BNP DDoS 'mega-assault' not actually mega in the least A supposedly massive denial of service attack against the British National Party website has been exposed as a gross exaggeration. The assault, which began on Friday, was described by the party in an email appeal for funds as the "largest cyber attack in recorded history" and comparable only to a 2001 assault against Microsoft …
Clear Channel has a policy of carrying advertising "from all the legal political parties, without bias or favour, and regardless of the company’s own views, as long as the advertising is legal and clearly branded for the relevant party".
Should read
Clear Channel has a policy of carrying advertising "from all the legal political parties, without bias or favour, and regardless of the company’s own views, as long as the advertising is PAID FOR".
/the words that came into my mind when seeing that Monty Python image
How do we know this isn't just another publicity stunt, in that the DDoS attack was paid for by someone in the BNP just so they can cry "we're being attacked!" ?
I'm just disappointed it ISN'T the biggest DDoS in history.
600 Mbps is 75 MBps which amounts to 264 GB per hour. Given that many hosting providers will have an outgoing bandwidth cap of 100GB per month per server, I wouldn't call that level of traffic insignificant for a single website of an insignificant party. Agreed it doesn't amount to a massive DDoS attack, but are you sure the bloke got his figures right?
...to find out that the fascist scumbags actually paid for a small DDOS attack just so they could trumpet how hard done by they are.
Clear Channel aren't exactly nice people either; they provided a hell of a lot of funding for Dubya's election campaigns, so it's hardly surprising they happily deal with British nazis as well.
"We understand that the matter of whether the BNP's website breaks the hosting firm's terms and conditions is under review."
If that's the case, then the hosting firm will *surely* also decline to host a website for Labour, Conservative, SWP or any other party.
I think the BNP are a bunch of mindless thugs*, but how on earth did we get to the state where a legitimate political party can be denied service because people don't like their policies? Freedom of speech is an absolute - or how long until another party is added to the Forbidden Parties Register? (yes I know libel and "fire in a crowded theatre" and so on and so forth on limiting freedom of speech. That's clearly not the case here, so stop trying to muddy the issue).
* The fact that such a disclaimer is necessary shows how far the rot has gone.
Just as a small point...the key part of all this is that they want £5k to buy enough servers to get them out of the crap. £5k would probably be just about enough to buy 1 or 2 mid-range servers and get them put into the rack. If that would insulate them from this attack, then it's probably the *smallest* DDoS in history, not the largest.
Paris, rack...need I say more?
"In case you haven't checked their are millions of people voting BNP now and so you are attacking them too!"
Defending them I see.
According to Griffin and other BNP members, they do not want the Gurkhas to settle in the UK. They would pay them more pension and have them f-off back to Nepal.
So why do you hate the Gurkhas so much then?
The BNP has gotten into a lot of trouble for inciting racial hatred, which is quite rightly illegal.
They've tried to clean up their public image a bit recently, but nasty old racism is alive and well under the surface, especially with the rank-and-file of the party.
Not to mention that hosting services are privately owned businesses and can deny service to anyone they see fit (except, ironically, on the basis of race/gender/etc)...
Maybe it was the biggest cyber-attack in the BNP's petty little history? Woo, frightening, just like the party itself.
Austin, hosting companies routinely have terms that say they won't host you if you post a variety of unsavoury material, including hate-speech and racism. That's their choice - they're a private company, they make the rules, and not everyone wants to say "absolutely free speech for all". Most ISPs choose to have terms that are vague and woolly and broader than the legal minimum, so that they can yank odious stuff that catches their eye.
You're right, of course. It's the right of a private company to do as they like. It's the broader support for suppressing political parties that gets to me. I'm not from around here, so it's an outsider's perspective, but I really don't like the "I don't like what they say, so lets stop them saying it" attitude.
It annoys me that I have to defend the BNP while doing it, but, as Voltaire said "I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
I think it's probably in terms of exceeding their AUP, rather than the site content, ie, only paying for the sort of traffic you'd see on a site for Little Twattington parish council, rather than a nationwide political party and the requisite resilience. After all, the data centre's other customers might be a little peeved if all traffic in is somewhat slow due to even a minor DDoS on just one organisation.
Oh FFS no doubt they signed up for some service which is entirely inappropriate for their needs which means they are in violation of their T's & C's. Also depending on the T's & C's may prevent certain content.
If that's the case then they should have checked their contract.
Oh dear the BNP are having hosting issues I can't say I am upset about that.
