IT grad sues school over failed job hunt A US college graduate is suing her alma mater because she has been unable to find a job. Trina Thompson, 27, graduated in April from Monroe College in the Bronx, New York with a bachelor's degree in IT. That lofty educational achievement hasn't yet helped her land a job, and so she's suing the college for reimbursement of her …
Bachelor degrees are dime-a-dozen these days (I have 2). It took hands-on training at a trade college to get me a job (ironically at a University IT department who prefers to hire trade-school graduates as they actually have some relevant skills for the job-at-hand - we are infrastructure, not an IT research unit, which is where you would expect to find most engineers in any modern organisation).
If you want to design IT you get an engineer. If you want it installed and managed, that's technician's work. And most engineers turn down technician jobs as beneath their skillset (and expected pay grades). But there are a few orders of magnitude more tech jobs than engineering ones in IT these days.
Perhaps non of her prospective employers actually believe there is a college in the Bronx and thus assume it's all one of these online degree scams. Plus suing and getting in all the press probably isn't going to help when said employer Googles her.
<-- icon aimed squarely at her.
Some translations...
"for the stress I have been going through looking for a full-time job on my own," = "I expected to be given a job on a plate."
"They have not tried hard enough to help me." = "I ignored their advice."
"She put all her faith in them, and so did I." = "I am a pushy mother with a perfect daughter"
"The lawsuit is completely without merit." = "You will be laughed out of court."
"this case does not deserve further consideration." = FOAD
AC as they seem to have a legal scattergun approach.
...but why let a supersized sense of entitlement get in the way of burning sparse money reserves? Yeah, you could but some books and get into that lifelong learning business instead. Nah.
Reminds me of that guy at my place who was just good enough to generate garishly colored Excel pie charts complaining about his hard time getting a job and his upcoming re-liberation into the labour marketplace. He had the brilliant idea that State should take it on itself to guarantee a job for every dude with an "engineering degree". Why, sure.
Not sure if this is a private college or not and I can't be arsed to look it up right now, but assuming it is, probably part of her problem is that the Admissions People *COUGHS* SALES DROIDS *COUGHS*. They are usually blowing sunshine and flowers at any new people coming in, over promising their ability to deliver on A) A decent USEABLE education using Relevant Equipment in good working order (Not the IT Department's fault, the blame lies in greedy upper management-types who want a better paycheck to pad their back wallet than caring about the quality of education when 'good enough' will do.) and B) Promises of BIG MONEY when you graduate from their college. I can't tell you how many people I've gotten coming from these places that refuse to do basic tech work because they feel it is below them. Umm, Hello? Anyone home? This is actual Techwork. I'm not asking you to scrub the toilet with a toothbrush here. Maybe just replace a motherboard or hard drive here or there! Or maybe they just don't know how because they vegetated all the way through school and gradutated at the end....
That is probably what happened here, and with those unkeepable promises, she's rightfully upset, but I don't believe that she should be given her tuition back for a few reasons. First off, she attended classes, right? They have to pay their teachers and facilities somehow. 2) were the classes themselves sub-par? Did they prevent her from attending for some unspeakable reason? And many schools give an Audit seat to students if they want to sit back through a class they have taken and refresh themselves on it if they feel they didn't get enough of it the first time. It also seems that too many places are interested only in helping those *about* to graduate, not those who have already done so. Better to keep face with those actively at and about the school than those who are not.
Bottom line? Don't give her anything back but maybe take a veeeeeeeeery close look at the promises being made by their sales drones and find out which ones aren't being ethical about things.
I'll get my coat.
When I came out of college, I had nothing handed to me. I could have did with this idiot did, I could have did what most Americans do, sue the bastards. Instead, I decided to become a productive member of society by starting my own business. I have better hours, I am happier, and my business is doing great even though it took years to become as good as it is.
It isn't your God given right to make a lot of money. You have to do something about it.
