Sony sued for dropping Linux from PS3

A PlayStation 3 owner has filed a proposed class-action lawsuit against Sony that accuses the console maker downgrading millions of devices by removing their ability to run Linux. The lawsuit takes aim at Sony's highly controversial move last month to disable "other OS" support from older PlayStation 3 consoles. The decision …

[the bat]

was about time someone stood up to SONY

that was reason for going PS3 as well it is like buying a car and being told you're not aloud to drive it (W)ednesdays and on (T)hursdays you can't user right passenger door and (F)ridays you can't turn the steering no more than 30 degrees while going left!

[Anonymous Coward]

Does that mean you can drive it.....

quietly on those days?

[Ottoman]

Nice One

probably some won't get it.

[archengel46]

don't deserve it then

title says it all.

[Brian 6]

Millions of PS3 owners running Linux ???

"...but it is also an unfair and deceptive business practice perpetrated on millions of unsuspecting consumers," the complaint stated. Oh yes all those millions of PS3 owners that were running Linux. I hope this gets Laughed out of court.

[Daniel B.]

Missing the point

The feature removal itself affects *all* fat PS3 owners, regardless of their usage of OtherOS. Thus, the millions of fat PS3s and their owners are the ones being hit by this, and are at least within their right to ask for a partial refund. In fact, some PS3 owners have succeeded in doing this in the UK.

[Anonymous Coward]

re: Missing the point

Not to mention Sony saved a mighty bit on import tax to the EU due to them being able to classify it as a "computer" due to it's OtherOS feature...

[David McMahon]

Nice one

Well spotted

[Anonymous Coward]

tax fraud

I'd really like to see one or 2 Sony UK executives go to jail over tax fraud. Preferably the same ones who should have gone to jail on Computer Misuse Act offences over the Sony CD rootkit which deliberately infected large numbers of PCs used to play their CDs a few years ago.

[Francis Begbie]

Someone works for Sony...

Why on earth would you support a multi-billion dollar commercial company over even one single complainant in this case? Obviously a paid shill.

[Shell]

Ahem

"Imagine if iPhones suddenly lost their multitouch capabilities."

That's a wee bit over dramatic?

When using an iPhone you pretty much HAVE to use Multitouch as part of the Apple UI - so, what, 100% of users?

How many people do you know who actually run Linux on their PS3s? A few hardcore techies? 0.01% of all users maybe?

[Recaffeinated]

iPhone

What if iPhone lost the ability to run apps that were developed so they could also run on "Other OS"? Oh, wait...

[Anonymous Coward]

The suit has no legs.

Using the magic of WayBackMachine. The PS3 EULA from PS3 Launch in 2006..

http://web.archive.org/web/20061206023303/http://www.scei.co.jp/ps3-eula/ps3_eula_en.html

Everyone that has ever owned a PS3 has agreed to the following (regardless of if they read it or not):

"From time to time, SCE may provide certain updates, upgrades or services to your PS3™ system to ensure it is functioning properly in accordance with SCE guidelines. Some services may be provided automatically without notice when you sign onto SCE's online network, and others may be available to you through SCE's website or authorized channels. Without limitation, services may include the provision of the latest update or download of new release that may include security patches, and new or revised settings and features which may prevent access to pirated games, or use of unauthorized hardware or software in connection with the PS3™ system. Some services may change your current settings, cause a loss of data or content, or cause some loss of functionality. It is recommended that you regularly back up any data on the hard disk that is of a type that can be backed up."

If you didn't bother reading it, that's your fault. If a court does not instantly throw this out, and agrees that all written legal documents and EULAS are worthless, then all hell will break loose.

Lets not forget that Sony is not the only one doing this. Microsoft took features away in NXE, Nintendo took features away int he Wii firmware (MP3 playback), Sky removed features in the SKY HD update, my NAS MediaServer had some codecs removed, the list is endless. The only difference of course, is Microsoft are the ones stirring up the Fanboy hornets nest here...

[Annihilator]

re: the suit has no legs

Stellar attempt at understanding contract law. EULA's are not necessarily legal documents, and have been shown time and time to be unconscionable . You can sign a 'legal' document saying it's ok if someone shoots you, but the person who does it will still be arrested. A contract can't override basic laws or rights.

For your examples, Nintendo switched from MP3 to AAC, you can move back if you like without degradation to the product. Your NAS would have carried on working as-is if you'd kept those codecs - you weren't forced to get rid of them. Sky is a subscription service and completely different rules apply (not to mention you could get out of your contract if they changed substantially).. NXE I can't comment on having had no experience of it, but if it's true, why are you happy to be shafted by Microsoft and think that it's ok?

The key thing here is that Sony *forced* people to make a choice - PSN or "Other OS". You could not carry on regardless and refuse to make the choice - it was made for you. Default answer was "no PSN".

If Sony win, what is ultimately being said is that Sony can remove any feature they like, be it BD player, gaming ability, bluetooth and hold you to ransom to do it. Not sure why that's so hard to understand?

[Corrine]

@re: the suit has no legs

Courts have held, repeatedly, that EULAs aren't valid.

Other courts have held the opposite of course.

[Pablo]

Hold on

Tell me, did they agree to that before or after buying the product Sony claimed had "Other OS" support? If it was after it's irrelevant to this case.

[Dan 55]

@The suit has no legs

The Wii update was optional, can be uninstalled, and gave you AAC and choosing the photo in the Wii Menu in return for taking away MP3.

Come to think about it I remember writing the same reply a week or two back to another Anonymous Coward who said the same thing...

[uninventiveheart]

Hold on there, Superguy.

Tort law is still a factor. Companies advertising a feature of a device then removing it from end users after purchase through a remote update may still violate laws and consumer protections.

A EULA can state "Anyone who purchases this device shall lose citizenship in their present country and agree to become a legal resident of Kiribati, observing all laws, fines and fees therein of the immigration process." It doesn't mean it's enforceable.

Companies who make promises then reneg on them, regardless of the EULA, usage (or non-usage) of the feature, or corporate concerns against it's user base do things like this for a simple reason: in case of a class action suit, they're prepared for the damages, if any would result. They know what's coming, they'll play their role, and if they lose, they'll pay.

Another certainty, of course, is how many people who read class action notices mailed to them and ignore them like they're a Jury Duty notice. Again, they're prepared for the outcome.

[Anonymous Coward]

Good post

It should encourage people to read contracts.

HOWEVER - it's not on the outside of the box. Unless you have the right to return the device for a full refund (which I doubt in the USA) because you didn't like the contract, then it's unreasnoble.

Besides, didn't I read on El Reg (but failed to find using search) that the US Army bought 1000s of PS3s to run Linux ?

