Government claims on immigration ignore IT industry

The UK's points based immigration system is ignoring the increase in intra-company transfers and failing to recognise people with real skills and business experience who lack paper qualifications, according to a Home Affairs Committee report. The government has released proposals on the UK's application system for citizenship …

[Mike Bell]

Mike Bell

That test is just plain bonkers and - if true - can only be designed with the intention of keeping people out of the country.

my score was 38% and I'm about as British as you can get.

[Citizen Kaned]

hmmm

am i the only one to think that we should close the borders with all this unemployment going on? surely it makes sense to train our unemployed rather than bringing in new people?

[Sean Key]

ePetition to abolish Intra Company Transfer Visas

There is a petition on the 10 Downing St website to demand the abolition of Intra Company Transfer Visas here:

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Abolish-ICTs/

Please have a read and sign up if you agree. According to Computer Weekly reporting figures obtained by the Professional Contractors Group, something like 28,000 workers were brought into the UK by firms using ICT visas last year.

http://www.computerweekly.com/Articles/2009/08/03/237149/big-business-abusing-migrant-worker-law.htm

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL

You have failed the practice citizenship test.

Questions answered correctly: 9 out of 24 (38%)

Time taken: 03 minutes 36 seconds

[H2Nick]

I just failed...

Fancy me not being citizeny enough to know which year over 100 years ago women got the right to vote... & a load of other pretty irrelevent fails

[Anonymous Coward]

lol

sent the test to 4 people, highest result was 11.

[Sean Key]

@ Mike Bell

I had to help my wife study for that test, and I completely agree with you.

[Anonymous Coward]

Shoot the designer

Well, whoever designed that test thingy should be drawing their P45 for failing to check it properly.

I ran the test in a smaller browser window. Everything seemed fine until I couldn't see some answers. It appears like the designer has eliminated the scroll bars so you believe that the screen is fully drawn .. it isn't.

I couldn't see any of the "D" questions, I thought there were only A B and C. it was only after failing the test and reviewing the answers that I found there were actually D options available.

Doh!

Is this a genuine design faux-par or some clever government method of keeping immigrants out? Not only that, but there aren't any contact details easily found to tell the twits that their design sucks d**k. Or perhaps the designer wanted it that way?

I wonder if that site actually meets dissabled standards?

[Anonymous Coward]

At Citizen...

...spoken like a true Daily Drivel reader...

"am i the only one to think that we should close the borders with all this unemployment going on? "

Ironic, we want the NHS to provide top notch care, but don't want to pay an extra £50 a month in taxes

We want 24/7 banking, but don't want to pay for it.

we want 24/7 IT support for our broadband, but don't want to pay premium rate calls

We want our £3 tesco jeans

We want our 2 for £5 chickens,

Well hears the f****king shock, in order to get those, you have to pay crap wages and as we have seen before (remember 10's of thousands of people immigrated to the UK from the Carribean in the 60's), is the simple fact some people in this country are just lazy dole scrounging scumbags. I know, I used to live next door to the type.

I rather we have 1 hardworking foreigner than 1 lazy scrounger...

Mmmm.. I think I stand for MP. For every worker we import, we'll send back a scrounger.

[davefb]

i've gone all daily mail

why are questions about exact rules on benefits relevant to uk citizenship. you couldn't make it up.

[Richard 68]

I've always believed I was British, ever since birth...

...but since I failed the citizenship test I suppose I must be missing something.

I suppose that would explain a lot.....

Jim Hacker's comment here applies: Round objects!

Mine's the one with a new nationality in the pocket.

[Red Bren]

Oath of allegiance to whom?

Taking part in a legal, democratic political protest will lead to a black mark on your application, but "contributing to the democratic life of the country through trade union activities or canvassing for a political party" will get your application fast tracked! So some activities are more democratic than others! I can just imagine the new Oath of Allegiance ceremony:

"I solemnly pledge my life to the Labour Party, without question."

"Well done Comrade, I mean citizen. Here is your party membership card, sorry ID card. Don't leave home without it!"

[OffBeatMammal]

Good idea, bad execution

As a Brit (who only scored 50% on this test, so maybe my Passport will be revoked) who'd gone through the citizenship hoops in another country (and currently living in a third so doing the visa dance as well) I think it's a good idea to have some baseline standardized testing in place. After all, Australia, the US and many others have had this for a while for folks who want to take the leap from Resident to Citizen.

