back to article iPhone 4.0 SDK bars un-Jobsian code translation

Apple's new SDK for the iPhone 4.0 OS bars developers from accessing the company's APIs through any sort of intermediary layer that translates applications written in ways Steve Jobs doesn't approve of. This will likely prevent the iPhone packager in Adobe's upcoming Flash Professional CS5 development suite from converting …

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  1. Nexox Enigma

    I'm starting to notice a trend...

    This seems mighty familiar to what they just did with advertising. Seems that they're looking at all the ways people can make money off iDevices without going through iTunes, and cutting them down one pie chart slice at a time.

    One wonders what the end goal of pushing all of the world's (from the view inside the Reality Distortion Field) cash flow through the iTunes Store could possibly be. The Universal Bank of Apple? Maybe they're planning to start their own currency (after which they'll surely ban any reference to things like Dollars, Euros, Pounds, Rupies, etc - there will be nothing but the iCoin, with an engraving of His Holyness in his finest black turtleneck.

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

      New currency?

      I wouldn't have problem with that. After all, Jobsthalers would be backed by 30 billion dollar of assets, which is way more than can be said of most governments.

  2. Lyle Dietz

    Control Freakery

    The new language can roughly be translated as "No-one may make money from iPhone development except us".

    Its getting to the point where developing for that platform is a religious experience.

    As an outsider looking in its hilarious. I only follow the iPhone stuff for the laffo.

    1. Michael Brown
      Stop

      So wrong...

      "No-one may make money from iPhone development except us"

      You appear to have forgotten about the millions of iPhone developers around the world making a *lot* of money from iPhone development. Yet more Apple-hater ignorance.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      App-store pays for itself

      Apple is providing an outstanding business opportunity to developers (and other creatives). The money certainly isn't going to Apple - you may recollect that Apple's accounts showed the iTunes store running just over the break-even mark. I think one of the reasons other companies failed to build such a thriving market-place is that were far too greedy, raking off a huge percentage of the profits. It made the market impenetrable to all but the very largest players.

      Why the new language in the agreement? Simple. Just look at the fruits of write-once-deploy-anywhere development on the Mac OS - it sticks out like a sore thumb. I haven't seen a single Java application that looked remotely like it belonged on the Mac, and they are all irritating to use as a consequence. A consistent user interface is a valuable asset for the end user, and I appreciate Apple's efforts to maintain it.

      Write-once-deploy-anywhere sounds attractive, but in practice it has never delivered. And it's surprisingly easy (for a professional software engineer) to develop C/C++ based code that provides most of an application's logic for all platforms and then build a platform-specific UI for each target on top of it. Apple's new wording primarily deflects a festering pile of quick-and-dirty, Flash-based clutter. If that's what appeals to you, I'm sure other platforms will deliver. I won't miss it.

      1. Mei Lewis
        FAIL

        A joke?

        "A consistent user interface is a valuable asset for the end user, and I appreciate Apple's efforts to maintain it."

        That's a joke right? Have you seen their laughable, non-standard, attempts at software on windows?

        1. Rod MacLean
          FAIL

          RE: A joke?

          ...and have you seen Microsoft's stuff on the Mac?

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Jobs Horns

    No Python? Not interested!

    Developers, replace Python with your favourite language in the title above.

    My free time is too precious to waste on the ephemeral whims of some platform tyrant.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Pint

    Objective-C++ also getting the banhammer ?

    Unfortunately, the new ToS also prohibits Objective-C++. Probably just a dumb oversight as they rushed out this tweak. I'm sure some will see it as a hidden agenda to push Apple's new C extensions (blocks) and thwarting C++, but I'm sure it's just a screw-up in legal - afterall, the Xcode SDK directly supports Objective-C++.

    Otherwise, some of us are going to be spending a lot of time on writing C wrappers for C++ code to call it from Objective-C :-)

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Down

    What is their motivation?

    Speculation that this is a move to enhance the quality of iPhone/iPad apps is clearly bogus, since all apps are already individually approved.

    I suspect that what Apple really doesn't like is "write once, run anywhere" apps, since that denies them exclusivity.

    If they want that, then maybe they should offer money to the app developer.

  6. Joshua Goodall
    Jobs Horns

    dementia

    My apps are "originally written" on a whiteboard. As far as I'm concerned, XCode is a translation layer.

    John McCarthy, turning in his grave. At least if he were dead.

  7. Sentient

    Closed OS just got more closed

    Ouch!

    Imagine Microsoft making a similar move. No Java, no python nothing but C++ or a .NET language.

    Why would they want to do this? Performance? Stability? Money?

    I guess what adobe can do is write a compiler that outputs C++ code that then can be compiled to target Jobs API's directly.

    1. chuckc
      WTF?

      Windows Phone 7

      They have already done it. You can only use .NET languages for their new mobile platform...

      1. Will.
        FAIL

        .Net languages only

        Too bad they're being so restrictive, only allowing us to use

        VB

        C#

        C++

        F#

        J#

        IronPython

        IronRuby

        A# (Ada for .Net)

        L# (Lisp for .Net)

        P# (Prolog for .Net)

        Fortran.Net

        Haskell.Net

        Ja.Net (Java 5)

        NetCOBOL

        #Smalltalk

        Those bastards!

        1. chuckc

          Re: .NET languages only

          Well, that's a wide choice of programming languages indeed. Shame that none of them are native, and all translate into their intermediate bytecode. You write C++, but I guess Microsoft will only allow _managed_ C++, which is not really C++ if you want to write high performance games for example. What if the GC stops the world right in the middle of processing a new input event from the user? Look at what Google had to do with Android: they started off by giving devs Java-only APIs and then backed off and allowed native code to be run.