[Gary Turner]

Military purchases 2200 PS3s

I didn't find it on ElReg either, but CNN reported it.

http://scitech.blogs.cnn.com/2009/12/09/military-purchases-2200-ps3s/

"The justification review states the systems will run a proprietary Linux-based operating system," (in a supercomputer cluster)

[Lou Gosselin]

RIP Other OS

It was a great initiative, allowing the end user to maximize the capabilities of their gear.

It was a cool feature while it lasted.

[Frank Bough]

Agreed but

the PS3 doesn't have enough RAM to make a good PC, unfortunately. Add to that the inability of LINUX to access the PS3's powerful gfx hardware and most of the point of running Other OS was lost.

I still don't know why Sony doesn't give the PS3 a nice email client, it would become quite a useful little thing. I use mine mainly as a BD player and PVR and it's genuinely excellent.

[P Zero]

Go dude!

Give 'em what for!

[Daniel B.]

Hey, what took them so long?

I've been expecting this since, well, the 3.21 FW "downgrade" was released. Come on "hackers" ... give 'em hell!!!

[Annihilator]

Go Tony, go!

100% behind this man. Though I assume I'm precluded as a British citizen from joining said class action, and due to there being no equivalent in UK law, I'm on my own.

[Mr Common Sense]

It doesn't mean its's the only way.

If enough people pooled their cash to win a lawsuit and set a precedent thus enabling others to go after them.

[Captain DaFt]

Orrr...

You could drop a missive to your local government official, querying whether said removal of functionality now retroactively downgrades the system from "computer" to "games system", and as such renders Sony liable for millions in unpaid VAT?

(Yes, I am that big a bastard, after all, I learned from the best!)

[Dave Bell]

Er, careful...

Last I saw any of the paperwork, you paid VAT in the UK on both, at the same rate. But you can't advertise a games console at a price "+VAT".

Still, I'm sure there are places where there might be a difference in the tax rate, but who would be liable?

[Bill Neal]

Yep

I'll sign onto that one if given the chance.

I WAS running Fedora on my PoS3

[Paul 77]

Still running...

Still running Ubuntu on mine - haven't played games on it (I only own two anyway) since the firmware change was announced.

I do hope this persuades Sony to reconsider this action.

[tempemeaty]

Sony does't ethics much do they....

I still remember when Sony "root kitted" their paying customers Windows computers with it's products. Will Sony ever change?

[asdf]

stupid freetards

Why don't all these freetards STFU and realize the mega corporations do know whats best for us and only offer these products to us out of the goodness of their hearts and for that we should be grateful. We are only leasing the hardware (not Truly ours) as a status symbol. Being a good consumer that follows the ever changing rules and doesn't question is what allows our almighty never wrong capitalist machine to function. Remember it is more important to get on the right company bandwagon and defend it to the death as a loyal fanboi that to question any supposed right we as the little guy consumers are giving away forever.

[Dr. Mouse]

lol

Love it! Sarcasm at it's finest (or at least I hope it is...)

[motoh]

Where do I sign up?

Been trying to find information on this suit, so that when it does acquire class action status, I can join in.

EULA isn't a legal document, it's a deterrent. I want my system back.

[The Original Ash]

Don't sign up

Take them to small claims court. Either they'll not bother to show up and the default judgement will be in your favour, or they will and you can (at least in the US) claim for punitive damages and legal costs. It might cost you some time and money, but it's better than the "We offer you a $10 gift voucher for Sony products, without admitting culpability or liability, or any wrongdoing." out-of-court settlement this class action lawyer will accept, making himself a tidy couple of million dollars in the process.

5000 small suits sends a *much* bigger message, and hurts Sony more, than one easily dismissable case.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes sir!

Sony is being unreasonable and shouldn't force its consumers to make a choice between PSN and Other OS, at least until their native browser gets better. FF on PS3-Ubuntu is actually awesome and works very well - that was my primary reason for running OtherOS. People who think that 0.0001% of the PS3 population run Other OS are delusional Sony apologists - Ubuntu on PS3 is easy to use and works very well. Those who still haven't 'downgraded' their consoles should try it sometime before rejecting this as some silly exotic corner case.

[Anonymous Coward]

Pathetic

Nobody cared about OtherOS, everyone called it gimped without direct hardware access. Now there is a hint of a cash refund (if you believe 2 sites that claim Amazon and Game gave a partial refund) every is claiming they cared, or used to run OtherOS.

The fact is, and any quick website search will validate this, PS3 forums with OtherOS boards were totally dead, nobody was using it.

Also it was never an advertised feature. It was never used in any formal Sony promotional material, and is not really a core console function (so is not really like "taking Blu-Ray playback away").

Some people need to get a grip and stop being pathetic crybaby freetards. They accepted the terms of use, they also accepted the terms of service and were happy to accept numerous firmware updates that "changed the consoles specification" for the good, however the one time there is a negative step, they all throw their dummys out the pram.

Perhaps they should be venting their anger at the hacker that caused all this, rather than wasting their time and effort in a lawsuit that is clearly destined to fall at the first hurdle.

[Anonymous Coward]

your logic is flawed, your opinions are ill-considered and aggressive

"Nobody cared about OtherOS, everyone called it gimped without direct hardware access."

"Nobody" and "everybody": making sweeping generalisations does not prove your point; where's the evidence for the claims you make?

"Now there is a hint of a cash refund (if you believe 2 sites that claim Amazon and Game gave a partial refund) every is claiming they cared, or used to run OtherOS."

This is an ad-hominem attack; where is your proof that people are acting with this motivation?

"The fact is, and any quick website search will validate this, PS3 forums with OtherOS boards were totally dead, nobody was using it."

Idle forums do not prove that nobody was using it. There's plenty of evidence that many people were using PS3's in this way; aren't there a number of research projects using clusters of PS3 for number crunching? Why should these people be denied the ability to use the hardware they have paid for in ways that they want?

Why go to the trouble of removing something nobody was using?

For "security reasons"? This needs to be justified by explaining what insecurities are being exploited and why they cannot be closed another way.

"Also it was never an advertised feature. It was never used in any formal Sony promotional material, and is not really a core console function (so is not really like "taking Blu-Ray playback away")."

So?

"Some people need to get a grip and stop being pathetic crybaby freetards."

"they all throw their dummys out the pram."

Do you think that your argument is made more credible by vicious, petty and judgemental attacks on people you don't know? A counter-argument would be that these people are anything but cry babies because they are standing up for something that they believe is unfair.

By making your attack so personal makes it look as if you have something to lose from this lawsuit. Is that so?

[Test Man]

Fool

If you think that attack was personal, you don't have a clue. The only people who have something to lose from the lawsuit is the people jumping on the "OtherOS is gone so Sony should pay" bandwagon... like you. It's amazing how people like to moan about some feature they clearly didn't use.

