back to article Solwise Piggy 6 multi-device powerline network adaptor

As more diverse powerline Ethernet products come to market, the practicalities of using mains wiring for networking become ever more apparent. The Solwise VeseNET 200AV HomePlug AV adaptor is good example of how this system can serve locations that are too costly to be hardwired with Ethernet ports or where wireless networking …

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  1. Nebulo
    Thumb Down

    (Sigh)

    Another nasty little box spewing radio frequency interference into the environment via unscreened mains wiring.

    Never mind "the practicalities of using mains wiring for networking become ever more apparent", for those of us who actually (try to) use the EM spectrum for communication, the steadily increasing impossibility of hearing stations through the pollution caused by this sort of abuse of technology becomes ever more apparent.

    If you use one of these, you're part of the problem. Kindly stop crapping in my environment.

  2. Gerard Krupa

    Just what I was looking for

    My house lacks a plethora of mains sockets so thus far I've had to insert my homeplug devices into strip plugs, severely crippling their speed. Having a device I can plug direct into the mains while still providing sockets for other devices is exactly what I need.

  3. Steven Jones

    a "mere" 100ma?

    If this device is actually consuming 100ma, and that is at mains voltage, then that can hardly be described as "mere" as it is about 24 watts. That's as much as a typical PVR when turned on (and not in standby) and would cost something close to £25 per year in electricity consumption, Of course is may have power-saving circuitry, but that's not a nominal amount.

    I'm a bit doubtful if this is really the consumption - 100ma is too much of a round number, and 24W dissipated in something that size will feel a bit more than warm.

  4. Adrian Jones

    Piggy?

    Not the best word to be using at the moment...

  5. Alex Brett

    16A Rating?

    How can it possibly have a 16A rating if it plugs in to a normal 13A socket - the UK regulations require you to have a max 13A fuse in a plug (the normal socket outlets etc are rated to 13A max), so that doesn't make sense...

  6. This post has been deleted by its author

  7. Tony S.
    Thumb Up

    Re: Solwise Piggy 6 multi-device powerline network adaptor

    The review makes this device seems like a very solid way to accomplish some solid networking either at the small office or at home. Does anyone know if this is available in a version that would work in the US?

    Tony ...

  8. Tony Smith, Editor, Reg Hardware (Written by Reg staff)

    @Nebulo, Gary

    Good powerline products don't emit on frequencies used for communication and haven't since the technology shifted from to-the-home broadband products to in-the-home networking kit - many years ago, now. They are engineered to avoid these frequencies.

    If you can prove the Piggy 6 - or any other powerline product we review, for that matter - isn't so notched, please show us the evidence. No one has yet, despite the claims being trotted out every time.

  9. Graham Diacon
    Alert

    Solwise Piggy 6 multi-device powerline network adaptor

    Tony, you wrote "If you can prove the Piggy 6 - or any other powerline product we review, for that matter - isn't so notched, please show us the evidence. No one has yet, despite the claims being trotted out every time."

    I extend an invitation to you to visit my home and hear the interference that a my neighbour's PLT system radiates. You're welcome to send a PM to me to arrange a date. It's true that the interference is reduced (but far from eliminated) on the amateur bands but listening to short wave broadcasts is impossible except for the very strongest stations

    The mode of operation of these devices is such that when connected to domestic wiring the resulting system fails to meet the relevant Electromagnetic Compatibility regulations by a large margin. These things need to be banned immediately if short wave listening is to continue.

    Most PLT interference today comes from BT Vision systems and OFCOM will accept complaints from those of us affected by it and will apply pressure on BT to hardwire the installations.

    I recommend that you look at http://www.mikeandsniffy.co.uk/UKQRM/ for further info and then sign the petition at http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/SaveShortwave2/

    Graham

  10. Steve Redway
    Unhappy

    Piggy

    What right have PLAs got to take over the HF spectrum radiating their hash outside the confines of the mains wiring of a house.