A university education isn't even worth the paper the degree is written on, and if cases like this highlight the real low value of Universities then more power to her.
If she gets her cash back she is already ahead of the game. And her time was taken up by this nonsense, so a few thousand on top seems completely reasonable.
At no point in my 12 year IT history has my GPA ever even been mentioned and if someone did ask I'd tell them to get F&*(ed. A degree is a degree is a degree, They're all crap anyway.
Almost every new graduate I've ever hired has been totally worthless in a business setting, it takes months to even get the crawling.
College today is pants.
Besides a B- isn't that bad, actually it's a bit above average for community colleges.
At the risk of sounding age-ist, I am sad to day that this is so typical of my Generation Y colleagues. The prevailing attitude seems to be:
1) I have a god given right to be employed
2) Said employment has to be incredibly stimulating and cool
3) I can quit any time I want, and expect to find another job within a few weeks
4) I have no need to show loyalty, hard work or reasonableness as my employer will probably screw me over anyway
Having never lived through economic tough times before, young people have not really been exposed to the harsh reality of the real world. If anything positive can come out of the recent crisis, perhaps it is the a few home truths will be laid bare.
While she's probably going overboard, I can understand her point to an extent.
Manny colleges etc go on recruiting drives and tell prospective students that all their grads get employment and it's a guaranteed job.
Student graduates but doesn't get job. Perhaps the college has oversold and are not living up to their promises.
I know this is a generalisation (and I'm going to sound like an old fart), but GenY-ers give me the pits. As an IT Contractor, I have had contacts with many a placement agency and most of them report the same attitude: "I have a degree, give me a high-paying glamorous job where I don't have to do anything". <sigh>
The question on the table should be: did the Uni/College/Whatever provide a proper level of education? Not, you'll notice, what the girl's grades where - there are idiots in every class - but whether the *classes* were up to par. If so (and I suspect that they were satisfactory), then she can whistle for her money - from the mother's quote, she sounds like a kid who is likely to blame everyone but herself for her short-comings. (and "they did not help me enough"? Since when are colleges in the Job Placement industry anyway?)
Me, I follow the 100-20-1 rule for graduates: 100 applications, 20 interviews, 1 job. Luckily, I've never had to go beyond 20-5-1 yet. ^_^
I know, the young lady might have been a touch naive. However, I would also not be surprised to find that the "school" (read: educational business) had been represented by _salespeople_ who made all kinds of promises.
This type of situation happened to me: a salesdork from a very well-known IT skills training organisation flatly _guaranteed_ me a job in exchange for signing away a few bucks on a course.
Cash changed hands, goods were consumed. But what was the basis of the sale itself: a forthcoming job offer, or an education? I suspect it was that ambiguity that lies at the heart of the case.
Note: check out the Monroe website: it's strongly oriented towards the "employment" line. Here's just a smattering of words from their "about" page: "successful future", "career-oriented", "real-world experience", "lead students to employment" -- and that's just from the opening paragraph.
My university promised me help finding a job too, but after I graduated (read: stopped paying tuition) they didn't exactly offer any. That didn't stop me from finding one, even though I graduated in a time and place where unemployment was even higher than today. I just had to put in a bit effort, all while still working in the camera shop that paid for my ramen noodles and beer through uni, and then move to a different state to actually take this job.
I can mention that where I am now there's actually a shortage of many IT-related professionals, but of course I'm far away from where this girlie is currently living.
And about today's grads; my previous company employed a few. They spent most their working day telling the rest of us that they knew they were better than others, which was quite amusing since they did nothing to prove it.
And they all thought they were grossly underpaid even though they made pretty good wages compared to what the newly educated had to accept back in my days...
Yeah, yeah, I know I'm over 40, but at least when I was young we didn't think ourselves so darned special just because we were born, and we didn't expect a starring role in our first job. Today's youngsters need to realize the Earth would continue rotating without them, and experience and skill still counts for something.
And judges can be quite mean when dismissing ridiculous lawsuits.