[Anonymous Coward]

@ "pathetic" AC

"however the one time there is a negative step,"

you said it there yourself... it was and is a negitive step so i want some recompense...

as for previous updates, they fixed stuff that needed fixing. And I never accepted any terms.... i think my 13 year old kid brother did when he first plugged it in....

just checking all my stuff is still there in my pocket.....

[Anonymous Coward]

As if Piracy is the real issue

I really dont think it matters now whether you can run linux or not now, the fact is that geohotz has access to the hypervisor (unrestricted as i recall) and that should be enough to allow modchip makers to potentially make a mod chip. As soon as they do, sony will undoubtably release another fw update to counter it. Linux has naff all to do with it. Besides, you seen the price of a blu-ray burner and media and surely to god the disks have other protection. Its taken (george)him 2/3 years to unlock the PS3. I bet a bank vault wouldnt last that long against a hardened safe cracker.

Now, i have a fat PS3, it runs yellow dog linux. Its the only time i've EVER installed linux on any pooter i own. I like linux (i'd prefer to run windows on it but there ya go, cant have everything), its a great media server, mp3 player, web browser, wordy pro etc. etc.

Sony really do think they are above the law and seem to be of the impression that us, the little people will simply roll over and let them pat our bellies. (Insert sound of Mr Babbage, the Family Fortunes Computer giving a wrong answer). I truely hope that they are properly dragged over coals for this. Firstly for shafting us, secondly for shafting the VAT man and thirdly because as a corporation, they suck. I promised i would never buy Sony again years ago as it was clear their quality was dropping at an exponential rate. Hell, i paid 60 quid for my fat ps3 and then 50 for a laser unit which i didnt mind as i wasnt paying sony anything. My games come off ebay so once again, Sony get no money from me! Thats a situation i intend to maintain. The PS3 sits doing nothing these days as its not getting turned on until this fiasco is sorted.

Sony can suck my balls.

[Test Man]

Clueles

You clearly don't have a clue, as it was a complete myth that they tried to "shaft the taxman". You really need to get a grip on your silly anti-Sony rabid nonsense. I mean you say you're not going to turn on your PS3 till it's all sorted, what silly pathetic action is that really?

[Anonymous Coward]

@ Test Man

Awww, you really love your PS3 don't you?

Never mind, just keep ranting like an adolescent fanboi and I’m sure all these people with nasty opinions about Sony will just go away.

[I didn't do IT.]

You DID have an argument

... until you conveniently validated every complaint Sony has for turning off "OtherOS"...

Sony (apparently) doesn't have a problem with people selling off old equipment to others; heck, how else are people going to be able to afford the latest and greatest of the East? But proudly(?) trumpeting how you pirate the software at all costs simply drops the floor out of the validity of any argument you had.

Sony WANTS to hear more of this from people like you - like the wail of tortured souls of the damned, you fuel the infernal engine of Sony's claims. Please note that Sony will probably decline to suck your appendages and simply pat your belly, since you are rolled over anyway.

What Sony did was NOT ethical and it was NOT fair. You can't throw stones if they are all single sheet paper (pirated) copies...

[dr_forrester]

@I didn't do IT.

Try again. The comment says "My games come off ebay..." This is not piracy. The courts have long established the concept of right of first sale - that is to say that once you purchase an item, you are free to sell it used, loan it out, rent it, etc. This doctrine is what permits libraries, used book stores, movie rental stores, and so forth to remain open.

On a semi-related note, one of the reasons I don't buy a console is that I have the odd notion that I should be able to write software for a computing device, and to run that software without paying a licensing fee to the manufacturer or risking prosecution for circumventing DRM.

[Anonymous Coward]

The EULA issue

The problem with relying on the EULA is that it means absolutely nothing until it has been tested in a court of law. If the EULA, or at least the relevant parts, are found by the court to be legally unenforcible then Sony lose. Of course a court may find in their favour and they may win. The weird thing is that companies pay lawyers fortunes to write EULAs and these EULAs are often found in court to be invalid. So why do companies continue to trust the lawyers who write this crap?

If I were paying somebody to write and EULA I would do so under a very simple contract. A contract which stipulated clearly and in plain english that the lawyer would be liable for any costs arising from any part of the EULA being found by a court to be invalid.

[Gary Turner]

It doesn't need to be valid

Neither the company nor its lawyers expect EULAs to be enforceable. Companies write EULAs to intimidate consumers by using lots of legalisms that cause confusion, and by making it more difficult and expensive to challenge them.

Sony has long since (the root kit fiasco) proven itself to me to be an unethical company. Now it has taken it upon themselves to remove an existing feature from a product already sold to its customers. It doesn't matter whether the customer knew about, cared about, or used the feature; it was a part of the product he bought. Sony is stealing, and I believe it will defend itself with its EULA.

Were Sony an ethical company, it would restore the feature on existing machines, and if it wishes, sell future degraded versions without that feature.

[Anonymous Coward]

Just walk away

For what it's worth, I have a PS3, It's ok i guess, nothing revolutionary, I don't use the "Other OS" functionality. The PS3 oozes potential, but it's mainly untapped.

Really it feels like I bought this cool device and I'm just not getting much value out of it, simply because there's just nothing that good available for it. The last game I bought (EA's Dante's Inferno) which looked and played great but the game was broken, it was so glitchy it was impossible to get through certain levels, even after updates were applied. This is on a console with a game that has been patched!?

I don't know if Xbox 360 is any better, but I really don't like the idea of Sony removing functionality after I have bought into their product.

There also seems to be a real need by Sony to get everyone onto PSN and buy different clothes for the characters in games. WTF is that all about! If I want to play dolls I'll buy a Barbie (for the record, I don't want to play dolls). Sony have really lost the plot of what their core market wants.

I won't be buying any other Sony products.

[Tom 7]

Wake up to the real world

This is modern business. Just because you pay lots of money for something doesn't mean you own it!

BB - you can only use the bits your ISP lets you

Music industry is working on pay as you listen so you will have to pay everytime you listen to your favourite track or youre a freetard.

Windows - on license

Your PC - see above - you have to upgrade when MS need a cash injection.

These are all apparently modern innovative business practices. I'm just waiting for Monsanto to demand your gut is separated from your stomach so you have to eat twenty times as much of their products to live.

If you dont like it go buy a government or two - they did.

[Danny 14]

not really

I thought that this "remove other os" happened when you did an update. Are you forced to update your PS3? I know online gaming probably wont happen if you dont upgrade but if they dont force you to upgrade then I cant see the issue legally.

[AlnilamE]

If you don't update

You lose the ability to play future PS3 games and Blu-Ray discs.

Whichever you chose, you are losing a feature that you paid for, and could reasonably expect to maintain until your console died a natural death.

[Anonymous Coward]

re: Sony does't ethics much do they....

Seems you have the Microsoft version of history there matey..

Sony BMG distributed it, but First4Internet created it (and created the subsequent Rootkit backdoor)..

You might want to check your facts before you make youself look like a drooling idiot.