    A notch for 1-30MHz would be a good idea; however I don't think it work too well then.

    Don't forget if manufacturers have to design notches into this sort of equipment then they are admitting the poor design and interference potential to legal users of the spectrum. Power Line Adapters of this type are not legal radio transmitters, do not have legal access to radiate at these frequencies and should be banned in the UK as not adhering to the EMC regulations they are supposed to.

    I would recommend that purchasers consider ignoring this sort of technology, otherwise they run the risk of interfering with their neighbours radio and visits from OFCOM.

    Use 2.6GHz Wi Fi it's much more friendly and efficient use of the valuable RF spectrum.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Flame

    @Tony Smith

    Much easier solution - just ban radio amateurs and CB enthusiasts instead and take the notching back out.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    power consumption

    The powerline units i bought for my Dad recently were rated at 7w each and got about as warm as I'd expect a 7w device to get (i didn't have my power meter with me to check). When I refurbed my house I installed 2xCat5 to nearly every room. The cable itself might be cheap but add the sockets, faceplates and sockets, plus the time spent knocking out backboxes and pulling cables and it's not a cheap process. Having used Homeplug I don't think i'd bother again - even in a newbuild it's probably only worth using Cat5 for a couple of key rooms and using homeplug/wireless for the rest.

  13. Frank

    @Gerard Krupa re. Just What I was Looking For

    Sorry to disappoint you Gerard, but the article does say that it's a 2m extension lead, so you're out of luck there.

    What I do is put a simple mains socket doubler adaptor into my single wall mounted socket then plug the Solwise AV unit into one of the extension ways. That does leave enough room to plug a normal extension lead into the second extension way to power various equipment.

    If you want or need multiple Solwise units, then you can make a special extension block for them using a short thick lead to a 6-way (say) mains block. All the parts you need are readily available at B&Q and Maplin, etc. In theory, you can buy the Piggy-6 and replace it's 2m cable with a short, thick cable but that may mean breaking into it, which cannot be recommended.

  14. Richard

    @Tony Smith

    Hello Tony,

    I worked with Bill Ray on a story regarding PLT products (see http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/15/bt_vision_interference/ ) earlier this year.

    Whilst the HPA products are not as bad as UPA products, they still cause massive amounts of interference to Short Wave bands when they transfer data. I am a member of the UKQRM group (www.ukqrm.org) who are lobbying Ofcom, BERR and Trading Standards to enforce UK EMC law.

    Recently a petition was started and was answered by number 10

    http://www.number10.gov.uk/Page19025

    Which states "As with all electrical and electronic products sold in the UK, Power Line Technology (PLT) equipment is required to meet the relevant regulations before it can be placed on the market. In particular, it must comply with the Electromagnetic Compatibility Regulations 2006 (the EMC Regulations) "

    A key part of the EMC regs are the "Essential requirements" which state:

    "Essential requirements

    4.—(1) A reference to “essential requirements” in relation to equipment is a reference to the requirements set out in paragraph (2) and in the case of fixed installations shall include the requirements set out in regulation 5.

    (2) Equipment shall be designed and manufactured, having regard to the state of the art, so as to

    ensure that—

    (a) the electromagnetic disturbance it generates does not exceed a level above which radio

    and telecommunications equipment or other equipment cannot operate as intended; and

    (b) it has a level of immunity to the electromagnetic disturbance to be expected in its intended use which allows it to operate without unacceptable degradation of its intended use.

    Part III, General Requirements - Apparatus:

    15.No person shall place on the market apparatus unless either the following requirements, or

    the corresponding requirements of the EMC Directive as implemented under the law of another state in the Community, are met—

    (a) the apparatus is compliant with the essential requirements;

    16. No person shall put into service apparatus unless it complies with the essential requirements when properly installed, maintained and used for its intended purpose.