I found my university education (mostly) quite useful out in the real world. Sure, one should expect to need to learn more afterwards (nothing wrong with graduate/trainee roles) but it's nice to have a leg up.
So I'm wondering where all this degree hate is coming from? Is there something wrong with the learning institutions of the US of A? Or are you all grizzled old vets for whom academic qualifications mean nothing compared to decades upon decades of experience in certain fields?
At any rate, litigation for unemployment is daft. Unless one went to one of those dodgy IT "schools" who like to guarantee a job. But methinks those "organisations" are smart enough to pull their head in when the economy is in a state like this.
I graduated from college with an MIS degree in 1997, a BOOMING IT industry and I had been programming since 3rd grade. It took me 3 months of ground pounding to find the shittiest job for not a lot of pay. I worked it like the cotton fields for almost 2 years, then suddenly, things got a whole lot better.
Having said that, now a days, I wouldn't want to enter this job market with zero experience.
Ah, Bingo, finally someone said that.
Education is presently oriented toward "employment". I hate to be blunt, but when it fails in this regard the recipient should be entitled to some redress.
Yeah, I know that the real target of University education does not sound sellable. My dad (who taught in Unis for most of his working life) had a saying: "The university diploma is not a document which certifies that you have learned chemistry, or math or anything for that matter. Never was, never will be. It is a document which certifies your _GENERAL ABILITY_ to learn. It shows that you are capable of learning material to a specific level of difficulty and using it to get a job done"
This message unfortunately is not something which a sales dork (which is what Uni admission departments are nowdays) can convert into applicants and from there to cash flow. So they lie about employment orientation and employability.
To make the matter worse, the actual study material after that is modified to make the kids employable as per the demands of the current day. This makes them instantly unemployable tomorrow, because instead of being trained to learn and self-learn they are trained to a specific employability. There is an extremely good description on this in Azimov's "Profession" and frankly it should be made a mandatory first year reading material in all engineering schools.
While I have no sympathy for the lady itself (sorry sub-3 point average is a FAIL), someone needs to take Universities to the task and make them stop misselling education. That, and actually educating kids instead of satisfying the HR buzzword bingo grep fetish.
Yes you may have a good job now; yes you may have a good paycheque, but how long did it take you guys to reach this stage without a degree - degrees speed up the time it takes to get a meaningful and rewarding job - if you have two applicants, one with a degree, one without - you're going to pick the guy with the degree for the obvious reason that he's better educated (assuming they have the same experience).
With regards to the story, what a bunch of thunderc*nts - her, and her mother - you don't get jobs handed to you on a plate - you have to go out, work hard, send your CV off to dozens of companies, and then maybe, JUST FUCKING MAYBE, you get offered a job - clearly these two are just adding to the American steriotype of "I'm a Yank, therefore I'm the best - I want it NOW and if I don't get it, I'm going to SUE!".
(N.B. Note the use of "steriotype" - I'm not saying all of you over the pond are like that - just most of you... :D )
Virtually word for word what I was going to say. In my first job I was asked if I knew FORTRAN, I didn't so the boss said, "There's a library on the first floor, go get a book and learn it". But then I had a real Physics and Electronics degree which shows an ability to analyze, solve and think rather than an IT degree which basically means you can add up in binary.
As for the 100+ applications before getting a job offer, before leaving university I had five offers but I reckon this was because I only applied for five jobs. Ever since my ratio has been at least 1-1-1 and in some cases 0-0-1, think headhunting and word of mouth.
This girl's story shows that if, education wise, you do go for the easy option than at least get a good grade.
Everyone is allowed to be uneducated and naive at the start of a degree. At the end you should have realised that the claims of walking into a job were sales bullshit. Only the blind could ignore the fact that their friends in who left before them have not walked straight into jobs.
Perhaps she's one of those people who haven't figured out yet that effort and reward are not related, and that 'results and reward' is closer to the mark.