Britain is an island with limited resources so having some sort of filter in place to ensure that it can remain a viable concern is important... and controlling who comes in is a part of that (I won't get started on how dumbing the country down and turning it into a police state probably isn't the other part of the equation - has anyone who votes watched "Idiocracy" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/)

Some of the questions I was asked on the practice test seem a little random (let's make sure these valuable new members of society know how to get benefits or free prescriptions before they join the ranks of the un-employed!) though I do think testing the knowledge of the EU as well to give context is important.

Hopefully this is just one step in a much larger process that really does take into account the migrants skills (including language and ability to assimilate the local culture rather than simply re-create what he's left behind) and resources .... but I also hope there is some streamlining of the process and some of the steps are pushed down to long term Visa and Residency applications (though maybe having to fill out the same forms, by hand, and produce the same original documents in person at a Consulate halfway round the world from where you're now living is an effort by the US Immigration folks to prove that you're sincere... and a good model for us to follow as it weeds out the people who can't afford expensive overseas trips!)

Mines the one with 2 passports in the pocket

[Anonymous Coward]

Me too

I failed too, but since the test is whether you have memorised the booklet or not, it is hardly surprising.

I think the government have missed a trick though. If the questions were along the lines of: "What is the penalty for taking a picture of a building from a public place (a) a 50 000 volt tasering from the police; (b) two 50 000 volt taserings from the police etc" then far fewer would try to come here.

[Anonymous Coward]

High Score!

58% in 2 minutes something.

Go me!

Highest score on the comments page so far!

Black helicopter because they're coming to take my passport away!

[Citizen Kaned]

hmmm

@ the coward... (funny how they always hide...)

im more than happy to pay more in taxes. i am actually on 4 days a week at the moment and still doing fine thank you. i am more worried about my friends who cannot even get shitty paid jobs and some people from my old place who have been laid off. when the IT sector is crumbling and there are less jobs why the hell should we get people in to do them... when there are plenty of skilled unemployed people already?!? not all doleys are as you call them scroungers.

@ "Ironic, we want the NHS to provide top notch care, but don't want to pay an extra £50 a month in taxes" - maybe if the cash wasnt being wasted on shit we might not have to... maybe if the nurses and doctors in the NHS DID SOMETHING we might do better. have you visited a hospital lately? did you see how 'hard' the nurses work? yes, indeed i see 4 or 5 of them chatting doing sweet FA whenever im there. i have seen doctors just wandering round for upto an HOUR while people sit in A&E. not to mention by aunty dieing from MRSA as the hospital was more filthy than any student/doley house ive ever been to. i also pay for private medical care. since the NHS seem to be full of useless incompetant idiots whenever i need anything more than a new inhaler.

@ "We want 24/7 banking, but don't want to pay for it." - do we? the fact my debit account has never given me interest says i am paying for it somewhere!

@ "we want 24/7 IT support for our broadband, but don't want to pay premium rate calls" - no we dont. i dont need it thanks

@ "We want our £3 tesco jeans" - like fuck we do! speak for yourself....

@ "We want our 2 for £5 chickens" - again - no i dont. i buy organic produce that is locally grown.

@ "Well hears the f****king shock, in order to get those, you have to pay crap wages and as we have seen before (remember 10's of thousands of people immigrated to the UK from the Carribean in the 60's), is the simple fact some people in this country are just lazy dole scrounging scumbags. I know, I used to live next door to the type." - wow, and you think im a daily heiler? so, you think that immigrants get less than min wage then? i know plenty of people that would be happy with min. wage. maybe if we werent taxed to fuck for everything in this country ~£6/hr wouldnt be such a shit wage!

@ "I rather we have 1 hardworking foreigner than 1 lazy scrounger..." i agree, why not get the scrounger a job rather than importing someone to do it for them. then we can eliminate the scrounger state and we will all be better off. filling jobs with foreigners when thousands of english people are on the dole makes fuck all sense. maybe a change of culture is needed to stop scroungers?

aside...

i just took that quiz. WTF?!? the most useless tripe ever, who thought of that? i got 50%! how am i supposed to know the muslim population %? the year women could divorce etc. pointless bollocks i think about 10% of the population might pass!

@ OffBeatMammal - i think newLab saw idiocracy and thought it was a documentory for them to emulate. that and 1984! it is right though, stupid people are breeding much faster than the rest of us. just go into tesco!

[Owen Milton]

Canada and others do much the same...