    Regarding CE marking:

    21.—(1) For the purposes of these Regulations, the CE marking shall be regarded as properly affixed in relation to apparatus if the requirements of this regulation are complied with.

    (2) Where—

    (a) the apparatus is compliant with the essential requirements

    http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2006/uksi_20063418_en.pdf

    As you can see from the Youtube clip in Bills article, significant amounts of interference are being produced by PLT systems, and are not compliant with Essential Requirements.

    I also have an HPA presentation which states "Safety, immunity and harmonics are correct but almost all PLC devices pass over the CISPR 22 class A, B limits so failed the test and we could not generate (directly) the DoC (Declaration of Conformity) needed for Europe"

    We have test data for a three PLT products. The measurements were conducted in a UKAS accredited lab and I can provide.

  15. Brendan Minish
    Thumb Down

    Radio interferance

    There are numerous studies on the interference that power line networking devices cause to radio users. Here is a URL to one written recently by a UK based EMC test house

    http://www.elmac.co.uk/pdfs/Why_PLT_is_bad_for_EMC_V5_final.pdf

    Home Plug (HPA AV standard ) devices do indeed include notching of the Main amateur radio bands and in many cases this is sufficient to offer some protection to interference to neighbouring amateur radio users.

    However these devices DO NOT Notch the HF (Shortwave) broadcast bands and as a result do not protect the rights of Short wave radio listeners.

    This would not be a particularity big issue except for the fact that the interference is radiated considerably beyond the boundary of the PLT device users property, in some cases affecting reception at distances as large as 500M away

    May I suggest that the next time that a reviewer is to test one of these devices that the reviewer also be given a cheap Shortwave portable radio and that the reviewer spends some time tuning around the HF broadcasting bands in the vicinity of 5.9, 7.3, 9.5, 11.5, 13.6 and 15.1 MHz broadcasting bands PRIOR to activating the units under test.

    Once the Units are powered up and passing network traffic repeat the listening tests. To conclude this part of the experiment the reviewer may then wish to see at what distance from the property the interference remains strong enough to interfere significantly with shortwave broadcast reception.

    Despite any claims of compliance with various standards by the vendors they are still required to comply with the Essential requirements of the EMC directive.

    http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/electr_equipment/emc/directiv/text.htm

    the relevant line here (para 4,a) being

    " the electromagnetic disturbance it generates does not exceed a level allowing radio and telecommunications equipment and other apparatus to operate as intended;"

    In the UK the responsibility for enforcement lies with OFCOM and any radio user can at NO charge ask that OFCOM investigate and order the removal of devices causing radio interference to Broadcast reception OR Amateur radio since both are protected services, Regardless of what standards the interfering device claims to adhere to.

    regards

    Brendan Minish (EI6IZ)

    CTO Westnet

    IEEE member

    Member of IEEE EMC society

  16. Rob Beard
    Thumb Up

    I could do with one of these

    I could do with one of these little units. I've recently got BT Vision and decided to use the cheap crappy Powerline ethernet devices that come with it to link the main bedroom up so I could use the XBOX for streaming etc. As great as they work, they are bulky and as I've got limited sockets I need an extension cable too, plus a switch so one of these neat solutions would work great and cover just about everything I would want to use (Gamecube, XBOX and Playstation 2).

    Shame they're a bit pricey but I guess like everything they'll eventually come down in price.

    Rob

  17. Nebulo
    Unhappy

    @Tony Smith

    Tony, "good" powerline products don't emit *as much* on *some* comms frequencies. They still emit quite sufficient power to compromise the entire HF band for weak signal work, and often even for broadcast listening - hence my gloomy comment.

    Proof of this does not involve simply showing that *one* of these things doesn't emit *much* under certain circumstances; proof of humanity's increasing pollution of the EM spectrum can be obtained by the simple expedient of trying to listen to just about anything on HF and hearing only the din of thousands, or millions, of PLT devices, cheap switchmode power supplies, PC's with great holes cut in the sides, and, and, and ... as an enthusiast, I scan most of HF every day, and it is already verging on the unusable, particularly in cities.