[I didn't do IT.]

Re: Microsoft version of history

It seems you have a mordern revisionist version of history as well, or simply incomplete.

First4Internet created it at the *behest and specification* of Sony BMG (http://www.wired.com/politics/security/commentary/securitymatters/2005/11/69601). The programmers do share a bit of the blame, but they were simply the Dr. DRM that hypocondriatic Sony ended up with to finally give them what they wanted... uh... were certifiably in need of.

It is also interesting to note that Sony attempted to foster off attention from this by suing Amergence (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/07/16/sony_bmg_sues_amergence/), its previous Dealer... uh... Dr. DRM for simliar, though less sophisticated, results.

Oddly enough, if I may add, Microsoft has nothing to do with any of this... MS has its own yoke of blame to carry, mind. Sony is just ensuring its is getting to a comfortable tonnage.

[Anonymous Coward]

sony baloney

Root - Kit Anyone?

[Joerg]

"George Hotz, aka geohot"=Sony employees

And that's it. Isn't it enough to explain it all?

It's kinda obvious. It's 2010 and people are still so naive and ignorant about anything involving IT that still believe that hacking and cracking complex DRM protection schemes and decrypting encrypted codes would be so easily that either a bunch or a single teenager or little kid would be able to do it... Yeah, sure.. in your urban myth dreams maybe...

Reverse Engineering of DRM protected and encrypted codes it's one of the most difficult and expensive things to do and it would usually require a team of talented, very well paid professional designers,programmers and engineers with many years of experience in the field.

But people nowadays still believe that hacked/cracked/jailbroken firmwares and such for PSP, iPhone and now PS3 would be made by so called "hackers".. the marketeers myth of teenagers computers wiz to hide the viral marketing tactics of Companies/Corporations spreading cracked firmwares and modchips to let their customers and potential customers play "pirated" copies in order to just sell more hardware=higher profits.

This is the only truth. But you can keep believing the myth dreams and see pink cows flying around if you wish...

[Gary Turner]

Wow!

Pretty good for a twenty year old kid: lead hacker for Sony.

The fact is, a large number of these exploits are developed by individuals, usually with a small network of like minded friends to bounce ideas off. These are guys who can read machine code like you or I read a Dick and Jane primer.

[Anonymous Coward]

bought and paid for

Seems like you paid for this feature,

and to take it back is sort of like

"a car dealer taking back your radio, after the lease is up...

"Did'nt you read the fine print?"

It Is THEFT!

Pure and Simple.

[thefutureboy]

I'll have £50 please

Whoever all the way up there said it was to do with import duty is spot on.

Also, you can decide not to upgrade at the cost of not being able to log into the PSN. Now, whether that is fair or not is a another question!

And thirdly, if the chap wins I'll happily accept a cheque for £50 or so for the loss of the ability to install another OS!

[Scott Mckenzie]

Go those 40 people

That actually use Linux on the system....

It'll fail, no chance... you didn't have to upgrade to the system, you could have stayed where you were, but yes, there would have been other functionality losses - so you have to make a choice.

*pats Xbox 360*

[AlnilamE]

That is what I did.

But I should I lose functionality I paid for whichever I chose? When they announced the Slim wasn going to have the option, I went out of my way to get a Fat PS3 because I wanted to have it.

Sony at the time said the option would continue to be available on older models.

Less than six months later, they changed their minds.

[Anonymous Coward]

bought and paid for

Seems like you paid for this feature,

and to take it back is sort of like

"a car dealer taking back your radio, after the lease is up...

"Did'nt you read the fine print?"

It Is THEFT!

Pure and Simple.

PS: THIS Changed my mind about that $ony Net TV too!

VOTE WITH YOUR WALLET, SHOW THEM THEY SUCK!

[Anonymous Coward]

Done that already

We had a chat with our friends. So far, this stunt has diverted the purchase of 5 LCD TVs, 3 high end laptops* and a video camera on the personal side. No data on the companies we work with.

(*) it triggered a decision to switch to Macs, which I can agree with on one side, but OTOH makes this switch less "Sony" and more "Windows".

[Anonymous Coward]

Sony in panic mode on their forum too

Now they have started deleting entire threads of complaints on the EU PS3 forum..... They make sure the fanbois troll the discussions and flame left and right and then Sony moderators use that as an excuse to close and DELETE threads.

I really really hope Sony is going to pay £££ in damages. But unfortunately the reality is that they have probably weighed the impact of pirated games against out of court settlement for this thing and set aside a bugdet to deal with the problem.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, but you can't budget for reputational damage

The whole reason we struck Sony off the list of approves sources is simply trust. If I buy a car with all the accessories, I don't want to walk to my car and find they swapped the alloys I paid for with steel rims. I took a decision based on a feature set, and instead of having two features I now have to choose between not using the other OS option or not being able to watch later Bluray movies.

Screw that - it's a clear case of what happens if someone else has control over your purchases..

[Anonymous Coward]

IANAL but...

....I believe that the law in the EU regarding EULA's state that often they are an "unfair imposition of terms" as you only 'agree' to them once you have already bought the product. There are no signatories or agreement prior to purchase and therefore EULA's hold little to no weight under contractual law, much the same as any other post-purchase disclaimer.

[Anonymous Coward]

re: IANAL but...

That's where it gets interesting...

PSN feature has it's own seperate Terms of Service, that people agreed to when the decided to use PSN.

You can buy a PS3 and use it for games, movies and the features advertised on the box. You also have the OPTION of agreeing to PSN terms, and using it online...

[Red Bren]

WRONG!!!

"You can buy a PS3 and use it for games, movies and the features advertised on the box."

Games will refuse to play unless you have the correct (at time of release) firmware installed. That's why updates are included on the game disks. It won't be long before the choice to keep "Other OS" means just playing old games.

I bought a PS3 to play games both on and offline as well as run linux from time to time. That was how it was sold to me. That is what I expect it to do.

[Richard Porter]

re: Wake up to the real world

There are such things as "unfair terms and conditions". Suddenly disabling functionality that the end user paid for may be regarded as unreasonable whether or not it was permitted by the EULA.

Anyway perhaps someone will come up with a crack that allows gaming without disabling OtherOS.

[Anonymous Coward]

A user shoulnd't have to hack to keep a PS3 "as bought"

Excuse me, there is no way I am going to work around a problem Sony has (IMHO) illegally removed. That's like being OK with the fact that two years after purchase they'll take the doors out of your car and you're OK with some plastic sheets to keep the rain out.

I deliberately haven't upgraded yet because I want to watch this for a few more weeks. If Sony remains stupid I will get together with a few people while an investigative judge is watching (or someone from a consumer organisation) so that charges can be brought properly.

