BBC confirms death of 6Music, slashes online budget by a quarter

The BBC plans to axe its 6Music digital radio channel by the end of 2011 as part of a pledge made by the Corporation's director-general to cut costs at the Beeb. The BBC Trust published the BBC's 79-page strategy review this morning. It was leaked to the press last week. Under the proposals, which are now subject to a 12-week …

[Smallbrainfield]

Shit sandwich

Get rid of radio 1, which stifles a lot of other commercial stations (and only dishes out Cowell sanctioned pap anyway) and shove the savings into the rest of the network. Radio 1 does nothing your local Smashie and Nicies couldn't deliver.

Save 6 Music.

[Jon Whiteoak]

re: Shit Sandwich

I don't think getting rid of Radio 1 is the answer, after all they have 8m+ listeners. They could improve the quality of it by integrating some of the 6Music programming in to it.

I agree that daytime Radio 1 is utter shite, but the evening schedule covers a lot of genres you won't find anywhere on commercial radio.

[James 7]

Tried listening?

You've obviously not listened to Radio 1 much. Take a look at the fab comparemyradio.com from the guys at Absolute for evidence it doesn't just dish out "Cowell sanctioned pap": http://comparemyradio.com/stations/BBC_Radio_1

I don't think You Me At Six, Gramophonedzie or Tinie Tempah (R1's top 3 played tracks over the last 30 days) would be very happy to be described as such, anyway.

And let's compare to your local Smashie and Nicey on Capital: http://comparemyradio.com/compare/BBC_Radio_1/Capital_FM - I'd say the difference is fairly marked.

6Music still needs to be saved, of course, just don't fall into the trap of denigrating Radio 1 just because you don't fall into their target audience.

[Smallbrainfield]

Re: tried listening?

How about ditch radio 1 and migrate those things worth keeping to 6 music?

[Anthony 13]

Yeah but when ...

... are people listenting to the radio? Am I only allowed to listen between certain hours now? You can't tell me you listen to BBC1 in the morning and don't feel sick?

[passportholder]

radio 1

zane lowe and annie mac are both on radio 1 and have excellent shows

[Dibbles]

Commitment to digital?

I'm genuinely upset about the 6Music news - it's an innovative station that offers music not found elsewhere on the BBC's network or mainstream commercial alternatives. But then Mark Thompson has decreed that he wants to play politics, so who are we to complain?

However, this does make complete hypocrisy of the BBC's claimed commitment to digital radio and badgering of commercial rivals to support DAB. It's a nonsense, and hopefully one that will be picked up and thrown back at Thompson to explain and justify.

[Marky W]

Here's an idea...

How about 'redirecting' the £600m back to the licence payer.

Money-wasting tossers.

[Rob McDougall]

Tighter Focus

The BBC needs to keep a good range of distinct radio stations, not a one-size-fits-all mentality with just 5 main stations.

I've never felt the need to listen to Radio 1, but 6Music has often had a great range of programming - the "gateway drug" for me being Adam + Joe...

If anything, they should make the programming more niche - often I would tune out as more popular music was piped out, stuff I could listen to on Radio 1 (but obviously wasn't...)

[Annihilator]

Stephen!

Agree with A&J. My gateway drug was Russell Brand, before he moved to R2 and you know the rest.

[Pete 2]

sell off the lot of them!

> The BBC needs to keep a good range of distinct radio stations

Errr, why - exactly?

There are two sorts of radio station the beeb spends our money on: ones designed to go head-to-head with commercial alternatives and minority interest stations that a small number of highly vocal individuals deem "worthy". Oh yes, and local stations - the less said about them the better.

So far as the commercial stations go (and this applies to telly, too) just why do they feel the need to compete? They don't provide an incentive to improve the quality (heavens, ITV is an obvious example of this failure) and while the do provide an alternative, if they disappeared there wouldn't be a monopoly left behind - though there might *just* be more listeners to spread around, allowing the commercials to make some money, rather than having to compete with "free".

Looking at the "worthies": why should the great unwashed indulge the minority and elitist interests of the grate[sic] and the good? If stations such as Radio 3 & Radio 4 are so necessary and popular, they could stand on their own - maybe with a bit of behind the scenes help, a la Channel4.

I'd suggest that what we need is to spread the ownership of broadcast media around a bit - not focus it in the hands of a small number of massive players -whether government owned or run commercially. Once the barriers to entry are broken down, and it becomes possible for small entrants to compete, then we'll see true and independent diversity.

[Alex Gollner]

6Music sacrificed for political reasons

You state 'The BBC plans to axe its popular 6Music digital radio channel by the end of 2011 as part of a pledge made by the Corporation's director-general to cut costs at the Beeb', yet their level of investment in digital radio is to stay the same.

More accurately: 'The BBC plans to axe its popular 6Music digital radio channel by the end of 2011 to placate commercial radio interests who find it hard to compete for a valuable target market - 50 quid man' 6Music already provides better value for money per listening hour than other BBC stations, but if the Beeb invest more in that station, they'll be in trouble for stifling commercial radio.

I think the Trust should spend the next year monitoring 6Music's competitors to see how likely the market will step in and serve this distinctive audience.

[breakfast]

Stifling commercial interests?

But there is no commercial station within fifty miles of what 6 Music offers. Of all the BBC music stations it must come closest to being genuinely unique. Surely pretty much any other station would need to be axed first if they were to use that logic.