@AC 27th May 2009 14:06 GMT
Millions of people voting for them (not from previous evidence from election data) but then those who support the BNP are not very strong on things like logic, numeracy or literacy.
Somehow I imagine you sounding rather Dalek like when reciting your post for public consumption. Quite frankly I am happy for BNP supporters to be attacked, just as I would for those foisting the current fluffy nanny state (read suvelance state )upon us to be attacked for their actions.
@Austin
The BNP are barely legitimate, I have been on the receiving end of their supporters simply because I come from the wrong part of the UK. The BNP are a poorly executed re branding exercise carried out by the NF
Even Paris dosen't suck as much as Griffin (or anybody else in the BNP)
>If that's the case, then the hosting firm will *surely* also decline to host a website for Labour,
>Conservative, SWP or any other party.
I'm sure they would happily host any party's site that paid.
What they might object to is a site that is likely to get a huge volume of traffic being hosted on a cheap personal site package.
Otherwise all the people that are sharing a single copy of Apache running on the same cheap 1U server as the BNP site might reasonably complain.
is not because they are racist, the BNP is being attacked by self confirmed racists for not being racist, rock and a hard place and all that.
It is because the BNP could take over, and if they do a lot of people in power at the moment will be on the sharp end. A big shake up would happen in the BBC, Media, Police, Civil Service and Judiciary.
The British Nazis are Labour, no other political party has done so much to bring a Fascist regime into play as them, so many freedoms stomped upon by the Labour boot of oppression.
It could be the BBC behind all of this, they do have track record.
NO, it isn't. How many political parties can you remember that only allow members who pass a racial purity test (yes folks, if your skin is too brown you ain't joining, even if you are 10th generation English - but they claim they aren't racist...)? I'll give you one clue - the only example I can think or starts with National and ends with Socialist, and was very popular in Germany about 70 years ago.
Mine's the one with the "anti-nazi league" badge in the lapel
"In case you haven't checked their are millions of people voting BNP now and so you are attacking them too!"
According to http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/vote_2005/frontpage/4519347.stm, that would be 0.2 millions, up from 0.05 millions in 2001. But of course, you can't trust anything you read on that pinko site. Even if it is true, I assume the returning officers conspired to under-report the BNP's votes, as part of the worldwide Jewish conspiracy.
Yes, it is shocking that El Reg feels the need to mock a party just because they are considered objectionable by the vast majority of the population, and both they (original article) and their supporters (you) are demonstrably innumerate. But this is a tech site, and we take numeracy seriously, so what did you expect?
> In case you haven't checked their are millions of people voting BNP now and so you
> are attacking them too!
The BNP received 192,746 votes in the 2005 general election (0.7% of the total cast) and 18,020 in the 2008 London Assembly election (also 0.7% of the total cast), so "millions" have not voted for the BNP. It's a bit difficult to see how you could extrapolate those figures to suggest "millions" this year, especially when turnout is traditionally low for local and European elections.
Even if there were millions, it would still be right to attack a party espousing bigotry and hatred.
Because the BNP are scum.
They stand on a carefully constructed platform that, while fairly extreme, does realistically reflect the views of a significant minority in this country.
However most people, even those who agree with what they say in public, are smart enough to realise they are a bunch of lying nazi shits who's real aims would seem an insane fantasy, were it not for the fact that they were put into practice across Europe within living memory.
I have to agree with Dr Who in questioning these numbers - According to Rapidswitch's own published network information they use 10Gbit pipes between their dispersed facilities and only 2gbit between their redbus and telehouse suites, so yes while a 600mbit DDOS is one their network as a whole can undoubtedly take without a significant problem, it would be incredibly remiss of them if traffic that amounted to roughly 1/15th of their total network capacity between entire datacentres (or roughly 1/3 of the available capacity if BNP were hosted in one of their Redbus suites) being directed at one server "hardly hit their radar".
By all accounts if the 600mbit figure is accurate it's certainly a laughably tiny DDOS in comparason to real attacks, but considering it's easily enough to take a single server offline and would crap out the networks of most small to medium providers, I have to wonder if an extra zero got tacked onto there or something when it gets dismissed as barely noticeable.
I'm sorry, millions of people are voting BNP? I think that maybe untrue. In the 2005 election BNP managed 192,746 votes country wide, or .7% of the count. Just over 27million votes were cast.*
In no way at all will they achieve a 1000% increase required to meet what you are saying. Maybe it should be you checking your facts, eh?
* From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_2005
How unlike the BNP we know and, er, despise, to be lying and/or ill-informed. Surely that's never happened before? Oh wait, there was this thing called the Holocaust which they think didn't happen...
