I love the fact that someone can be a loyal customer for ages then be a 'customer lost' when one thing doesn't quite work out...
Apple customers are howling over a pair of recurring flaws in the company's new iMac desktops. Some buyers say machines are arriving on doorsteps with a conspicuous crack in the lower left-hand corner of Apple's built-in display, while others howl that their freshly-shipped systems won't even turn on. Each flaw has spawned …
I am much concurring here, having been a 'user' since 1995. I guess the trick is you have to have had your eyes open. I understand that Cupertino can make mistakes, so when confronted by fail it does not disturb my world view.
Mac's are nice systems.
OS X is a nice Unix - we even get Photoshop again without having to run IRIX
Relax, everybody has a problem form time to time, despite what the Cupertino propaganda machine may say.
Paris - because she's hot. Being a fanboi I always go for proper form, sometimes function follows
I imagine that they feel that they have paid through the nose for the last 15 years to buy a product that is just perfect and they've just had their rose tinted glasses broken.
For many people, paying more for a quality, reliable product which you don't have to worry about is a sound move. For many it is even the best economic decision. But it only works so long as the products are perfect, so long as they really do not ever need to worry about them. The moment they are bust then there is no difference between a mega buck uber Apple and a 5buck back street windows box, if it's bust it's bust.
...the word ApplFAN. It implies a certain fruitiness, has a reference to an Application (App) and points to a certain part of the human body's lower posterior...FANny.
But you're right. The constant use of non-words always implies a lack of maturity if not education. Which certainly covers Apple Fanatics if not the parents who actually make the money to buy the toys.
> how about you stop using the word 'fanbois'? Say 'fanboys' if you feel the need to try to be funny (and fail) but at least stop using made up words.
> It's not a word.
> If you use it, that makes you a moron.
'tard? How about 'tard? Is that better than ``fanboi''? personally i take offense at ``moron''. for info, most words were made up at one or other point in their life, and also other words have their meanings changed. what ever happened to l33t-speak? did that offend you too? how about ``lol'', didn't that make you laugh out loud? Do you get yr nikkers in a twst abt uther perposefull missppeelllings made four saik ov youmor? Misplaced apostrophe' drive up yr' blood pressure too? Fer christsake lightenup! Pedant! That's also a word!
I picked up my 27" Core i7 iMac today from UPS and when I got it all unpacked it wouldn't turn on either. Having read this story earlier on MacRumors, I was gutted as I assumed mine was DOA. However, after some investigation it seems that my problem was down to a slightly funny power button. A light press until it clicks doesn't seem to do it, I have to press it a little firmer but it now works like a champ!
Apple doesn't need quality control... their fans will pay for any ol' crap coming out the doors.
I'll take a beige box any day of the week over some glitz because I can ...
1. Fix it myself without special tools
2. choose the parts I want to fix it with and not something on a special authorized list
3. pay less for #2 because I hate paying for overpriced #2 (there's a pun in there somewhere)
4. usually get satisfaction sooner than letting some corporate tech fix it.
Linux, windows, mac, BeOS, OS/2, DOS, ... who cares what OS it runs, the hardware is what runs it and if the hardware is overpriced and unable to be fixed with just a screwdriver or two that I can find at any old hardware store, then it's just not worth it.*
so if you're a mac head, get a mac pro and forget about the all-in-one iMac-in-trash. Even though it's not a "beige box", it's still a box and can be fixed with a screwdriver or two.
*mobile devices are exempt from this rule.
There is no way I'm fixing a computer that's DOA - no matter what colour it is. For a lot of buyers an "all in one" is a great way to go. Seriously, you want some horrible box cluttering up your home?!
Mac Pros are all very nice, but currently the iMac is far better value in the Apple range (and actually not bad amongst all computers). The Mac Pro looks really expensive at present, compare a single processor Mac Pro with 30" Apple display with the iMac Core i7 - that Mac Pro doesn't look like good value does it (sure it has a Xeon, bigger screen and slots - but wowsers it's expensive)?
I imagine Apple will release a new Mac Pro (and displays) early next year that will address this pricing discrepancy.
