib dem' is wrong too, so thats not really a defence.

              It does seem that this whole gay angle to the story is something that has been rolled out by the spin doctors to try to mitigate the misdeed.

              The whole 'repaying' over claimed monies is bollocks too

              And I'm not singling him out IMHO (lol) 100's of the theving bastards should be in the dock. I claim expenses as part of my job, and the rule is; if i dont have receipts, or can't otherwise demonstrate that an expense was incurred i don't claim it. I have no problem with that. but i fail to see why anyone else should have a different arrangement. ESPECIALLY when I am footing the bill.

          2. breakfast Silver badge

            But not against the rules...

            He made claims that were within the rules but not within what was retrospectively decided to be the spirit of the rules.

            Retrospective judgements are all well and good, and what he did was certainly unethical, but he wasn't short of a few quid to start with and here's a thing about people who are successful with money: They play the rules. They follow the letter of the rules and use any loopholes or wriggle space in that to maximise their own benefit.

            Now on the one hand I would rather my politicians were ethical and upstanding in all matters. On the other, I would really like to have someone who can recognise loopholes and wriggle space in financial rules to be writing those rules...

      4. Anonymous Coward


        Follow the story and it's pretty clear that he outed himself - and did it to gain sympathy. In other words he thought his sexuality would make people treat him with more sympathy than if he'd been straight. Cynical manipulation by a common thief, but it shows how homosexuality isn't the issue it was 20 years ago.

        Like maughtyhorse says, he was a thief. What else does it show when clegg and cameron stand behind this man and call him honourable? They all live on a different planet, and as soon as we realise this, we can start dealing with them properly. Don't beleive a word the shits say. Laws was upset because he got caught stealing our money, no other reason.

      5. Merchman

        Re: off topic

        The irony of the situation is, if he had declared his relationship, he would have been entitled to a greater allowance over the same period of time:

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Last time I checked

          There are/were plenty of gay MPs. Kind of ruins the idea that his career would be distroyed by commeing out:

          Angela Eagle, Chris Bryant, Chris Smith, David Borrow, Nick Brown to name a few.

          It is no longer about how he would be treated, but how he views himself, which is no excuse for brakeing the rules, and not £40k of rule brakeing. I am aware homophobia still exists, and was infact subjected to it myself last Saterday from a taxi driver, but to claime what he has is stupid. Infact I doubt anyone would even have noticed if he did not claim a housing allowence.

          The value of fair market rent is nothing to do with it, no more than if someone was claiming rent for a house their husband or wife owned.

    2. Anonymous Coward

      The title is required etc

      > How dare David Laws try not to be ousted as a homosexual because there are so many openly gay politicans in the upper echelons of power...

      David Laws did not need to claim rent to keep his sexuality secret. The only reason he has been outed is because he did claim rent that he was not entitled to.

  5. Anonymous Coward

    That'll learn 'em proper!

    "she's so angry she's started a Facebook group."

    Ooooh, scary-dairy! I bet the Gov bods are quaking their boots!

    1. Conrad Longmore

      Why not..

      Why not have a demonstration? You will be able to do that outside Parliament* thanks to the new government.

      * assuming you have filed the correct paperwork and err.. presumably shown some ID.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        You could already do that Conrad

        The restriction wasn't that you couldn't demonstrate outside parliament under the previous government - you were perfectly entitled to, but as you say, you had to file the correct paperwork and have ID to hand.

        Hopefully the newly branded dictatorship will allow us to once again exercise our democratic right to demonstrate without consent from the police beforehand outside parliament.

  6. seanj

    Deal with it.

    You have voluntarily handed over £30 to buy into a scheme which has always been on the cards for cancellation, and you've been exposed to the nation as a retard - if I were you, I'd cut my losses, shut the fuck up, and try and keep your head down unless you also want to be the poster girl for pointless hissy fits. Moron.

    And by the way - a Facebook protest group? How old are you, twelve? Grow up.

    1. Stratman
      Thumb Down


      Starting A Facebook Group.

      Presumably that's the modern equivalent of holding your breath until you turn blue, or Violet Elizabeth Bott's "I'll thcream and thcream until I'm thick"

      That'll show 'em.

  7. Anonymous Coward

    she's so angry she's started a Facebook group.

    Now, that is angry. I'm so angry I could crush a grape...

    Shame I've have to subsidise her delusions.

  8. Seanmon
    Thumb Up

    Altogether now...