Oh, and for the benefit of the AC above - yes, I *do* register my displeasure with anyone I meet who says they're voting BNP. I make sure they're informed that the BNP are neo-Nazi scum (yes, those are the words I use). Been there, done that.
They've let foreign packets come over here, take down their server... and use Polish spitfires and Oregon construction workers in their election pamphlets
Why wasn't the website set up to only allow good, clean British traffic in? A touch ironic for a party that gives it big on border control.
. . . has to be guaranteed for everyone but fortunately that also lets us all express our opinions about the BNP. I'm sure millions (well thousands anyway) of people do support the BNP but I'm equally sure many of them have been taken in by their softly, softly "we just want to be fair to the people who built this country" spiel. Their PEB was a model of "we're all reasonable people here" marketing.
Yes, the BNP are racist swine, but is it a proscribed organisation? Is it a banned party? No, it's a legitimate political party.
FFS, forget the bloody BNP. I loathe them, you loathe them, all reasonable people loathe them. NONETHELESS, it's the principle of the thing that so important, and that principle seems to sail over the heads of everyone. If, today, you can deny one group service because of their political views, tomorrow it could be YOUR party.
The figures from the last General Election are hardly relevant, since the BNP did not stand a complete slate of candidates. The proportional-representation 2004 European election is a better comparison:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament_election,_2004_(United_Kingdom)
in which the BNP won over 800,000 votes. By all accounts their support has grown significantly since then, so "millions of voters" is an accurate claim. In most local elections where the BNP stand they achieve around 15-20%. It's almost certain the the BNP will win a seat in these Euro elections unless Labour fiddle with the ballot boxes!
No one should be dissuaded by the lies in the mainstream media, like the fake Gurkha leaflet in the Sun, and the continual stream of ignorant comments on forums like this from brainwashed lefties. The real racists are those who think the native British people have no right to self determination, so it's OK for foreigners to colonise our country. According to the Marxist doctrine that has been dominant for the last 40-50 years, we British don't even exist ("there's only one race...") hence why they think it's OK to destroy us!
Over 50% of newborns in London now are to foreign-born mothers, and that doesn't even take into account 2nd / 3rd generation immigrants. So even if we had a BNP government tomorrow, it is inevitable that native Brits will be a minority in our own capital city. The critical question is how soon we elect a BNP government as that will determine whether the rest of the country will fall.
If this occurs we can look forward to a divided state where no ethnic group has a majority, and we will all be competing for power. You only have to look to the Balkans, Iraq, Palestine, Somalia etc. so see how "enriching" it is to live in such as society. That will only be a halfway house since eventually one group will emerge dominant..
PS. Sorry to offend anyone if the truth hurts.
I always have a wry chuckle at the notion of the "indigenous people" that the BNP like to go on about, it inevitably involves the term "Anglo Saxon". The Angles and the Saxons turned up in Britain from what is modern Germany, and - gasp - interbred (no, the HORROR) not only with each other but with the existing Celtic race. Bloody foreigners, coming over here, stealing our jobs, spoiling our racial purity, grumble grumble.
So, this assisted repatriation thing? Anyone "Anglo Saxon and proud" with a BNP leaning can bugger off back to Germany any time they like and leave us happy Liberal Celts behind, thanks.
I lived in London for 14 years. I (often) challenge anyone to name a more tolerant city in a more tolerant country. The BNP represent jack shit.
Since the 'East European Invasion' the BNP have been able to claim that they aren't racist any more, because now they don't care what colour your skin is, they just don't want you to come here. They are Equal Opportunities bigots.
Speaking as a proud, pastey white Englishman of pastey white English parents, I'd like to know how such a term as 'racial purity' could possibly be applied to this of all countries, when we could win prizes for being, generally speaking, the least pure.
We are the mutts of history. Everyone came here (for the sex, apparently). We are the product of over a thousand years of a mish-mash of cultures and bastards. It's the price we paid for our role in history.
Who exactly are the 'true' British? A couple thousand inbred descendants of Ancient Britons that the Romans or the Anglo Saxons or the Celts or the Normans couldn't be bothered to kill, and were too ugly to rape? Did someone say Master Race?
IMO, if your stated aim is a Superior Human Race, then a wide gene pool is a better gene pool. And you don't get much wider than ours! Therefore, progressive Human evolution depends on us ALL shagging Johnny (or Joan) Foreigner, wherever we may find them.