[Shusui]

Additionally ...

"... the corporation won't provide its own email, webmail or instant messaging service, nor will it create social networking sites."

Thank God for that!

[Neil Hoskins]

Idiots

Nice to see I'm not alone in speaking out to defend 6 Music but there don't seem to be that many voices raised in defence of the Asian channel. I should point out, though, that despite being a White Anglo-Saxon, I found myself listening to the Punjabi programme on Sunday as it was the only thing on the whole spectrum worth listening to.

[Andy 97]

Approved!

Yes, Asian Network is excellent and I'm not an Asian either.

Many of the station's core demographic, however, still get all of their news from SW or the internet; listening to shows from their parent's countries of origin.

I have no idea why, but it's the same for ex-pats in Spain listening to Radio 2 off the satellite and moaning about it on The Daily Mail's forum.

[Jan 0]

No voices defending the "Asian Network"?

Much as I enjoy programmes on the Asian Network, particularly "Friction', the name is a joke. I first started listening in the hope that I'd hear modern music from south east Asia. It gradually sank in that I wasn't even going to hear music from China, Kazakhstan, Mongollia, or Tuva, let alone the occasional bit from Lao. Perhaps this is why it's hard to defend a station that claims to play Asian Music. Ok, I'm not expecting a World Service kind of remit. I realise that it's primarily for UK people of Asian extraction, but that remit seems blind to the substantial numbers of people of Chinese, Vietnamese Thai and Filipino extraction in the UK. (Apologies in advance if any other groups of Asian extraction feel left out too.)

Asia is not a synonym for what UK english used to call 'The Indian sub-continent",

was the name "South Asian Network" just too long?

[Glesga Snapper]

Here in Glasgow.

Here in Glasgow, there are already Asian FM stations that are very popular. In contrast, there are currently no commercial offerings that could replace 6 Music.

That said, I don't want to see either axed.

Also, do we need 1Extra, that is just a continuation of the bland, RnB shitfest that is Radio 1?

[Neil Hoskins]

Err...

"Asia is not a synonym for what UK english used to call 'The Indian sub-continent""

Err... yes it is, here in UK at least. Yanks use the term when we would say "oriental". Neither usage is "correct": British English is different from American English. Live with it.

[The Original Steve]

Sounds like a plan

The Beeb's content is woefully thin. Primetime is normally a mix of shite reality shows and soaps. That's BBC One - BBC is poor quality comedy, BBC Three (aimed at my demographic) is lost on me and I can't listen to 6Music due to coverage.

I mean there's TWO kids channels, BBC News, BBC Parliment, BBC One, Two, Three, Four, at least 8 national radio stations as well as local radio. I'm still shocked there are seperate stations for Black (1Xtra) and Asian (Asian Network) stations....! Seriously?! What's next, BBC Christian radio? BBC Gay Radio? Why the seperation? What a waste of money.

Same with BBC Switch and the other one. Some of the shite spewed out of the Radio One playlist (mainly XFactor and plastic 1 year wonder 'artists') already covers the 12 - 16 year olds that are coverered by Switch. Why rebrand stuff and shove it into Radio One and BBC Two for a few hours a week?

BBC Two has been sucked dry by BBC Three and BBC Four - neither of which grab my attention.

I rather like the BBC Website, although it's bloody enormous and I'm sure you can trim it down / save costs without removing the decent content.

All makes sense to me - trim down the crap and sidelines, focus back on the core whilst keeping the technology, diversity and quality as high as possible.

If you can't keep the quality high enough across 4 TV channels and 5 national stations why do you think you can do it across even more stations?

[Anonymous Coward]

@the Original Steve - Sounds like a plan

" there's TWO kids channels"

Because there is a differentiation in what is suitable for toddlers/preschool and for older children. A 10 year old doesn't want In the night garden and a 4 your old probably ought'n be watching the Sarah Jane adventures (IMHO)

[benjymous]

Digital babysitter?

Then you, as a responsible parent, who's sat watching TV with their child, only turn it on when there are programs suitable for their age range, and turn it off again afterwards.

[The Original Steve]

Well obviously...

...but funding two channels? 10 years ago the kids programmes were shown between 3 and 6pm. Not saying thats rights, but the kids stuff years ago has moved to TWO channels, whilst BBC Onc and ITV around that time now show even MORE cooking and home programmes...

How about people look after their kids than relying on a channel babysitting them? Not saying there is anything wrong with a kids channel - that's fine, but two is just a waste of money.

Kids aside, I would have thought the daytime playlist on Radio 1 and Radio 2 easily incorporate 6Music. Would keep everyone happy.

[EddieD]

Change to appease the politicians, I think

The BBC identity has now become overwhelming, and the values that identified the stations has been lost - Radio1 used to be yoof/pop oriented, Radio2 was middle aged/mumsy, Radio3 was classical, Radio4 was news/talk. Now there is a mush of Radio1/Radio2/Radio6 - they all have strong points, but no "market identifiers" - there is nothing particularly unique with any of them. Similarly BBC1 (populist and mainstream) and BBC2 (minority/experimental) have lost their individuality, and sucumbed to a morass of imported dross, or they have adapted existing programs to a foreign (i.e. USAian) format (yes, Dr Who, I'm looking at you). We no longer make programs like "I, Clavdivs", the risk is too great that they won't be marketable - which is nonsensical - the BBC shouldn't need to consider market risk, they have guaranteed funding, and experimental/niche/new should be their métier.