          Whatever fancy name you give it, it is still not native (admittedly it is not interpreted either, just JIT-compiled, but still lthe same thing, so is Python and no one calls it native) and therefore inherits all the problems of running managed/interpreted code: slow, restrictive and, if you use their C++, less portable. I can write an OpenGL app in Linux and have it ported to the iPhone OS in a matter of days unless I use some fancy non-ES API. Can you do that with Microsoft's OS?

        2. Anonymous Coward
          FAIL

          RE: .Net languages only

          So.

          The following from your list are MS only:

          VB

          C#

          F#

          J#

          Ja.Net (Java 5)

          These *might* be useful.

          C++

          IronPython

          IronRuby

          ...but the code is all compiled by Microsoft's commercially offered compiler software. Apple give theirs away for free.

          These are the dribbling elderly relatives of anything that could be used to write a decent phone application. What's more, they're all .Net

          A# (Ada for .Net)

          L# (Lisp for .Net)

          P# (Prolog for .Net)

          Fortran.Net

          Haskell.Net

          NetCOBOL

          #Smalltalk

          And just to reiterate, you have to pay for the compiler for these. It's not cheap. Apple's equivalent is free.

    2. Tom Chiverton 1

      wont work

      That wouldn't be 'originally' written in C++ though.

      1. chuckc

        Re: wont work

        Not sure I get your point. Mine was to say that Microsoft don't allow native code in their OS, therefore imposing an even bigger restriction than Apple to potential developers.

  8. rcdicky
    Pint

    So What tbh

    There'll still be millions of (mostly farting) apps on the iPad store soon

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Down

    I like the iPhone but....

    ....this is getting ridiculous. This level of proprietary lock down would make Bill Gates green with envy. The PR and legal departments carrot and stick approach is impressive - the PR side says 'we're into open standards - no Flash here, just HTML5' while legal lobs these api restrictions at developers.

    At best, petty Adobe bashing. At worst anti-competitive behaviour. Bill should be impressed - Jobs is getting away with stuff he couldn't.

  10. Giles Jones Gold badge

    I can see Steve's point

    Why should the iPhone get loads of lazily coded, poor quality applications written in some bloated high level code and then translated to native code.

    It's not control freakery to have high standards. Just look at Java midlets and mobile Java, it never really took off and was rather crap to look at. Do you really want such trash on your phone?

    1. Solomon Grundy

      Good Point

      That's very valid point. Getting the best performance out of mobile devices requires a better quality/cleaner code.

      I do wish that Apple would just come out and say this though. They are coming off too much like their customer base; highly pretentious douchebags.

      1. JEDIDIAH
        Linux

        Big brother nonsense

        NONSENSE

        as the end user it is up to me to decide what the user experience should be and where the performance tradeoffs should be. In the absence of artificial restrictions ideas can succeed or fail on ther own. It's MY device, not Steves and not bills.

        The degree of cargo cultism here is simply appalling.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          FAIL

          RE: Big brother nonsense

          But it's *not* yours, is it?! At least the software isn't. The fact remains that when you use *software*, you do so under licence--even if it's OSS. Yes, the hardware is yours (no need to shout), so do like your sphenisciform friends and write your own, or use the OSS ones that are available. At no point do Messers Gates, Ballmer, or Jobs hold a gun to your head and make you buy one of their products.

          >"The degree of cargo cultism here is simply appalling."

          I'm sorry, but the Stallmanian ideologues really do live in a fantasy land, with their over inflated sense of entitlement. They way they look down scornfully on those that dare to have differing or, heavens forbid, *contrary* views is what is *actually* disgusting. They love to rant based on *their* idea that everything should be open as some sort of basic human right! Read about what intellectual property is and understand why it's the individuals right to determine how that property is uses and disseminated matters. GNU is just one way. Count yourself lucky that you live in a society in which you have the privilege of freedom, thought and speech in which you *can* make a choice, instead of bitching about a product that you don't like and have no intention of ever using or owing. If somebody else decides that they *do* want the UX to be monitored (read quality controlled), it's up to them. That's the problem with ideologues of all kinds, their's is always the only true path, which is ironic given JEDIDIAH's rant...

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Mobile Java is more sucessful than most people are aware

      There are more MIDlets downloaded every day than iphone apps. It just doesn't get reported since it's spread across a huge number of app stores instead of being funnelled through a single point like itunes.

    3. StooMonster
      Jobs Horns

      Unity3D

      Yeah, but what about the likes of the excellent Unity iPhone?

      Am I supposed to write my own 3D and physics engines rather than use middleware, which is perfectly acceptable and mostly "best practice" in the games industry? This is like Microsoft saying that developers can not use the Unreal engine on Windows, it's pathetic.

      We better get some clarity soon from Apple whether their stupid T&C apply to Unity et al.

  11. Dan 55 Silver badge
    Jobs Horns

    Opera?

    Wouldn't the new terms knock Opera Mini on the head too?

    Who gives a damn how source code is written for the iPhone platform, apart from Jobs who's trying to get rid of the competition obviously. It could be chiselled in stone slabs and then laboriously hand typed and compiled or machine generated in some IDE then compiled but when it's compiled it's still the same thing.

  12. Zolko [none]

    Is this even legal ?

    I bet that this could be challenged in European courts. On the other hand, who would want to do it ? Nokia is probably quite happy that Jobs shoots itself in the foot.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      On what grounds?

      There will be no challenges in court, there are no grounds to challenge.

      Jobs shooting himself in the foot? All the way to the bank he is! Your criteria for success eludes me.

      1. Tom Samplonius
        Gates Halo

        Tied Selling

        Yes, there should be a court challenge. It is clearly illegal tied selling. The EU forced MS to unbundle IE for the same reason. Apple is now the new Microsoft.