I call the UK's doubtful parentage and murky past A Good Thing, and something to be justifiably proud of. In contrast look at aristocrats, or pure bred dogs, or that kid with the banjo in Deliverence.
...and then, one day, teh Mongrels will rule the planet! All hail!
Congrats. You have just ensured that I'll be voting Conservative for the very first time ever. There's no way that Gordo would ever get my vote, and the LibDems won't win. Meanwhile, the Tories can be counted on to squash you nazi thugs flatter than dead roaches.
And you'll note that _I_ am not posting anonymously.
The noxious tuetons in general and the saxons in particular all came from bloody Central Asia. Let them bugger off back to whatisitstan and stay there.
You _do_ know that 'Saxon' basically means 'shiv man', don't you? Bloody knife-fighting bastards, invading, polluting the countryside, behaving like the chavs they are. Send 'em back where they came from. Do it now. Britain for Celts!
> Over 50% of newborns in London now are to foreign-born mothers ...
And I have to say: so what? Why should I care? Do you want to throw my wife out of the country?
You are so proud of being Anglo-Saxon? But that'll be just two of the hundreds of "foreign" groups who have "invaded" our country in the past and "ruined" our way of life.
> it is inevitable that native Brits will be a minority in our own capital city
No it isn't, because all those "foreign" newborns will be native Brits. Just as much as you or me. Live with it. Get over your inferiority complex and just be happy. Why not go out for a nice meal. You have such a great choice: Indian/Chinese/Mexican/Italian/Polish/American/Vietnamese/French or even British...
> You only have to look to ...
These countries have plenty of other reasons for their problems. Few of them are *caused* by race (but that may be used as an excuse by the ignorant - sound familiar?).
I can think of plenty of examples of other countries with very diverse populations that coexist pretty well.
Singapore is a good example (despite perhaps not being the Western ideal of a democracy).
The USA.
And, oooh, let me think now, oh yes: Great Britain. Which I am proud to say is largely happily multi-cultural despite a small minority of not terribly bright people trying to cause trouble.
The thing is, the trouble isn't caused by foreigners. It is caused by *you*. Try putting your head under water for 30 minutes. See if that helps.
Well, that was *almost* a cogent argument, but you are in the territory of 'epic fail' due to one small thing...
...you posted anonymously.
If you believe in what you are saying; if you feel that you are morally right; if you are a champion and defender of free speech; why did you choose to hide your identity?
I would submit it is because, deep down, you *know* that a policy of discrimination, of any kind, against anyone, is fundamentally wrong, don't you? After all, you're saying that 'the real Brit' is the one being discriminated against, the one forced into the minority rule, aren't you? QED discrimination is wrong - it doesn't matter *who* is on the receiving end, surely? Or are you so utterly blind as to be unable to see beyond skin pigmentations?
If you're so convinced you are right then step up and be named. I'll even listen to your views and consider any evidence you place in front of me. I doubt I'll agree with much you have to say as I am one of the believers in "There is only one people" and a Marxist, to a degree, but I will give you space to air your beliefs.
Of course, you won't - you are ultimately a coward and will practice cowardly tactics, because you *KNOW* you are wrong, don't you?
No? Come on and prove otherwise then.
does no one bother to look at history anymore?
Anyway Anderson is a Swedish name, you hark from the northern tribes, possibly of Pict descent.
Labour is making the next election a race issue, and gambling that enough people have been brainwashed by the double speak educators, because the BNP tends to get ex Labour voters. The Conservatives tend to get ex Liberal voters.
The next election is going right wing no matter what happens, people want a government to concentrate on getting a strong economy back, and leftist bollocks never works, mill stone round the neck of the strong.
The BNP will get the protest votes for Europe, they won't win the general election but they may get a few seats, it would be good to see them tested a bit more. People don't like racism but they do like nationalism. And not many care what the Church says any more. Send the BNP to Europe that will put the cat amongst the pigeons, a nationalist party in Euroland, they are more likely to find out what is going on there, may even get us paying less to the EC or perhaps get our fishing rights back.
> > In case you haven't checked their are millions of people voting BNP now
No. After you've taken your shoes and socks off and counted up as far as you know how please try to remember that the the next number is "twenty one" not "millions".
My father served in the war and saw Belsen shortly after its liberation so don't try to tell me there was no holocaust you small-minded nazi lowlife scumbag.
The BNP probably should have bought better than a budget hosting agreement, so it seems they need to upgrade to a more robust server; IMHO well overdue, however will probably look rather silly, if they exaggerated the DDoS attack, to raise funds for an upgrade.
