Biometric passport 2.0 scrapped alongside ID cards, NIR

Second-generation biometric passports will be scrapped alongside ID cards and the National Identity Register by the new Tory-LibDem government, probably as part of a merger between the LibDem Freedom Bill, and the Great Repeal Bill advocated by some sections of the Tory party. It isn't as yet entirely clear what will be in this …

[Anonymous Coward]

Renewing passports

I hope this takes effect before June. My passport expires in July.

Go, because I want them to hurry up with it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Hooray!!

Until the next time...

[John Smith 19]

IPS like a malignant weed

Lop off the top and it's roots continue to grow.

Needs something strong and long lasting to kill this madness stone dead.

The whole *concept* of the NIR needs to be put "Beyond use."

Now that's tricky.

But thumbs up for starting this hard work.

[The Original Ash]

Wait... Is this real?

The heading states that they *are* scrapped, yet in the article it is stated that they *will* repeal the laws regarding the ID card, NIR, and biometric passport 2.0

So, has this been done yet, or are we still waiting?

[TeeCee]

Interesting.

I caught a bit on Sky News last night with the presenter in Parliament square along with reps from the three corners. Dunno who the NuLab bloke was (anyone?) but when this topic was mentioned he went off on a rant. Something like:

"This is all paper. There's nothing there, no substance and we've already done it all anyway. We've scrapped ID <apoplectic gasps from everyone else>........well.......compulsory ID........well, er......anyway there's nothing to it all...".

I wonder when they're going to get the message that their default strategy of lying through their fucking teeth to the public isn't working for them?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hahahaha

"I wonder when they're going to get the message that their default strategy of lying through their fucking teeth to the public isn't working for them?"

TeeCee, if I was a lady, I'd have your babies.

[John G Imrie]

Freedom Bill, and the Great Repeal Bill

Or as Andrew 'brillo pad' Neil almost got the Tory he was interviewing this lunch time to say 'The Great Repeal Freedom Bill' :-)

[Nigel 11]

Cheap and simple

Store all data printed on the passport in digital form within the passport. Store a crypto-checksum of that digital data in a passport verification database. Passports can then be verified. To the extent that a passport-forger has not obtained write access to the master checksum database, no faked passport will pass verification. What more is needed?

Since there's no personal information stored in the verification database there are no security issues. The verification database can be made public- just a list of passport numbers and their checksums, not even our names need be in it.

[JimmyPage]

far too sensible

far too simple, far too *cheap*. You really haven't got the hang of this "government" thing have you.

Here, I'll show you how it's done :

Start with some money (exact amount irrelevant, as you can always have some more).

Then work out how you are going to do it, by asking your mates, and their mates, and the bloke you met down the pub last night.

Then go out and ask the experts.

Then do what you were going to do anyway

Then announce whatever you've done is a success.

[Ed Blackshaw]

RE: Algorithm?

It doesn't need to be a collision-free algorithm, since presumably, each passport would also have a unique (unhashed) identifier - it would be a matter of doing a lookup against that key and comparing the hashes. What it would require is a hashing algorithm that has a _very low_ collision rate, so that the hashing algorithm could not be reverse-engineered to produce two meaningful sets of data that produce the same hash. I don't think you'd need to worry too much about a collision between the hashes for 'John Smith' and 'kd£g8*sd #n o759"$@384n5' for instance.

[FailKing]

Teresa May

Don't you mean Theresa May, although having a glamour model as home secretary could be interesting.

[BristolBachelor]

Passports in Spain

In Spain a passport is simply a document that says you have rights as a Spanish person to travel. You apply from any one of a number of large, local police stations. You need to prove who you are, and that you are entitled to a Spanish passport. You are rewarded with a new Spanish passport a day or so later, and relieved of about 12€.

In what way does this require a huge government department that costs so much to run that you need a bankloan to buy a new passport back home?

[/\/\j17]

Won't Work Here...

...we've closed down all out local police stations so the officers are free to prowl the streets in cars, safe from having to deal with the public till they jump out and mug a passing photographer for his mobile phone.

[Dan 55]

Re: Passports in Spain

Yes, well. As they've already got ID cards and an equivalent to the NIR up and running and your passport number is the same as your ID number, it's easy to fire up the printer and print out your ID card in another format with minimal checks.