Retroactively changing the features of something you buy is by no means acceptable, and there isn't a contract model in the world that makes that reasonable. As far as I can tell I didn't agree to retrospectively inflicted damage to my console, and you can't call the EULA a reasonable and balanced contract if it blackmails me into agreeing because otherwise OTHER features won't work (by now the collection includes playing bluray, games and networked games).

Sony ought to hang for this properly, this is unacceptable. What's next, disable the gaming facility because someone killed themselves playing too long? Stop the console from working until I pay them money again? Enforced en camera karaoke to Hail Hitler before it starts up? Don't forget that if they get away with this one you've set the precedent for worse.

No . friggin^. way. This has seriously pissed me off. It's not a world shocking event, but this is part of the creeping death of control the likes of Jobs' are also trying to impose, and there is just no way I'm going to nod and let it pass without a fight.

And I intend to fight *VERY* dirty.

[Anonymous Coward]

@AC talking about First4Internet

oh dear.. you have been trolling the Sony forum with the same argument (and the same offensive remarks).... People pointed out several times that if Sony commissioned the rootkit to a third party and then sold it bundled in a Sony product, that doesn't mean that the Sony has nothing to do with the rootkit. Once again: if I buy a Dell (or Sony) laptop and the battery explodes, the fact that the battery has been manufactured by another company makes no difference; it's still a part of a Dell or Sony product and they are liable. You have been explained this simple concept several times but your only reply is that people are "idiots". Is Sony paying you to post this non-sense?

[jon 72]

Screw Em

Sick & tired of this phrase..

"..reserve the right to change the rules at any time without telling you."

You see this in practically every EULA nowadays, I've even found the above wording in Shorthold Tennacy Agreement!

[Harry]

Re "Take them to small claims court."

Reasonable idea, but not quite correct. If the buyer is in the UK, it is only the SELLER, not Sony, that you might have a legal claim against.

But the seller might reasonably be able to claim that the device *did* have the capability when he sold it and I'm not sure you can hold the seller responsible for the unexpected subsequent action of a third party (Sony).

Nevertheless, the buyer only has a contract with the seller and not with Sony. So unless you bought the item direct from Sony the UK small claims court probably isn't a viable option.

[A J Stiles]

No need for the civil courts

In the UK, there would be no need to use the civil courts.

What Sony have done is straightforward vandalism towards other people's property, in breach of the Criminal Damage Act 1971, section 1.

[Anonymous Coward]

I like that one, thanks

You're right. The only challenge in the UK is to convince a cop to actually act on it. Come to think of it, if their EULA doesn't explain they're about to nuke a feature you could probably club them with the Computer Misuse Act as well..

Whatever, the deserve a large tonne of bricks for this one. As I've said before, this destroyed trust in Sony as a supplier so I will never buy from Sony again, and we took them of our sourcing list. Most of our friends have taken that decision too, because even after push back they seem to not get the idea that you now cannot predict what's going to disappear next. This is backstabbing the customer and there is only one viable response to that.

[Colin Mountford]

VAT myth

As no one has already pointed out this, the VAT loophole applied to PS3 was and is a myth. Although Sony might have thought of trying to claim PS3 was a computer (as they did with PS2) they never bothered to follow through. It was already clear from the PS2 judgement that they could not get away with advertising it as a games machine and then selling it as a computer.

Off topic: No idea how that applies to Alienware PCs though - maybe that is why they are so over-priced?

As a PS3 owner am slightly miffed about the removal of Linux. I was waiting for a long weekend without wife and any decent new games to try the install so I can do proper web browsing on my PS3. Have to find something else to do now; probably install it on my PC.

Can I sue Sony for wasting PC disc space and resources <troll>?

[No, I will not fix your computer]

letters and/or digits.

OtherOS came in at 1.60 and out at 3.21 and only for specific PS3 hardware, also in the instructions they state "Sony does not......directly support a version of Linux for the PS3", regardless of how cool it is to do and even if it's the reason you bought a PS3 it's not a feature integral to the PS3 and trying to sue for $5m is likely to fail, I can't see a judge being sympathetic and when the legal position isn't clear that's what you need.

For me it's cut and dried, the same as M33 firmware for a PSP, some people will use it to run homebrew/custom apps but;

1. Sony won't make any money out of it (PSx hardware is usually sold at a loss)

2. Custom firmware/OS is often used to avoid paying for software

It's a bitter pill, but Sony is just protecting it's revenue stream, like it or not but this is what will be considered in court.

[AlnilamE]

Sony put the option in

And you could install Linux on all Fat models that had 1.60 or higher (until 3.21 came out).

Thatś probably what kept the PS3 from being hacked for so long anyway.

And this is not going to protect their revenue stream, as now there is greater interest in hacking the PS3 than there was before this came out.

Someone at the PS3 forums pointed out that the PS2 was the most hacked console, and yet the game sales were great (and still are reasonable, 3.5 years after the "replacement" came out).

[Anonymous Coward]

Title Required

While I agree Sony are fools for removing it, do you actually think you will see a penny out of them if this fella wins his case?

Will you fuck, Sony will just reinstate the feature!

I wish they would pay out a bit for removing it, I have a Fat PS3 and wouldn't mind £50 or so back, but it ain't going to happen!

And all this Xbox vs Playstation Fanboi stuff is just pathetic. Get a grip.

[AlnilamE]

That's my desired outcome

I don't want money from Sony (although I wouldn't mind them having to pay a fine to the FTC or something).

I want to be able to go on the PSN, play new PS3 games and maybe play Blu-Rays without losing my OtherOS.

[Fred Flintstone]

It's the principle

You took a purchase decision based on a feature set. Maybe yours didn't include "other OS", but mine did, and not only that, I put the time in to make that work.

Now I find a classic double glazed selling is going on: I didn't get a system as described, only they delayed that change until after the time I could go after them under the original contract laws. There should be no way ANYONE finds that acceptable, because you're setting a very dangerous precedent. I buy goods because they have a feature set I want - if that set of capabilities can be changed after purchase I consider that deception, vandalism and possibly theft and will act on it as such.

[Anonymous Coward]

Title Required

A lot of people are saying its the principle, whilst perhaps true, most people are just kicking off because they are under some illusion that they are owed a partial refund.

Most of the real whiners never touched the feature, they are just jumping on the 'I want a partial refund wagon'.

As always though, sucks for those who did use the feature for legit reasons. Its always a hand full of dicks that ruin it for everyone else.

[Turtle]

No real insight required

"Sony claimed it was neutering the devices for "security reasons," but a more transparent explanation would have been they didn't want to face the wrath of game makers and film studios who were worried their content would be much easier to copy."

Both the reason Sony gave, and the "more transparent explanation" your insight attained, seem to be pretty nearly equivalent.

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry - Different point of view

When most of us around here say "security", we mean the ability to enjoy our machines free from unwanted interference, whether that be from malicious individuals attempting to commandeer our information or hardware for nefarious use, or if it is the original manufacturer attempting to do the same.

