Air France offers two-seat deal for fatties Air France KLM has decided to suggest to overweight self-loading cargo that they pay for two seats to accommodate their bulk if it is "deemed too large to fit into just one seat of a 43-44cm width", as the Daily Mail puts it. The Mail says that obese passengers will be charged 75 per cent of the cost of the second seat, but …
Maybe if the airlines provided seats that are realistic with legroom that someone taller than 5'6" can sit in without having their knees rammed up against the seat in front and a headrest that doesn't dig instead into my shoulders then this kind of thing wouldn't be suggested.
I'm sick of airlines treating me like a one-size-fits-all component. I'm 6'3" have a 31" inner leg and I don't fit into their midget option seating plan.
Unless Air France are fitting their planes with bench type seats, I can't imagine placing one buttock per seat is going to be very comfortable. This is for the comfort of other passengers who don't want rolls of lard spilling over from the seat next to them.
Airlines should insist on seating all rotund passengers next to each other and let them sort out their comfort and personal space issues themselves.
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While they are at it, why do I pay a bundle for overweight luggage when some fattard next to me might be carrying a few kilos less luggage but a third of a ton more lard in their underpants.
They should start charging airfares on total weight carried. Give the fat f*****s an incentive to eat a few fewer pies.
In case you think I'm bitter, it's thanks to a transatlantic flight ruined by a grossly obese whale wedged into the seat next to me.
O
Why do admittedly skinny fuckers like me get charged the earth for an extra kilo, while some lardarse gutbucket (h/t NTNOCN), who can barely restrain the equivalent weight of my entire luggage with his belt, fly on the same damn fare as me.
Beer, because I need it to have a chance of sleeping if I'm sat next to one.
but anybody who has been forced to sit in a long haul flight next to someone who takes up half of your seat as well will defintiely not be amongst them...
Now if only they would police the rules to stop people bringing on mountains of hand luggage and administer sleeping drugs to anybody under the age of 15* and flying would be considerably more enjoyable for everyone! =)
* We can debate the exact age if we must but i suggest 15+/-3 seems a reasonable limit for annoying childish behaviour...
On something with only 2 seats adjacent (i.e. between the window and the first aisle), buying 2 seats would be enough, but otherwise, a larger person actually causes problems for occupants on both sides of them, so that's 3.
I'm not saying this is right or wrong or having a go at fat people, just stating a fact. No flames please!
With three adjacent seats, two of the seats only have an adjacent seat on one side, so it is only a problem for two adjacent people 33% of the time.
Four adjacent seats has 50% problem.
And having been on an Air France Dornier 328 recently, what happens if the only seats left are the singles?
There's some detail missing here that suggests this story is bogus.
Such as is this "real" full price (e.g. 15x what any sane person would pay) or 75% of the purchased fare?
In addition - if you show up at checkin (or boarding presumably) and they have a seat to sell you, then presumably the seats are available anyway.
Finally - in addition to the spokesdroid denying the story, KLM's FAQ also denies that corpulent passengers buy a second seat.
That having been said: I think airlines ought to come up with a solution for large pax. I hate it when my neighbour spills into my seat.
'Massive' FAIL. Airline seats aren't deisgned to join together to make one seat... unless these larger people don't mind an armrest up their jacksy upon take-off and landing or sticking into their blubbery backs during the flight it doesn't really make a whole lot of difference I would have thought! Just as well they all have a jolly sense of humour... according to the stereotype.
Having been forced to sit squeezed between the window and one over weight obese lard tub, too often to care to remember, I only wish they had put this into place a decade earlier.
if someone weighs thrice as much as me, they should either pay more, or stop haraasing me if my carry on luggage is 1 kg over the limit
You're right:
1. Plane has at least 2 available seats: lardarse gets a refund.
2. Plane full, i.e. has no spare seats, then lardarse doesn't get a refund, and passengers sat next to him/her get squashed and get nothing in compensation. Or will the airlines use lardarse's supplement to distribute equally amongst squashed neighbours?