Still, nowadays a degree only gets your foot on the ladder. Anyone with less experience than that is really fucked.
Deliver sub-par results (her grades), then sue.
Its the same with large IT corporations, especially here in the UK. I wont mention any company names but IT is generally done by Indians now and the only IT jobs for westerners is making unfair contracts for clients then suing them to get the money! (NHS IT project get out payment to Fujitsu was nearly 900 million - yes it was a government project so no doubt a nightmare client, but its not like they didn't know that when they tendered!!!!).
She would definitely have a much better moral high ground position if her grades were better though..
She is obviously crap..
I left school at 16, did an MCSE (in NT4) then used that to go and find a job, paid for 3 Cisco Certs, and now I'm a Senior Network Engineer, I'm 27 too...
It's not all about peices of paper from some crappy collage... it's about your performance.. if you are good enough that will shine through, if you are an R-Tard like this bint, then you are doomed for a life of monotany and mediocracy...
Epic Fail love.. Trully Epic.. Good luck in finding a job anywhere now!...
At 27, she's old enough to have seen cycles of ups-and-downs - when the internet bubble burst, she was 19, at the 9/11 attacks and market crash afterwards she was 21, and we're a full ten months into the current semiapocalyptic disaster.
Post-Internet-bubble, it took three years for the IT job market to recover. In 2001, 80 pages of a certain german 220-page IT magazine had job ads - a year later, it was two (!) out of 180 pages (and no, that wasn't all due to every employer suddenly going online-only).
IT jobs have, between October'08 and about May'09, scarce as a real nugget in a stream full of fool's gold. That's two or three nuggets now, but the bonanza isn't in sight.
Has she lived with her head stuck fast in the sand for the last 18 months ?
Three months looking ? That's the time you spend looking during boom times - because that's what it takes to do due diligence to sift through ads, write down own plans & ideas, ponder the necessities of life and, not the least, write targeted, specific applications. A Winword template letter "I'm G3 (great greedy grad) and just what you need" will, at best, end up as a humorous note on some HR department's whiteboard.
If the college really was stupid enough to have their ads / contracts worded in such a way that they were, in the eyes of the law, a post-graduation employment guarantee, then I feel sorry for them. As far as the girl goes, hope her future sees her rotting away as Z-grade celebrity touring B-set talkshows ranting publicly about how unfair it is that not everyone has happiness piled over them effortlessly.
IT- Intelligence Tanked ...
If I am not mistaken, as it can happen at times. In the US the GPA is done on a 4.0 scale not a 3.0 so 2.7 is a pretty miserable rate. And according to a quick search on the Monroe College webstie which you have linked to it has GPA mentioned up to 3.75 so an A would be 4.0 and B- would at worse be around 3.25 if that low. I had trouble finding work after completing my Networking/Programming course and I got a 3.9 GPA.
Harsh times, mediocre GPA, and you expect to get a job, should have tried a lot harder in school.
One sure way of convincing a corporation NOT to hire you is to position yourself as a troublemaker and willing to sue at the slightest hint of dissatisfaction. This ignorant little squirt has just committed her own personal version of corporate suicide. Who in their right mind would ever hire someone who has already filed suit and never even had a job? Not me brother, I don't need that kind of attitude no matter how good an IT person she is. She may be a whiz-band IT type, but when it comes to understanding the world about her she's a dismal failure if this stunt is a valid indicator.
May as well become a teacher, they aren't listen to by anybody and they keep getting paid. I know....I wuz one for a time.
If you're going to be dumb; you'd better be tough.
Those with a sense of entitlement and desire not to do any work for as long as possible are likely to study for a degree. But that doesn't mean that everyone who has studied for a degree has a sense of entitlement and wants not to do any work for as long as possible. A implies B does not mean that B implies A. And that doesn't suddenly start being true just because you weaken yourself to correlations.
"if you have two applicants, one with a degree, one without - you're going to pick the guy with the degree for the obvious reason that he's better educated (assuming they have the same experience)."
