back to article Canadian cops taser 'naked and agitated' man

Cops in Victoria, British Columbia, were obliged to taser a "naked and extremely agitated" man after a baton, a dog and pepper spray failed to subdue the belligerent perp. Police responded to a call on Saturday night reporting a male in his 20s "yelling at a woman trying to park her car in her driveway", the Victoria Times …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Flame

    Viva Canada...

    If it was the UK he would have had a "indecent exposure" rap and an obligation to sign the sex offenders list in a jiffie. With a few ASBOs for decorative purposes to boot.

  2. Stone Fox
    Stop

    someone you don't want to meet in a dark alley!

    Naked and unarmed he resisted 3 trained police officers and and german shepherd despite his breathing and eyesite being severly restricted by pepper spray.

    Wow.

    "Under the influence of drugs or alcohol"

    no shit. Half a bottle of jack and a couple of grams of PcP possibly?

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Unhappy

    "the Taser saved this man's life"

    So they're saying they would have shot him dead otherwise? Nice. I think I'd rather have a selection of decorative ASBOs.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      title goes here

      So he was a mortal threat to the officers lives? Naked???

      if not why did the office draw his weapon?

      I know lets shoot him first and make up the story later.

      Fuckwits.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Hmmm

    It sounds to me like both the police and dog need a bit more training!

    I'm also a little skeptical that the only option was to shoot him for shouting at someone parking a car.

    1. lglethal Silver badge
      Thumb Down

      its entirely possible...

      You've obviously never come up against someone on Ice (Meth for our american cousins). When someone snaps on that stuff, it can take more then 3 cops to take that person down as they a) no longer feel pain, b) gain phenomenal strength (probably because they cant feel the damage they do to themselves) and c) become violent as all hell!

      Ive personally seen an instance where 3 cops struggled to restrain an ice addict who'd snapped and even when they got him in cuffs it took 2 of them to hold the guy down. Oh did i mention he was only 5'7 and weighed maybe 50kg? Fucking scaring thing to watch. If i had been one of those cops i would have put a bullet in him and i certainly would have backed them on their justification for it!

      1. Intractable Potsherd
        Stop

        It sounds ...

        ... as if you live in the wrong place. You suggest that you are Canadian, but your attitude towards killing someone on drugs is remarkably Texan.

  5. Mike Shepherd
    Unhappy

    "...to subdue the belligerent perp"

    Wouldn't that be "to subdue the allegedly belligerent alleged perp" ?

  6. MinionZero
    WTF?

    Wow, he was really having a bad day!

    I think most people would be "extremely agitated" if someone had caught them "naked" and then tried to attack them with "a baton, a dog and pepper spray"! ... plus then its seems being threated with a gun and a Taser!

    Plus why did it save his life?! ... Don't cops know these days how to aim for just legs instead of aiming for a kill shot?!

    1. Fred Flintstone Gold badge
      Coat

      You're right..

      "I think most people would be "extremely agitated" if someone had caught them "naked" and then tried to attack them with "a baton, a dog and pepper spray"!"

      Yes, because (1) no idea where the baton has been and (3) pepper spray would probably itch like mad.

      What? Wrong story? Is this not the Buster one?

      The flasher Mac, please..

    2. Stuart Halliday
      Alert

      Dumb

      You can still kill someone shooting at their legs...

      Just take a nick of a main artery and you're dead in 2 minutes.

      1. Glyn 2
        Grenade

        Titles are for other people

        You're only supposed to blow the bladdy legs off

    3. Galidron
      Stop

      Leg Shots

      A leg shot has a good chance of being fatal. If you hit the major artery in it the target will bleed out in short order.

    4. Fashtas

      It isn't Holywood

      Police are trained to shoot at the trunk, only in the movies is it easy to shoot a moving suspect in the leg cleanly from 50 meters away with one shot...

    5. Dán
      FAIL

      No!

      You only ever shoot at what you don't mind killing.

  7. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

    @the Taser saved this man's life

    Yes,

    If the guy doesn't feel any pain or fear - your chouices are to club him unconscious or shoot him.

    Both of which are likely to lead to bad outcomes.

    Tazer as an alternative to a bullet or fractured skull = good

    Tazer as ana alternative to simpyl talking to someone = bad

    1. Fashtas

      @ Tazer as ana alternative to simpyl talking to someone = bad

      Yeah, chatting to screaming, naked druggie always works...

      It's a wonder that all those people being stalked by ex's for 20 years, who stand outside their house at 4 in the morning screaming abuse (then begging to be forgiven, then screaming abuse) don't try this easy, fail proof method method

      (Whats the end sarcasm tag again?)