Alas though, success is now only measured in ratings and tabloid column inches - quality programmes which create broadsheet inches are anathema.

[censored]

Quality Programming

Let's play "spot the quality programming" shall we...

The Fearne Cotton Show

The Lauren Laverne Show

The Vernon Kay Show

Friction - Asian Network

The Huey Show

The Reggie Yates Chart Show

Stuart Maconie's Freak Zone

The Adam and Joe Show

The Steve Lamacq Show

The Scott Mills Show

(Clue - some of those were nominated for Sony Awards, often in multiple categories (e.g. music and music personality. Other, ummm, weren't).

[Anonymous Coward]

"Popular 6Music"?

I thought the whole point was that it wasn't actually very popular...

Anyway. I listened to it briefly this morning, just to see. Hmm. I won't miss it.

[Jolyon]

That speck overhead is the point

It's not a populist station and it is not on the mainstream broadcasting system.

It is however much loved by the people that do listen.

So it is not popular in the way British Rail was but it is popular in the way British Rail wasn't.

[Andy 97]

Missed chance?

6 Music needs to be sold not closed.

Commercial stations are appeased because they have a ready-made (tiny) audience and can then stop moaning like spoiled girls about how The BBC takes all their listeners because their programmes are so much better - oh boo hooo!

6Music Listener(s) is/are happy because they get to keep all the "really great" content and fab presenters like Gideon "I'm so hip and down with the kids that I still take the bus into work, but refuse to acknowledge people saying hello to me because I'm also very cool as well" Coe

BBC happy because they get to save money + a few quid spare, BBC staff happy because they get to keep a job.

Daily Mail happy because they ... what am I thinking? DM readers will never be happy until the Nazi party takes over and executes anyone who isn't like them,

[Neil Hoskins]

Godwin

You are Mike Godwin and I claim my five pounds.

[Robin]

Stuff and Nonsense

Thanks a lot Lesley Douglas and Mark Thompson.

[Jacqui Smith's DVD Collection!]

Kill Radio 1 & 2

They seriously need to go, and not in two years, I mean now!

Their presenters are overpaid, and these two stations are killing commercial radio, if the BBC were serious about these cuts they would be saying the same.

[StooMonster]

Kill Radio 3

Radio 3 has direct commercial competition in Classic FM.

6music does not, it is both "classical" music to me -- as well as provider of new music (of the non-shite, non-reality show, talented musician type) that I tend to go and buy on CD.

It's obvious they are killing 6music for political reasons, I would much rather they closed down Radio 3 and used its bandwidth for an FM version of 6music -- then I could have 6music in my car -- in my dreams I guess.

[Neil Hoskins]

Mmm....

I agree to a certain extent. But for some weird reason the World Music programmes are on 3. They would need to be moved somewhere more sensible.

[John H Woods]

@Stoo Monster

"Radio 3 has direct commercial competition in Classic FM." This translates as "I don't really like classical music". If your curious, spend a day listening to each, then see if you have the same opinion.

[trachycarpus]

website emasculating?

Type your comment here — plain text only, no HTML

I'm more concerned about the reduction of the web site, how long will it be till the Papers get their way and remove news from it so they can charge for the content on their own site? This is what Murdoch and co are really pressing for imho.

[Danny 14]

Well

They need to make savings after switching iplayer to adobe from its open strategy. Lord knows how much that has cost them (at the expense of people trying to get away from adobe shite)

[Piro]

6Music?

Have to say I never heard of it before this kerfuffle, and I'm sure I read something about the Asian Network costing the BBC more per listener than a prime time TV show, so it has to be a failure.

That said, if Radio1 stopped broadcasting from this moment onwards, less people would care...

[Dale Richards]

No

"I'm sure I read something about the Asian Network costing the BBC more per listener than a prime time TV show, so it has to be a failure"

As a public service broadcaster, the BBC has little need to be motivated by ratings. As long as they have enough support across the board to keep the license money coming in, the number of listeners/viewers for each individual service should be of little consequence as long as there is some demand for it.

I say "should", of course, because the BBC has gradually drifted so far away from its original purpose that it's a wonder the government hasn't intervened.

[Richard Porter]

@Quality Programming

"Let's play 'spot the quality programming' shall we...

The <insert any name> Show ..."

That's the whole problem. The title tells you nothing about the content. The show is built around the presenter. I'll listen to a programme of the genres that I'm interested in, if I know. But I'm not going to listen to some presenter-named show just to find out.

[censored]

Not quite my point...

I was merely trying to show that in the last round of Sony Awards (the Oscars of UK radio), there were multiple nominations for 6Music and Asian Network and only a couple for Radio 1 (namely Scott Mills and Zane Lowe).

So, if it's quality the BBC are going for, they already have industry-recognised quality on 6Music.

I then threw in other shows, particularly Fearne Cotton to show that the average daytime show on Radio 1 lags far behind the Sony-nominated Lauren Laverne in the same time slot.

[ewan 3]

Properly retarded

Get rid of Radio 1, that provides proper commercial competition. Keep 6 Music, XFM is the only competition really, and that's s**t.