Not the idea of "security" being a tight reign on a revenue stream at the sacrifice of the users, especially when it has no bearing or hiderance to media pirates.

[Robert Hill]

Sounds like the villain

Is George Hotz...he is the one that screwed up the Other OS feature by effectively making it a cracker OS, not a hacker OS.

But funny enough, I don't see a single person here actually criticizing him for screwing it up for the rest of us by perverting what was a cool option into a method of stealing software...funny that. Instead, in a model of irony, you all jump on SONY, as if somehow they were complicit.

What did you expect them to do, see the market for PS3 software be blown out by unrestricted copying (as happened to the PSP), and have the stream of titles dry up (as happened to the PSP)? Somehow, is THAT a better fate for you PS3 owners than the loss of Other OS? For 99.99% of the users, I highly suspect not....

[Dan 55]

Re: Sounds like the villain

No, I expect them to patch the bug properly.

If someone finds a bug in the media player or the USB ports which can be taken advantage of, would that also make sense to disable those features?

I hope the system is well designed, otherwise you could be left with a brick in about a year.

[Vladimir Plouzhnikov]

You're wrong

Why should he be critisised for breaking a system whose sole purpose is to prevent the user from controlling the machine as he wants?

DRMs don't protect from copying. In fact, it seems that DRMs actually promote unauthorised copying and that software products do not need to be protected beyond the basic unlock key, if at all.

DRMs are there to prevent the use of the product in ways that were originally not anticipated/foreseen by the vendor (which he has no moral right to do) and to enforce uncompetitive pricing and charging practices (which is outright illegal in any other industry).

[Robert Hill]

Give it up...

You freetards are a lost cause, and a losing cause. "Uncompetitive pricing and charging practices" according to WHOM? Sony PS3 games cost no more than for any other console, or even the PC version.

The fact is you are just too much of a loser to actually buy the games and software you want. Tough titties. Go and get a life, be productive, and buy what you want like MEN, not criminals. I am TIRED of freetards whinging about how anything that costs anything is the result of 1) illegal pricing or 2) anticompetitive markets. How about 3) - people DESERVE TO GET PAID FOR THEIR WORK. They have families to raise, kids to school, retirements to plan for. They do that by actually charging for the products of their minds and their time, not giving it away to losers like you that can't be bothered to contribute to society to actually pay for anything.

And YES the vendor has every freakin' right to limit whatever they want, because he (or his staff) had the brains, guts, and balls to actually build it, not spend their time wanking to downloaded porn or whatever it is you do rather than actually earning money to actually function as a viable economic unit in a modern society. Man up.

Broken Blu-Ray DRM yet? As I said, a losing cause...

[Daniel B.]

Fair-rights use

Copying for personal purposes is legal - there was a huge battle over this back in the 80's. That's the main reason you can tape Dr. House or whatever show you want from TV without being a "copyright infringer". This is supposed to apply to all media, even DVDs and Blu-Ray, so you can have personal copies for, say, your mp3 player or watching on your mobile device. Some DRM schemes have actually enabled features like this.

Sony PS3 games are overpriced, but then *all* the frickin' games are overpriced, not just the PS3 ones. I've bought every single game, and the PS3 games are uncrackable because of technical limitations; we don't have the "special hardware" to write the encryption keys for BD. Get it? it is FUCKING IMPOSSIBLE to make a workable ISO for a Blu-Ray disc. There are not going to be pirate games for a long time. OtherOS isn't going to "break" the protection scheme, and those of us who want to use it aren't "freetards" wanting everything for nothing. All I want is to use the CellBE processor to do experimental stuff, I don't want to run shady ISOs of pirated games (which don't exist) or cracking Blu-Rays (which is useless, AACS changes keys and you should know this).

Stop trolling dude. Not every guy who knows how to program more than your average PC/Mac user is an "evil hacker" or a "freetard".

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank you..

.. for showing how completely off the planet you can be.

I do not pirate, nor do I encourage it. However, if I buy a feature set I damn well want to keep that feature set. The criminal act here is actually Sony's, because they are remotely stealing something I paid for, that was in the formal product description when I bought it, and was an important part of my decision to buy it instead of another device (I have no previous investment, so I bought the console and then Bluray videos and games afterwards). I also invested time in setting up the Other OS, so that time becomes chargeable at the full rate twice (1x installation, and 1x doing it again to recover) if they remove that feature.

I haven't upgraded yet because I will do so with an investigative judge observing - the advantages of working a lot with people that know what real theft looks like.

If you're so keen to wail about lost income you should start reading a bit more stuff from Cory Doctorov, maybe that will give you a clue. So far, you and Sony share the fact that you have none.

[Darkmoon]

Misplaced 'Freetard' flame made you look silly

I agree with your post, and with your point that people should have a right to charge money for software... but fail to see how it is relevant to the topic.

I actually think you've dived in, all guns blazing, without realising what this is about. Do you really think that Playstation users who are upset about OtherOS removal, feel that way because they were hoping to use it to copy games? Not at all, its a legitimate feature enabling you to use the PS3 as a Desktop PC... pretty cool huh? Yeah, I used it and I am very annoyed Sony just took away a part of my system. Doesn't make me a 'Freetard' as you put it.

[Eddie Edwards]

Yeah

You have a valid point, but there is still no effective method to copy PS3 games or even access the GPU, so removing OtherOS does seem premature.

You may agree with Sony's rather paranoid stance over this, through your view of the big picture, but that still doesn't make it right to remove an advertised feature. There's no reason to play apologist for a huge multinational company who are acting within the letter, but not the spirit, of a law which was made before this kind of stunt was even possible.

In summary, you're right, it is better for PS3 to remain secure, but Sony are still cunts.

[John Goodwin 4]

No guarantees

I spoke to Sony head office in the UK and had a long and drawn-out 'discussion' with them over losing my Ubuntu install on the PS3.

My disk space is still set to 10Gb Other OS so therefore I've lost 1/6 of my HDD space. Sony's answer was for me to reformat and reinstall/download all my games. Fine, if you have the time. Not if you have a throttled ISP connection.

Secondly, I asked if Sony could guarantee they wouldn't remove further functionality in future system updates, and the answer was no. Particularly telling, that one.

A great way to shaft early adopters like myself.

[Fred Flintstone]

Cool, thanks

That's good evidence gathering, because the "what's next" question is interesting. Taken to extremes, it would be entirely legal to kill of the ability to play games, and play bluray as well, leaving it just a very expensive room heater..

[steve smith 6]

root kit mongers

Why are you guys buying anything at all from Sony since the root kit business?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd sign into this

this is a class action lawsuit I would sign into...not sure if I can as a UK citizen though... if I can I will.. if not, then perhaps we need a similar UK action.

these companies cannot just strip out features from their devices post sale. its unlawful and would provide a very interesting precedent for other devices/gadgets/equipment.