And there, at the end, is the rub. One of the best guys I worked with was 21 when I first started working with him but instead of a degree he had left school at 16 and got a job on a helldesk, and worked his way up from there.
So, to re-write your question for you:
"if you have two applicants, one with 5 years experience, one without any - you're going to pick the guy with the experience for the obvious reason that you want someone to do the job"
Unless you are doing a job where a degree is essential, and by essential I mean in the medicine, vetinerian, civil/chemical engineering, teaching the subject type way, there is no way a degree will be able to offset the raw advantages of 3-4 years relevant work.
I used to hold degrees in high esteem, but have not done so for the last 20 years. I have interviewed over the years about 100+ electronics engineers. Some interviewed very well, but where absolutely useless at the job, having no knowledge on applying what they had learnt to a practical situation. Eventually I made a little test for them to do, nothing too hard, a few questions about ohms law, and a question regarding the application of a D.C. voltage to a capacitor via a resistor and a switch, and the question of what happens when I close the switch? 98% of them did not have a clue. For gods sake, a degree in electronics and they don't know about an RC time constant?, the exponential charge of a capacitor? In all those years I had two candidates that knew what happened and could draw a graph and might know the basic equations for. These two had worked in industry as technicians and had later gone onto get a degree.
One guy I employed thought all the jobs being asked of him where beneath him, and that he wanted to do "engineers" tasks and get an engineers salary. He spent all day long asking my senior engineer, how do you do this or that? Last I heard he was blowing up scopes by forgetting to take the earth off, whilst measuring between Live and neutral (not all companies can afford the right probes) . He even once said he'd do a task asked of him if he decided he wanted to do it. The little dear was informed that between the hours of 0800 to 1700, he'd do as he was asked (unless it breached H&S or otherwise), or they would be having a chat with HR. Degrees? pfft, Most are next to useless. They should all do apprenticeships first, get some real skills, even sweeping the floor or making the tea, then go for a degree to build upon it. Lets face it, there are a significant numbers of people who lecture in universities because they just can't cut it in the commercial world.
"I could have done what most Americans do, sue the bastards."
Uh, hold on. Most Americans don't do this; the ones who do this get reported. Most of us, like most people everywhere, are alright folks. Flawed, but alright, just like everywhere. However, it's just journalism; a successful plane landing isn't a headline. Which of the following is more likely to be a headline?
"Former Student Sues University for Lack of Employment"
"4,999 Other Students from Last Year's Class Get on with Their Lives"
Actually, if I have two applicants with the same experience, one with a degree and one without, I don't know which one would be given the job. First of all, depending upon the layout and presentation of their applications and resumes/CVs, one, neither or both may be short-listed for interview. Then, in the event that both get an interview, the one that interviews better and seems like the best candidate for the job will get it - whether they have a degree or not.
Of course, if would be nice to think that having the degree may improve your chances of making the short-list and, in some cases, it very well might. But anyone who doesn't take more into account than the simple presence or absence of a given qualification isn't being appropriately diligent in their hiring and selection process. (Well, unless the qualification in question is a pre-requisite for the job - e.g. neurologist required, must be a qualified medical practitioner!)
I agree with the poster who said the following, though for me it was closer to 50 interviews on 100 applications: "Me, I follow the 100-20-1 rule for graduates: 100 applications, 20 interviews, 1 job. "
That is what I had to go through in 2007 when I graduated and the economy was still pretty good. I also went to a top ten college in my discipline(went to Illinois for cs) and had a higher GPA than her. Not exactly a shock for someone from a no-name school(don't those usually just hand out 3.5 GPAs just for paying your tuition?) and a bad GPA to not find work in a bad economy. I know people who graduated with a masters degree and a GPA full point higher than this girl and still can't find work right now.