On the OS front, I think that's at least as important as the hardware (maybe more so) as it dictates which applications you can run. (Probably BeOS, OS/2 and DOS will be a bit limiting - application wise)
No, according to the new Double Secret Probationary Customer Warranty Rules just never released today or any other day, Apple Products are required to be imported on ships manned by sailors whose families have not seen smoke of any kind back at least three generations. Evidently somebody conveniently "forgot" about a World War, winter, lighting a candle or a barbecue.
Caveat FanBoy as we say in Cupertino.
It's unfortunate that there's so many DOA's here and I think it's unfair to blame Apple for any of this. They appear to be trying their best to sort it out in the customer's best interest. However, this does bring to mind what I see as the biggest reason why I prefer to use PC hardware instead of Mac hardware. I enjoy having the ability to personally piece together the parts, and take them apart when there's a problem. Prepackaged and inflexible gear from Apple, Dell, HP, etc leave an uneasy feeling in my stomach.
@All those who post here and elsewhere those posts saying that this is overreacting, that it's a small thing and that it should not have been reported.
1) If the thread is ~200 pages long, it's clearly not a small thing.
2) Even if it was, this is what news are for. You don't only report when a WW starts or ends. If you don't want to read about "small things" (your definition may vary), don't, that's the most effective algorithm I am aware of.
Most funny is that the sort of people who post these probably posted a long, massive critic on the IE 6/7 bug (just an example, I hate Microsoft (and Apple, for that matter)).
Hahahaha, I would never pass this up.
iMacs are CRAP.
I have said this, and I will say it again.
iMacs are CRAP.
ALL the _disadvantages_ of a laptop and desktop rolled into one with NONE of the _advantages_ of either.
FFS, people, don't buy this shit. If you don't apple will be eventually forced to release cheaper 'proper' boxen.
I can't believe and wasn't aware that they are actually putting i7's in these POS's...
What a waste, FFS.
Such a waste... such a waste.
An iMac gives you a nice big screen and all the power of a desktop without taking up a huge chunk of space either on or below your desk. I'd say those a pretty significant advantages. If you don't need a RAID array or slots for special purpose PCI Express cards (and these days with USB and Firewire peripherals most people don't) then the extra bulk of a desktop is pointless.
The only advantage a laptop has over an iMac is that it's portable. Otherwise it costs more for less power and a much smaller screen.
So, if you're not working on editing the next Pixar animation, and you don't need your computer to be portable, then an iMac is by far the best option (and the cheapest too).
1) They haven't had time to fine tune the manufacturing process
2) They are rushing to get as many units out the door as possibly at the expense of proper quality control.
3) They have to replacements in stock so if there is a problem you can't just walk into an Apple Store and have them exchange it.
Being an early adopter is never the most rational response. Of course, having seen a 27" iMac, you can understand irrational responses (it really is something to behold). It appears this issue is only on the Core i7 variant, others are fine (well have the normal number of DOAs - this happens with all products).
Of course, this problem is made even more annoying for those affected by the simple face that the Core i7 is a build to order option - and a popular one. You can't get it swapped from stock, and replacing machines is adding to already long(ish) lead times.
However, given all this nobody at Apple has denied the problem, and customers have been told exactly what kind of lead time to expect. I don't really see what more Apple can do. Clearly Apple will also want to understand why this fault is afflicting new systems and correct the problem (you can see that such an effort will do nothing to speed up the lead times).
So is the iMac Core i7 a nice machine? Yes. Should I buy one now? Well if you're really in need of it, sure... But personally I'd hold off until the new year, let Apple address this. This kind of issue happens in the computer industry all the time, the problem for Apple is they have "iconic" brands and the iMac is such an iconic brand that problems like this get noticed. If we were talking about some HP machine with some cryptic number for a name would this be as interesting? (Would El Reg use words like Fanbois or "howling" - no, they probably wouldn't even report it, because nobody would be interested. Given HP's quality control it would be hard to notice that any particular machine had a problem more than the normal shoddy junk they barf out anyway).
So the original commenter was right - being an early adopter of ANYTHING is a risk, sometimes it pays off and you get to enjoy a product before anyone else other times ... you get to talk to technical support (which is rather less fun).
...surely "it's no big deal".