    If people insist on using radio links for a job which is done far more efficiently (and, let's remember, using no extra energy at all) by a bit of wire, then find some part of the spectrum which isn't going to cog it up for the rest of us.

    We only have the one spectrum. There is no other area of it in which worldwide communications can be carried out and I still say, stop polluting it.

  18. Tony Smith, Editor, Reg Hardware (Written by Reg staff)

    @Nebulo

    Polluting the airwaves? Agreed. The sooner broadcasters get off the airwaves and on to t'internet - so I can stream their programming from my router and over my powerline Lan, natch - the better!

  19. Richard
    Thumb Down

    @AC 15:30

    Great idea!

    Then who would have been first on call to set up communications during the Boxing Day Tsunami? Or arrange emergency comms on 9/11 when the emergency systems went off air as well as the cellular systems because the infrastructure kit was on top of the towers?

    You might think that teh Interweb and your mobile give you the power to talk bollocks with anyone on the planet, but If shit happens and you are out of the game and in the land of the unconnected, crying into your router, we have the ability to set up worldwide emergency ad-hoc comms networks.

    It's a very satisfying feeling to know that I can set up comms without relying on a large corporation to serve it to me and dictate it's use.

  20. Roar Dehli
    Stop

    PLC home plug adapters do make radio interference !

    To Nebulo, Gary:

    You say that good powerline products don't emit on frequencies used for communications.

    In this area I must disagree with you. I have tested some Devolo Home Plug unit's and found them to emit on frequencies used for AM shortvawe bands etc.. There was notches in most of the amateur radio bands, but there still are some interference here also. Some PLC units have been tested by the Norwegian telecommunication authoroties, but none of the units pass the EN55022 test. EMC reqirements are all going "down the drain" because of "loose" requirements and new EU laws. This is bad news for HF radio spectrum users.

    In the video link below you see my test of the Devolo units. I did start transferring of a big file from one computer to the other in my own apartment, then I walk outside to see the range of the PLC interference to the shortvawe band. I start to walk toward my house, and as you can see the interference are severe.

    Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlJvUwSZqNE&feature=channel_page

    In this test you see the Devolo units in standby mode:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHtCkOVQfjA&feature=channel

    And the same test with the Devolo units in transfer mode:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMR4wPDUM9g&feature=channel

    As you can see the radio interference makes it impossible to listen to AM shortwave.

    For those who wants to use the AM shortwave bands, this will be impossible with these units in the neighbour house or in a 80-100m radius from the radio antenna.

    That is why we shall all use CAT-5 cable for our home networks !

    Many radio amateurs are buying amateur radio equipment for maybe £10.000 or more , and then some plastic box costing £40 are wiping out parts of the radio spectrum. This does not make sense !

    LA4AMA

    Roar Dehli

    Norway

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Dead Vulture

    16A rating

    Alex Brett is right - it's only 13A rating in the UK. It's 16A rating abroad, where it will have a 16A-rated Schuko plug, which explains where that figure came from. El Reg is regurgitating manufacturers' info without putting a thought filter in the way, as often happens.

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Boffin

    @ Richard

    quote: "As you can see from the Youtube clip in Bills article".

    Oh! a youtube video! Everybody knows that youtube videos are the very essence of scientific integrity! What next, a link to wikipedia?

    C'mon, if you want to present a case (and you may have a valid argument) please use some actual evidence. If PLT is as bad as you say, it should be easy easy to prove. You say you have test data from 3 PLT products; what products, are they still being sold, and what is the data?

    Just don't ask me to believe you based on a youtube video! FAIL!

  23. Shane Mussell
    Black Helicopters

    Chortle..

    I like a lot of the SolWise products but sadly as everyone knows these PLT products don't just create hassle for the Amateurs, CB and shortwave listeners they also create problems for other services too.