Only in the good ol' USA can you sue anybody for anything and have more 'colleges' per square mile than any other country in the world. Those of you who have kids that are planning on attending college need to be selective and not choose one merely on tuition. Scan the classifieds for practically any field and note how many require a degree from an "Accredited University". A good rule of thumb is if it advertises on TV or radio it's not someplace to get a degree from.
I graduated from a university (not a college) in '92 with a BS in Comp Sci and 3.7/4.0. My first job out of school was delivering airline tickets for a travel agency because all the IT related jobs wanted experience. My big break came when the administrative assistant quit and no one else knew how to operate a PC. I already new Wordperfect and Lotus so I was promoted from delivery to secretary even though my typing speed was 30 WPM. It was that experience that enabled me to get my first IT related job as first level help desk in an IT department for a different company.
17 years and countless changes in so-called Fortune 100 employers later not once has my degree or GPA been mentioned in an interview. My CV and experience have been the instruments towards my advancement and success.
Is higher education a waste of time? Not necessarily. It certainly is not essential in the IT field although I recommend it because I feel it is a good life experience. (winks at AngrySup)
College is definitely not for everyone but what you make out of that education and for that matter your life is up to you and the choices you make. Countless individuals have made vast fortunes with little or no higher education.
Bill Gates cuz he dropped out his first year and look where he is today.
4) I have no need to show loyalty, hard work or reasonableness as my employer will probably screw me over anyway.
This didn't use to be the case, but over my 40+ years of work experience it has become the absolute case in recent years. Most companies have NO loyalty to their employees any more and as a result have lost the loyalty of their empoyees.
...sound of head hitting table.
>graduated from a university (not a college) in '92 with a BS in Comp Sci and 3.7/4.0.
...
>I already new Wordperfect and Lotus so I was promoted from delivery to secretary even
Good god, is that what they teach on computer science courses, it's even worse than I'd imagined.
>Bill Gates cuz he dropped out his first year and look where he is today.
He was also born into a rich family with a mother who was friendly with at least on of the board memebrs of IBM, which no doubt helped him get his foot in just a teeny weeny bit.
She'll simply never get a job in IT now she's been stupid enough to do this. I graduated towards the back end of a smaller recession in the 90s and it took me the best part of a year to get full time employment (and plenty of working for free, doing anything to get experience). It never once occurred to me that the Uni I went to might be at fault.
This post has been deleted by its author
I work tech support at a large research lab (15 year college drop out; kept changing major without graduating). At this place, new hires with PhD's first go through an internship. Sure, they're doing research and getting their names on papers but they're also the ones tasked with calling in to tech support when the printer's offline or the boss's Blackberry isn't sync'ing. Summer is always fun as that's when new hires come on board and get a quick lesson in priority. There's always a few who call in an issue and then call back within 10-20 minutes wanting to know whey they're still waiting. Basically, unless you meet with the U.S. congress and such, you get your issue handled in order it came in.
It all comes down to what the college promised her. If they advertised a guaranteed job in exchange for the time and monetary investment then they damn well better deliver. However I can't really believe any college would legitimately promise something like that. $70,000 is a lot of money. If I had sunk that kind of cash into an education under the promise of a top flight job I would be pretty pissed if they didn't come through for me.
A lot of you have harped on her actions, claiming times are tough. But I say that her willingness to sue shows she has the spirit to stand of and fight for what she needs rather than bending over and taking it up the ass like most people do. There are a lot of ways to get tough, getting a lawyer and suing is a perfectly legitimate method. It'll be for the court to decide just how legitimate her claim is.
It takes months to find decent C++ programmer in junior position in New York. Apparently there are very few (if any) graduates with good understanding of the three : exceptions, iterators and multithreading. And it is fault of academia.
Students who attend classes do not yet know what is important to learn, they must trust university to put good programme together. They systematically fail to do so, instead wasting students' time on "fashionable" stuff which actually does not give a job.
You really should consider at the minimum completing elementary school before posting in public forums with such appalling use of spelling and grammar. Small wonder you posted anonymously.