Mr 'Celt', I doubt you are a pure Celt now, what with all the interbreed between Northern European (White) peoples on this island, the majority of which occurred and formed our culture, and laws, before we had appreciable immigration from other parts of the World. We say Anglo Saxon because they just happened to be one of the more powerful groups after the Romans, and carried on Roman Law, and Christianity, for a while after, we don't tend to say we are Normans, because they acted like thugs.
Immigration is fine at a low level, and without significant differences in, skin colour, culture, law, religion, and birth rate. However immigration is no longer at an acceptable level, this is fracturing our resources _now_, worse, integration and interbreeding appear to be declining, and the negligent UK state keeps making the situation worse, so our very culture, freedom, law, and identity, are under threat.
It is no surprise that the foreign groups like Marxists, and the Islamic mafia, have seen fit to stir up trouble, because they see an opportunity to get a foothold, for their profitable interests, in this country. I may not like all about the BNP, however there are worse groups active now e.g. state Marxists, state Fascists, our criminal parliament, and the Wahhabi Moslems!
"like the fake Gurkha leaflet in the Sun"
What about Grififn on 5-Live calling Gurkhas mercenaries and saying he would pay them more pension and have them live in Nepal and not here?
As I said AC's, why do you hate the Gurkhas? Is it becuase they are not white? Don't want the darkies staying in your street/neighbourhood/town/county/country/planet?
Grow yourself a pair and just admit you are a racist and you don't want the Gukhas living here, instead of being a liar and a racist.
"Anyone "Anglo Saxon and proud" with a BNP leaning can bugger off back to Germany any time they like and leave us happy Liberal Celts behind, thanks."
Ummmm - The original inhabitants of these scepter'd isles were the Picts. The Celts were also invaders. But by the time that the Angles & the Saxons arrived, the Celts had already interbred with the Romans, the idigenous PIcts, various other races that the Romans brought with them, such as East Europeans, North Africans, as well as the various Mediteraneans.
Basically, we are a mongrel race. But that's OK, because most mongrels are far tougher than the thoroughbreds.
And of course, if we want to be picky, we all came from Africa anyway.
Hmmm I'm not aware on any kind of Marxist government in this country. Tell us exactly what Marxist policies exist in British politics.
The fact that you quote from Wikipedia means nothing, since you could have easily changed the figures. Hardly surprising from a party who weren't aware of what impact Polish pilots had in WW2 though.
You really should look at the racially pure people in Roger Ballen's photos.
From BNP supporters comments:
Ludicrous exaggeration: check (floods of DDOS hits_and_floods of forriners)
Frothing hyperbole: check
Unqualified statistics: check
"Poor oppressed white people": check
Paranoid finger pointing ("it woz the BBC/Joos/Searchlight what done it") : check
"liberal media" (those pinkos at the Daily Express, obviously): check
"Everyone else is racist": check
"Everyone else is Marxist": check
"Oo, I'm so victimised": check
Whine whine whine: check, check and check again.
Can I call house?
Honestly, if running a website is beyond the capability of these chumps, how stupid do you have to be to offer them real power and responsibility? (actually, I think Gordon could probably offer them a post running a gov IT project...)
Presumably if we're all about sending people back to their ethnic origin then it'll get a little crowded once all the Americans and Australians have returned here.
Doesn't add up, does it? Any of it.
Why didn't you use your real name?
If we eject all "foreign nationals" who's going to drive the buses, serve in restaurants, clean hotel rooms, treat the sick & dying, pick fruit & veg, mend toilets etc etc
We need immigrants because far too many people in this country are too self-important / bone idol to carry out necessary but unglamorous jobs.
It may have escaped your attention that over the centuries Britain has regularly taken in foreigners who've integrated into our society to such an extent that we've probably got the most multi-cultural society outside the US, and this society works as long as knuckle draggers like yourselves butt out.
Why don't you go and join the like minded ex-pats who live in the Sun reading utopia of southern Spain where you can keep your race pure and English speaking...
Why dont the UK just adopt the aussie style of immigration law. If you aint rich, smart, qualified, or can do a skill we need then sodoff we dont want ya. A boat load of illigals tries to dock, sod off away from our waters (plus escort from boat with big guns). If you come here to sponge off the state and not integrate into our society, we dont want ya! Instead over here the government lets in rapists, terrorists, lowlifes, chavs, etc etc. All the undesirables. I can kinda see why the BNP has such a prob with immigration. Obviously they go waaay to far with their crackpot policies but they are voicing concerns a lot of "normal" people have. Who to vote for anyway, they are all as bad as each other when it comes down to it. From the classic film brewsters millions, ill vote for "none of the above!".