    There is no point arguing the point they do create huge amounts of interference and it has been proven time and time again.

    By all means reviews should be carried out but perhaps a note of caution should be attached, after all I would hate to see someone buy one only to have a knock on the door and be told to remove it.

    Sadly OFCOM just don't care right now, wait until someone dies because of one of these things (creating interference on the Marine or airband for instance) and you might see a change.. doubt it though..

  24. Tim Hague

    More Rubbish

    Tony, you asked for proof of interference, you were given proof and yet you come up with a smart ass comment, why ask if thats all you do?.

  25. Gnomalarta
    Thumb Down

    @Tony

    At least we now know that any review of yours is as likely to be based on your selfish needs as it on the quality and appropriateness of the technology under review.

    Whilst I read the Register every day there's one section I won't be bothering with!

  26. Richard

    @AC 17:42

    Do me a favour and read my post where I talk about Essential Requirements. Products must not cause interference:

    "Equipment shall be designed and manufactured, having regard to the state of the art, so as to

    ensure that—

    (a) the electromagnetic disturbance it generates does not exceed a level above which radio

    and telecommunications equipment or other equipment cannot operate as intended..

    Does not using Youtube to demonstrate empirical evidence of interference make sense? The results are perfectly repeatable and verifiable.

    The reason why PLT causes problems is because the domestic mains wiring is unbalanced, which is why RF energy leaks from the cabling in abundance. PLT is an environmentally very dirty technology.

    PLT may well work if the domestic mains is replaced with balanced cabling a-la wired ethernet or DSL, but it kind of might make it not cost effective.

    Comtrend claimed conformance to EN55022 for their DH10-PF. I have evidence that these products do not comply with this specification. They fail by over 30dB and were tested in a UKAS accredited laboratory. That's what you call EPIC FAIL!

    We also have test data for Advent and Netcity products. All failed EN55022 and were also tested in the same lab.

  27. Richard
    Thumb Down

    @Tony Smith

    OK, let's get rid of HF broadcasting then...

    So how are people in African villages going to listen to radio via "t'internet"? Surprisingly, most mud-hut's don't have BT broadband.

    How are people in war-torn areas going to get information as to what is happening around them? How about net censorship and the exclusion of certain networks and information servces?

    Great. Let's just leave everyone behind the great firewall of China to rot. WTF do you think that there are still huge blocking stations transmitting to wipe out broadcast stations from the West?

    Moving closer to home, how about DRM, which promises to make Short Wave as easy to access as DAB? Is it more important for you to not get off your arse and construct a proper network?

    If your TV picked me up, I bet you'd be knocking my door in a shot, bleating about your not being able to watch your pr0n. Seems like you see your needs as being more important than anyone elses.

  28. Peter Bond

    PLC / HF radio

    So is it the case that PLC networks and HF/CB radio systems will always clash when in close proximity? Or is it dependent on the state of the wiring in a house, the antenna on the radio system etc etc? If its a case of only a small % of HF radio users having a problem with nearby PLC set ups, well that's just tough tit, we don't live in a perfect world, on the other hand if its 100% of users, then action needs to be taken.

  29. Steve Redway
    Thumb Down

    Of limited technical understanding

    Polluting the airwaves? Agreed. The sooner broadcasters get off the airwaves and on to t'internet - so I can stream their programming from my router and over my powerline Lan, natch - the better!

    Mr Smith,

    I think as Editor of what could be a respected consumer technology review site, you have firmly pinned your colours to the mast. Your stated inconsiderate, misunderstanding of current EMC regulations are quite apparent, I certainly would question the technical capability of you and your reviews to add any meaningful and respected comment regarding this sort of PLA technology . The HF bandsare legally protected from this sort of products blatant spectrum abuse, your justification and condoning of their continued use puts you in a very questionable position indeed.

  30. Anonymous Coward
    Go

    Interference with vital services

    > OK, let's get rid of HF broadcasting then...