[Whitter]

How's this for a plan?

BBC news 24 + BBC parliament: merge thes two

Radio 1: effectively commerial broadcasting without ads during - already done by commercial raio, so bin it.

Radio 2: bit better than radio1, but 'on report' - get more originality or bin this too

Radio 4: grand, if very establishment

Radio 6: doing what it is meant to

CBBC and CBeebies - fine so long as they keep a clear age differenetial

Website: news and BBC programing: additional elements only as supports these two, so bin the magazines, non-program-related educational areas, quizes, games etc

Soap operas: Well served by commerical broadcasters: stop or sell them (save radio soap(s) perhaps as commecial channels don't do them)

Celeb-lead programming: commerical channel activity. Stop these and save a fair bit.

News: time is limited, so actual news please. No "somebody is expected to say this in a speach later" and such the reporting of future-if as-if news: wait till it happens, then report it if newsworthy. Tiger woods has press conference wherein he says nothing of note? Don't report it. And end the inane "here's me saying intro - cut to somebody else pointlessly standing somewhere else, says same thing again - back to studio".

BBC 1: flagship. No repeats. New programming.

BBC 2: best bits of BBC3 and 4 - as a result, remove.

And blitz the middle management gravy train.

[Hayden Clark]

Games on bbc.co.uk

These are a vital part of the BBC service for parents. My two have spent hours doing educational and fun things on the CBBC and CBeebies site. On-line content that you are happy for children to hoover up to their heart's content.

[Anonymous Coward]

grumble

..all very political. Better to close BBC3, which is horrible tabloid crap these days (after a strong start). That'd save a chunk, and allow people to keep 6music. You can get reality TV and re-runs of sitcoms anywhere, a fresh mix of indie and mainstream music- not so much.

Anonymous because these are my opinions, and clearly my employer doesn't share them.

[Rob Crawford]

Quality programming my brown eye

If they wanted quality programming BBC3 & Radio 1 would have bitten the dust.

Ironically the claim of not cutting across other broadcasters would have meant the death of Radio1 & 2, BBC4 (cuts across every shite channel) and News24 competes with Sky News et al.

Basically lets keep what the great unwashed and the elite (read media types & politicians) want and fuck the rest of us!

Even the Asian Network was better than Radio1 Xtra (but no damn 60s Cambodian pop or Korean psychedelia)

Bastards

[Anonymous Coward]

Ha ha ha ha

Skim read it and you see that they are going to shut down 6 Music and Asian Network to save money. Read it more carefully and it seems that they are going to maintain their investment in stations that are unique to digital. IOW they are not going to save any money on that particular move.

The BBC have been under pressure from the government to force the uptake of digital TV and radio. Or to look at it another way the government are using your licence fee in trying to force people onto digital TV and radio. That isn't what the BBC is for, nor is it what the licence fee is for. Don't blame the BBC for that, blame the government.

It's pretty clear that somebody is not happy with the rate of uptake of digital radio. Somebody has decided that the BBC could do more to make people move to digitial radio. Somebody has reached the nonsensical conclusion that the poor audience figures for 6 Music and Asian Network indicate that these stations are not doing enough to attract people to digital. Maybe these are all the same somebody, but I suspect the first two somebodies are nothing at all to do with the BBC and the third somebody is a committee of Tristrams at the BBC desperately clutching at straws. If the Tristrams had any balls at all they would have pointed out that whatever the BBC present on digital radio the uptake will not accelerate until cheap receivers are available especially when it comes to cars.

It's been said many times before, but most people stick to the same radio station. If your car only has FM (and most do) then you're probably going to listen to a station at home that you can also get in the car. Even if you're lucky enough to have a standard fitting head unit in your car replacing it with DAB is very expensive, if you have some prpprietory fitting then it's an arm and a leg. And then you get your DAB receiver and discover that reception is patchy over your normal routes so you switch back to FM.

In short the BBC are not to blame for the poor uptake of digital radio. The real blame lies with the government and ofcon, but they will never accept responsibility for their big plan going titsup. So they blame the Beeb and will continue to blame the Beeb even up to the day they abandon DAB altogether.

If the Tories get in no doubt they will expect Roop to encourage people onto digital radio. For which task he will expect half the licence fee and his plan will be to remove popular stations from FM, move them to DAB and then (once everybody has moved to DAB) work out a way of charging people to listen to those stations.

*note to non-British residents. "Tranny" was a slang term for hand held transistor radio.

[bluest.one]

Cyberman says "Delete!"

Jesus, and I thought John Birt was a shithead of a controller.

Apparently it's not too late, and the BBC Trust has to approve this cack-headded decision.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/consultations/departments/bbc/bbc-strategy-review/consultation/consult_view

(which appears to be down at the moment of posting.)

Theres also an email (gleaned from http://www.forfolkssake.com/features/3730/save-6-music-your-letters-to-the-bbc-trustees )

SRconsultation *at* bbc.co.uk

I get most of my value from the license fee from four main sources, two of which are being destroyed by this decision: comedy shows on the two main BBC TV channels, the BBC website, radio in the form of 5live and 6music, and the iplayer for stuff I miss.

What the BBC seems to define as its core service (ie BBC 1 and 2) makes up only a small part of what I use it for.