    HA HA!

  9. blackworx
    Thumb Up

    Nice one Reg

    Thanks for keeping tabs on this one for us.

    What a shame on the poor girl, being dragged against her will into the public eye like that just to be pointed and laughed at. Twice.

  10. raving angry loony


    Makes sense that a gossip mongering paparazzi wouldn't have a clue about the privacy or rights implications of such things.

  11. Mickey Porkpies
    Thumb Down

    don't know her and don't want to

    you are nobody and trying to become somebody.

    do the world a favour and go play on facebook

    ohh... I hear she intends to sue those damn nigerians who haven't sent her money back!

  12. Shamalam

    Misguided idiot speaks.

    Let her sue, she won't get far.

    Everyone and their dog knew the system would be scrapped under the next administration.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Down

    Dear Angela Epstein,

    I suggest we here in the Reg comments forum club together and raise the £30 for you, if in return you promise to admit you're not really a proper journalist, and then go away and never write another article about anything, again, ever.

    1. PsychicMonkey
      Thumb Down

      sod that

      she can't have a penny of mine for being a prat. Enough of my money has been wasted on the ID card scheme already thanks very much.

    2. I didn't do IT.

      Re: Reg Comments Club Pitch-In

      ... or perhaps start up a series of Page 4* girls for El Reg, with hers as the lead items? I'm sure we could all pitch in to get her 30 quid back that way, eh?

      * Yes, I know its "Page 3 girls", but this isn't just some ratty rag mag, its EL REG! ;)

  14. Eponymous Cowherd
    Big Brother

    Proving Darwin wrong?

    How has someone this astoundingly stupid survived so long?

    Big Brother.

    He ain't watching us quite so much as he used to (but still more than is necessary)....

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward


      I agree with your point, but at the moment natural selection would probably somewhat favour the stupid and promiscuous - there's no need for intelligence to survive anymore really (though if you think about it, practicality rather than aptitude for maths is what you'd consider as intelligence in this regard, not that she has either).

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up

    The only thing she's a poster girl for...

    ... is being stupid.

  16. D 13

    ""I never had any kind of evangelical wish to make other people register for an ID card,"

    And yet back in December she wrote a long article for the Manchester Evening News saying

    "I genuinely felt proud and excited when I was finally handed my card. I loved seeing my name, face and the words British citizen on this tiny piece of plastic. That’s who I am, and why shouldn’t anyone know?"

    and then followed it up with the classic

    "As I’ve said before I understand why people have their reservations, but I personally can’t see what there is to lose if you’re a law abiding citizen with nothing to hide."

    and she also drops in the fact that she knows they'll be abandoned if the tories get in.

    It's just a shame that they didn't cost more.

  17. Si 1

    "damning proof of an ever encroaching nanny state"

    No, it's proof of a police state, not a nanny state. What sort of idiot is she to have thought signing up to putting her data into a Labour government database was a good idea?

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    She's a class act

    She even gets in the old warhorse:

    'Except to say if you were a law abiding citizen you had nothing to lose and everything to gain from something that carried little more information about you than your supermarket loyalty card.'

  19. djberriman

    Whats the problem

    You paid £30 for an identity card - you got one?

    OK its now useless but then so were beta max videos, BSB Kit and god knows how many other things. Its life - get used to it!

    Move along, nothing to see here, next!

  20. Anonymous Coward


    Bitching that you lost £30 is fair enough, but bitching that you lost £30 when:

    a) you never spent the £30 to begin with, opting instead to photoshop (badly) a specimen card into your hand.


    b) you are vocal in your support of ID cards even as you claim you never wanted to be vocal in your support of ID cards

    is such monumentally shabby behavior (hounding dead people's relatives notwithstanding) that you ought to be put to work digging ditches with a toothpick until you can offer a sincere apology for what you have done.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I believe

      you meant "put to work wiping an elephants' arse with a confetti"

  21. Chris Harrison
    Paris Hilton

    I assume she can keep it

    She paid for a card, and she's got a card, so what's she moaning about?

    It's not as if she can demand that anyone else shows theirs after all.

    Paris because she's not to shy too show hers.

  22. Ventilator

    Hell hath no fury

    like a dirt-bag gossip columnist parted ever so easily from her £30

    Alien, 'cos surely she's from another planet? UK Earthlings knew the ID card scheme was doomed.

  23. david wilson

    What's the story?