        But Apple thinks that they can force you to use their tools. This has nothing to with app "quality", as if Apple even cared about app quality. They individually approve every app right now, and look at the junk they've approved. So there are so many apps right now, after using them, you basically have to restart your iPhone, because they leave the OS in a messed up state.

        But lets say I make a tool that can do GUI development of iPhone. The tool would output Objective-C. But since the "original language" wasn't Objective-C, any apps created with this tool, will not be approved.

        And there is no way that Opera Mini is going to be approved. Some of their code is clearly converted from mainstream Opera, and therefore. But Opera Mini was never going to be approved anyways, as it contains a Javascript interpreter, and that violated Apple's previous SDK agreement.

        This new restriction is about several things: (1) Kill the entire market for iPhone tools, because the only tools you can use are Apple's; (2) Locks apps to iPhone. Objective-C only really exists in Apple land, but it was close enough to C that most people didn't object. What are developers of pop apps like Shazam going to do? They obvious want to port to the GPhone and Blackberry. So they need to write three separate editions?

      2. LetsPlayNicely

        No, it isn't legal

        Imagine if Microsoft said only apps written in C# or VB.net could be run on Windows 7. People would be freaking out, and this is just the same! Come on Adobe, fire up those lawyers.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          RE: No, it isn't legal

          Do you mean WIndows 7 for computers or for phones.

          As far as I can see, that's exactly what they're saying for phones.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          FAIL

          RE: Tied Selling

          " It is clearly illegal tied selling."

          What's tied to what? It's not like Microsoft and .Net. You can't develop for their new phone OS without it. Apple give their development environments away for free. I know, I've downloaded one of them :)

          "So there are so many apps right now, after using them, you basically have to restart your iPhone, because they leave the OS in a messed up state."

          Name one that leaves the OS in a messed up state. I've downloaded 20 at a time and tested each one out. No phone restarting has ever been required. I smell made-up bullshit...

          "But lets say I make a tool that can do GUI development of iPhone. The tool would output Objective-C. But since the "original language" wasn't Objective-C, any apps created with this tool, will not be approved."

          Umm. Your tool outputs Objective-C. You feed the Objective-C into the compiler. There's no running of non-objective-c code on the phone, so this would be allowed.

          "(1) Kill the entire market for iPhone tools, because the only tools you can use are Apple's;"

          That's always been the case. They're FREE though, unlike MS .Net suite. Surely that's a good thing?

          "(2) Locks apps to iPhone. Objective-C only really exists in Apple land, but it was close enough to C that most people didn't object."

          Well, that's been the case since around 1984 or something.

          "What are developers of pop apps like Shazam going to do? They obvious want to port to the GPhone and Blackberry. So they need to write three separate editions?"

          They have always had to. At least in your example they didn't need to pay for .Net because you didn't include the new Winphone.

          I don't think you understood the article. You can compile anything you want for the iPhone, free. You just can't release code that interprets other code. It's that simple.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Clear grounds for challenge

        There are clearly grounds to challenge.

        Apple is using monopoly power in one market (mobile apps) to unduly influence another (development tools / languages for said apps).

        This is exactly what MS got into trouble for and what Google and Apple are trying their hardest to get into trouble for also.

        Whether or not a challenge will succeed at such an early stage of trying to do this, or whether any challenge will actually have to wait until after they have succeeded remains to be seen.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          RE: Clear grounds for challenge

          Apple give their development environment away free, so they hardly have a monopoly. It's not like MS and .Net and their new phones.

          Not having a monopoly means that there is no grounds for any challenge.

          All Apple are saying is "you can't write code that interprets other code, we won't approve it"

  13. Alastair 7

    Very disappointing

    ...if this is true. Flash I care less about, but Appcelerator and the rest of them have been providing a great cross-platform solution to make phone apps. If Apple refuse to play ball then it's back to separate development for every platform.

    Sigh.

    1. Logicub
      FAIL

      Grow up

      You mean, just like it is for Windows, Mac and Linux? Or PS3, 360 and Wii?

      Diddums. If it means you get a better experiance on each platform, who loses? If you, as a dev, are making oodles of money then you damn well better put the effort in to make it.

      Great cross platform development? Sure, for shovel-ware shite that not worth downloading

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Stop

    Its War

    The most elitist company in IT are trying to keep out anybody who doesn't belong to their "exclusive iPhone development elite". Very simple. I've been using Titanium for a while, but even if Titanium are allowed to continue existing under the new TOS, I won't be going along.

    It's a step too far for me by Apple... I don't want to develop exclusively for the iPhone, and I'm not going to fight their fights for them as part of some utterly mercenary developer army.

    Sure that means not getting access to that market place, any ultimately, Apple know the developers don't matter as much as the end customers, but I'd rather be poor and free than wealthy and shackled.

    1. Logicub
      FAIL

      Elite?

      Seriously? Elite? Go Wolfram some figures,The iPhone OS dev community is the largest dev community for *any* mobile platform! Anyone with a Mac can start developing applications, splash out a mere $99 (have you seen what MS are going to charge!?) you could start earning thousands!

      Elite?

      1. Will.
        Grenade

        @Elite?

        Well if you're going to complain about the price barrier of entry to development, do be fair:

        Apple: $Cost_of_cheapest_Mac + $99

        Windows: $Cost_of_cheapest_PC [Visual Web Developer Express for Windows Phone and Visual C# Developer Express are free]

        1. Player_16
          Gates Halo

          We'll say $650 USD all up - Mac Mini.

          Now the Return On Investment on developing for a Windows phone platform at this moment -with WP7 of which is due for release around xmas?

      2. vincent himpe

        anyone with a mac

        and that would be like what ? 0.1% of the wolrds population ?

        Yes i have an iPhone. And i am NOT impressed with the 'apps'. The only one i found worth shelling out money for is Navigon GPS app. And i have two free apps gateguru and the southwest airlines app.