    > So how are people in African villages going to listen to radio via "t'internet"? Surprisingly,

    > most mud-hut's don't have BT broadband.

    > How are people in war-torn areas going to get information as to what is happening

    > around them? How about net censorship and the exclusion of certain networks and

    > information services?

    I'll take a wild guess that the majority of mud huts in African villages aren't going to have power line networking (or indeed any other kind of networking although I imagine it's reasonably easy to put cables through a mud wall and make good the decoration afterwards) and neither does downtown Gaza (without reliable mains electricity powerline networking's going to be a bit of a non-starter really). Are you suggesting that the use of powerline networking is going to affect the reception of HF broadcasts hundreds (or even thousands) of miles away from the nearest widespread deployment?

    Widespread sophisticated home computer networking of *any* kind is an urban phenomenon for the (relatively) affluent so it's not going to be making a great deal of difference to anyone's radio reception outside those pockets of the affluent West with decent broadband internet availability.

    > Sadly OFCOM just don't care right now, wait until someone dies because of one of these

    > things (creating interference on the Marine or airband for instance) and you might see a

    > change.. doubt it though..

    The CAA, the emergency services, (and I assume the maritime equivalents) tend to take this sort of thing quite seriously - consider recent kerfuffles about the abuse of laser pointers for instance, and their involvement in campaigns against pirate radio in the FM bands but I haven't heard a single word out of them on this issue. I can't help feeling that's probably because they don't see a problem.

    It seems to me that really just leaves a relatively small number of hobbyists of one kind or another adversely affected, that's just one lifestyle choice against another and one set of anoraks against another. As such I'll keep using those nice little boxes BT sent me with my BT vision box to link the upstairs bits of my network with the downstairs bits until I either redecorate or one of the neighbors complains, which is unlikely as they're all either married or have boy/girl friends as appropriate and wouldn't be seen dead in corduroy with leather elbow patches...

  31. Peter Kay

    Shortwave in a disaster

    Call me picky, but I have a strong suspicion that in a disaster the chance of all communications being taken out but coincidentally every suitable site for a shortwave radio being in range of a working homeplug device is really rather low..

    Cat 5 can be an arse to add to homes, and is even worse in modern houses that don't have floorboards or empty cavities between walls. Homeplug is a fantastic solution.

  32. Steve Redway
    Thumb Down

    Homeplug is NOT a fantastic solution.

    Homeplug and PLAs in general are an easy to install short cut utilising a non conforming technology. They do not conform, as required by law, to EMC directive EN55022 and, as has been pointed out already in this thread, there has been irrefutable evidence gathered from UKAS accredited laboratories and presented to both the authorities and manufacturers alike to support this.

    I agree that Cat 5 networking in a home can be difficult, that was why IEE 802.11 2.4GHz Wi Fi was developed and is in use in more homes than any other form of home networking. The 2.4Ghz solution does not cause any interference to other legal users of the radio spectrum, unlike our little Piggy here.

    Call me picky too, but a properly installed 2.4GHz solution is far more acceptable and should deserve the support of all the techies commenting here, regardless of their personal interests.

  33. Richard

    @AC 12:32

    I was commenting on Tony Smith's remark "The sooner broadcasters get off the airwaves and on to t'internet"

    Which is why I made the points that I did regarding peoples current reliance of HF to get news and information. Why would China build the Firedragon jamming system? They can control peoples freedom on-line, but it's far harder to stop them accessing HF broadcasts. They can't block all Broadcast systems with the Firedragon, but PLT can on a local scale.

    I also get the impression that the CAA are concerned by PLT, as are the BBC. As to what level of concern; I really cannot comment.

  34. P Stevens
    Stop

    PLTs, no thanks.

    Cat 5 can be an arse, eh? Awww. Thgere's an old guy up the road from me, who had an arse of a job to save on his pension for a decent comms receiver, after having an arse of a job working all his life. The radio had been his hobby for 40 years, and he had an arse of a job building a nice antenna system so that he could enjoy his harmless hobby.