  8. Tom Turck

    Taser used appropriately?

    How is this a story? Finally the taser used in an appropriate manner. We want to read about the cops tasing old ladies and torturing already subdued suspects to death....Can we clone those officers and replace the entire US police force with them?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Go

      Yeah, finally the taser used in an appropriate manner

      Because those fine Canadian policemen managed to taser quite a few innocents to death so far. I for myself feel way more comfortable whenever a policeman points his handgun at me instead of his electropistol. Believe me, this is really news here in Canada.

    2. mmiied
      FAIL

      it is a story because

      "Finally the taser used in an appropriate manner"

  9. Marvin the Martian

    "Were obliged"

    How so, and not "felt obliged"?

    Even if they come to the conclusion they have to do it after following procedures, it's usually an interpretation, as there is enough leeway to use professional judgement.

  10. LuMan
    Pint

    A dog!!??

    Er... I've got to ask.. Exactly WHAT did the dog do??

    Did it bite him?? And if so, where??!!?

    I mean, if I was naked and a police dog started towards me I'd be on the floor, face-down with my hands over my jewels!

    Actually, that sounds even ruder...

  11. Bill Fresher

    Dog training

    Had the dog been properly trained it would have clamped its jaws round the naked geezer's tackle and subdued him instantly.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Konstabel Els

      See title.

  12. 3kids2cats1dog

    20 years old in Victoria?!!

    Victoria BC, Canada is know for its gardens and the seniors that tends them.

    If I was a 20 year old in Victoria, I will welcome the "baton, a dog and pepper spray" then the Tasering. Just to breakup the boredom.... Naked is just a bonus!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Erm...

      Yeah, it was like that in the 1980s. It's just the same as everywhere else now. Drunken yahoos, mentally ill/homeless people roaming the streets, lots of drugs (and not the good ones, either).

      Place has gone downhill.... bloody kids... rawr mumblemumble GERROFF MY LAWN!

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Well...

    If his neighbour is anything like mine he could have been trying to sleep whilst she was revving the nuts off her car and burning the clutch out whilst attempting a basic parking manoeuvre for over 5 minutes... I say he was justified!

    I don't know if I'd be brave enough to stand naked in front of an angry dog, there would be too many sensitive bits at tooth height! Youch!

  14. Graham Bartlett

    @MinionZero

    Shooting someone in the legs was *never* an option, except in 70s cop shows. Nice idea if you've got someone prepared to stand still, but if you've got a doped-up nutjob running around at random, hitting them in the legs isn't a simple job. Sure, fire several shots and you'll get them, but meantime the stray bullets have taken out little Billy delivering papers and Aunt Gladys out walking her pekinese. Not clever.

    As even cursory research will show, firearms officers are taught to aim at the chest, because it's the biggest target and it doesn't move much.

  15. M7S
    Stop

    @MinionZero - Shoot to wound is a fallacy

    "Leg Shot" - Would you prefer the cop to nick the femoral artery so you bleed to death internally (the thigh will, in extremis, hold up to half your blood "lost" from the system in your muscles where it does no good) or punch stright through the blood vessel "cleanly" so you leak everything out in less than a minute?

    I doubt the suspect would be still long enough to rest the muzzle somewhere it might be less likely to kill or maim. I've not even started on the risk of shattering either the ankle joint (no replacement technology yet, other than an external hinge/fixator) or the long bones shattering in more than one place leaving the guy with a permanent limp.

    And then there's the risk of missing, with the round possibly ending up in someone else. Not something to be done lightly.

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Joke

    WOW

    Exactly how bad at parking is this woman?

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Terminator

    I need your clothes, your boots and your motorcycle

    I smell a ROTM story here, people. Obviously this "thing" was a newly-arrived Terminator, and only the fact that fortunately Tazers look like they affect their circuits save us all from bloody slaughter.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @the Taser saved this man's life

    Not sure what the general view of Police shooting people is in Canada but if it had been in the US then there shooting him would have raised too many eyebrows. When I lived near San Jose 10 years ago there was some concern over Police shootings ... but this was only because that year Police had shot dead the "normal annual average" of ~14 people by the middle of September - 14/year (for a population of ~ 1million) was about the acceptable limit ... scale it up to UK population and you get a figure of almost 1000 people shot dead by police per year

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Freak brothers quote

    "it is against Mexican custom to arrest naked, crazy man...."

  20. Kit-Fox
    Stop

    Lack of training!