They talk about adapting to the changing landscape, but surely, if anything, people like me are part of that changed landscape - we don't just rely on the two main TV channels for our value and instead have migrated to the newer, more innovative offerings the BBC has put out and which the 'core services' simply don't - and never have catered to.

This decision can only be to appease the Murdoch-arse-licking Conservatives and their other big-media friends. It certainly isn't in the interest of license fee payers or the British public as a whole.

[Robert Carnegie]

Now

I suppose some of 6 Music's unique offering will be taken up by other BBC stations. I spend more time listening to Radio 4, but a good concert or music documentary would lure me to Six. I wish the doccies were better advertised. In Radio Times it says that's what is on at midnight to half past, Mon-Thu, but not what it is about.

Radio 2 is running "Blagger's Guide" on Thursdays.

The 6 schedule also seems to like young comedians as disc jockeys - I suppose because Phill Jupitus was very good at it and then left(?) "Common sense and a sense of humor are the same thing, moving at different speeds. A sense of humor is just common sense, dancing." That means that comedians are likely to turn out to be refreshingly intelligent people, and it's also interesting to hear their thoughts when they aren't using that mental muscle to reach out for the next gag.

[Jolyon]

BBC Charter

The Public Purposes of the BBC are as follows—

...

(b)promoting education and learning;

(c)stimulating creativity and cultural excellence;

(d)representing the UK, its nations, regions and communities;

(e)bringing the UK to the world and the world to the UK;

...

6 Music is a very good fit across all of these core requirements of the BBC Charter and as it is the sole reason I've bought four extra DAB radios for the house I'd say it is also succeeding in promoting the switch to digital.

I am very disappointed that culling rather than cost-cutting is seen as the solution for this station and it is hard not to be cynical about good BBC product being axed at a time when commercial interests in the same sector are struggling.

[Neil Charles]

Thumbs down

It's noticeable that the anti-BBC postings here are getting a unanimous thumbs down from everybody. I'm assuming this is because a lot of Reg readers like 6 Music and are sad to see it go.

For me, if there's a BBC then fair enough - 6 Music might well be something it should be doing. Radio 1 isn't.

The bigger picture is that if the BBC didn't exist, would anybody seriously suggest it would be a good idea now to create a corporation out of tax receipts with a £3bn annual budget to spend as widely as the Beeb does? Would they hell.

The BBC doesn't need to be trimmed to size, it needs to be scythed. The only issue is what goes.

[Neil Hoskins]

adverts

If you're happy spending your life listening to inane adverts then please do so. Personally, I'm not; if radio were to go commercial-only then I stop listening to radio, simple as that.

[Sirius Lee]

Then buy a machine

Then get a package from BT Vision or Virgin or Sky which provides a box on which you can fast-forward through the adverts if they trouble you so much. The BT Vision box allows you to record and fast forward through shows and comes with their internet package. The V-Box is extra though you can haggle (but maybe you've an enlarged cringe gland to go with your advertophobia).

[Anonymous Coward]

Scythed?

Yeah, absolutely, scythe the Beeb. After all what could go wrong? Clearly there's an almost unlimited supply of high quality programmes being churned by commercial broadcasters around the world that the Beeb flatly refuses to show.

[Steve X]

Run that by me again?

"It's noticeable that the anti-BBC postings here are getting a unanimous thumbs down from everybody. I'm assuming this is because a lot of Reg readers like 6 Music and are sad to see it go."

Sorry? Posts which criticize the BBC's move are getting the thumbs down, and you're interpreting that as meaning that people don't like the BBC move? I'd read it as saying that people are OK with the Beeb dumping minority-interest stuff rather than expecting general licence payers to subsidise it. If there's such demand for 6music-style programming then why aren't the commercial stations falling over themselves to offer it?

[breakfast]

Interesting argument.

Your argument that the BBC would not be created now is correct in that nobody would create it now. But if you're getting rid of the beeb for that reason you'd best get rid of the NHS while you're at it.

Maybe I'm just british and enjoy the old fashioned values of fairness that go with that, but I'm rather fond of both.

[SynnerCal]

A grumpy old man writes

"around £600m-a-year will be redirected into "high-quality" programmes." - I bet, so we can expect more xfactor-stars-dancing-on-ice pap then? I'll give it six months before we hear that Top Gear is now too expensive for the poor Beeb.

"The BBC will also review how some of 6Music’s most distinctive programmes can be successfully transferred to other BBC radio stations, and how its support for new and specialist music can be sustained across the BBC." - would that this was true. Actually, there's an idea - put it up for a public phone vote - dial in to save the programs you like.

"its role in addressing that market [teenagers] should take a back seat behind Channel 4 and other broadcasters" - in that case, why not close Radio 1 and save some highly (over)paid salaries. Here's one radio listener who wouldn't even notice it'd gone. (Likewise Radio 3). Actually why not collapse Radios 1 and 6 into one rebranded "Radio 1" station?

Glad to hear we're not going to be "treated" to BBC-branded twitbook any time soon - shudder at the thought.

Three ideas from me -

(a) Scrap BBC Parliament - because _seriously_ does anyone other than politicians and academics actually watch it? After all, if you want to see childish behaviour, what's wrong with CBeebies?

(b) Look at reducing the 'management burden' of the BBC. If you look at commercial companies such as IBM, HP, etc, then they seem to target middle management for cuts (I was told that, in the company I work for, they worked out that chopping two middle managers saves the jobs of three engineers/technicians).