    Then, someone innocently bought a power line ethernet adapter. Someone 300 metres away, and from the moment they plugged the accursed thing in, his hobby was ruined. He's blind, so he can't just watch telly. But don't worry about other people's rights. You just go ahead and support this crappy technology, it'll be banned once it's properly retested anyway, and there's a whole lot of people out there who aren't going to stop complaining until it is. You mean to say you can't run a cable between two points? Really? How did the phone line get into your home? Got a TV aerial? A satellite dish?

    The law is simple enough: any new product must not cause harmful interference. These do, and they will until they're all recalled. They do not, and cannot comply with EMC regs. That's why BT have to remove them when Ofcom find them.

    Any new technology worth its salt doesn't destroy an existing, proven technology for a fast buck or convenience. A lot of people use computers with PCs too. How's that going to work? What about the manufacturers and suppliers of the radio gear hobbyists use? Isn't this a threat to their markets? Of course it is. They were there first. PLTs, get lost. You're not welcome.

  35. Anonymous Coward
    Stop

    @AC et-al Same old "it works for me and I don't care about others" attitude, :-(

    The fuss ages ago over FCC class A and class B products caused all kinds of protests from people who knew what they would be like near RF sensitive devices and from that EMC regs were improved so that you can use a lot more electrical equipment in the presence of others without causing undue issue in either.

    The "it works for me and that's that" gang makes me sad whenever I read comments like that - it is because people who want to maintain some level of spectrum control get involved and fix it for people like "them" - So that they can enjoy TV or radio or $ky or whatever ... I am sure if I lived next door to Mr Kay and suddenly 800w's of SSB was all over his "TV" & 'Radio' then I am sure he would be calling OFCOM quicker than you can say "I cannot watch home and away" and wanting something done about it.

    Oh Peter, you don't need CAT5 all over the house; there is this thing called "wi-fi" been about a while now ... seems to work very well and has never interfered with my microwave ...

    PLT and the like need to either be compliant to *our* EMC laws or banned in/for domestic use.

    Steve

    STOP because broadcast bands should be for broadcasting and not PLTs.

  36. Simon Batley
    Alert

    Ofcom might ask you to stop using this if you cause interference

    Please be aware that if in using such a PLA device you cause harmful interference to HF radio Ofcom may require you to stop using the equipment unless you can demonstrate you can stop the interference. This has happened to three addresses within a .3 mile radius of me in Suffolk in the last month.

    .

    Obviously if you do not cause interference from your domestic wiring from using the device then you have nothing to worry about.. but make sure you can get your money back just in case you do - also you might not know you are causing issues - unless you are a HF radio user of course - for many months - so make sure you return window is longer than 28 days, just in case.

    Simon

  37. Zsdead

    Very Unprofessional Mr Tony Smith

    Your understanding of pla is very limited.

    Perhaps it would be an idea to bring to this forum something you are qualified to comment on.

    The Earth is flat ?

  38. UKQRM

    Very surprised at the editors comments!

    Well I am surprised at your comments Mr Smith!

    You ask for proof which is a very fair thing to do, but then I note you say that you want shortwave broadcasters removed so you can stream them over your power line adaptor.

    I can only assume that you forgot to add the :-) or ;-) indicating that this was just a joke and not to be taken as the serious view of an editor on the Register?

    Proof that power line Ethernet does cause harmful interference can be had easily by visiting the UKQRM web site.

    www.ukqrm.org and looking for the video page.

    Here you will see and hear the problems demonstrated.

    The reasons for this are also clearly explained.

    The thing is, UKQRM represents those who use shortwave every day, there are hundreds of thousands of us, from broadcast listeners like myself to amateur radio operators.

    The we have the professional users such as long range aircraft communication, search and rescue, military, shipping and many more besides.