Having said that, I think that the real story will be Apple's response. After all, every company drops one every now and then: the measure of how good a company it is is the quality of the response. £50 of iTunes vouchers would probably be a good starting point.
The problem is simply that Apple doesn't make their own computers anymore. Now they only design them and send the design to cheap taiwaneese or chineese companies which put just as much care into production as they do with other products from other brands. Now since Apple products often are more challenging to produce, the rate of defects is higher.
I may be wrong, but I thought apple used Foxconn for some of their parts... And whilst Foxconn aren't the biggest of brands, they have been making some very good stuff recently..
In fact, even the cheapest of manufacturers have better standards than this fiasco...
Oh, and I'm a PC user, not a mac fanboi
The trouble, Tony, is that Apple have *only* quality going for them. Microsoft has marketshare, Linux has servers and nerds who like to tinker, and Apple has remarkable build quality, aesthetics and stability out of the box. When those things are not delivered, it's a *huge* blow to the Apple customer, just like if Microsoft said "We're making our own internet, IE won't work with regular web anymore" and if the Linux community said "We're taking away conf files in favour of a Windows Registry-style central settings repository."
It's akin to Rolls Royce shipping Phantom Drophead's with a tear in the roof lining. You bet they'll lose customers.
Good analogy. Indeed it is like having a Roller delivered with a tear in the roof. It is also a good analogy because Rollers are expensive and are not that good. There are many cheaper and better engineered cars that offer better comfort, handling, power, economy, but do not have the badge...
It's dissapointing (for Apple as much as anyone) that whichever factory in China is stuffing these machines up. It happens, but of course it's not acceptable, and customers are bound to feel hard done by. But at the end of the day, if Apple set things right and replace the machines then it's not the end of the world.
I ordered a Macbook Pro a couple of months ago - buiit to order with bigger HDD, memory etc. When it arrived, there were two notable dents in the base of the machine (presumably where someone in China had damaged it while installing the extra parts). I wasn't best pleased, but after a call to Apple we ended up with a perfect replacement machine one week later and £60 off the bill. Seemed fair enough to me.
What's the big deal here? All companies, even ones that pride themselves on quality that you pay extra for, will have some quality issues from time to time. It's just not possible to have a 0% fault rate. What's more important is how problems are dealt with if and when they arise, and I have no doubt that Apple will replace the broken iMacs as soon as logistically possible. It's very unlikely that Apple will lose any significant number of customers over this.
My Miele washer/dryer was DOA when delivered, but Miele quickly sent a man round to fix it and it has worked flawlessly since. I'm still glad I paid more for a top quality product.
I expect to replace my iMac soon and wouldn't hesitate to buy one of the new 27" models.
All machines have a failure rate, and citing 200 pages of turdspurt doesn't mean this is a serious problem, it's more an indication that folk are finding places to whinge more easily.
What will be important is how the company deal with this - how much information is made available, speed of replacement and so on. Give us an update in a week or so, then we may be able to form a better opinion
DOA Failure rates of shipped products are like 1%. Yes, 1 in 100 systems is bad IN THE BOX. This is lower for some models than others (particularly desktops are vulnerable, not so much laptops), but seriously, a 27" 30lb machine in a flat box easily squashed by UPS and you're blaming APPLE? Why not point the finger at fucking greenpeace on this one for making apple reduce their packing to such extreme measures things like this happen...
If you had bothered to read the story before starting your fanbois fud you would have noticed that people complaining are pointing out no damage to the boxes. Also, when everyone reports the same fault (crack in lower left corner of screen), it points to a quality issue. Either inspections before packing were lacking, or packing itself neglected to properly support this part of the screen. Either way it's a fail.
"Either inspections before packing were lacking, or packing itself neglected to properly support this part of the screen."
Or, it's a mechanical failure for unknown reasons. Every electronic device has a DOA rate. Computers are no exception. Can you tell us what the DOA rate is for the i7 iMac? And how it compares to other computers?
In spite of all the made up stories from Apple-bashers, no one claims that Apple is perfect or that there will never be a problem with Macs. If this is a significant problem, it will be fixed - Apple has always done so.
And, in the end, Apple CONTINUES to have the best customer satisfaction and reliability ratings of any computer vendor.
Of course, you're quite right, Apple isn't perfect and neither is any other manufacturer.