1. If the flight is fully booked or over-subscribed, then they don't get a refund. They've paid for the extra seat so they still get it. By paying for an extra seat, they prevented another paying passenger from boarding.
2. If the flight is not fully booked then they do get a refund because the extra seat that they have paid for would have been empty anyway.
It's logical innit?
Hmmmm can I have a rebate from the amazingly fat woman who sat next to me on a flight back from Austria once who was ooozing under the arm-rest and into my seat? I mean, she didn't even buy me dinner first!
OOoo fatism begins! WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!
Let's be realistic. This isn't aimed at people carrying a few pounds they (or their partners) might wish they weren't. This is for the chronically obese people who genuinely don't fit into a normal aircraft seat. It's not just for them, it's for the people who have to sit next to them too.
It costs more to fly them, I don't want to have to pick up that extra tab, so they should pay. And before someone tells me that "It's genetics" or "I'm big boned" it's not. There are a few hormonal issues that might do it, but in the very vast (oh the pun) number of cases it's simply due to too many pies. And if it's medical, then I'm sure the airline would be accomodating (the puns keep coming!)
I'd probably better don my flame proof suit now...
Good point -- they'd better make sure they charge for fat kids too. That might actually encourage the parents to stop shoveling shite down their necks.
Don't stop at planes though, a fat-tax in other areas (I'm thinking public transport and the medical care) might give the uber-uber-chunky section of the populace the financial incentive they need to put down the fork.
If they arrive at the check-in desk and are deemed to be too large, then it's too late to sell them an extra seat if the flight is full, and if the flight is not full then they won't be charged for the extra seat anyway, so why bother?
Or is it really a frequent occurrence that the last seats are sold a few hours before departure?
And if the passenger doesn't fit in a seat and refuses to buy a second seat, or can't because the flight is full, then how do they fly, while complying with safety regulations?
Most flights are actually over sold but the airlines assume (rightly so) that a certain number of people are not going to turn up to the flight - there are big long algorithms that control this and the amount of overselling. Its standard practice.
So when the fat person turns up they will have to buy a second seat (as part of the overselling) and should not everyone turn up and the flight isnt full then they get there money back... Its entirely probable that the airline wont know if there will be spare seats until check in is complete. Hence the refund AFTER the flight...
I'd like to have complained to the big, fat, bald man in the leather biker jacket. He took up half of my seat AND smelled of sweat and beer.
But I have the feeling that having a seat stuck up my jacksie and my head out of the window would have made the rest of the flight a bit uncomfortable.
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OK, what about us barrel chested freaks?
I am 5'10", due to a lot of upper body sport when I was growing up my chest is 48", but my waist is only 36"!!
I hate sitting down on trains as I have to lean to one side to avoid crushing those next to me. Window seat? Forget it, has to be aisle or I stand!
The sooner they weigh the entire baggage, self loading and non, the better. I'm sick of getting fined for being a few kilo over on my luggage when the person standing behind me in the queue is at least twice my girth!
As for sitting on the plane and loosing one limb (sometimes two) under someone else's fold, please, I'd rather not think about it!
"I quite agree, the cost of the ticket should be based on your total flight weight, as that is what fuel has to be burnt to carry you. "
How about the cost of the fuel to lift the plane off the ground? What about the cost of the plane - and the maintenance and cost of the flight attendant and the drinks and the ....
Just saying.
I would pay for the extra seat, just so i dont have any anoying twat next to me on a 10 hour flight....
no matter what, anyone sitting next to you that is not family of a friend will be anoying on a long haul flight....
back to the fatties... if they have to pay extra, the money should go to the person in the adjacent seat.....
I liked the idea of putting three of them in a row together and let them sort it out. Maybe what they should do, in many cases they don't need a full extra seat. So, put two in the row and each pays half for the extra seat. Since the airlines like surcharges, how about a fat surcharge?