For the general "evaluation" of immigrants. If you have Y years of education you get X points, X points for knowing French, X points for knowing English... The theory being that educated people are the ones you want moving to your country and the rest can go on a waiting list. Unless I misremember Australia does the same thing, or at least they did years ago when I was considering moving there for a job.

Let's NOT go to the "close the borders" route please, I have yet to see a historical situation where that has worked out well in the long term (If you know of one or more, feel free to offer it up).

[Anonymous Coward]

No-one likes a smartarse....

You have failed the practice citizenship test.

Questions answered correctly: 15 out of 24 (63%)

I will now go back to my hut in Kazakhstan and run the finest call centre to steal all your eeeenglish jobs.....

[Ray0x6]

FAIL

On 46% I fail. Even a university exam only requires 40 to pass. Pffft. You can chuck me out now.

[Martin 6]

Canada's is easier

The canadian one is something like;

1, The role of the federal government is (a) to serve the people. (b) serve the country, (c) be nice to kittens and first nations people (d) all of the above.

Repeat question for The Provincial Government, the RCMP, the Army, Revenue Canada etc.

If you can complete it without laughing you're in.

But you do have to swear an oath to the Queen, presumably making Canadian immigrants loyaler subjects than the Daily Mail readers in the UK

[Mike 61]

Passed

'merkin, never been there, don't follow what goes on, but read a lot of the reg, and if I didn't know I just picked the answer that seemed most wrong.

You have passed the practice citizenship test.

Questions answered correctly: 22 out of 24 (92%)

Time taken: 02 minutes 27 seconds

Now if I had to take a test to get into my own country I would probably fail, can only name a couple of presidents, amendments, and states, and have no idea who won the world series. However I do know where to go to get medical marijuana ;)

[Nusato]

I'm an American (I think)

You have failed the practice citizenship test.

Questions answered correctly: 13 out of 24 (54%)

Time taken: 02 minutes 33 seconds

But I qualify to have been born in the UK based on everyone else's comments!

[Anonymous Coward]

@ Citizen Kaned

"@ the coward... (funny how they always hide...)"

And we're supposed to believe that Citizen Kaned is your real name?

Or is this more of that oh! so subtle! British wit?

[Anonymous Coward]

meh

people should be allowed to travel and live where they like and be employed in jobs they have the skills for. I hate being stuck in this dump of a country sadly all the countries I'd like to live in have far stricter rules then here.

Should be able to go where the work is or where you're interested in, it sucks being trapped somewhere you don't feel anything for and can't see a future for yourself other then another 40 years of the same old junk.

[Tom 35]

Citizens are at a disadvantage

They have not received a booklet of useless trivia to memorize, and would be confused by the fact that correct definition of a "quango" is not one of the choices on the test (but I expect one created the test).

[Anonymous Coward]

intra company transfers

My experience of them is that it means people with the relevant skills can be transferred to a project 'yesterday'. Sure we could train up local unemployed but that takes time & money which usually aren't available in a project's budget, plus there's no guarantee they're going to work out. Whereas you can get a guy from an Indian office (for example) who knows the system & has a proven track record at fairly short notice.

All the talk of training up the local unemployed is not facing reality. Sure some 'unskilled' jobs maybe, but IT/engineering? what would you train them in? To be useful they need to 'get a career' & gain experience to use skills and quickly learn new ones.

[Anonymous Coward]

in support of citizen kaned

Perhaps I'm biased because my employer rather likes to sack all their skilled workers in the EU whilst bringing in Offshore people on long term visas, but I'm with Citizen Kaned on this.

In case you have failed to notice we have official figures of close to three million unemployed. Anecdotal evidence from what I have seen in the real world would suggest that the real situation is far worse than that. Those of us with jobs are facing pay cuts, training cuts and massive increases in workload. Its a bloodbath out there. And this is not confined to the UK , its the same across the EU.

So yes I'd stop all economic immigration into the UK from outside the EU as of right now. Unfashionable view with some of you I know, but I think you'd find most of us proles think that way, as we are the ones suffering the job cuts and expensive housing.

UK employers have all the EU to draw upon to get skilled staff. That should be enough. If they cannot find enough skilled staff perhaps they could start putting their hands in their pockets for training and apprentiships again. When you hear employers claiming they cannot get skilled staff, they are actually saying they could get skilled staff but they don't want to pay the going rate. The only reason they'd like to bring in non EU staff is to maintain their bonuses. Wake up and smell the coffee and recognise when you are being manipulated by Big Business.