> PS. Sorry to offend anyone ...
No you're not. Obviously.
Otherwise you wouldn't say such objectionable, senseless and hate-filled things. Your only purpose, surely, is to offend and stir up trouble. So then you can say: "look, see, I told you there would be trouble".
I am not sure there is any point attempting to have a rational argument with a narrow minded, ignorant, bigoted coward, but eher goes...
> brainwashed lefties
I'll have you know I am getting more and more right-wing as I get older!
But even if there are an infinite number of universes, there isn't one where I would find your views acceptable (or even comprehensible).
I don't think it is a very accurate description of most Reg readers either. "Free thinking twats" might be a better description :-) I suspect most of them might be too literal-minded and logical to be taken in by your nonsense. (You might have noticed that by now.)
> we British don't even exist
What do you mean by "we British"? Because I am ashamed to be associated with your views. So we'll have less of the "we", thank you very much..
Objectively there is no such thing as a "British race". There isn't a unique set of genetic markers that identify the True Brit from Johny Foreigner, Pub Landlord from Manuel.
Ask a population geneticist about the concept of race, it doesn't exist: there is typically more variation within groups perceived as a "race" than there is between "races". (Oh but wait, maybe he is part of a lefty marxist liberal conspiracy because the science doesn't match your preconceptions.)
There is British nationality, but that is purely a matter of legal convention.
Ultimately, there are just people who live here. Some were born here. And some them have parents who were born here. And so on. But ultimately we all came out of Africa (which must be rather distressing for you). How far back can you trace *all* of your ancestors being born in this country? (Not that I care of course)
> eventually one group will emerge dominant
Hopefully, not yours. Probably, the other 99% of the population. You know, the sensible ones.
looking at these comments just confirms history will take its course:
if you ask 100 A-S Brits if immigration is a good idea, you will get 100 answers.
if you ask 100 people in the 3rd world if they want to come here, you will get 1.
the pressure gradient is assured; it is just a matter of time.
> Tell us exactly what Marxist policies exist in British politics.
Anything he doesn't like. From any party.
It is all part of that big international Marxist-Leninist-Jewish-Islamic-Catholic-Euro-Illuminati-UFO-Lizard conspiracy organized by the BBC. Didn't you know that? They plan to take over the world so they can have sex with his sister and make him clean their toilet.
Luckily, the BNP is going to save us all. Either them or the Scientologists.
"""
We need immigrants because far too many people in this country are too self-important / bone idol to carry out necessary but unglamorous jobs.
"""
Translate Into: Employers need immigrants to keep wages below niggardly! (Pathetic wages give the right kind of inflation figures too, BTW).
"""
It may have escaped your attention that over the centuries Britain has regularly taken in foreigners who've integrated into our society to such an extent that we've probably got the most multi-cultural society outside the US, and this society works as long as knuckle draggers like yourselves butt out
"""
That So?, Well: The last time in History where the UK were running the present immigration rate was when you lot got invaded by the Normans!
The present course will mean Bye, Bye to Britains present culture and language in maybe 50 years or so! With luck most of Europe will still be around, wondering and writing books about the people that hated themselves so much that they went and taxed themselves to fund their own colonization and eventual replacement.
<i>I can think of plenty of examples of other countries with very diverse populations that coexist pretty well.</i>
Well, make a better, longer, list then.
Face it: The only places where cultural-diversity "works" in the wild are either in pure dictatorships or places, like Singapore the USA and soon the UK, that are extremely heavily policed and willing to keep a large percentage of the population in custody.
The amount of people imprisoned for life and the murder rate in the USA represent to me a low-level tribal warfare that I certainly do not want in my country (Denmark) nor in Europe.
I prefer borders, the knowledge that the rules are different southwards rather than having to dodge bullets in Nørrebro, Copenhagen where muslim street gangs are trying to create their own little failed islamic state.
http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travelling-and-living-overseas/travel-advice-by-country/europe/denmark?ta=safetySecurity&pg=2
"""
In Nørrebro in particular there have been a number of recent instances of violence between Hells Angels and minority groups including shootings. Whilst these are mainly gang related and localised you should exercise extra caution in these areas.
"""
We moving so far back in history with this heritage thing now you might as well just say....