[Inachu]

Not just consumer but universities as well!

What will become of the PS3 consoles used as server farms or used as a

super computer? those will have their linux/unix software removed as well.

Times do not bode well for these universities.

Sony is on the wrong path.

[stooz]

no one using it

still no comments from anyone actually using the feature? I for one dont give a flying. and no it doesnt effect the prime purpose. to play games. its not like removing touch screen from ipod. its like a new iphone having a slightly different shape destroying the existing clip on accessory market - until they redesign them.

I for one - dont care - nor support the waste of resource allowing it to become a lawsuit.

[Red Bren]

Look closer.

I use it. I've commented.

For most people, the "prime purpose" of the PS3 may well be to play games. But that isn't its only purpose. Would you be happy to find after taking your car in for a service that the stereo would no longer work while the engine was running? It still fulfils its "prime purpose" but you're no longer getting what you paid for.

For someone who doesn't care, you've invested a fair bit of time reading the original article, the various comments and written a comment of your own. That's a pretty active kind of apathy...

[AlnilamE]

I use it as well.

What do you want to know?

[Anonymous Coward]

re: Not just consumer but universities as well!

erm... They don't apply the update and continue to use OtherOS. Server farms any anyone using PS3 in a computational workhorse role don't need to log onto PSN.

Some of the replies here, like this one, are embarrassingly naive, and clearly written by either 13yr olds, or morons..

[Daniel B.]

Yeah, right.

The ones who are pissed off at Sony are the dual Linux/gamer users that both use the PS3 Linux install to do some number crunching, but then switch over to the GameOS and play games. The irony is that the OtherOS removal hits exactly the kind of demographic that is actually giving Sony profits, because they are actually buying games for their PS3. Or *were* buying games; I am definitely not amused at this and have halted my PS3 game purchases for now.

I've been pondering on buying one of the first-model PS3s with full PS2 BC, and get that PS3 to update to the "OtherOS-less" firmware, but I'm not quite sure about doing that. I would still be giving Sony my $$$...

[AlnilamE]

Exactly!

And how many of these people lined up at launch to get their PS3? And then talked up the PS3 when sales were lagging?

These are the people that Sony is spurning.

[motoh]

I cannot fathom

...where all these dogged defenders of Sony's position come from?

Do you guys really see this as freetard whining, and not protection of consumer rights?

If we don't own what we pay for, are you really alright with that?

Or is it just because it doesn't affect you?

[JeffyPooh]

I just updated my PS3 Linux to Ubuntu 10.04...

...and the Sony PS3 OS has completely disappeared from the boot menu.

[wawadave]

Sony rootkitateers...

Sony makers of fine rootkits what else can be expected from a company with out morals?

[Anonymous Coward]

PS3 was a cheap Blu-ray player

I run Linux on my PS3 and use it to play blu-ray disks. I do not have *any* games! Now it seems that (medium-term) I can choose to have only one of the two features that I bought it for. Given that I'm in the US, the class action looks tempting, although I can't say that I like lawyers ..

[wawadave]

Sony can you hear us yet?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v165/wawadave/cor-piratefinger2.jpg

[Wrenchy]

This type of action

sounds like something Apple would do. Offer a function and remove it later at their whim. But like all things Apple, the loyal fanbois would never questions it.

Sony should get their heads out of their a$$es and do the right thing. Restore 'Other OS' capabilities like they originally advertised the PS3 of having.

[Anonymous Coward]

@Wrenchy

Where exactly did they advertise it?

My PS3 handbook says the feature is unsupported, which makes it pretty clear that it's not a core console function...

[AlnilamE]

What the manual says

is that the actual Linux install is unsupported. It lists the ability to install the OtherOS and tells you how to switch back and forth.

That's a feature. Whether itś core or not, is up to the individual user.

http://www.playstation.com/ps3-openplatform/index.html

"There is more to the PLAYSTATION®3 (PS3™) computer entertainment system than you may have assumed. In addition to playing games, watching movies, listening to music, and viewing photos, you can use the PS3™ system to run the Linux operating system."

[Destroy All Monsters]

Kershiing!

Sony can give up with that last paragraph.

Though they might just want to settle and pay out, then change the feature set instead of incurring the wrath of the copycontrol powers.

[Anonymous Coward]

@wawadave

http://i44.tinypic.com/dpx2lj.png

[sT0rNG b4R3 duRiD]

Go lads

Sue the evil mofo that Sony is...

Sony, you hear that? We're coming for you, you bastard!

You better wise up and do the morally right thing!

(I'm looking to get an EU thing going but that's kinda hard given I'm down under at the moment).

[Henry Wertz 1]

Class action, EULA & boycott

You guys claiming "nobody" or "40 people" or whatever use OtherOS, and that it's not worth suing over. THAT IS NOT FOR YOU TO DECIDE. People are angry enough over this to start a class action suit. If it's true that very few people are interested in this functionality that Sony took, the class will be too small and the lawyers can still decide to drop it. If it's big enough to proceed, the class action lawyer and Sony's lawyers will lawyer it out and a judge will decide the merits then, simple as that.

One argument I would like to refute -- the EULA. Again this'll be for the court to decide, but to me this appears to be a CYA (Cover Your Ass) clause so Sony couldn't be sued for a buggy update that loses data and functionality, I would think it would be an unconscionable term in a contract for this to mean Sony could pull ANY functionality at ANY time with no recourse.

As for everyone saying they should boycott Sony for this. First, I agree. Second, don't be surprised! Sony is well known for numerous instances of not supporting the product well post-sale... removing functionality with updates, releasing products with bugs and then NOT fixing them, making products gratuitously non-standard (computers and computer peripherals in particular), and so on. This is truly par for the course for Sony, I already avoided Sony products even before the PS3 came out because of this general behavior.

FAIL icon, because this is a big fail. FAIL on Sony for removing functionality, FAIL on Sony fanbois saying people don't have a case to sue just because they PERSONALLY are not affected, FAIL on other Sony fanbois to assume people are in this ONLY for a cash grab instead of to penalize Sony for improper behavior, and FAIL on people for getting into flame wars over this.

[sT0rNG b4R3 duRiD]

Reality Check

Firstly, lads, I just want to say again, I hope Sony gets sued right and proper.

One thing I would like all of you to consider is what we can learn from this debacle.

Myself, the lesson is, no matter how cool and nerdy it is to have access to a cheap powerpc with copros in it, when the source is one vendor and one vendor alone, who has, at best, ambivalent feelings about said access, do not put all of your eggs into said basket.

I had quite a bit of code written for the cell. It now appears with the fact that the cell is now EOL'ed that this is quite a pointless exercise.

If one is interested, at an amateur level, at high performance computing, at this present time given the uncertainty and more open and powerful (and viable) alternatives, I can no longer recommend the PS3.