    It shows a lack of training on the part of the police or an unwillingness to use said training. Am I seriously supposed to believe that 3 officers all of whom should have had some sort of 'CQB' training that should include how to use a baton effectively, how to bring down a person of any size (yes its that easy, even a 4ft nothing can bring down a 6ft 15stone monolith, with the right knowledge) and how to restrain them afterwards with minimal hurt or bodily harm to both parties.

    Either they werent paying attention or they dont want to risk injury, either way they have demonstrated that they do not belong in any police force.

    And all police officers should be made aware that when they take on the job they are signing up to be shot at / knifed / kicked / bit/ spat at / punched & even killed in the line of duty. If they arent up to accepting that risk and all that it means then they shouldnt try to do the job

    1. Mark 65

      Hmmm

      You ever tried tackling a 15st athletically built dude on PCP (if it turns out that's what he was on)? They don't feel much in the way of pain which is a serious disadvantage as most people will give up when they get a tweak. They also feel they're invincible, which isn't helpful either. I think we should give the police their dues until the full facts are known.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Vice versa

      And all ice heads should be made aware that when they do their thing they are signing up to be shot at / knifed / kicked / bit/ spat at / punched & even killed as a result.

    3. Glyn 2
      Joke

      police training

      Have you seen the police? They're either tiny fat women, tiny skinny girls, blokes who make Goody from the Thin Blue line tv series look macho or big fat men. They have to bus in actual real policemen from all over the country if there's any kind of serious fracas in the offing to get a decent showing of useful sized blokes.

      We had an exciting EDL/BNP rally in Stoke the other week, it was amusing to see how many police they'd brought in from how far away to police the event and they still had dwarfs (not the good kind with axes) and stick insects trying to hold back the raging tide.

      The salvation army would do a better job, they'd at least be able to lull them to sleep with their fine brassbandmanship.

      A mate joined up about 12 months ago and he's the kind you'd want to arrest someone, 6' 4" built like a tank and he says that the diversity training and the compassion training and the admin training means that the 5 minutes a week they spend on learning how to arrest people basically comes down to gang tackle and sit on their head.

      If you want proof on how bad the training is, watch how they hold a nightstick. It's a really devastating light, fast weapon when used correctly and that starts by holding it by the handle but instead they hold it like the old fashioned weighted truncheon and try bludgeoning people with it.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      letters and/or digits.

      You have obviously never experienced anyone crazed on a drugs+alcohol combo. I've seen a *small* guy that had to have four large (as in 6'+, well trained) officers sit on top of him in order to keep him down.

      From what I heard, once they got to the hospital, he managed to pretty much destroy a room there despite being handcuffed.

      Trained officer or not, I'd hate to think what it must have been like to stand in front of that kind of craziness scaled up to the guy described here.

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Canada westcoast crazies...

    No surprise here. I lived all around the world, but have seen more drugged up crazies here in Vancouver and BC then in all the other places combined.

    Naked man on drugs getting a little jolt..nothing to see. He was lucky that he wasn't Polish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Dzieka%C5%84ski_Taser_incident)

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up

    "a baton, a dog and pepper spray"

    sounds like my kind of party

  23. Alastair 6
    Thumb Up

    Lovin it

    Being from Victoria I'm getting a kick out of these responses.

  24. David 45

    Ouch, (falsetto)

    Where did they aim the taser? Would have been quite effective in the crown jewels area, I would have thought. For our American friends, crown jewels is/are........................oh, work it out for yourselves!

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Perhaps...

    ...a man who is naked, pepper sprayed, and ravaged by a dog, would be grateful of a quick tasering.

    When you find events running away with you and you are feeling exposed, sometimes you need a helpful jolt to knock things back into equilibrium.

    We should be able to "self medicate" and tase ourselves at times of unmanageable crisis. Business meeting going wrong? Losing that argument with the missus? Press "pause" on your life (Possibly "rewind". In extreme cases, "eject") in a way that lets those around you know you are not available to play their silly games any more.

    When you are lost for words, let your writhing body and involuntary bowel movements speak for you. When it seems your course is set, grab the wheel and give it a spin. When the brakes are shot, give the accelerator another try.

    Tase Your Day.

  26. raving angry loony

    BC's killer cops

    In BC (Vancouver, Victoria, etc.) the cops are notoriously untrained in take down moves and hand-to-hand combat. They'd rather kill people with tasers (1), shoot them in the back of the head (2), or just run them over while the officer is drunk (3). Then the officers invariably get "cleared" by an "internal investigation" conducted by their locker room buddies.