        There is NOTHING ou there that is interesting. games and gimmicks. Where are the 'killer' apps ?

  15. This post has been deleted by a moderator

    1. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      What a joke

      I wish I had 10!

      A joke that makes a whole lot of people happy, a joke that makes Apple loads of revenue, a joke that makes developers good sums of cash too. What a joke, the nerve of the company!

  16. Martin Milan
    Gates Horns

    Nice...

    Just a few reasons why you won't find me working on an application for the iPhone/Pad anytime soon :

    1/ The whole ethos of Apple. When I buy a computer, it's mine. I expect total control of MY device, to be able to install whatever I want. While there could well be some merit in a warning dialog should I ever try to install an app unannointed by his holiness (security), to prevent me from using my machine, my way, is simply not on.

    2/ My opinion of Apple has a company has fallen CONSIDERABLY in recent years. They used to be known for producing very good, reliable, dependable machines. Since moving into the portable device market, they just don't seem to care about quality any more. Their customer service is a joke. I do not wish to be associated with them.

    3/ Seeing as I don't particularly like Apple, I'm not particularly keen to have them leeching of my revenue. I might be tempted if I saw Apple as giving some sort of service, but it seems that whenever there's interaction between Apple and the development community, it's always the developers who seem to be left holding the shitty end of the stick. I don't have to pay Microsoft for the priviledge of releasing software for Windows, so I don't see why I should be contributing to Jobs yacht fund either...

    4/ I'm reluctant to produce an application that Apple can pull out of the market at their discretion. That's a level of commercial risk I simply cannot accept.

    5/ Worse still, they seem quite happy to pull entire development methodologies and platforms - with absolutely no thought for their developers.

    6/ I don't know what the position is now, but I seem to recall that Apple have in the past had a very casual attitude when it came to actually paying their developers their share of the loot.

    7/ Even if I could be bothered to learn Objective-C, my skills are then non-transferable to other platforms. Java / Python - even .Net are much more attrative.

    8/ Android will soon utterly dominate market share.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      Waaaah!

      1) Task orientation is what it's all about. We don't need refrigerators to toast bread, and vacuum cleaners to feed the pet. What we need are task oriented devices which work for the task at hand. If you want a device that does lots of things, fine, go buy one because that's what you want. For the people who don't want it to do everything why should we have to pay buy what *you* want?

      2) Their cusomer service is a joke? Seen the latest poll out? They are #1 in case you hadn't. Your criteria or experiences must be different than their other customers.

      3) You don't have to pay Microsoft but you do have to pay for anyone else that promotes and sells your products. Give me a f*****g break. Apple provides you with a market which their customers *must* purchase products through. You expect that for free?

      I'm too bored to continue addressing your points, moving on. Epic fail.

      1. Martin Milan
        Jobs Horns

        Morning fanboi!

        1/ And if someone does build a refridgerator that toasts bread, does this really haver any effect on you? If people want an app, which people are prepared to write and noone gets hurt, then fine - what's your problem?

        It's about CONTROL, and about taking money from developers for no creative input from Apple themselves.

        2/ This merely tells me more about the standard of customer service satisfaction surveys. Four people in my office have Apple products. One of them (iPhone) is happy, the other four have all had defective equipment and a serious battle with Apple to get them to accept the fact.

        Want to go jogging with an iPod touch, even in a waterproof case? I wouldn't recommend it. Seems like if there's something wrong with a piece of their equipment that's been within twenty miles of a cloud, then water damage is their standard war cry...

        My cheap, generic MP3 player btw? No problems.

        3/ You're right, they do offer SOME services via the market. Suppose I don't want them - suppose I would rather just handle all that myself? That's right - I can't - I'm locked in.

        Well, if you like it, fair play to you. Personally, it's evil. Just my opinion.

        Oh, and I notice you haven't actually got any response to the other points then...

        Martin.

    2. Logicub
      FAIL

      Let's go through that one at a time, shall we

      Wow. This is one of the most amazing comments on this thread! Let's go through one point at a time...

      1) Any Apple computer you buy is yours. Terminal is a wonderful tool that gives you unfettered access to the system. Apple do not tell you what you can and can't do with a Mac.

      2) Apple - #1 for customer satisfaction with Laptops, desktops, and now mobile phones too... For many years with only a few blips away from the number 1 spot. They are very much very reliable, and very dependable.

      3) You need to stop submitting to the App Store of 2 years ago and stop dredging up these old clichés. The App Store approval process, whilst still not perfect, is orders of magnitude better than what it was... All that's asked if you want to make money, and potentially lots of it, through Apples platform, is that you abide by their rules. You don't pay Jobs to submit applications to OS X. Although, you will be giving money to Gates/Ballmer for submitting to Windows Phone 7... If you're making comparisons, at least make accurate ones...

      4) Well, fine. But Microsoft have said they'll be doing it. Even do-no-evil-Google have done it... It's almost standard practise these days. Again, abide by those rules and you'll likely be fine.

      5) They're not pulling anything. Other people have discovered ways of making money by giving other people tools to make shovel-ware, and Apple are trying to reign in some quality standards. If you're using these tools, you are not a developer!

      6) Never heard of this. Neither has a brief Google. Happy to be proven wrong if you have proof.

      7) Objective C is generally used on Apples platform, true, you're still free to use your skills in the lucrative OS X market. Besides, C, which it's based on, is actually kinda popular out there in the real world.

      8) Bu-dum Tsch! Well done for ending on a joke :)

      1. Nexox Enigma

        Customer Service?

        """2) Apple - #1 for customer satisfaction with Laptops, desktops, and now mobile phones too... For many years with only a few blips away from the number 1 spot. They are very much very reliable, and very dependable."""