It began in Africa-ca-ca-ca [cue music]
Mine's the one with the MP3 player in the pocket which was designed and built in asia, the jacket was designed and built by some poor kid who hopefully is allowed a toilet break in his/her 8hr shift, anyway it'sover there on that hook which was probably built in europe somewhere. My point being there is no such thing as purity, accept it and move on.
Culture divergence is an essential key to evolution.
So what we have here is a failure to communicate the real truth , what a corrupt bunch of "Black Shirkers' that would have Sir Oswald Mosley laughing in his grave at their apathetic antics .
Yes sir , a true failure to communicate , useless silly pommy halfwits and expelled schoolyard bullies with an IQ to low to even join the London MET Police Force as a flat foot beat cop .
Then you also need to discuss the Brigantes and the Welsh, none of whom were one people, because they were all tribes who occasionally worked together or fought each other - and the Picts, the Irish, the Scots, the Jutes, the Normans, the Angles, the Saxons, the Danes... We'll take on all-comers (then lose).
"Anglo Saxon" comes from the "Angles" (a Germanic tribe) and the "Saxons" (a Germanic tribe). The Normans came from Germany. The Danes were a mixture of Norse and Germanic tribes.
Time to get over the Little Englander stance, I'm afraid. There's no such thing and probably never was.
The thing that scares me the most, however, is that in all the election junk I've received through my door in the last week, the only one that actually had policies rather than diatribe was the BNP's.
You are falling for the central BNP lie (or are perpetrating it yourself).
Yes there are obvious problems with immigration.
Yes a lot of people agree with the more extreme things you have said (although I personally don't).
Yes the BNP's public platform is not all _that_ extreme, and you probably really could find millions who would agree with most of it.
But the BNP are not what they say they are. They aren't an "anti-immigration party", they are a neo-nazi party that currently sees an opportunity on the immigration issue.
If you vote for them you simply become one of their useful idiots, who help them towards their real goals (Google "Third Reich" for examples of the sort of state they aim for).
The BNP are, quite simply, scum.
Impressive history until you used the phrase 'little Englander'. That was a slur used by imperialists against people who opposed slaughtering Johnny Foriegners.
Anyone who doubts the BNP are nazis should have a look at the emails on their membership list, including Totenkopf88. In my town they get most of their funding from drug-dealing and violent extortion.
By "Little Englander" I was referring to the type of selective-memory person who believes that two little islands off the coast of Europe are somehow superior to every other person and country on the planet. If you feel I used the wrong term, please insert a more appropriate one of your choice.
I wouldn't credit the BNP with anywhere near the number of braincells required to be in the same league as the 1930s/40s National Socialists. They're wannabes. Opportunist thugs who want to be in power at any cost so they can beat up who they want, any time they want, and they should be treated as such - with disdain. They should and cannot, however, be ignored or banned. Just made to look like the idiots and thugs that they are.
Evidently their grasp of technology and history are equally inept. The UK, not just Great Britain, is an entire nation of people descended from all over Europe who have fought, settled and bred with everyone else from around Europe and beyond. It is perfectly true from my experience, however, that many people really do think that the jobs currently being done by immigrants are "below" them and have a sense of entitlement to money without working to get it. That's not a problem with immigration, that's a problem with people being bone idle and expecting everything for nothing. It's also a problem with industry seeing the opportunity for a quick buck by employing someone cheaper than their current (presumably but not necessarily indigenous) staff.
My point above about the BNP leaflet being the only one with policies is that it's the imbecilic morons we've allowed into power in this country that are giving even bigger imbecilic morons like the BNP the room they need to expand. If the rest of them would stop sniping at each other and start actually running the country rather than running hate campaigns against the other parties, people like the BNP wouldn't have a platform to stand on.
Serious question, my prejudice is that the BNP are a third reich recreating bunch of toss bags.
But it is a prejudice.
Much as theirs is that I am a marxist, foreigner loving part of some conspiracy to reduce their future prospects.
Mostly wrong*.
But I don't actually know much about them.
Yes, they have dodgy email addresses indicating nazi sympathies, but quite a lot of young stupid people don't actually know anything about the nazis other than that they wore cool uniforms, and are generally the baddies, so that sort of hero worship whilst indicative of low educational attainment isn't actually evidence of evil intent.
Yes, some are nasty racists - well news flash, so are some people who aren't BNP. Racism is simply a specific form of xenophobia, from which we all suffer as a natural phobia that decent parenting, education, and exposure can overcome.
I keep hearing that their secret plan is to reinstitute a genuine third reich, but is it, or are they just a not very nice bunch of thuggish nationalists who are emotionally and intellectually insecure (I feel on safe ground saying that given their public pronouncements).