    So a wannabe journalist decides to use the /launch/ of ID cards to try and get some free publicity for herself, and some people are surprised when she decides to use the /cancellation/ of ID cards to try and get some free publicity for herself?

  24. N2

    "I want my money back. Otherwise, it is simply tantamount to theft"

    Labours pissed the lot against the wall & theres stuff all left

    So more fool you for being daft enough to buy one

  25. Ball boy Silver badge

    Give her her money back, I say

    But only if she repays the money she got for writing all those column inches about the damn thing in the first place.

    Fair's fair, m'dear: you profited from this relationship far, far more than you lost by it.

  26. GilbertFilbert

    "I want my money back. Otherwise, it is simply tantamount to theft"

    You will get more sympathy if you claim it was a stealth tax - the downside is that you would have to admit it was a stealth tax on the stupid. But hey, you may get your £30 back.

  27. Anonymous Coward

    I see what you did there

    and i liked the way you slipped this one in...

    The definitely-non-evangelical columnist compared the experience at the time to the birth of her daughter. "It's a seminal moment," she also wrote, apparently warming to her reproductive theme.

    1. TeeCee Gold badge

      Re: "i liked the way you slipped this one in..."

      and I like the way that you echoed the theme in your approval..........

      1. Count Ludwig
        Paris Hilton

        Bulgarian airbags cause seminal moments

        I can feel a new euphemism er.. coming on.

        Didn't Paris have a famous 'seminal moment'?

  28. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward


    She betrays her fellow citizens by encouraging the government to tag us all; and then bemoans the fact that she spent £30 doing so. No sympathy. She's paid nowhere near as much as she deserves to pay us in compensation.

  29. Wokstation

    A woman without a clue, clearly.

    "I won’t re-heat my views on the hackneyed, oven-ready arguments that were marshalled in opposition to ID cards. Except to say if you were a law abiding citizen you had nothing to lose and everything to gain from something that carried little more information about you than your supermarket loyalty card."

    Yes, sure, nothing to worry about...

  30. smudge
    Paris Hilton


    If she really is "the poster girl for ID cards" and had the first voluntary one, then her useless card will be worth more than 30 quid on e-Bay.

    I know I shouldn't be giving her ideas, but I don't think she'll be reading here, do you?

    Even Paris knows how to sell trash!

    1. seanj

      On the other hand....

      "I know I shouldn't be giving her ideas, but I don't think she'll be reading here, do you?"

      I hope she does read El Reg - I can picture her now, having read some of the comments here, crying into her latest email from the son of the late, deposed dictator Sani Abacha, her only solace in knowing that shortly, once she's paid this one final demurrage fee, she'll have her 20% of General Abacha's hidden millions.... Stupid, gullible gutter hack.

  31. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up


    "If this wasn't a blatantly cynical exercise in tactically doing what most voters wanted" then I don't know what is,"

    There, simplified it for you.

    And this is bad for what reason Ms Epstein?

    It's funny how the use of some unnecessarily obfuscatory words can make it sound like you're saying the exact opposite.

    > angry writer's weapons of mixed metaphors and long sentences.

    I love that :D

  32. Linbox

    small claims = another £30 down the shitter

    The £30 county court fee for filing a small claims under £300 will be wasted for two VERY simple reasons;

    1) The court is the LAST resort, having tried negotiation to resolve the dispute.

    2) Crown immunity.

    1. Ed Blackshaw Silver badge

      So let her sue, lose and pay

      And hopefully, she'll take the small claims court to the small claims court to try to gain that £30 back. Recursively. Shame we don't have such thing as debtors' prison any more for unscrupulous scum like her. Or witch burnings for that matter...

  33. Doctor_Wibble

    Nothing to claim, laughed out of court?

    I could be wrong, but I'm reasonably sure that there is nothing she can reclaim in any case - the 30 is for the enrolment, not the card - which if it's on the same basis as a passport (and probably driving licence?) remains the property of the government.

    Passport page 2, item 6, 'passport remains property of HMG and may be withdrawn at any time, do not mangle, obliterate or destroy ...' etc.

    So she paid 30 for an enrolment and got one and even declared herself a truly satisfied customer shortly afterwards. The card proves that it happened, and presumably successfully, since she was waving it (the real one not the specimen) on the beeb the other day. I really can't see what she's complaining about.

  34. Alien Doctor 1.1
    Black Helicopters

    Time for El Reg to change, too

    Now we are in the final death-throes of the Stasi-card and some of the associated databases, would you lot at The Register please change your forum server name from to something with greater civil liberty meaning.