        I used to work at a help desk, and my boss would assign calls to Apple customer service as punishment for coming in late / hung over / etc. Most of the time the calls went so miserably that he'd feel bad and buy you a pint or two after you managed to waste an entire shift trying to convince someone (Well, a string of someones) that you needed to RMA something that was clearly broken, and clearly within it's warranty period.

        I once spent a month of back and forth with Apple customer service on the phone, and two certified Apple repair shops to get bad memory in a Mac Mini replaced, which I diagnosed in 15 minutes, but which neither repair shop could get right any of the half dozen times I sent it in (They replaced every component except the memory multiple times, and the machine would kernel panic on the first boot every time we'd get it back to our office - they didn't even both testing it.) Eventually we had to get an Apple corporate account, which then let them send a tech 200 miles via car to replace the memory.

        We caught one of those certified repair shops claiming warranty work without actually doing it, and Apple confirmed that they had shipped new parts to the shop, which hadn't made it into the machine, which was still broken, and Apple customer support didn't see any problem with that.

        Plus their non-corporate RMA process /requires/ (well, last time I cared to check) that you pay for overnight shipping, which some how came to $25 to repair, under warranty, a $100 ipod that had died from a known defect.

        Anyone that thinks their customer service is OK has either been lucky, or maybe never had to actually use it. I've had actual nightmares that are based on calling Apple for support. No shit.

      2. Martin Milan
        Jobs Horns

        Ok then - Let's...

        1) An iPhone, iPod and even the leading choice of Apple-Approved sanitary protection are all computers by any defintion that someone with a clue would give you. So, rather than just picking the one platform that Dear Leader forgot to conquer, why not face the fact they if it's Apple and Pocket-Sized, it's as restrictive as a ...... (Self moderated!)]

        2) See above (re the state of surveys these days...). True, Fanboi's love them - but from my own (admittedly small) sampling of the Apple owners, I suspect the truth lies somewhere to the south of their claims.

        3) You know, if you're still hearing the same cliches, maybe that ought to tell you something?

        I'm not aware that Microsoft have plans to prevent me from simply installing an independently developed app without bothering with their marketing system. I can't just drop something on the phone myself? Sure about that???

        4) No - I have the option of not deploying using the Market on Android, and I presume will still have this on the Microsoft platform as well. Unless you know different, in which case let me know because I would be genuinely interested to read it.

        5) So because some people abuse a tool for which their is a perfectly legitimate use, you feel justified in just pulling it? Really? Congratulations - you've just killed the software industry!

        6) Happy to be of some small service - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/05/iphone_devs/

        7) The OS X market isn't all that lucrative - which is actually a shame, because laptops / desktops are one of the things that Apple do well. Unfortunately though, they don't have market share. And yes, I know C. I also know C# and even dabbled with C++ back in the day, all of which means I have little use for Objective C.

        To be honest, things like Java, Python and Ruby are I think where we should be going as developers. Cross platform is important.

        8) Unfog your glasses, and peer a little deeper into the future... A nice, servicable, open source platform. Hmm... Based on one of the most popular languages on the planet Earth today...

        I think Android is eventually going to win out - it's just as capable, isn't relying on a single manufacturer, and allows for the production of cheaper handsets in these challenging times. Still - just my view...

        Martin

        1. Logicub

          Digging deeper...

          1:) Funny, when it suits the argument of a hater, the iPhone is nothing but a dumb phone. Then, all of a sudden, it's a computer... When you need it to make a point.

          2) The customer service surveys aren't something done by Apple. They're independent and cover a cross section of the population... Fact is not the plural of anecdote.

          3) Only hearing the cliche from people that assume and hate... there are precious few negative stories coming out of the approval process now that it's only Opera that's hitting the news... Even the haters can't dig anything new out.

          4) Microsoft's WM7 will be as locked-down as the iPhone. They're throwing out over a decade of development and starting a'fresh copying Apple's market model.

          5) Not killing a thing, just keeping some quality control. Saying you can't use tool set x to create software for platform y hardly constitutes killing an entire industry... Go use visual studio to create a game for the PS3 and see how far you get.

          6) Thank you, that story had passed me by. Still, come on, the story's almost a year old and they were very much still getting to grips with things then... Anything a bit more recent and, you know, relevant?

          7) It's lucrative enough for those that are in it, and Macs are a growing market and will continue to be so. Best get in quick while the market's still growing!

          Then don't learn objective C, nobody cares, but you're missing out on a market on a lot of money... If you want to earn money, you need to learn the necessary tools for the trade... It's the same everywhere else and you are *not* deserving of special compensation. There are thousands of people who are happy to put a bit of time in and learn new skills.

          8) Wipe your glasses clean. Android and Apple are going after different markets. Apple's customers want devices that just work. Easy to download apps, a wonderful user interface that's a breeze to use... I'm sure you've heard the many arguments. Android, and I do think Android's great for what it's worth here, is going after the geeks that want to tinker. Both OS' have great devices, if you don't like Apple's system, just leave alone and shut up.

          Of course, it's worth pointing out that very little money is being made for developers on Android precisely because of their market; people that want to tinker and hack and potentially won't think twice about cracking a piece of software to install it for free... People with iPhones are more willing to spend money, regularly if the desire arises, to buy great quality software.

  17. Eddie Edwards
    Thumb Down

    Interesting

    Hmm, great way to reduce the number of new applications.

    But since Apple have done a Nintendo GBA and flooded the market with indistinguishable apps, maybe that's the aim.

    The wording might imply you can't use *any* tools that creates C/C++/Obj-C code for you. But maybe that's OK as long as you compile it with Apple's compiler. Nice ambiguity.

    The interpreter thing is also ambiguous. There's a C64 emulator for the iPhone which does interpret code. Apparently the make-or-break for that was if the user could download his own ROMS. The emulator + a ROM, as a single package, is apparently acceptable. When they enabled the emulator to reboot into BASIC - so the user could enter his own programs - Apple had problems.