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First, in the interest of full disclosure, let me say I am not a small man. I do however carry my excess primarily on my front, not on my sides.
The problem I have is my bloody shoulders. No matter how much weight I lose, my shoulders are not going to get any narrower, and it's not as if airplane seats are sized for Joe Average to begin with. So what do I do on an airplane? I cross my arms, or do whatever I can to roll my shoulders forward to decrease the total width of my torso. This usually results in an afternoon of discomfort for me, but they're my shoulders, and I shouldn't expect any one else to sacrifice their comfort on account of me.
Having said that, part of me is all for a compulsory extra seat purchase. The realist in me, however, asks the question of where to draw the line. If someone is 1 cm over "the line" they are "as bad" as someone who would literally fill up both seats. I just foresee "the line" being made smaller and smaller as airlines figure out it's an easy way to generate a lot more revenue.
Having had too suffer next to a lard arse flying home from amsterdam last friday I suggested this very thing (well actually I suggested that if your arse is wider than the seat you should get put in the baggage hold).
Seriously on an hour and a half flight to Edinburgh my entire right side went numb as I was contorted into such a strange position.
Still better to than the poor bastard I saw before Xmas on the same route when a rather large couple had booked themselves into the ailse and window seats, his kind offer to swap so they could sit together was turned down.
I was one of the last to board. Seat number..OK. Finding myself next to a 'tub of lard' I called the flight attendant over. She was (AA, natch) angry at being bothered by one of those strange things that pay the wages..Oh, 'Customers'.
"Just (the 'fuc*king was implied) sit the (implied again) down".
Finally I showed her the problem. Not only was the lard-tub - window seat - occupying both her and my seat, making it impossible to fasten my belt, let alone sit in my seat, she was enchroaching the fuck*ing aisle with some pink treetrunks someone might have mistaken for legs! She could have prevented the drinks trolley proceeding down the aisle. Far more worrying, natch.
Flight attendant relented, when I suggested she (F/A) swap places - me in her 'jump-seat' , her in mine...(She could've sat on my lap, but I wasn't in the mood), I got a new seat. At the back, where the drinks trolley starts from. Then reversed when stopped by the treetrunks. There are small mercies...YESSSS!
God-all-fuc*king-mighty, I've _never_ seen a fatter person. By her (rather pretty) face, I'd have guessed the lass at about 35-40. I'd have pity, but (AA gives out 'grab-bags' for lunch as you board on internal flights) I noticed she had grabbed three. Genetic? Pull the other one.
One other thing - she would NOT have got out of the over-wing emergency exit in an emergency. Now, ain't that a better reason to restrict fatties? "Place your carry-on in here, so we can make sure it's regulation. Now please pass through this pervy all-body scanner. Ta muchly, now be so kind as to pop into the departure lounge through this emergency-exit-sized window. Thank you so much".
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I dont think they raise the armrest and sit one cheek-per-seat. Its more of a 'don't let your fatty-boom-batty behind smother the normal person' situation.
Its so they can have some spill over and not kill the small child beside them.
Good idea though. Being fat is not a disability, its a hilarious joke - in fact taking the piss out of a fat person is great - its like being racist but without the social stigma.
Of course not, but in time you might get a free "seat horn" to wedge yourself in and out as required.
I guess that ideal method is to charge passengers by the volume of space they consume.
Short, thin people get a discount, and tall fat people pay a surcharge. Average sized, ie those that fit perfectly in the seat spaces, pay the normal price.
Sorted, no discrimination at all!
I love your vague argument "because of glandular conditions, or something like that". Perhaps you mean one of the many forms of Hypothyroidism.
I don't think anybody should be forced to pay extra because they have an illness that's not self-inflicted, but the majority of overweight people (including me) are overweight because of their eating habits and insufficient exercise. That's a choice that people make, and I shouldn't have to pay for other people's choices, nor they have to pay for mine. Obesity is a nobody else's fault.
Make 'em pay for inflicting their choices on others. Anyone with a medical condition should have the right to a waiver.