    Here's hoping...

  35. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I dub thee: Poplarism

    I for me support this new (hack, cough) movement, dedicated to leaning whichever way the wind blows.

  36. KCM

    Two words...

    .... Awwww .... Diddums!

  37. This post has been deleted by its author

  38. Anonymous John

    compared the experience at the time to the birth of her daughter


    <Pant. Pant>


    <Pant. Pant>



    "You're doing fine. It's coming. Push!"


    "Congratulations! Here's your ID card."

    1. Anonymous Coward

      "Congratulations! Here's your ID card."

      hats off to you sir

  39. Richard Porter


    "OK its now useless but then so were beta max videos, BSB Kit and god knows how many other things. Its life - get used to it!"

    Betamax videos are just as useful as they ever were, and as useful as VHS is now! You can still play them. BSB kit is useless because there's nothing it can receive.

    ID cards were always pointless because if you had the kit to take someone's biometrics you could surely check them against the on-line database. The card itself was irrelevant.

    1. Michael 28


      They dont have hdmi slots.... that'll be the problem then

      1. MJI Silver badge
        Thumb Up

        Got a Scart though

        Well one of mine has.

        The other two are by the PC for capturing old tapes

    2. djberriman

      @richard porter

      Ok ok so you can still use Betamax videos you have if you have a player but I remember many people bemoaning the fact they had bought Betamax when VHS became the defacto standard in the UK as they could not get films etc any more and were going to have to buy a VHS system as their system was basically obsolete.

      I bought VHS but copped for BSB.

      P.S. Thats not the R.P. I used to know at N.P is it? Small world if so :)

      1. MJI Silver badge

        I skipped Vhs

        Very early DVD adopter, so didn't bother with Vhs - as to films - recorded them off the TV in better quality than Vhs.

        Straight from Beta to DVD, now gone BluRay.

  40. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Ginger whinger from the MEN

    I remember last year when Oasis played 3 nights at Heaton Park, Manchester. She stamped her feet about 70 000 having a great time, and that they shouldn't be in "her park"

    iirc Noel Gallagher called her a ""a ginger whinger from the MEN who has written a couple of shitty little pieces " :D

  41. John Smith 19 Gold badge

    I don't like to engage in childish behaviour but..


    That is all.

  42. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I Wonder...

    How many of those bitching about not getting their £30 back originaly claimed the cost back on expenses?

  43. LinkOfHyrule


    She's got nothing to hide and she's got a face book group! And she's thirty Quid down! I wouldn't mess with her if I was you! She's a hard hitting hack!

    Sell the card on ebay in five years time, it will probably fetch a few bob more than thirty. I'd imagine the museum of fascism* would pay at least £35 for it. And in the mean time, go get a Job on a low profile paper and stop showing yourself up (oh sorry, you already do work for a low profile paper, well it was until you started drawing attention to yourself like a loud mouthed village idiot.)

    *If it exists.

  44. Mike Moyle


    'The definitely-non-evangelical columnist compared the experience at the time to the birth of her daughter. "It's a seminal moment..."

    I would have thought that the seminal moment happened some months previously...

  45. David 45

    Handbags at ten paces.

    Don't know what she's bitching about. She laid down her money (presumably) and had delivered to her exactly what she wanted - a nice, new, shiny ID card. The mere fact that it is now completely useless is somewhat Wonder what the guarantee is? "Twenty minutes or until you leave the premises, madam, which ever comes the sooner". More fool her for shelling out the dosh but perhaps she could report the government to Trading Standards!

    Personally I was prepared to resist having one to the bitter end, even if it meant a court appearance. I detested the idea in the extreme.

  46. Anonymous Coward


    Well you can always use it to chop fat lines of cocaine.

    1. Anonymous Coward


      Labour's ID Cards can be used to chop fat lines of coke?

      Clearly they're in cahoots with the drug dealers! Why else keep the prices artificially high, driving more money into the hands of organised crime and Terrorists?

      Any right-thinking person can see that they should be locked up.

      See, if she was a good journo she'd be able to come up with something like this and get a _proper_ campaign going...

  47. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    and now we can see...

    who all the other stupid people are..all holding handshakes on the spaceface

  48. Randolf McKinley
    Thumb Up

    Something Labour did right ...

    ID Cards - a tax on the stupid.