    This seems to imply that Apple's main aim is to prevent there being any vector onto the device for executable code where they don't control the execution. This can be seen as a malware prevention measure as well as a control measure (all apps go through App Store).

    Assuming this is their main point, I don't see why these app kits would be problematic as long as there was no "load new app from http" command. So I'd call this a storm in a teacup if it wasn't for the fact that Apple made the teacup and the storm through their inability to say what they actually mean.

    I wish they would just reduce their requirements to what they actually want to say. e.g.

    1. No app will contain any vector for 3rd-party executable code to be run on the platform

    2. Fuck Adobe

  18. Shannon Jacobs
    Black Helicopters

    Give us your freedom and money, and we promise to try...

    Apple's new corporate motto: "Give us your freedom and money, and we promise to try to give you some sort of promise of security, maybe, but no guarantees and you can't hold us liable no matter what happens to you because we made a little boo boo."

    There was a brief period some years ago when I recommended Apple. That was a long time ago. At this point, I am convinced Apple is bound and determined to become more evil than Microsoft was at their evil peak. Kind of a wrestling match for the world crown of corporate evil between Apple and Amazon at this point in time--and I buy nothing from either of them. I can't remember my last purchase from Apple, and it has been about 6 years since my last (and final) purchase from Amazon.

  19. sleepy

    opportunity, not threat

    This gives all Apple haters and competitors a wonderful opportunity. They can apparently ship a much better platform and better apps if it's open for any language, build tools, runtime code modification etc. All rally round Android and wicked Apple will be defeated?

    Apple have been severely damaged financially by having their innovation copied. First time it was far east Apple II clones, second time it was MS finally copying the Mac successfully after 9 years. No wonder Apple is keeping tight control of this platform, and constantly updating it so it's a moving target for copiers.

  20. Adam T

    it's not all bad

    At least it won't be so easy for every tom dick and harry to churn out endless appcelerator garbage apps.

    Amazing how ignorant commentators can be. "Too much crap on app store cause any turd can make a game" one minute, then "you can't turn away the turds like that! no fair!" the next.

    Make your minds up at last; you can't have it both ways.

  21. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    Oh really?

    "There will be no challenges in court, there are no grounds to challenge."

    Apple distribute well over 90% of mobile applications (yes, on all platforms, it's still 90%+). That's a monopoly on that market by the same definition Microsoft had one with Windows.

    Apple are using that monopoly to leverage competitive advantage against competing development environments.

    There's significant grounds.

    This is good news for iPhone users really - between this and Opera, EU regulatory intervention in the app store that will smack Apple's attitude to these sorts of things down very, very hard is now inevitable.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      Really.

      >"Apple distribute well over 90% of mobile applications (yes, on all platforms, it's still 90%+). That's a monopoly on that market by the same definition Microsoft had one with Windows."

      Your argument falls flat on it's face out of the gates! There are NO grounds. the iPhone accounts for ~25% the *smartphone* market! Monopolies aren't illegal. Microsoft's antitrust was over threatening of OEMs, including company like Compaq, with financially putative measures *if* they bundled a competitors browser. This is a million miles away from determining what development languages can be used on a closed platform. Apple have 100% of the market for iPhone app sales, is that anti-competative? No.

      >"Apple are using that monopoly to leverage competitive advantage against competing development environments."

      Seemingly you are correct, but it's just not that simple. Apple's dominant position has not been achieved by posturing over and bullying OEM's! The lack of app distribution on other platforms is down to the quality, or lack there of, on the other devices and marketing. Apple have marketed the App Store brilliantly. Since Flash apps have never been allowed to be deployed on the platform, the precedent is already there, Apple have merely taken it a step further.

      The thing that gets me about all this and the other indignant mouth foaming rants is that these very same individuals mock the app store for being full of shovelware (frankly, I agree). I would hazard that the majority of the shovelware on there was created using 3rd party cross platform development engines. You can't have your cake *and* eat it!

  22. Anomalous Cowherd Silver badge

    Flash a CPU hog? Err, yep.

    Nothing is guaranteed to reduce my dual-core 2.5Ghz Macbook to an unresponsive lump or aluminium more than opening 20 pages with adverts in Safari. After installing SafariBlock my battery life increased dramatically...

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Some friendship...

    After all those years of helping Apple survive by producing the single app most responsible for anyone buying a Mac back in the day (Pagemaker), the Jobstard kicks them in the balls.

    Adobe is a major chump on this one.

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Jobs is the PT Barnum of high tech

    lucky for him that there seems to be an endless supply of suckers willing to overpay for mediocre products.

    I haven't truly liked an Apple product since my Apple ][. It's amazing that the iPod has sold so well considering the excessive price and poor quality. And don't get me started on itunes, it's crap software that makes managing your music overly complicated. I just drag and drop music to my MP3 players without the hassle of itunes.

    As for the iphone, I can't stand touchscreens, they are so limiting. give me a keyboard. Despite all the hype, Rim's lead over Apple has increased

    1. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      overly "complicated"?!?

      "And don't get me started on itunes, it's crap software that makes managing your music overly complicated. I just drag and drop music to my MP3 players without the hassle of itunes."

      I just chose "import" to add music to iTunes and "sync" to sync with my mp3 player...

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Blah, blah, blah...

      >"It's amazing that the iPod has sold so well considering the excessive price and poor quality"

      I love this one! Up until recently, the iPod used the same DAC as practically every other MP3 player. The "quality" and "price" gambits are tired strawmen. It was successful because, like the Walkman, it was well marketed and it worked. In the real world, that's what matters--not a sheet of specs for nerds to get sweaty over!