But then again, in the States which is famous for the number of XXL sized people, you just need to pay a doctor to give you a diagnosis for whatever you want, so maybe it doesn't work in practice.
"What about people who are overweight because of glandular conditions,"
those are extremely rare, few and far between.
although i guess you could argue for those with big bones too (yes, they exist but are rare)
most fat people use glandular conditions as an excuse when in fact it's simply not true ... most obese people are like that because they're lazy and over-eat.
i've only met 1 person in my lifetime so far (33) that has a legitimate medical condition for being obese and it's not a glandular condition.
so yeah, tax the diseased, if thats what you like to call lazy fat types :D
Not an overeating thing this - the poor bastard in front has to suffer my knees in his back unless I get on of those window seats with leg room and then the poor bastard next to me has to suffer me curled over him by the roof. I have to stand for most of the flight, cant piss in the toilets without limbo dancing.
Pigs going to slaughter get more space than humans on a flight.
Cynic-Mode: On
Surely if the customer is being ass-essed at the check in desk, they already have a pretty good idea whether the flight is full or not and can either waive the fee right there and then or obtain a hold for the fee on the customer's CC and only put it through if the flight does turn out to be full.
I'm sure that won't happen, though, and they'll charge the oversized self-loading freight for a second seat regardless and then take 6-8 weeks to refund the amount (by cheque, no doubt), during which time, it's sat in the bank earning a little bit of interest. Multiply that little bit of interest by all the big butts who fly and you've got a nice little earner.
Only if that gaunt smoke smelling cheese eating surrender monkey is also entitled to get their money back for having had to share their personal space with Burberry-wearing, intellectually-challenged, Jeremy Kyle-watching, fish and chips eating twat (possibly like yourself...?).
As I'm not English, would I be entitled to get twice my fare refunded if I had to sit in between an English person and a French person? Although given the choice I'd always prefer to sit next to the Frenchie than an English person.
Every day when I wake up I thank the Lord I'm Welsh
solid dividers between seats, which would extend from the bottom side of each seat to the bottom of the armrest (almost universally accepted as the dividing line between seats) ?
The customer's butt fat absolutely COULD NOT intrude into the next seat in the aisle (my divider could not do anything about arms and shoulders, however. I leave that to another inventor). Dividers could also be installed facing the aisle, so butt fat could not be simply extended into the aisle, blocking the all-important drink trolley.
This way, if Mr or Ms Wideload don't fit, they don't ship - no more usurping other passenger's seat space. There is always first class - their seats are much wider. Even Rosanne Barr will fit into a first class seat. The BIG plus - if Mr or Ms Overweight does manage to cram themselves into a regular coach seat with dividers, they would be the ONLY uncomfortable passenger. That could be the wake up call they need to start losing weight - the big difference between pricing for coach and first class seats.
Paris, because she can intrude into MY seat space anytime ( LOL ! I always end up beside a fat guy, two rows behind some screaming child and / or infant).
The seats are too small. I'm a fairly skinny bloke and i find the seats to be much to close together and as pointed out above, they do this to fit more people on so they can make more money.
Sorry but that;s not a good enough reason to keep somone crammed into a small space for 14 hours!
It's not healthy..
Fat people are still people and there are plenty of them and always will be, just ignoring that when seeing how many seats you could possibly fit inside an aircraft is not a responsible thing to do. Oh and now look, fat people cant actually fit in the damn seats. I know,instead of acepting the design flaw let's just make them pay more.
Good point on the emergency exit's, what happens if the overweight chap gets there first and blocks the door ?
I too would prefer to be put to sleep and put in the hold, to relive the bordom if nothing else. Why is that not an option by the way?
Would you like a sedative with your vile tasting lunch sir?