    You will see why statements that appear not to give a care about this boil our blood.

    You may be interested to know that the UK Government has said that power line adaptors must comply with the EMC regulations 2006 (not just claim it but do it)

    It has been our experience when having some of these adaptors tested that they fail to comply by a very wide margin.

    This means that they must be on our market under very questionable circumstances!

    Those planning to buy these products may like to consider the cash outlay if and when they become banned and are removed from the market and use.

    We at UKQRM are not living in the past or against technology! why would we be, its great and may of us use the latest technology to work with our radios, digital modes and so on.

    The amateur and shortwave listener market is very big indeed.

    What would you say to the large number of businesses and suppliers who make hi tech shortwave equipment? are they to just roll over and give up because people are too lazy to install proper, secure wired links for their home networks?

    I hope once you have taken the time to understand this situation you may feel that we have a legitimate complaint?

    Regards

    Mike

    www.ukqrm.org

  39. Steve Redway
    Thumb Down

    Sorry, not so fantastic

    Homeplug is NOT a fantastic solution. These products have been proved categorically to be non-conforming to European EMC directive EN55022 in a UKAS accredited laboratory and the radiated RF causes spectrum abuse whenever they are installed.

    Whilst I agree that Cat 5 can be somewhat demanding for some to install in a normal house, taking the irresponsible way of using PLA for networking around your house, will lead to interference to radio and visits from OFCOM who are there to protect the interests of those lawful users of the RF spectrum, which incidentally is not and never will be Power Line Adapters.

    We have a perfectly good system, the IEEE 802.11 2.4GHz Wi Fi, which interferes with no one and will route your broadband and games consoles around your house with ease. Legally too.

  40. P Stevens
    Thumb Down

    Correction

    >>A lot of people use computers with PCs too<<

    Should of course read "A lot of people use computers with their radio equipment too".

  41. Brendan Minish

    @Peter Kay

    As an an engineer I am not as a rule a big fan of analogies but here is one to ponder.

    I, as your next door neighbour have decided that going off the electricity grid is good for my wallet and good for the environment.

    To this aim I have procured a few mates who work in the fast food industry to supply me with large amounts of old Chip oil at no cost, recycling, what harm in that. how green am I..

    I have also acquired a big old Lister Diesel generator that has been modified by the vendor to run on my free old chip oil.

    I have installed it in my back garden and it runs 24/7 supplying free electricity to my house, I am doing my bit for the environment and my wallet.

    Unfortunately for my neighbours it's very noisy and it's a bit smelly, Particulates soil your laundry any time you attempt to use your washing line and the pleasant aroma of old fast food circulates throughout the neighbourhood.

    However my vendor assures me that it meets current spec in all these areas and is 'fit for purpose'

    How dare my neighbours intervene to deprive me of my new 'green' electricity supply, or even for that mater dare to pass comment on my new superior off grid arrangements?

    regards

    Brendan Minish (EI6IZ)

    CTO Westnet

    Member IEEE

    Member IEEE EMC society

  42. Anonymous Coward
    Pirate

    Dear Mike of UKQRM

    Please be aware that El Reg does not conform to general standards ( the :-) or ;-) that you indicate) and operates on its own set of rules... the comment 'natch' in this case should be the clue here as an over emphasised 'Naturally' drawing the whole post to the over to the 'who the hell talks like that?' kind of post.

    Please do not be offended by the vulture humour, the writers do get things wrong occasionally they like to ask for proof, being accused of being wrong is a daily occurance, it is rarely the case though. In this case the joke that if you want to talk to someone on the other side of the globe use the internet is amusing to most, but just like those Danish cartoons can cause offence...

    I think that if you wanted to push your case, as soon as some civil servant refuses to act or a minister tries to shush up your claims el'reg would be more than happy to hang em out to dry for you. Of course the problem in this case is the offender is massess not some greedy GlobophormCorp so if put to a democratic vote whose side would win?

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