  49. Rob Crawford

    Oh look

    she is really dreary and barely literate.

    Perhaps her employers should be annoyed at losing £30 as I'm sure she claimed it on expenses.

  50. Anonymous Coward


    Delicious schadenfreude!

  51. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Ideologically short-changed

    If she's a Labour supporter (or perhaps just a Stalinist), she's been getting ideologically screwed since at least 1994, so she can't exactly be the brightest journo in the bar if she missed it. Her evident distress will however probably cheer up some of the bereaved she's previously doorstepped. Me too, come to that.

  52. John 211

    So in effect she is saying...

    ..that the 'seminal' experience akin to the birth of her child is not worth £30 - would she be prepared to have that experience expunged from her memories for a £30 buy-off too - guess so.

    Her kid must be chuffed about that.

    A phase containing 'fool' and 'money' springs to mind.

  53. mhoulden

    Same old story

    As the saying goes, a fool and his money are soon parted. When the ID card scheme was voluntary there was no point having a card, and if it had been made compulsory it would have been difficult to justify having a registration fee without it being classed as a tax.

    I already have a passport, work ID and driving licence that I can use if I need to prove my ID, but for most financial stuff a couple of bills and a bank statement are a lot better. If somewhere needs me to prove my age, all they have to do is ask how old I am. Section 146(4) of the Licensing Act 2003 provides a defence for underage sale of alcohol if someone under 18 lies about their age when asked.

    Of course the whole point of the ID card scheme was the national ID register, a system which would have brought me no benefits at all and would have actually made life less convenient because of all the pointless admin it would have involved. The text of the Identity Documents Bill is at and makes it very clear that the register must be destroyed and quickly.

  54. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "Financially and ideologically short-changed"

    Missed out 'mentally'

  55. Captain DaFt

    Why is she crying?

    If I understand it right, they're not just dropping the whole thing instantly, but letting the issued cards run until EOL. (End Of Life, that's means until they expire, for the acronym impaired)

    So, 30 pounds for something that's good for five years, actually sounds like a bargain to me Why all the kvetching?

  56. Sam Therapy
    Thumb Up

    Maybe the current administration could rename the fee...

    ... to a Stupidity Tax?

    1. TeeCee Gold badge

      Re: Stupidity tax.

      I think that one's already in general use to describe the National Lottery.

      Of course, if she'd used her 30 quid to buy 30 lines on the lottery, she'd have stood a slim chance of getting her money back and an outside chance of making quite a bit more.

      So it's targetted at people who are too stupid to fall within the remit of a standard stupidity tax..........Fuckwit tax?........Knuckle-dragging-moron tax?........

      1. MJI Silver badge

        I play the lottery

        I occasionally win.

        I like a lot of the heritage awards - going to preserved railways and XH558.

        Went to a lovely garden last week - visitor centre paid by lottery.

        It is something fun to do and costs me £2 a week on Saturdays.

        And I am not stupid

  57. Dodgy Geezer Silver badge

    Simple statement....

    I'm really glad she lost thirty pounds, and hope she spends a lot more in a vain attempt to get it back....

  58. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Red Hot Kebabs

    "You may not, but a good 30%+ of the British population still views homosexuality as wrong."

    That'll be the 30% that likes to watch all girl action movies on Red Hot Kebabs TV, and who are like to see them take the meat up the chuffer.

    No double standards, there.

    Gay women - good.

    Gay men bad.

    I wonder why they are so insecure.

    David Law's proclivities are irrelevant. Is he a good MP to his constituents, that's what matters.

  59. Anonymous Coward

    facebook group

    What's the facebook group called? I want to laugh at them. Idiots.

  60. J Ford

    Quids in

    Surely an ID card will be worth a few quid on ebay, there can't be that many of them out there? She'll get more than £30 for it if it's the first issued.

  61. Anonymous John

    How much was she paid for the two MEN articles?

    More than £30 I'm sure. Ans would the cost of the card be a business expenses?

    If she bought one, that is. The one in the photo has someone else's photo, and "Specimen" on it.

  62. Anonymous Coward

    Good grief...

    ...she's a little dim, isn't she?

  63. Magnus_Pym

    Well that's what you get...

    ... for trusting a politician. If she only lost £30 she's done well.

  64. RichardB
    Jobs Horns

    If she thinks _that_ is theft

    ...just wait till she finds out who they are going to sell - or have already sold - the data associated with it to!