>>I already new Wordperfect and Lotus so I was promoted from delivery to secretary even
>Good god, is that what they teach on computer science courses, it's even worse than I'd >imagined.
Is it? You tell me. Oh wait, you can't. I can't speak for all who have taken computer science courses but I learned WP and Lotus on my own not at my alma mater. I never understood why some people needed a course to learn a word processor or spreadsheet.
>>Bill Gates cuz he dropped out his first year and look where he is today.
>He was also born into a rich family with a mother who was friendly with at least on of the board memebrs of IBM, which no doubt helped him get his foot in just a teeny weeny bit.
I have no doubt that his rich family had connections to get him into Harvard but his reputation was what got the attention of IBM after Microsoft released several versions of BASIC for other platforms (PDP, Apple, Commodore, etc.). He was also a gambler known for his love of poker along with his ability to sell anybody anything. Then there's the world famous story of Q-DOS/MS-DOS.
I agree with Oliver Jones. A good command of the english language and people skills are what separate those who earn bonuses from those who don't. It also seems to separate those who practice regular hygiene from those who don't. Good God some of the techies that I've met over the years!
As somebody who started his ICT degree in 2002 I can certainly testify to their usefulness, mine served in place of a certification of my typing speed for a data entry job. Maybe after four years without getting an IT job I should be filling a lawsuit as well, nowt to do with my foolish insistance on staying local meaning I ended up with something barely worth the paper it's printed on, no it's their fault.
Hell out of my graduating class only one of us went on to an IT job and he dropped out and technically ended up with nothing to get it, which one of us looks more attractive on paper now though?
Unfortunately your missive is on the whole true, however you have to ask yourself, would you like to work for a company that limits the prospects of its employees based on the lack of a certificate and ignores experience at all costs? There may be a valid argument for a degree to be used to decide the entry level of an employee but after that it is rather short sighted to reject the performance of an employee.
What worth do you put on a piece of paper? For example I live in a country that is in love with certification and there is rarely a job that doesn't require one piece of paper or another. I have worked alongside people who are constantly on a course to gain the latest must have certificate yet have insufficient time to apply any (if any) knowledge gained before moving onto another course. They are highly employable but completely useless.
>To many employers, seeing bad English on paper or in e-mail is like having 100 points knocked off your IQ.
This may be the case in the real world but I suspect there are a high number of people with dyslexia who would find that statement distasteful.
"Actually I think you'll find that this is one case where the septics spell it the same way as us: "stereotype".......
Have an icon."
It's a shame there isn't a picture of John Edward as an icon, because you'd win the award for biggest douche in the universe - STOP BEING AN INTERNET PEDANT - it just proves you have few mates, and that you're a prick.
Bye bye...
Shite, I used to cycle from Warwick to Coventry to 'endure' 3 hours of study. Every evening. After 8h work. Whatever the weather.
FFS, for 5 fuc*king years! Daily! And she's bitching? I got a City and Guilds Full Tech. Cert - not even a degree..
I'd love to meet her. Hope she's a good sha*g! (Unfortunately, I'm not any more. My ass hurts too much - it's the piles, y'know.)
I think our esteemed colleagues are confusing the word 'degree' with 'asshole'. You get assholes in all walks of life, even dare I say, 'engineers' (quotes, because plugging socket A into port B hardly makes people an engineer but alot seem to think this is so;-).
Degree's give people experience of more than just stale lectures. They provide valid experience of independence and self sufficiency. Not having your hand held on an apprenticeship about how to do everything by someone at the point in their life when they really don't care about anything but home time. I've been on both sides and as soon as you talk about qualifications outside of City and Guilds you got a look of scorn...
Oh and at the idiot who drops applications with typing errors i can't wait for your firm to be slapped with a court appearance citing the DDA (disability discrimination act, thought i'd spell it out as you've clearly never heard of it, or doing a good job).
Flame Friday :)
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