"for travel to Europe"
We're already in Europe. Even though the Daily Mail doesn't like it.
Lucky Mancunians will finally be able to get their hands on the gov's shiny ID cards as of two weeks today. They can even make appointments before that date to register for the card, the government has announced. And what will they do when they've gotten one of the most eagerly awaited government sponsored bits of plastic …
Do you have a voluntary UK ID card? (yes / no):
If the applicant answers "yes" then the application should be rejected immediately. They have no regard for their own security or privacy, so cannot be trusted with yours. They are also quite likely to be of below average intelligence as they fell for the Government's ID card bullsh*t.
Big Brother. He's useful for filtering out job applications from *really* stupid people.
"Unless, that is, the government goes ahead and makes it illegal to buy cheese without first producing a card."
I think we all know the answer to that one. Of course they will. Just as it will become mandatory to have one; or without one become impossible to open a bank account or apply for a credit card, or to book and get on a flight, or to take out a mobile phone / utilities contract or buy alcohol from a supermarket or <insert anything here that currently involves doing anything>.
My only question would be... how is the "simple and secure" 15 minute enrolment process validating that the applicant is actually who they say they are?
And how many of those 8000 establishments have the biometric reading devices that would be necessary to make this card any different from any other form of photo card?
Any chance of a biometric ID card being at all useful is lost if those that are using it to verify someones ID don't have the ability to verify that the biometric on the card match those of the person presenting it, and that the card matches the details registered in the database.
Maybe we need a chocolate fireguard icon?
The Cheese Hamlet is a nice little deli. It sells bread, olives, spreads, coffee, and yes, cheese. The alcohol tends to be wine as in 'cheese and wine'. Ergo, you don't see many scallies in there for Bacardi Breezer and cases of Carling. The fact that one of the civil servants went in there says it all, really.
I might have to educate them about this farce next time I go in...
"Any chance of a biometric ID card being at all useful is lost if those that are using it to verify someones ID don't have the ability to verify that the biometric on the card match those of the person presenting it, and that the card matches the details registered in the database"
If you are going to confirm the data on the card matches the database what is the point having data on the card why not just used data from the database? Just demonstrates how pointless the card is serving as no more than a key for the database which could just as well be a number scribbled on a bit of paper.
The card provides no security, it just facilitates surveillance of those carrying genuine cards and makes day to day life a pain in the arse when you are required to provide it for dozens of insecure identity checks.
The police and government are already admitting that once they've got these rolled out they will be tracking and recording everybody who ever visits a nightclub. Fits in neatly with them already demanding prior records of all performers weeks in advance.
Presumably we will also have to book weeks in advance to visit a nightclub, so Plod can check in case we're likely to cause trouble there.
Hillier let the cat out of the bag on today's R4 Toady program. By admitting the card would be checked against the databases in very few situations (such as border control), she has effectively created a market in fake ID cards, worth at least 1 million pounds, which the nation's yoof will flock to for their liquor. Cheers, Meg. Happy Xmas. Mind you don't swallow that foot, but if you do, wash it down with some Kool Aid.
With the possibility of a change in Government next year and if the new Government stands by the policy to scrap the ID Card as a total waste of money, then this is definitely low on my shopping list.
Only the stupid would go ahead and pay for an item which would have no value now and even less in a few months time.
The average Joe who already has a driving licence, passport and all the bank accounts I need?
oh yeah, that's right, the CONVENIENCE of having all my data in one place. That is to say, convenient for every government agency who wants to snoop on me at a moments notice. And it's also terribly convenient for the hair brained civil servants who will be carrying unencrypted copies of the database home on flash drives and CDs to do god knows what with.
I think I'll pass.
> We're not sure how an ID card could be used as a public convenience
> crowd control device. Still, we thought the rest of you could
> suggest what exactly what you'd do with it.
1) Roll it into a cone so you can piss into empty bottles without too much spillage
2) Use it to pop the lock on the staff toilet /other seldom used room
3) Sharpen an edge and go for the jugulars of everyone in the queue ahead of you.