    What was the list of internet 'mugs' that was doing the rounds? Wonder if she's on that yet...

  65. Mr Larrington


    I have about as much sympathy for this person as I would have for Benjamin Netanyahu, were I to hear that he had stubbed his toe.

  66. Ascylto
    Big Brother

    ID Cards - a 'Solution' , thankfully not Final.

    With a name like Epstein she should be much more wary of ID cards and databases. Has she no sense of history?

    A little man with an unusual moustache used ID (with the willing help, by the way, of IBM) to sort out the people he wanted liquidated.

    £30? She got off lightly!

    1. David Adams

      She also writes for the Jewish Chronicle

      This is her article when she got the card

      Particularly liked this bit:

      "Most significantly, some ventured that as a Jew I must be all too familiar with the sinister wartime echoes of having to prove identity. Why didn’t my skin prickle at the very thought of carrying an ID card?

      Personally, I cannot see what there is to lose — and there’s certainly everything to gain. An ID card is a portable, convenient way to prove your identity without having to carry something like a passport with you — which is murder to replace if you lose it."

      And i'd just like to add; SuperLOLs

      1. Anonymous Coward


        I was going to say something about the upside of wearing a yellow star is that nobody will offer you a sausage roll at a cocktail party or ask you to work on Saturday. But it would have been tasteless, so i won't.

      2. John Smith 19 Gold badge

        @David Adams

        "She also writes for the Jewish Chronicle "

        You're s*%^ing me.

        I'm guess this would have gotten an "interesting" post bag for the JC.

  67. John Sturdy

    Nothing to hide? in that case...

    If she has nothing to hide, could she please put her latest few bank statements on the web?

  68. Aaron Jacobs

    A fool and her money

    are easily parted

  69. Captain Mainwaring

    That's the trouble with democracy, Angela

    Back in 2005, Labour won the general election with 33% of the popular vote and assumed it had got itself a solid mandate for the role out National ID cards.

    The opposition parties objected, the pressure groups complained, but to no avail, the legislation was passed and the procurement contracts obtained. Five years did pass by dear Angela and the Con-Libs did prevail, with 60% of the national vote, they said it was time for change.

    So that's where we stand today. Both Conservatives and Liberals have made it quite clear at least for the past 3 years that were implacably opposed to ID cards and would go to the bother of scrapping them should they be elected back into power. Like the Labour party back in 2005, they assume they have a solid mandate from the electorate to pursue this policy and by the end of the summer, hopefully these wretched things will be history. Form a pressure group for their retention if you will Angela, but Labour's ID card project has come to the end of it's natural life-cycle and a hole is being dug for it's burial.

  70. Ben 47

    Expiry on Cards

    @Captain DaFt


    "Their cards will become invalid one month after the Identity Documents Bill gains Royal Assent, to allow owners to fulfil travel plans. Shortly after the National Identity Register will be destroyed."

  71. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up


    She really is a tit.

  72. Andy Barker

    Hope she declares the refund...

    If she does win and she counted the original cost as an expense, I presume that the refund will also be declared to her employer / HMRC to cancel out the original expense.

  73. CD001


    Perhaps I'll find the Facebook group and drop the link to this page/comments section onto their "wall" - if someone's not already beaten me to it of course.

  74. James 5


    .. that's all

  75. fords


    After a quick swatch on Facebook, I couldn't find her group. I really wanted to join it so I could point and laugh :(

  76. Ed Blackshaw Silver badge

    Godwin +1

    Ihre Papieren bitte!

  77. JohnG

    ID cards, fees and ownership

    The £30 fee was for expenses incurred in the processing of the application (and that's what the Identity Cards Act 2006 states). This would put it in line with similar government issued documents such as passports, driving licenses and visas. Such documents are issued to the holder but remain the property of the government and may be withdrawn under certain conditions (as the Identity Cards Act 2006 makes clear). The application for Epstein's ID card was duly processed and she paid for that processing. More accurately, she paid for some of the processing, with the bulk of the costs dumped onto the taxpayer.

    IANAL but if the Identity Cards Act 2006 is repealed, perhaps this woman would be able to get her money back by selling her card as a curiosity.

  78. Anonymous Coward

    Brilliant fail

    From her own, earlier blog:

    "You may think the £4.7bn scheme is a waste of money and I would admit that the thinking has been flawed in parts. But that’s the beauty of a voluntary scheme and a democratic society. You can choose to have one or not. The Tories have pledged to junk them if they win. And when I had a shmooze with home office minister Meg Hillier on Monday she wouldn’t say whether I’d get my 30 quid back if that happened."