(c) If they're serious about wanting to be Web2.0 enabled - why not setup a website - "slimbbc.co.uk" perhaps - where people can lobby for/against some of their products? If nothing else, it'd provide a good laugh.

[Anonymous Coward]

Top Gear?

If you've watched the most recent series of Top Gear it should be blatantly obvious that they aren't spending as much as they used to do. I'm willing to bet that TG makes a hefty profit for the BBC given that they not only sell it to other countries, but even franchise it in some countries *and* there's loads of merchandising too. Cutting spending on the show will only reduce it's popularity which can only reduce the revenue it generates.

The Beeb is run by a bunch of fucking clowns. They need people in place who can run the money making bits like a business and people in place who can do a good job of the niche stuff which will lose them money, but those losses should be offset by the money making stuff.

The whole "digital revolution" has fucked up the BBC. They used to have four radio national radio stations and two national TV stations and somehow they managed to slot all their niche programming into that. Come the digitial revolution they seemed to think they needed a station for every niche. WRONG! They don't need 6 Music, they just need to do a better job of programming on Radios 1 and 2. In particular get rid of the hangovers from the bad old days, for example Steve Wright and Chris Evans produce a style of radio that belongs in the eighties - if you want that you'll find any number of local radio stations that will pander to you. And therein lies the big issue - the BBC's charter does not require them to compete with commercial media, but it's clear from the recent announcement that that's how they see it. They should be there to produce the stuff the commercial stations can't, not to produce competing products.

[heyrick]

Our "expectations"of the BBC

Let's see... listening to the "customer" when we want to be able to access interactive content on anything that isn't the security fail that is Adobeware.

Listening to the "customer" when they show little interest in the promotion for BBC Switch because, even as teenagers, they know it'll be pulled before too long.

Listening to the "customer" when a unique radio offering, already handicapped by being DAB and other-digital, is wanted as it is a refreshing alternative to the same-same dross.

Listening to the "customer" when we plead for no more Two Pints (etc) as it is rehashing the same minimalist cheap-to-make formula over and over.

Listening to the "customer" when we dare to suggest more expenditure on actual content might go further than a highly overpaid group of celebrities.

Listening to the "customer" when we point out you are not commercially funded, so please quit with the ratings war nonsense.

But it's the BBC. They have the licence fee which is not an opt-in scheme, so they don't really need to listen.

Our loss.

[Anonymous Coward]

Licence fee not an opt-in?

It is...it really is.

I've managed with the internet and DVDs for over a year now. Stil got my telly, but its not even hooked up to a digibox. Get stroppy enough with the Tv Licencing people and they DO get the message.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's A Bad Thing

You can argue all day about it, but losing Huey Morgan, Adam & Joe and keeping Chris Evans and Chris Moyles - that's a bad thing whichever way you cut it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Why Has no-one mentioned XFM here?

Ok maybe not as high profile as BBC but still innovative and has web streaming so can reach a wide audience.,

[Neil Hoskins]

It's because...

...it has adverts.

[Reg Varney]

@ Why has no-one mentioned XFM

Because it's been utter shite since it was taken over, several year ago?

[Anonymous Coward]

But surely

Its the Closest thing commercially to 6 music, which has to be a good thing to some degree.

[Anthony 13]

but...

... it is still shite. not as unbearable as bbc1, but nearly.

[breakfast]

BBC announces death of BBC...

The site at http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/consultations/departments/bbc/bbc-strategy-review/consultation/consult_view appears to be falling down a lot...

> An error was encountered while publishing this resource.

>

> ZODB.POSException.ConflictError

>

> Sorry, a site error occurred.

Maybe they need to move some of their web staff over to making sure the consultation works, huh?

[jason 7]

Just who does the BBC think it appeals to?

I find little to watch on the main BBC channels nowadays. I'm just an average chap that enjoys engaging, entertaining drama/comedy and informative TV.

I now find more of that on a shitty little five bob a time channel such as Quest than the laviathan BBC. Have you seen Horizon recently? Once a respected series now it's a total joke.

The only BBC things I've made a date for are Being Human (a gem in a pile of dung) and Nurse Jackie (import).

I think the BBC has got the idea it can be the new world exporter of TV shows so more and more will cater to US tastes for export than UK home fare. Hence dumb adaptations like Day of the Triffids etc.

Getting rid of 6Music isnt a great way to entice more suckers to buy a crappy DAB radio.

[Chris Miller]

Horizon - worth a revisit

Up to this year, I was entirely in agreement that Horizon had gone to the dogs (trying to compete with C4* - 'The boy with 2 heads' etc). The current series is a big improvement, if still some way off the glory days.

Off topic, but whatever happened to 'Equinox', which used to be a decent science programme?

[richard 69]

one word - fucking idiots!

6 music really is a gem, and i loved george lamb although he is wrong for that station.

listen to 6 while you can, it really goes from one genre to another. so many times i've heard an old (great and obscure) classic that you'de never hear on the other stations or tin pot local radio..

[Uncle Slacky]

Er...

ITYF that's *two* words...

[Sarah Bee]

Re: Er...

'Pedant' is one word. I know it well.