As the IMF is just about to pay a visit, I doubt they'll stay €12.

(You apply from a National Police station, there are four different police forces who seem to be unable to talk to each other - Local, National, Guardia Civil, and maybe regional police if your region has one - when the Man from the IMF sees that he'll probably draw a line with a red pen through it and write 50% next to it.)

[blackworx]

Joy

Thank <insert expletive and/or deity here> they're taking the first big step away from this. The majority of people I speak to about it really don't grok why it is so wrong. I've lost count of the number of times I've heard variations on the "nothing to hide" argument from otherwise sane folk. Britain really was sleepwalking off a cliff with this one.

I know it's far from a done deal and we really don't know what we're getting, but seeing the news in black and white is a massive, massive weight off my mind.

[frank 3]

until...

I tell them that they have to report themselves to their local police station every time they move house on pain of a £1000 fine. Suddenly they get it, saying things like 'what business is it of theirs?'

Slight bending of the truth, but only slight: nothing outrageous compared with the porkles the pro-side were spinning, certainly.

One to remember for next time though.

Every single post-war government has suggested an ID card at some point. Every. Single. One.

This time was far too close for comfort.

Usually about the same time as they go native with the civil service.

The civil service love the idea so much, you see.

[Anonymous Coward]

You still have to asked yourself

"what is the other hand doing?" I didn't read that ContactPoint is being dropped. What about the NHS database? Other databases we know about and ones that we don't. What if by some fluke a database project, not shelved, is shown as per-formant, it might be commandeered for some greater role.

While I'll sleep a little better I feel the great "Phew!" maybe drowning out something else. It might be just my spider sense tingling but I've seen a government let something slide before (blaming the previous administration.)

It's as expensive to ditch the projects as it is to keep them.

[John Lettice]

Re: You still have to asked yourself

I believe we'll have a fuller run-down along shortly, but you could check here in the meanwhile:

http://regmedia.co.uk/2010/05/12/lib-con_agreement.pdf

ContactPoint covered, but only mention of NHS relates to funding. Surely a goof? The document's a little repetitive, so clearly a rush job.

[sheila]

Warning from Scotland

There is a history of unpalatable policies being test-run on the Scots (think poll tax).

The biggest assault on our liberties is being perpetrated in the guise of child protection.

An awful lot of effort has gone into persuading the great and the good that the Scottish system

(Getting it right for every child = Gathering information for every citizen)

is less intrusive than the English ((Every Child Matters = Every Citizen Monitored).

How much more intrusive can it get? This just the start of the information that is to be gathered for every citizen...

http://www.forhighlandschildren.org/htm/girfec/gir-publications/phnr-separate-forms-nov08/phnr-v4-contents.pdf

...and stored here

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Doc/924/0009673.pdf

Frame 17 really puts us in our place :(

The evidence is growing that the eCare/Girfec model may be destined for further roll-out.

http://www.cypnow.co.uk/news/ByDiscipline/Social-Care/990180/England-learn-joint-working-parts-UK-say-social-workers/

[SirTainleyBarking]

Nothing to hide etc?

Well why do you shut the bog door when you go for a dump then? Is my usual question to idiots who think like that

(My answer to this question is Health and safety.... My guts ain't healthy, so for your safety......)

Now how about looking at S44, and all the other badly drafted bits of knee jerk legislation then chaps. There is 13 years worth out there

[/\/\j17]

"Tory-LibDem government"

Naa - "ConDem government" surely?

[Peter Hewitt]

re: condem

*yawn* I'm bored of this already, it's the new ZanuLiebour

[Anonymous Coward]

I hope the LibDems prevail

It looks like they want to dismantle Labour's worst excesses. There's not much to argue with in that list.

However, the Tories have a plan to rebuild mediaeval Britain; it seems we're replacing the Dark Lord with the Dark Ages. The only thing missing from the Tory plan is the return of the ducking stool for witches.

[The First Dave]

untitled

"doesn't address how the Identity and Passport Service... will be constituted after that Act is repealed"

Actually, it does.

Repealing legislation means that whatever existed before returns to force, and therefore they go back to the same legal standing as before that Act came into force. Don't see any real ambiguity there.