What makes it so much fun (form my point of view at least) is the apoplexy that the fanbois exhibit whenever you suggest that their lord Jobs may be, shock horror, only human or, worse still, the hardware may not have been assembled by choirs of angels and is actually just a stylish but rather expensive PC.
Paris, heavenly but corrupted by original sin.
Anyone who is not able to take the risk of buying version .1 of any product should slow down. If you are in that much of a hurry, then at some point you will be burned. I have had only one Apple CPU arrive DOA in 20 years—out of over 50 units. Yes, it was pain. But I got over it. So will you.
C'mon Reg, can't you come up with a little more shocking news? clearly you still hold a grudge against apple from a few years back (don't exactly remember what, something about an invitation to an apple event you didn't get, search your archives)... love a cynical note on all companies that matter, but this is too silly.
If my computer (PC) came with a monitor defect or the like, just swap the part! If most likely is replacing an older system anyway, so I'd have a spare monitor to use while the new broken one is repaired/replaced. But, oh wait. It's an iMac, the all-in-one that requires "special" repair. Have a bad PSU? Mobo? Have to talk to Apple.
Ever have to replace a MacBook Pro LCD? Granted, Laptop LCDs are by no means a end-user "grandma can do it" repair, but the $800 USD that the Mac store quoted me made me a do-it-yourselfer in no time. $200 USD later, had a nice new LCD with the new 1yr manufacturer warranty. Wonder if a new LCD from Apple would come with anything more than their 90 warranty for the fix...
Yes, cynical I know. I'm not trashing fanbois, nor advocating PCs (since there are a LOT of bum PC parts too). Cost doesn't mean quality. Look at the cost of Vista development for proof of that.
Things break. It happens. It especially happens when new kit is launched (workers on the line still getting used to the process, packaging maybe not quite right, trying to meet order volumes and cutting corners on quality control).
What really matters is how Apple deal with the customers after the event. My experience of Apple is that they are much better at this than other manufacturers. Case in point: the Sony battery in my MacBook started losing charge rapidly after 2 years of use (150 cycles or so -- these things are rated for 300). Apple said 'no problem, here's a brand new battery' then and there. My wife's Sony Vaio, on the other hand, had what appeared to be the same problem. sony said, 'no problem send it in to us to look at'. What they meant was 'no problem, send it in to us at we'll sit on it for two weeks. You won't be able to contact us to find out what's going on because we won't answer your emails, and keep bouncing you from call centre to call centre. After two weeks we'll send back you laptop (which you'll have to pick up from some skanky depot in Croydon) and tell you that the fault is "inconclusive", and suggest you buy a new battery. You'll then complain about this a bit more, but get nowhere. You'll buy a new battery for close to a hundred quid and that'll fix it'.
That's the kind of thing you do to lose a customer. Not offer a full refund or to replace the DOA kit as soon as humanly possible.
The number of times I've had "beige box" hardware issues over the years.
Yes, *I* can fix the problem with time and effort, but 99% of PC users worldwide would get stuck and would require someone else to fix the problem.
I've seen new Dell laptops arrive faulty, Desktops a week old with failed motherboards - the list goes on.
This is only a story because it's Apple and they have a record of supplying quality hardware.
As we now know, there are *two* types of Apple computer products now - low end and high end.
The whole concept of Apple being a quality product has shifted - it shifted when they entered the "household consumer" market - that market gets lower priced, lower quality hardware.
An example of that would be the 21" imac and the 24" imac - the 21" has a lower quality monitor - it's "consumer grade" - many designers have been caught out by that!
The issues with the 27" seem to be with the monitor manufacturers and you can bet Jobs is furious that thier quality control doesn't live up to the Apple ethos.
"...the word ApplFAN. It implies a certain fruitiness, has a reference to an Application (App) and points to a certain part of the human body's lower posterior...FANny."
Don't know what you've been getting conjugal with, but in my experience the mons veneris and associated structures are found at the front of the female, not the rear.
I think this rabid insanity over faulty computers is, well, insane. I ordered my 2008 Macbook from Apple directly in the summer. When i ordered it, the nice American on the end of the phone said it would be up to two weeks because of stock shortage. Three days later i got the email to say it was dispatched and it turned up a further two days later. The screen was half dead and the HD making a horrible clicking noise. Called Apple staright away and the next day i had a UPS guy on my door to pick it up and three days later i had another one on my doorstep and a £50 iTunes voucher as an apology.