Hyperbole is hyperbole regardless of whether it's 'them' or 'us' using it.
*Yes, mostly wrong, I am in fact a foreigner lover - as often as possible. Although only the pretty ones.
Anyway, any takers with true knowledge?
It's quite interesting to read the stuff written here. Partly to see the polar opposite opinions of people, both sides bunkered down as they verbally cannon each other, and partly to discover, amongst rhetoric some fairly useful stats. but it would be a good idea to put a little stop to the commonly held view that a British race doesn't exist as actually it did and continues to do so.
It's a theory undoes itself very easily when you stop and think for a moment about where the tribes and culures themselves that created a British race came from, and think where those came from, and so on until you eventually come to some scrubland in Africa. It means that eventually you do arrive at a racial purity, probably not the type the BNP and others would be happy to acknowledge of course, but I digress. The point is that to say that one type of person is a misnomer (ie British), but that others are credible (ie Anglo-Saxon, Celts, Picts etc) is wrong.
Anyway, back to the present. The majority of people who wish to live in the UK do so for economic reasons, which has gone on since the dawn of humanity. We migrate to where living is easier and food more plentiful. So to blame anyone for coming to this country is as unpleasant as the false accusations to them of being feckless law breakers and parasites on our public services. Yet we continue to do little to help these people through measurable economic aid beyond throwing some sacks of maze out the back of a Hercules. Sadly, until someone wakes up and changes the way in which we help other nations then people will go on living in conditions no-one should have to tolerate, and want to move to where they can have a better life.
@mike2R """The BNP are, quite simply, scum"""
Certainly, they are. However:
The problem for democracy is that our leaders do not care what we vote: They are all on exactly the same agenda, that of managing up, being seen with the right people, brown-nosing ones way to higher places in the EU commission, the UN, the world bank perhaps - where the skimming is better and the press coverage non-existent.
To do that they need the proper credentials, first and foremost: They must be seen to support and promote multiculturalism in all ways, that means (because even that is a lie) giving preferential treatment to "The Religion of Peace(tm)".
So, sadly, the only way get at them is to vote for some nasty right-wing-scum populist party, because THAT will give a red mark in their resume and THAT is what will make them sit up and listen for a while!
The risk is of course that should a totalitarian party actually get a majority --- whoops --- How Convenient it will be for them that all the STASI -bugging and -policing is already operational courtesy of the so-called responsible politicians. But then, we can always Move - Now or Later, it does not matter so much; at least we tried not to.
Unfortunately in the BNP it's not two islands off the coast of mainland Europe, unless one of those islands happens to be Canvey Island.
anybody from this side of the Irish Sea is unwelcome, unless a member of Combat 18.
Still angry for that Met officer telling me that being beaten up was my own fault because of my accent.
> The present course will mean Bye, Bye to Britains present culture and language ...
The english language, binge drinking and football are all dying out ... ha ha ha ha ha ha ...
Joke Alert, because well, with the BNP you can't do anything but imagine that they're trying to be ironic. But alas, they are not ... :-(
"Freedom of speech is an absolute".
No it isn't. We enjoy a large degree of speech that is free from political interference. But you're most definitely not free to say whatever you want. If you want to debate that ... well I'll be happy to stand outside your house swearing at your kids all night long. I've some choice words for your mother too. I'm sure neither of you will seek legal recourse.
If the government had decided to DDOS the BNP, I think the reaction here would be slightly different.
An article on the BNP attracting so many comments? Who'da thunkit?
Anyway, to quote, "The British Nazis are Labour, no other political party has done so much to bring a Fascist regime into play as them, so many freedoms stomped upon by the Labour boot of oppression."
I think someone has confused nazism with fascism. The BNP are more like nazis. "New" Labour (and the tories) are more like fascists (if you let them get that bad). Fascism is more like Starship Troopers than Stormtroopers, though there may be some overlap since they are both somewhat authoritarian ideals. Fascism is "unity" (whether you like it or not), and basically involves business owning government (hence the term 'corporate fascism'). Nazism is similiar, but underpinning it is the notion that "race is nation". It is also a primarily _socialist_ ideology, so more like government owning business than vice versa. So nazism is inherently racist, whereas fascism is not necessarily so. However either ideology is not desirable in government if you wish to live in a country that values individual freedom.
In either case, the BNP has ties to Combat 18. A bit like Sinn Fein has ties to the IRA. Going to tell me they aren't neo-nazis now?
Yeah. Flame warning for this entire comment tree methinks.
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