[Alex Osmond]

IPS is a broken organisation

Whatever IPS becomes it needs to be given a thorough cleansing. The current management, almost entirely drawn from the private sector, has no public service ethos and has destroyed morale with constant change initiatives and being dishonest with their own staff about ID cards. They took over the General Register Office 2 years ago and have made a complete mess of it, destroying what was a very successful partnership with local authorities and showing little respect for the experience and knowledge of existing staff.

[Captain Mainwaring]

Driving costs back down

So... No more ID cards, no more NIR, no more fingerprints on Passports, no more major spend on IT infrastructure to support the above. Does that mean that the cost of a UK Passport will come back down again to a more realistic level ?

Fat chance.

[Eddie Johnson]

You Are Thinking Like a Bureaucrat

You are thinking like a bureaucrat if you think the department needs to find a new mission. If it currently finds itself mission-less it should be abolished and its property rented out. A true win-win - cost savings plus income.

Attempting to find tasks to keep unneeded government employees busy is a big part of the problem. Next thing you know they want a budget for their busywork and a few years down the road its been forgotten that they are doing busy work in what is functionally a welfare program. Personally, I think this is what about 50% of government is - totally unneeded but politically unacceptable to cut.

[MGJ]

Well...

Its a different approach to say that since you are now no longer entitled to any services from Government, we dont need to identify you. Nice out of the box thinking, but unlikely to be popular when the cost of every government service rises as it has to provide identity services. Where does it leave the CIOs Standards and Architecture Framework, which I think was predicated on there being a strong cross-Government digital identity service? Direct.gov?

[Anonymous Coward]

WTF?

why should the cost of every guvmint service rise so it can provide identity services? what's wrong with the current systems? or not bothering with identity checks for some things at all? whatever identity checks that are in use are good enough. they work ok *today* without needing id cards and the even more sinister national identity register.

as for some cross-government digital identity service, this was always a fantasy. remember we are talking about the government. the stupid fuckers who have to ask crapita to spell IT for them. the same government that's fucked up every IT projects they've tried: NHS spine, DVLA, previous passport system, DSS, child support agency, VAT, income tax/NI, national offender management system, child protection registers, criminal record systems, etc, etc.

the only reason prices will go up is the country's skint. so charging an extra 50 quid for a library card won't annoy voters as much as putting up duty on fags and beer.

[Anonymous Coward]

Expectant

Well a promising start.

However after a lifetime of politicians lies, I will wait to see it happen before I applaud.

That said, the optimist in me is very pleased and says well done to those involved. Can we make it go away now please?

(How will this impact companies like De La Rue I wonder?)

[Rogerborg]

Oh, purlease

Right now, the Sir Humphreys will be patiently explaining to the new Prefects how Hogwarts^W Westminster really works.

Gentlemans' agreements have been made, and hands have been SHAKEN, young sirs.

[John Smith 19]

@Rogerborg

"Gentlemans' agreements have been made, and hands have been SHAKEN, young sirs."

Perhaps so. In which case it is time to put pen to paper and remind the new boys what their manifesto commitments were.

[Anonymous Coward]

Nothing to hide.

Every time I hear the "If you've got nothing to hide" argument I just say

Me: OK let’s go then.

Them: Go, where?

Me: To your house so I can have a good rummage through all your private stuff. Does anyone have a diary? I think I'll start there.

Unfortunately most of the people stupid enough to fall for the "Nothing to hide." argument don’t get my point either.

Ahh well, lucky I and millions of others were able to think for them isn't it?

[Walking Turtle]

That's likely because...

'Diary' is useless notion to an illiterate. 'Private' is an Intelexual Consept and therefore not worth bothering with. But Loo Sense - even a Sectioned Phule on the Untidy Ward generally has a bit o' that. (See SirTainleyBarking, above.)

Although some few exceptions might also be found. Mine's the one with the Handy Temple-Grade Extra-Strength Joss Stick and Bic® Lighter in the pocket... Thanks.

[Anonymous Coward]

waste of money

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The current passport only changed shape about 4-5 years ago when a chip was added to the book, it now seems from searching around the internet that it will be changed again this year to bring it in line for fingerprint and retina technology systems.

Does this mean that IPS and the labour government have wasted yet more public money to introduce the new equipment which won't be cheap???

I only purchased my passport in august last year and like my car will i have to replace it again as the tax on it has become too expensive???