What do I win?
So very few places will be able to read to bio details from the card, so it's no better than a simple plastic card with your photo, and name and address on it then?
Fantastic! Where's my plastic card printer? I'm sure there are plenty of 13 and 14 year olds I can fleece for a £15 a go for a fake ID card, so they can more easily get the booze and fags they normally have to send the eldest looking kid into the shop for!
...was very straight with us on yesterday's R4 Today: the biometrics will at present only be used to issue you with a replacement card if you lose it. Unfortunately the BBC failed to pick up on how the enrolment process can verify your ID in a few minutes - so back to something said a while ago: the ID that will be registered becomes your 'official ID', despite any other name, etc, that other organisations have for you.
Sorry to strike a slightly pessimistic note here, but I was reading the other week an online article about the Lisbon Treaty that contained, I think, some rather unwelcome news about the future adoption of ID cards in the European Superstate. According to the article, there are two sub-clauses in the Lisbon Treaty that allows Brussels to impose ID cards on member states, whether they desire them or not. I'm sure there are many people out there, myself included, who are hoping that an incoming Conservative government will torpedo the ID card scheme and send it plummeting to the depths of the ocean floor. Although I'm sure they will have the judicial freedom to do so under existing British law, how long will it before the EU superstate, under the auspices of the Lisbon Treaty, play their trump card and simply demand that the UK issues ID cards in accordance with the said act?
Perhaps this is why Nu Labour is continuing to roll-out it's ID card scheme right up until the bitter end, knowing that if Cameron reverses their policy, the EU will take up the cudgel on their behalf and simply impose it from on high. It would certainly be a major challenge to a future Conservative administration, whose hope is to repatriate as much power as possible back to the UK from Brussels.
Here's a quick summary of Government reasons ID cards are required.
1) They will save us from terrorists
2) They will save us from illegal immigrants
3) They will save us from criminals
4) They will save us from benefit cheats (not sure if that includes bent MPs?)
Now all those are clearly rubbish so they've started the process of scraping the bottom of the barrel. Now ID cards are great because ...
5) They will help you buy cheese
6) They will help you not lose your passport at a nightclub because ID cards are obviously impossible to lose.
7) They will help you do loads of stuff you can already do but ... errr hang on there must be something else. Quick set up another focus group ...
I hate to say this, but this is one area where we really need to take a leaf out of the French book of tactics*.
When Europe issues its ultimatum, you just tell 'em to shove it up their arse. Then, when they issue a fine for non-compliance, you don't pay it and tell 'em to shove that up their arse too.
As the EU has no further options bar expulsion (which for the federalists driving this agenda has "Pyrrhic victory" writ large upon it - especially so when the country in the firing line is a net contributor to the EU's coffers), the issue that's the sticking point is just allowed to quietly die.
*Many reckon this one shouldn't be in there as it doesn't involve either giving up or working for the other side.
Surely carrying a number on a piece of paper is a bit tiresome and likely to be lost ? Surely there must be a better way . . . how about, off the top of my head, we tattoo the number on people, in an easily accessible place ?
I'm sure someone else thought of that at one time . . .
@ Captain Mainwaring
Yes, the Lisbon Treaty requires ID cards. It doesn't require a huge database though, nor does it require for fingerprints on the card.
In fact, the current UK driving licence, with little or no alterations, would cover the Lisbon Treaty.
No - that's not a spilling mishtake - even in the rarefied heights of high legalese the Treaty document is drivel of a cosmic order :
I commend to you:
Try a search for "identity" and try and figure how that works within the framework of the document - yeah - right Article 17........
These feckers are going to use this as a stick to beat you all into line and pay up.
This is not good guys n gals - the Russians have been warning us about the danger of the EU for a while and they have direct experience of a totalitarian bureaucracy and know what they're talking about.
Go on read it - if you can - I suspect that even the f**kwits that drafted it can't explain it.
I'm waiting for the first ID cards to show up on Ebay - I mean are they actually a legal document now - like a passport ? Answers on a postcard.
And yes - I'm anonymouse
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