Go look at stuff like cuda instead, methinks.

Nevertheless, lads, let's sue the Sony monster FWIW, and if I get to keep my linux and play MW2 online, great!

[Anonymous Coward]

Steve Jobs

did this to protect the iPAD.

OK - I'll get my coat and leave now.

[Anonymous Coward]

Sony FTL

As Thomas Hesse so very nearly said,

"Most people, I think, don't even know what OtherOS is, so why should they care about it?"

Wake up Sony. People DO care when you pull unethical shit like this. If you didn't learn that with the rootkit, maybe you'll learn it with Linux. Here's hoping...

One more reason I would NEVER buy Sony.

[Mectron]

bring Sony down

Everyone planet wide must make sur not to buy any sony products of any kind, but at the same time make sure to dsitribute as much sony IP as possible to completly satured the net with it. This might make sony understand that ILLEGALLY REMOVING FEATURE(S) on a product will not stop PIRACY.

This is 2nd Sony blantant illegal move... (rootkit was the first one). How can this compnay is still allowed to operate.. they need to be shutdown

[Mectron]

@Joerg

i could suspect:

Nintendo to do it, they make money out of every console sold, with that many millions users base they also sell a lot of games, event with a fully cracked WII and a HD full of game, there is game you just go to buy!

Microsoft to do it, they let the free ride for a while then swing the BAN hammer and get peoples to re-buy a new console, rinse, repeat = profits

but Sony? last time i check they are still loosing money on every console sold. They may make the PSP easy to hack because it is a FLOP. but not the PS3....

[Eric Van Haesendonck]

This is required for the precedent.

I think that this lawsuit is required just to avoid setting a precedent. If manufacturers are allowed to change the feature set of their products after a sale is made this is the door open to infinite abuse. If we let this go Sony could for example remove the network play features from the PS3 when the PS4 is released and force you to upgrade just to keep playing online. Of course they would say that it for security reasons, as the PS4 would be much more secure than the PS3...

[sisk]

Saw it coming

I wondered how long it'd be till someone sued over this. Personally I've never used the OtherOS feature on my PS3 but mostly because I've been lazy about it. Getting Linux going on my PS3 was on my todo list for a long time. PS3 OS is pretty weak in some areas that are pretty important for a media center (organization in particular) and Linux would fill that void nicely.

Honestly the legal aspect is just one more reason that removing the Other OS option was a dumb move. There WILL be Linux on the PS3 whether Sony likes it or not (just as there is on the Wii and the 360) and if the people who want it have to crack the thing to make it happen then you can bet your booty that software pirates will come along behind them and pick up whatever crack they use to make pirated games happen to. I really think they staved that off for years by making it so there was no need for the Linux community to crack the PS3.

[Anonymous Coward]

mandatory title

This is all because of Obama.

[Scottie Taylor]

Count me in

Whenever it goes to Class Action status and people can start opting in I'll be more than happy to sign up. I've already filed complaints with the FTC, BBB and my state's attorney general.

I don't want money or a refund. I want my console the way I bought it. With the secondary OS option allowable as well as allowing me to update and play the newer games and blu-rays. In short, the way it was prior to downgrade 3.21

[Furbian]

The customers gets trampled on...

.. one way or another. Some PS3 Fanboys are probably ones who got 'done' over by M$, I'm on my 4th (maybe 5th, lost count) Xbox 360, but we're still on our fist PS3 (over 4 years old) which is only 6 months younger than our first Xbox 360.

The PS3 has been 'loosing' features for some time now. The PS2 backwards compatibility, started out as a hardware chip, then it became a software emulator, and now I think the new PS3 doesn't even offer support for PS2 games (?).

For many the other OS feature, which I never used, was obviously a straw too far. But boycott Sony, ok, and then get what? Buy an Xbox 360? M$ do updates that kill off not just 3rd party addons (I have a now useless Datel Memory Max unit), but even the whole console if it's 'moded'. Apparently even those that just had better fans put in to cool them were banned from Xbox Live, it is assumed they did this by detecting the voltage drawn by the fans.

I started out with an iPhone 2G, bought an aditional charging cradle, some chargers to use in the cars etc. I upgrade to a 3GS, and guess what? The accessories are no longer compatible.

So we tolerate the company that's the least evil. Feature modification, addition and removal are now part of life for the foreseeable 'future', where 'they' decide which features you will have, or not as the case maybe. Remember the Kindle '1984' remote removal anyone?

[Thomas 4]

My 2 penguin's worth

I've been keeping half an eye on the whole Sony/Linux thing for a few years now - came close to getting a full Linux kit for my old PS2 until it gave up the ghost. The people that are really suffering as a result are folks like those at Yellow Dog Linux, who have been working on a PS3-specific version of Linux only to now have all that effort wasted.

Granted I don't if I will get around to putting the Penguin on my PS3 but it's an option I don't want taken away for the most vague and pointless of reasons.

[Anonymous Coward]

4th strike for them, in my opinion...

I had a $200.00 Turtle Beach soundcard,

and after $ony got involved with the software side of it,

Turtle Beach $old out,

and $ony wanted me to shell out $600.00

to keep using the software, except...

I'd be needing to update my software first,

"cept the update (just like any other update)

only DISABLED the Turtle Bitch Soundcard in the process (of course)...

...in the process...of trying to convince me of the need

to upgrade to a $1000.00 $ony Soundcard...

That was Number 1.

$ony made MiniDisc Record/Players that have become

a standard operating device for many audio professionals,

Yet in their wisdom they have repeatedly neglected to update their software

for these products,

and to basically "END the LIFE"

of most of these (EXPENSIVE, I might add) gadgets...

That was Number 2.

My first Multi-Media Computer (Professional level audio/video in/outs),

SADLY was Taken Down by an errant disc played by a EX-Girlfriend,

WITH HELP FROM $ONYs ROOTKIT...THANKS...

(This One Sadly "Took The Cake" for any chance at any more investments by ME TO $ONY)

That was Number 3.

Ps3 No Alternate OS Function, cripples the device,

thus making many more than just me a fool!

That is Strike Number 4!

$onys actions repeatedly show

a "Total DIS-REGARD"

for its customers time, money, and their lively hoods,

that depends on perfectly good and able software and hardware, only to have its functionality ripped out from under their INVESTMENT in $ony..., and on rather short terms

This is just another action by $ont to:

> infringe on ownership rights, ($300.00-$400.00 cost of investment each count...)

> constitutes trespass, (? costs tied to next qualification)

and if any data (ie: programing, saved games, pictures, music...>ANY DATA<) was lost,

> Loss of Intellectual Property.

(My Time Programing, Music, & Photos are gonna cost 'em plenty)

Another Sad Day for $ony...AGAIN...AND AGAIN...

Root - Kit Any One?

$ue $ony...

Where do I sign Up!