[Anonymous Coward]

It ain't over 'til it's over

Quote from Sir Michael Lyons, chairmain of the BBC Trust:

"If we find that... there's massive public concern that we need to take account of then we will go back to the director general to rethink the strategy before it's approved,"

There is still some hope. How about all you musos out there who get your records promoted through air play get up off your arses and say something? Apart from a few, the silence has been deafening.

Save 6Music.

[paulf]

I blame Steve Wright

The Radio presenter, not the East Anglian Prozzie murderer.

He's p1$$ed at 6music because I've heard at least two shows regularly taking the michael out of his "LOVE THE SHOW" chanting and decided that the station must die in penance. [That would be Jon Holmes, and Collins+Herring AFAIK]

Love the show Steve. I'm so looking forward to the sound of your voice talking inane drivel for a full 50% of your daily three hour Celeb-tard gush fest to meet the increase in speech proportion pledged by his Mark-ness for Radio 2 day time. Perhaps Sir Mark forgot that Radio 2 was supposed to be a music station?

Save 6music! It may not get many listeners but I thought it was still the most popular of the BBC DAB only radio stations and gaining more all the time.

[Anonymous Coward]

Except...

Sarah Kennedy started that ages ago, people email "SWs" which is shorthand for "Steve Wrights" which is in itself shorthand for "love the show".

[paulf]

Nah

Sarah Kennedy's "SW's" is done in a somewhat affectionate way, at least she has always said that on those now infrequent occasions when she explains what it means. I think she started that in 2004 AFAIK.

The references by Jon Holmes and Collins+Herring certainly appear to be a little less than complimentary....

[pctechxp]

who cares

the only good things they put out are Top Gear and the Essential Mix

Other than that I wouldn't miss the Beeb if it stopped sucking on my bank account and died tomorrow

[Anonymous Coward]

re: who cares

Right, so you'd spend your days watching ITV3, Sky and QVC?

Nice.

[Anonymous Coward]

Online activities

A few years ago, the digital agency I was working for was asked by the Beeb to put in a pitch for a website that would attract teenagers, predominantly boys. That was the brief in its entirety… seriously.

What the site was, the BBC didn’t care – it just wanted young punters – and it had money to spend.

The reasoning – such as it was – was that as a brand, the BBC wasn’t loved by young ‘uns, who much preferred the likes of C4. This scared the powers that be and out came the chequebook – perish the thought that it might think about the type of programming that was being served up, rather than pouncing around with wesbites.

The reason my agency was approached was partly because of its reputation and partly because it had previously won one pitch – this was supposed to promise to untap a wealth of creativity of future talent, blah, blah but in reality was the usual Web2.0 user-generated community bollocks that was so beloved of the me-deya types... a complete waste of money and showed just how out of touch with reality the suits were.

[Tim Almond]

@jason 7

"The only BBC things I've made a date for are Being Human (a gem in a pile of dung) and Nurse Jackie (import)."

Children of Earth was pretty amazing, but I sometimes look at the BBC schedules and end up rewatching something from my DVD selection or a rerun of Frasier because what I'm being offered is so pitiful. Only Connect and Raymond Blanc's cookery show are about the only thing I've got on Series Link at the moment (and I'll watch Eggheads if I see it's on).

This week, I can see myself watching QI on BBC1 or 2 and that's it.

The worst areas are sitcom and drama. The BBC have produced maybe 3 good sitcoms this decade: The Office, Gavin and Stacey and The Thick of It (and if it weren't for Capaldi, I wouldn't include the last one).

[DaveB]

Simple test

Lets put Radio 1 on DABS and 6 music on FM.

[Oldfogey]

It's FREE, so i shouldn't comment!!!!!

The trouble is that BBC radio, which is what this is largely about, is a free service, and it is dificult to criticise something you get for free.

Do I hear cries of "But you pay for it in your license fee"?

No I don't, because I don't have a license - because I don't have a TV.

So thanks to the rest of you for providing a free service for me - including the occasional bit of TV through the iplayer (mainly Doctor Who).

Of course I can usually only get Longwave here, which just leaves me with the exzcitement of Radio 4. Still, theres always Spotify.

No, pocket radios don't work here.

[DPWDC]

Allert the Feds!!!

You know by watching iPlayer and NOT having a licence fee you're breaking the law...?

[Anonymous Coward]

FAIL

You only require a TV licence to watch or record live TV by any means including a computer. So if you're watching archived stuff on iPlayer you don't need a licence. Yet. No doubt the next time they amend the terms of the licence iPlayer will be covered.

Anyway I don't think you are a criminal as such if you watch TV without a licence. IIRC you only become a criminal if you fail to pay the fines.

[Anonymous Coward]

need more decent/high quality shows

BBC needs to focus on high quality programs that use the audiences brains and doesnt treat them as retards. thats the news, the comedy, the drama and science shows. ie back to solid basics. it needs to ditch all its stupid 'fad' things and let the commercial stations deal with those it also needs to get real with its pay structure and what it pays some of its radio show hosts and TC show hosts - there are plenty of just as good DJs and TV presenters that earn far far less.

a publically funded body should align its peoples pay to that of the average person.

yes, some of 6music content can be dragged kicking and screaming into suitable slots on the other BBC stations but that loses the point of what 6music was all about...though some could argue the uselessness of stretching the stuff that used to show on BBC2 onto BBC3 and BBC4.

perhaps more channels isnt..and never was...the answer.