    1. Ed Blackshaw Silver badge


      There were enough misguided individuals in Hackney and Shoreditch to vote Ms Hiller back into the Commons. You can tell a lot about people by the company they keep.

  79. Ben Rosenthal

    silly moo

    hadn't both the Liberals and Conservatives promised to bin this scheme in the event of either of them winning?


  80. Tim

    "A blatantly cynical exercise in tactical popularism"

    So that'll be, "Doing what most people want," then? It's almost like the government noticed that we live in a democracy.

  81. Anonymous Coward

    Boo frickety hoo ...

    "But that’s the beauty of a voluntary scheme and a democratic society. You can choose to have one or not"

    So there you go - nobody put a gun to your head and told you you had to shell out £30 for an ID card. You made the choice, knowing full well that your precious bit of plastic would be worth less than nowt after the election if the Tories got in.

    You made a choice which, as it turned out, was the wrong one. That's life - deal with it. Consider your £30 to be your contribution to the moron tax and move on.

    In the meantime, cry me a river ...

  82. David Simpson 1

    Ha Ha

    I wished she'd paid more just so we could all have a bigger laugh.

    I also hope she reads this IDIOT ! You don't understand how hackable a central database is then shut up.

  83. REMF

    she dislikes kneejerk 'populism'.............

    and she is also a prize idiot.

    there is a significant tie between the two statements, and both revolve around her lack of understanding about what representative government is supposed to achieve.

  84. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge

    Poster Girl

    "I never wanted to be a poster girl for the ID project," Epstein rages.

    I don't recall anyone (other than government and those whose wallets would be filled through involvement) banging on about how bloody wonderful the are, all over the place, given any opportunity, and she's still doing it now!

    It is indeed amazing that any Jew cannot see anything wrong with ID Card or the NIR database, does not know or has not learned the lessons of history. I was amazed that anyone, Jewish or not, could not see the dangers.

  85. Anonymous Coward

    I'm failing to detect any sympathy


  86. Merchman


    There are 2 groups set up on facebook - muppets!!/group.php?gid=118593128172936&v=info&ref=search!/group.php?gid=123582937674980&v=wall&ref=search

    The wall comments on the 2nd link are particularly amusing.

  87. Chrissy
    Big Brother


    Facebook group is this one:

    "Refund my ID card!"

    I joined just to comment at the idiots.


  88. britling

    But if a company goes bust...

    What happens if you lose money in the real world?

    If you purchase a product or service from a company that subsequently goes bust, and you didn't use a credit card to pay, then you would have to get in the queue to claim via the receivers. In all likelihood, you would not get all your money back, and may even lose the lot.

    So, Epstein's claim that this is tantamount to theft wouldn't hold water even if she was dealing with a private company rather than a new government elected on a mandate to scrap the cards.

  89. Roger Stenning

    She's a journo, eh? So much for researching the topic...

    The basic definition of theft is defined in S.1(1) of the Act.

    The Act states that: "A person shall be guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it."

    The key word here is "Dishonestly".

    She paid for a product and service.

    The product was provided (plastic ID card), and the service was the processing of her application, which presumably included scanning in her photo, fingerprints, and other biometric data ("please insert your retina into the retina scanner, miss"), which were then transcribed into a datafile which was passed through various means onto the card itself.

    Since she was provided with what she asked for, there has been no dishonesty there.

    The withdrawal of the card was in accordance with the terms and conditions of its issue, which she agreed to when she signed her application for the card in the first place. So, no dishonesty there either.


    No case to answer, then.

    In short: She's a muppit of the first order.

  90. John Smith 19 Gold badge

    And a red head to boot

    One day I'd like to meet one who isn't mad or violent, or mad and violent.

    there must be one out there.


    1. Anonymous Coward


      I am the father of one and it started about 30 secs after she arrived and hasn't let up for 7 years now! Wonderful as she is, I can't wait for the magic 13 to be reached and WW III starts in my house!

  91. John Smith 19 Gold badge

    How can cancelling this system only save £18m

    They can't have burnt through c£400m *that* fast.

    As I predicted this weed is going to need the equivalent of bureaucratic paraquat to kill.

  92. neverSteady


    Thankfully I deleted my Facebook account a few days ago, I'll never have to hear about this again.

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