      > "As for the iphone, I can't stand touchscreens, they are so limiting. give me a keyboard. Despite all the hype, Rim's lead over Apple has increased"

      Look at the iPhone sales trends over the last 3 years and notice a sales dip in the first/second quarter as people anticipate new versions. Unlike RIM and HTC, Apple only really sell one model (well alright, 2). Taken in context, to have 25% of the smartphone market with essentially one device is actually quite a feat (RIM have at least 8 different models on the market, HTC have around 30!). Again brand and marketing play a part, but so does usability and reliability. have a look at the JD Power Surveys for the last 3 years. Sure, dismiss as fanboys if you want--that in itself say a lot.

      This is all off topic. The long and the short of it is this; it's Apple OS, it's up to Apple how software is written for it. Don't like it! Ignore articles about them, ignore their products and don't develop for their platform. It really is as simple as that.

  25. Grubby
    Pint

    Made for iphone

    I suspect they want all the aps on the iphone to have been made for the iphone... which makes sense really. Converting things and fudging things to make it work on something usually makes it perform worse, people will just see that it works better on their PC than on their Iphone, so blame the phone...

    Personally I prefer things that are purpose built. If I was a builder and someone came to me and said build me a supermarket. I wouldn't fit shelves in a house and say I'm done because I don't know how to build a supermarket.

  26. Anonymous Coward
    Happy

    Best not to piss off Adobe

    After all, they could decide not to release an Apple version of CS5, and instead offer an attractive upgrade from Apple CS4 to Windows CS5. Keep in mind that Apple PCs will quite happily run Windows 7.

    1. the bat

      Well Adobe can't be pisser!

      Adobe can play dirty and just block installation to the hardware regardless of windows or Mac OS X if the hardware is Apple

  27. the bat
    Jobs Horns

    No More Creative Suite for Mac OS X

    Adobe can seriously hurt the sales of all new Mac systems but ending the line for future releases of creative suite products and push that product to the Linux platform instead. Then apple will come to adobe's table and stop being so anti-competitive.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Gates Horns

      RE: No More Creative Suite for Mac OS X

      You do realise that MS are doing the same thing with their new app store, don't you?

  28. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Hah

    Every day in every single way apple looks that little bit more pathetic!

  29. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Down

    Something to think about

    iPhone market share is currently stagnating at 25.4% (having dropped 0.1 percentage points in February), while Android has increased 5.2 percentage points in the same period to reach 9%.

    At that rate, Android will catch up and overtake iPhone by the time my game is released.

    Why then should I develop for the iPhone, when there is no guarantee that my app will not fall foul of whatever Jobsian hissie fit is at that time driving the approval process?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      RE: Something to think about

      "Why then should I develop for the iPhone, when there is no guarantee that my app will not fall foul of whatever Jobsian hissie fit is at that time driving the approval process?"

      Well, if you develop "for the iPhone" then your code will be iPhone native and won't fall foul of the rules will it?

      1. TeeCee Gold badge
        Thumb Down

        Re: RE: Something to think about

        "....then your code will be iPhone native and won't fall foul of the rules will it?"

        Let me help:

        "....then your code will be iPhone native and won't fall foul of the rules as they are this week, will it?"

        That's the real issue here, the fact that the goalposts that iPhone devs have to aim at are mounted on castors.

  30. J 3
    Big Brother

    Building for a "better" future

    People keep saying these things (iPad, iPod Touch, IPhone) are not computers. They are "appliances" and, therefore, the rules and thinking we use for computers do not apply here. Maybe, although I think that is hard to swallow -- specially for the iPad, bigger and more capable than its smaller brethren.

    So, are "they" trying to instill in the "new generations" (people using computers for the first time), or even the old ones, the idea that you don't really control the hardware of these things? Will they be able to make the laptop into an "appliance" too, somehow? You know, start small. "The iPhone is fine, we don't need to install any random program in it". It sounds like several people are saying the same now, except with "iPad" as the name of the gadget. How long until people start saying "hey, people only use laptops for office apps, email, web and light image editing, so why would you want to install any random app in it? It's bad for security/the experience/the quality of the apps! OMGZ!" Would people go with this change of paradigm (to use a word fashionable lately)? Well, it looks like people will go along with anything in life, given the "right" conditions. "Trusted computing", what is that if not something along these lines, but done too soon and so far without success?

    Now, if you think you, card carrying geek, are not affected, because you build your own machine and install your own OS... well, think again. Such a future of computers as "appliances" would probably not be good for us either. Sure, we could always continue building our own, but what would happen with economy of scale if all of a sudden computers were as closed as TVs? Can you build your own TV? I'm sure some people can, but how much cost and effort would that be?

    It's not because you are paranoid that they aren't after you! :-)

  31. Graeme Sutherland
    FAIL

    Fun and Profits

    How many developers actually make decent profits on the iPhone?

    I've been told (by someone with excellent industry contacts) that it's not really worthwhile writing apps. There are too many competing programs, making it hard to get yours noticed.

  32. Uplink
    Megaphone

    Just americans

    We hate socialism! Don't impose national healthcare on us!

    But we love corporate dictatorship. Yep, it's totally democratic. Just ask our televangelists :)

  33. Mei Lewis
    Jobs Horns

    This has gone too far.

    A few weeks ago I met a guy who is writing programs for the iphone.

    This is probably common knowledge, but I was amazed to discover that he has to pay Apple to be allowed to run code that he wrote on the phone that he owns.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      RE: This has gone too far.

      "he has to pay Apple to be allowed to run code that he wrote on the phone that he owns"

      ...because he has to download it from the iPhone store. Helpfully for him, he can release it free for 15 seconds, download it quickly and then bump the price up to normal...