    BC is not a really good place to be if you want to have a good opinion of the local police force.

    (1) http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2007/11/14/bc-taservideo.html

    (2) http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2007/11/28/bc-ianbush.html

    (3) http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2008/10/28/bc-delta-crash-rcmp-officer-impaired.html

  27. Sean Bailey

    @Kit-Fox

    I'm unsure if they would have had CQB (close quarter battle) training, but perhaps A&R (Arrest and restraint) training.

  28. Adrian Jooste

    Fair?

    He gets beaten with a stick, man-handled, pepper-sprayed and then a dog is set loose on him only to finally electrocuted and he's the one charged with assault... I suppose it would only be considered to be excessive force if the events had unfolded in reverse. Tazer first, pepper-spray, dogs and batons later.

  29. Alistair MacRae
    Joke

    I need your clothes, boots and your motorcycle

    Did it actually bite him or did it offer soothing advice to try and calm the man down?

    He didn't sound that bad from the discription. The way it makes it sounds is he was shouting at a woman and then stood there whilst being attacked by policemen.

    As he was naked maybe he was a Terminator and he was shouting to the woman come with me if you want to live.

    If they'd used a gun he'd have been fine but as it was a tazer it caused a fuse to blow or something.

  30. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Nets? Tranquiliser darts?

    It's funny how zoo keepers and conservationists manage to handle polar bears, tigers and angry elephants without injuring them, but the police sometimes seem to think it both necessary and acceptable to kill out-of-control humans.

    1. Intractable Potsherd
      Pint

      Bravo ...

      ... best comment so far!

      (By the way - I know what I'm talking about. I used to work psychiatric wards where the police would bring in "aggressive" people that weren't. The record was six big male fuzz surrounding a small bloke being admitted on a s136 "Place of Safety" order. As the lift door opened, the blue wall parted, the bloke was pushed out at us (one bloke and two women) with "Here, he's all yours now, and you're welcome to him!". The lift door shut, and they went, not giving a fuck whether we could cope. The bloke smiled, and said "Hello, can I have a cup of tea?". He was discharged the next day. This was not unusual - the fuzz have no idea how to handle people with behaviour outside the norm, and forget that their role is to "Keep the peace", not disturb it.

  31. Paw Bokenfohr
    Happy

    surely only in BC...

    ...can you be charged with "mischief" ;-) It just sounds so like something a 19th century street urchin would be getting up to.

  32. Rogerborg

    "Saved his life"?

    So, their only remaining option was to execute him by gunshot to the head?

  33. Jesthar
    FAIL

    Re: Nets? Tranquiliser darts?

    "It's funny how zoo keepers and conservationists manage to handle polar bears, tigers and angry elephants without injuring them, but the police sometimes seem to think it both necessary and acceptable to kill out-of-control humans."

    That's down to a few key points:

    1. The humans have somewhere between partial and total choice and control of the darting environment. In kept environs, the animals and keepers usually know each other pretty well, too.

    2. The darting usually takes place from behind some nice, sturdy bars or a nice, sturdy truck

    3. If things go wrong, you have planned for this and just get out of the cage/area whilst things settle

    4. The humans either know the weight of the animal to be darted from regular health checks, or have a good idea, and adjust the amount of tranquiliser given accordingly. Not enough, and the animal doesn't dgo down and get's scared/stressed/annoyed. Too much, and the animal could easily die.

    None of those conditions are usually the case in police confrontations. However, if things do go badly wrong and people are in serious danger, shooting to kill is a final resort option in either situation, albeit not one that anyone EVER wants to have to take...

  34. Shadowfirebird

    ...itle...tle...le...

    If he was unable to feel pain (PCP, ICE, whatever) ... then how did the tazer work? Or am I just being thick here?

    Alternatively, if he couldn't feel pain and the tazer worked anyway, it wasn't cruel, was it?

    1. PsychicMonkey
      Grenade

      feeling pain

      I think that the taser will work because it causes the muscles to stop working, so it's not the pain that does the bringing down.

  35. NBCanuck

    Tasers donot work based on pain

    Whether a person can feel pain or not is not really relevant. A taser passes a current through the skin that trigger muscle action - enough that it over-rides your own nervous system's attempt to move them. I'm damn sure it does not feel great to have your muscles start twitching all at once (and no shock ever feels good) but I still think it is safer that having the police take somone down forcably. In this case especially the police tried traditional methods and resorted to this as a last measure.

    If it comes down to it, I'd rather see a person get tazed than a police officer injured.

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