[jason 7]

@Tim Almond

I fully agree. It's depressing.

Am I the only one that feels like the UK has been redesigned to cater to a totally different group of people over the past few years?

Someone somewhere decided that the UK needs to be redesigned for a whole different population for some reason and it's been re-engineered while we've been asleep.

I dont know who those people are.

I feel like I live abroad now but didnt choose to live here. The UK doesnt feel like my home anymore.

"This would never happen in the UK.....oh..hold on..."

[Anonymous Coward]

Too true

I left.

Where I am now doesn't feel like home either, but at least I don't expect it to. Sadly we can't unelect the tossers that broke the UK, and their likely replacements don't show much signs of wanting to fix it.

[Robert E A Harvey]

Nail

Nail in the coffin of dab.

Shut down 2 of the 3 good stations (R7 being left), then say 'listening figures have crashed'.

Next, shut down DAB. And good riddance

[Anonymous Coward]

ITS NOT DAB

Digital != DAB.

The BBC digital output is also on satellite, internet, cable.

Wish I could get DAB here (in France) :(

[Robert E A Harvey]

And where

where did I say shut down the internut and satellite versions?

DAB uses failed technology, too much battery power, and is too expensive for broadcasters. The interwebs have passed it by - let it die a natural death, like the video disk.

[Anonymous Coward]

please actually do something

don't just craft a beautifully-honed comment on a website, guys.

don't just sign some electronic petition.

because they won't change anything. religion was the "opium of the people"; nowadays it's writing online comments that keeps us all in our place.

maybe half a dozen people gave you the "thumbs up". you feel like you contributed.

but what changed?

nothing.

actually do something physical, tangible, instead, that will make these bad guys sit up.

[Anonymous Coward]

Irony?

Failed to point people in the direction of something readers could do to make "these bad guys sit up"

Fill this in:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/consultations/departments/bbc/bbc-strategy-review/consultation/consult_view

Feel free to mention things like lack of diversity, dross, east enders

Unneccessary AC because they did too!

[Sirius Lee]

Time to sell the BBC

The BBC is so out of touch. At a time when many families are struggling to make end meet, the BBC cuts services but chooses to spend the savings rather than cut the tax.

I'd like to see a future government go MUCH further and sell much of the BBC. A structured sale should earn the treasury billions contributing to the debt paydown and, eventually, reduce the licence fee tax considerably.

Some level of Public Service Broadcasting will alway be important and, remarkably, find myself in agreement with Kelvin MacKenzie that the BBC should revert to BBC1, BBC2 and a radio station. Let the commercial sector do the commerical stuff like soaps, game shows, dancing competitions and the BBC can do the 'cultural' stuff which will always be fringe and need support.

The BBC was founded at a time when it was necessary to support a nacent industry and technology. The need to support that industry disappeared a long time ago and continued support, through the licence fee tax, skews the market. Who knows what innovations would have materialized if the commercial sector didn't have a state supported leviathon to contend with.

Of course some will then post about 'British TV' becoming like US TV. I've lived in the US and, in my experience, the TV was pretty good. A few dominant players like NBC, CBS, Fox (a relative newcomer) and lots and lots of alternative choices and many local cable channels. Of course with the breadth there is a lot of rubbish but viewers don't need to watch the rubbish - just pick out the shows they like. Competition means that shows without a viable niche are canned pretty quickly - or sold to a UK TV channel.

Meanwhile apart from watching the occasional gem like Mock the week and Newsnight no one in our family watches the BBC but we still have to pay for it. My wife and I like the Discovery Channels the kids like Sky but tend to watch stuff on Youtube a *lots*. In my experience we're not unusual these viewing habits and preferences.

Like I say, I believe the BBC is well past it's sell by date and should be put into the pick and mix bin.

[Red Bren]

Look into your future...

"the BBC can do cultural stuff which will always be fringe"

Then the BBC's critics will complain about elitism, lack of value for money and the unfairness of the masses having to subsidise programming they don't watch. Meanwhile the commercial broadcasting landscape will be a cultural desert of dodgy soaps and vote-an-idol-out-of-dancing-on-whatever.

[Anonymous Coward]

Scrap BBC1 and BBC3 instead.

Nothing on either of those channels worth watching. The inane drivel pumped out on Saturday night must cost a fortune.

[jortonn]

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[jason 7]

@sirius lee

Nice pun there.

Anyway, sell off the BBC? Yes that may well raise 'billions for the Treasury' but as we've seen so often when yet another part of the family silver is sold off, that money just gets flushed down the toilet with nothing to show for it.

Selling everything off doesnt work. We just end up with no money and no benefit.

The BBC has just spread itself too thin trying to cater to everyone and in the end has just created a service that caters to no one in particular.

It's like all our 'public services' we need to get back to basics and strip out all the fluff.

How difficult is it to provide at least 12 hours of watchable/quality TV a day spread across two or three channels? I say three as its bleedin obvious there isnt enough for four.

Less choice, more quality.

[cosmogoblin]

uh what?

Hold on... I must have missed something here.

Because as I read it, the BBC are dropping a certain product because, er, it's good and successful.

I thought businesses (and yes, the BBC is one of those) wanted good and successful things, and would prefer to ditch rubbish stuff that nobody likes.

Did I wake up in a parallel world today?