  34. Andy Watt
    Thumb Up

    @J3

    Good post dude, well reasoned and an extension of the paranoia which I see in frothing posts from jailbroken geeks wrt apple api lockdowns. I'm a programmer who has been in mobile phone testing for years (now in tetra radios) and I've had a smartphone since the p910i came out. Got an iPhone precisely because it IS dumbed down.

    I'd rationalised my experiences of working for mobile phone manufacturers and decided they'd never really get their act together so opted for a new entrant, and I've always liked apple gear. I like the iPhone.

    Now, I'm thinking your theory on "appliances" is a ether salient point; while OS4.0 promises some nice features, the advertising engine makes my flesh crawl. But there's nothing I can do about it.

    So I'm thinking you may be right.

  35. Anonymous Coward
    Megaphone

    The Development Community needs to speak up here

    Flash developers should stomp up and down on their iPhones in unison as a way of protesting - lord knows enough of them own an iPhone - most of them were among the early adopters for Christ's sake!! And I bet half of them dashed out and joined the 'mock' iPad queues thinking they would cash in on some of their old Flash games once CS5 comes out.

    Hahaha

    If you're a Flash developer with any sense, you'll walk into the Apple store next time you stroll past and give their shop assistants an earful. Public opinion will soon get back up to the top if people are going in and slagging off Apple in the middle of a shop assistant's sales pitch. That will annoy Apple very quickly indeed and considering Apple are now on the high street of every major city - there is nowhere for Apple to hide if those 2 million Flash developers really want to make themselves heard. It just needs 2 people - 1 to go in and deliver the message, another to film it to post on YouTube. Obviously peaceful and intelligent measures only - but they need to be hit where it hurts.

    In my view, there are certain products that end up defining a genre. When a product reaches that stage, the owners remain entitled to cash in on the product - but the product takes on a certain public responsibility. Like the web, email was a software/service provided which caught on fast. Facebook almost seems to becoming as much of a feature of how people use the internet as email - and for many people it has replaced email. Twitter too seems to define a genre - and the fact the BBC in the UK has given it so much free publicity kind of signifies to me that Twitter has also left itself indebt to society by way of public duty. You can bet national governments, or the EU will get their hooks into Twitter further on down the road...

    I actually feel that if iPhone gets any bigger then it will have a similar public duty. If it was an open platform it would still be the most desirable handset and the rest of the industry would follow suit and use that software. You could buy a cheaper handset and then buy the same apps. There is no argument against this that makes any sense - even for Apple, it will fight by the sword but it will die by the sword. And I don't reckon they should underestimate Adobe. They are smart guys and their business goes way beyond CS products. With some of their print rendering patents, they could ruin Apple if they so chose to do so - or at the very least eat into a serious wad out of Apples $40 Billion cash pile.

    Jobs has lost the plot anyway - he has any number of major shareholders sat ready to stab him in the back for holding out on long overdue dividends from that aforementioned $40 Billion cash pile.

    Lucky for me I code server side languages so it doesn't really make a whole lot of difference to me - but I do like mocking Flash developers who are waving their Apple handsets about - fools!

  36. Anonymous Coward
    Troll

    EU Interest

    I reckon the European Union will tear strips out of Apple once some of them actually understand what is happening here. The problem is that this area sounds incredible technical to those who are not tech savvy - once someone translates this into plain speak so the EU politicians understand there will be MEPs lining up to make their name by ripping Apple to shreds.

    The popup that just appeared on my Windows machine asking me which browser I want to use is testament to this. I noticed that no such popup appeared on my Mac - yet Safari was pre-installed and there was no mention of Firefox.

    The EU have already flexed their muscles and told Microsoft who's boss - but they haven't yet taken task with Apple - but they will - it is inevitable once someone finds a way to express this in terms of anti-trust....

    1. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      Not again...

      Look, the "Why is Apple allowed to bundle Safari..." is nothing but a strawman. You want the honest answer? Because Microsoft got caught doing something wrong. So far Apple, have done nothing wrong, except upset a bunch of nerds that wouldn't have been interested in developing for the platform anyway.

  37. CharlieG
    Gates Halo

    Making Microsoft look good

    While I actually agree with Steve Jobs that Flash is a pile of crap, and the sooner it dies and is replaced by HTML5 the better, this kind of wide ranging draconian diktat is just making his company look worse and worse every day. Microsoft seem downright friendly these days in comparison.

    Jobs is setting up Apple for a big fall somewhere along the line. The competition is catching up, or has done already, on the technical front, and in the end just being shiny and Apple-branded won't be enough when there are better and more open alternatives out there. Apple are now reacting instead of innovating, the multi-tasking change in OS 4.0 was forced on them because people now look at Android phones and ask why can't the iPhone do this. Which of course it could have long ago, but Jobs didn't want it to, so that was that.

    It's a shame that Jobs' personality is the way it is. No-one can deny that when Apple are at the top of their game they can make some fantastic gear that people really want to use. If only he wasn't quite such a control freak.

    1. Martin Nicholls
      Alert

      Failed

      "the sooner it dies and is replaced by HTML5 the better"

      This is where your post dies an early death and stops making sense, just in case you wondered.

  38. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    RE: Some friendship...

    "Adobe is a major chump on this one."

    Ah, you've experienced Flash on a Mac then.

  39. idstam
    WTF?

    MonoTouch?

    Won't this kill mono development on the iphone os too?

    /johan/

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Pirate

      Re:Monotouch

      Yes I think it will. MonoTouch uses an intermediate layer, i.e. Mono, to allow you to use C# (this language is also not allowed now) which then gets compiled to native code. If I were a MonoTouch customer, or contributer to MonoTouch development, I would be proper fuming.

  40. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    slightly confused

    Is there anything to stop an application creation environment generating c/c++/objective c code which then gets compiled by xcode? Surely that's the way to handle this. Lex/yacc etc have always done this.

  41. This post has been deleted by its author

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