Cant say i'd ever leave them if they kept treating me like this haha
The one in your article needs to get a life! Seriously? One problem after countless years of good service and you're flipping your lid? You're gonna by dead of a heart-attack soon my friend, if that's how you react to a minor set back with one small part of your life!
What did they expect? Brand new product, just out of the gate, course it's going to have problems! I only use Apple kit at home, but I am sensible enough to know that any new product to market never works perfect first time, even if it's released by the hand of Lord Jobs himself!
1. NEVER use version x.0 of any software release!
2. NEVER buy inital batch of any hardware product!
3. NEVER believe anything BALLMER, JOBS, ELLISON or GATES say! ( They made money selling mostly vapourware, they can't help it, it's genetic! )
As many have already said it matters not what brand you buy all products have a failure rate. I recall the outrage when JD Power motoring satisfaction surveys first came to these shores I recall the outrage from the owners of certain brands when the results said things they didn't like.
The idea that with Apple or Mercedes (for example) you pay a premium for quality and reliability may well be complete nonesense, or it may not. However it takes a special kind of idiot to assume that something is better or more reliable just because it is more expensive.
I thought the modern consumer had become much more savvy than that. Or at least I did until I started reading forum discussions on the Canon G11 camera.
For I have a fully functional Hackintosh and it TURNS ON JUST FINE. Everything works great (even the genuine Apple wireless Keyboard) and it is actually faster on benchmarks than the MacPro it thinks it is. Its was built using a cheap AMD processor sitting in a totally bog-standard Gigabyte mobo.
The Hundred quid 27" monitor works beautifully too.
Game's up Apple.
Why do you assume that it's a high quality product? You pay over the odds for a niche system which has a pretty good OS, good after-sales service, and fancy shiny parts. It's well-known that the actual hardware inside Macs tends to be of an average or poorer quality to increase the profit margins. As has been said time and time again, if you wanted a high-quality system, you could get a far better system for the money you pay. This is not what you pay for when you buy a Mac (and I'm not going to knock you for buying one), and you seem to have got your ideas a bit muddled.
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"And, in the end, Apple CONTINUES to have the best customer satisfaction and reliability ratings of any computer vendor."
Like the time they took eleven months to replace my iBook? Ignored all emails, calls and legal threats? Then left a note on the replacement iBook saying "This guy is an asshole"?
Yeah. Really fine customer satisfaction, bud. Get a life. Not an iLife.
...because they are more visible. Everyone has problems like this, I've seen entire orders of Dells arrive with cracked, broken bits of trim on the cases in pristine packing boxes. It's rare, but it happens, and Apple get talked about so much (I mean, come on, they make computers to a slightly different set of rules to everyone else, how much more controversial can you get?</sarcasm>) that when someone like this happens it gets blown into way bigger proportion than when it happens to anyone else. Like when that huge batch of fake capacitors got out into the market, many computer manufacturers got hit by swelling, bursting capacitors, but most people only heard about it because people kicked up a stink about (yup, you guessed it) failing iMacs. People need to get off Apple's back and start getting lives instead.
Hmm from a company that sells an external USB drive $750 - Coz it's an Apple; compared to a bog stock 1TB drive, in an external case with cables and power supply for ~$150.....
Hey Apple Fan Bois - Tell me, are you all just STUPID is is the management of Apply just GREEDY and likes to sell stuff to dumb shits?
It's really not news to anyone with their eyes open, to be honest; contrary to the hype, Apple kit is nothing special and often sub-par but with a very distinctive styling (which I have never liked and therefore won't buy). Apple are taking this level of flak because Apple customers are often either naïve or zealous brand followers and tend to believe their own propaganda on behalf of Apple, about everything being better and higher quality, backed by excellent customer service, with better software, etc, etc.
In fairness to Apple, every company drops the ball now and then and the numbers are not huge but it's worth remembering that they built their entire business on the back of the ideas that their zealots spout and the claim that Apple kit ‘just works’, so when it doesn't...