I'm resorting to staying up all night before my flight to mexico next week- that way i plan to be exhausted when i board so that i will mercifully sleep through some of the flight.
let me just add that sitting next to a fat guy is nothing compared with sitting in a 100% full747 full of North Indian's who can talk and talk and talk and talk for 9 hours without pausing to breath. And let's not forget the Mother of three spoilt little kids that scream through most of the flight while she does nothing to stop them.
Well I consider myself "a bit overweight" although it's more muscle than fat these days (thank-you exercise!) and I've never had an issue getting my bum into the seats, even when I weighed over 3 stone more than I do now. Although I have fairly broad shoulders and this presents me with the same issue, just higher up.
I must admit that I'm stumped on this one as I can't decide which way to lean (not literally). If people can't actually fit into one seat then I guess maybe it's fair that they pay the extra, but then as others have said what about families with screaming kids ruining flights and other "plane" annoyances? Personally I'd like anyone with a screaming child on a flight to have to pay a portion of my ticket price to make up for the aggravation. After all, if I was in a cinema I'd walk out and demand a refund if it was bad enough.
On one side of the coin it seems fair to charge people by weight when they fly, but then what about taller people who will naturally weigh more than short ones - even in good physical shape?
You could argue that they should make the seats larger, but that means less seats on a plane and then EVERYONE has to pay a higher ticket price.
To be honest, as long as I can still get into my seat, sitting next to a fat person in itself doesn't bother me......unless they smell. The smell of a sweaty fat person who doesn't wash properly between their "folds" is perhaps one of the least pleasant things to be stuck with.
For comparison, indicative Qantas/Air France Sydney-to-Paris prices (one way) are
1000 Economy
5000 Business
9000 First Class
So for a 75% surcharge (2000), you get better than Business width, and less than Business cost.
Actually, there is already a "wide class" on some airlines, where you get a Business class seat, but without the Business class drinks. The problem with that is you end up sitting next to other wide-shouldered blokes, for no net benefit.
If they let ordinary business men in on this offer, they will eat all the "wide class" business. And probably cannibalize their own business class as well. So their problem is not going to be getting fat people to pay: it's going to be stopping the ordinary big blokes from pretending to be fat.
I've long thought that this is the only proper way to charge for airline tickets. Either a flat fee as with railways or pay per kilo. Makes it hard to pay online, though.
Still, soon enough, Google will know how heavy you are, and will be, and that should make the airlines happy.
On a final note, I'm surprised that struggling Irish entrepreneur/taxi-driver, M. O'Leary, hasn't yet taken the headlines by banning fatties on his planes. Tsk, tsk, leaving it to the French indeed, Mr. O'Leary. Are you losing your touch?
Nowadays that's usually a packet of imitiation peanuts, if you get anything. In a year or two it will be accepted practice that you have to pay for tapwater. Given that you have to pay a fortune for every damn thing else on the plane, I've often wondered how long being able to block the emergency exits was going to stay free.
This is just retaliation for the Yanks renaming French Fries to Freedom Fries after the Frenchies (quite rightly) suggested that Dubya was wrong to invade Iraq and wouldn't support his military actions.
I don't think it'll be necessary to have passengers walk through thin doorways or weigh themselves as there's a much simpler, quicker and more effective method... they'll just get the check in staff to look for anyone with an American passport.
25% off the cost of the seat for being a little large, eh? How long before someone tries to smuggle on an extra passenger on board under their clothing (midgets strapped to midriffs abound) and give their "belly" a seat for a healthy cash saving.
I suggest that this is the true reason for the new Airport Perv Scanners. They are, in fact, cheeky cheapskake spotters.
Never mind charging for the extra seat, how long will it be before RyanAir split the fare further by levying a carriage charge for flying with them and a mandatory seating charge to sit down?
If they can get away with charging a "check in" charge on all flights (web and walk-up), then they'll get away with splitting the fare.
Flying back home with sunburned arms that were peeling and a person of size was trying to take my space. I pointed out that most leprosy is no longer contagious and they don't send you to leper colonies anymore. I don't think the guy ever got so much exercise trying to keep his fat away from me.
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