G20 police demand ID as train staff ordered to spy on passengers

Hysteria over protests connected to the G20 conference continues to grow, with ID checks for East-end residents and train staff told to tip off police about suspicious passengers. The Metropolitan Police is telling residents and workers near the ExCeL conference centre, where G20 leaders will meet, that they will need two …

[Dave]

Cross-pond Spelling

I think you'll find that 'traveling' is the US form of 'travelling', which might give some insight into where the letter originated.

[Anonymous Coward]

Note to Brazilian plumbers

Stay home.

[Anonymous Coward]

@Dave

More likely they are too inept to change dictionaries between US and UK English

[kevin biswas]

no legal basis for the request.......

"A spokesman for Scotland Yard said there was no legal basis for the request, but that people would get through barriers more quickly if they had the two forms of identification".

Erm...........pardon ?

[Stephane Mabille]

Shirts...

Ah, finally... it was about time to do something... a group of coloured shirts, an arrestable offence under the Bad Taste Terror Act.

What about the ugly hi-viz Blue-Yellow jackets carried by the FIT team (no they aren't gym instructors)?

[Anonymous Coward]

spell checker

.. perhaps the creator of the communication doesn't know how to change the spell checker to UK English. What the hell is US English anyway?! At least the Canadians have the good grace to speak and spell properly.

[rhydian]

@Dave

Or someone's copy of Word hasn't been set to UK English?

[Warren]

If I were going

to protest, I wouldn't take the train - might arrive too late to join in.

Seriously, though, have they forgotten our freedom of speech? And is it any concern of the train companies where their passengers are going? They don't care when I've got an important meeting that contributes to the UK economy....

Mine's the one with the logo on.

[Ash]

Why inform BTP?

What will the British Transport Police do to a group of people travelling to London?

"I'm sorry Sirs, you'll have to come with me. We don't want no civil disobedience in our town!"

[Anonymous Coward]

do

I hope we all have jack boots ready, the next march threw london will probably be for our Glourious New Police Backed Rulers. The Puritain Alliance of New Britannia. You point your daily mail at the Master General Jackie and Grand Ruler Gordon. Or whoever is in charge of the Puritain alliance by then, there are plenty of people who want the Job on all sides of the house.

[Sean Groarke]

This is really not good

So in Britain today you can be reported to the police if you are: "Groups of travellers wearing noticeable themed clothing, for example same large logo or coloured shirts etc"

I know the "If you've nothing to hide you've nothing to fear"-brigade will say that folks like me are over-reacting, but I find this so deeply troubling. The British people (and many others, I freely admit) are sleepwalking in to something very dangerous. Exactly what "it" is is hard to predict. But I do predict that it's not good.

Wake up and do something.

[Anthony]

no legal basis

Surely if the requirement to provide ID isn't legal then the checkpoints that demand that ID aren't legal either.

[Anonymous Coward]

Papieren, bitte

The demonstrations will be the perfect excuse for New Labour to use the Civil Contingencies Act to declare marshall law.

[Anonymous Coward]

Great codename

Glencoe was the scene of the largest massacre of civilians in British history when the English government, using soldiers and local quislings (Campbell's) tried to exterminate a local clan they they perceived as not loyal enough, killed 38 men, and had a further 40 women and children die of exposure.

Are they planning to crack some heads together?

[Tom]

No legal basis?

Id like to see someone challenge this in a court of law. Is it really legal to say we will make it hard for you to get to your house if you don't produce two forms of ID which we have no right to ask for and are even willing to admit that?

If they have no legal right to stop you walking to your house and walking to your house is not suspicious activity so they have no right to conduct a search or stop you in any way, in which case people should just walk straight past the police and ignore their requests for ID, as they have already admitted they have no legal right to ask for it! It surely isnt legal for the police to harass you because you are not carrying ID they know you don't have to carry or show to them.

Crazy, everyone should walk around without ID and keep leaving and coming back. Who do these people think they are.

[censored]

Know your rights...

I'm fairly sure the Human Rights Act allows you peaceful enjoyment of your own home. You do not have to show ID to get to it, and any attempt to enforce it sounds to me like it's not just "lacking a legal basis" but downright illegal.

[John Macintyre]

actually

It just reads like a bag o' shite, someone needs to shot or taught proper grammar.

On the plus side, having been told to dress down to work for the next few days I suspect based on this list that I fit the description they're looking for, should blend right in :)

[Anonymous Coward]

Groups?

"Groups of travellers wearing noticeable themed clothing, for example same large logo or coloured shirts etc

Any noticeable groups who are believed to be traveling [sic] to London

Any groups carrying banners or posters

Any group bookings to London that day/s"

So if you're on a works outing, a rugby tour, off to a football match, a stag party, a hen night or God knows what else...you're fucked.

Of course any protestors wouldn't be smart enough to do something 'crazy' like, say, wear a coat or maybe have a change of shirt.

Mine's the one with no large logos or bright colours on it that's travelling alone.

[Martin]

Protestor Travel Advisory

We ask that all protesters are extra vigilant in their journeys to and from work on these days.

G20 Summit in London - Disruptions expected 28 March - 02 April 2009

Protesters face chaos next week with areas of London in security lockdown for the G20 summit and warnings that bankers will be doing their usual utmost to justify ridiculously overpaid jobs whilst gleefully buggering the economy, and anybody else who they can.

Protesters in the City are being advised to wear 3 piece suits and pink shirts amid fears that they will be forced to run the gauntlet of police denying them a legitimate right to protest.

On 1 April a coalition of overpaid and unethical bankers will travel from commuter belts to four major London stations - Moorgate, Liverpool Street, London Bridge and Cannon Street - potentially obstructing thousands tourists and homeless people, before marching herd-like to their day jobs.

A crack team will target the Stock Exchange attempting to completely devalue any pensions you may have managed to keep away from Gordon Brown’s half arsed ‘fiscal planning’. The ‘Guns not Food’ campaign will march on the US embassy in Grosvenor Square to provide them with a lifetime service award. Police are going to do their utmost to apply draconian anti-terrorist legislation to obstruct as many people as they can. Anyone with a beard or a swarthy complexion should be extra vigilant as random searches will randomly target them. At random.

[Edward Miles]

Sorry to the mods but I think it's justified...

Papers, citizen!

[James Henstridge]

@Dave

From someone who doesn't know how to change their spell checker language?

[Anonymous Coward]

groups?

Groups of travellers wearing noticeable themed clothing, for example same large logo or coloured shirts etc ??

I imagine that many of the 80000 or so heading to Wembley for the footy. I hope each and every one of them is reported to the BTP to investigate :)

[M7S]

Uniform

"Groups of travellers wearing noticeable themed clothing, for example same large logo or coloured shirts etc"

You'll notice lots of groups of people wearing the Stillitoe Tartan. They're very suspicious, usually of everyone else, and I think they might be some sort of gang, they all have "patches" on the backs of their jackets, showing their group affiliation, just like bikers.....

[Dan Breen]

spel chequer?

Yup - from the desk of someone who doesn't bother checking their spell checker, (like I don't normally).

Paris - well, it could have been her?

[Anonymous Coward]

Freedom, Liberty...

And this government has the gall to complain about China/Burma/Zimbabwe...

At least in those countries, the laws, rules and regulations are clear... They make no pretense to Freedom and Liberty; whereas our beloved government do...

Why all these G20 leaders can't just meet up on someone's private yacht somewhere instead of inconveniencing half of London, is beyond me.

[Michael Fremlins]

How can the police use a law which does not exist?

Which law is being used to demand two forms of identification from members of the public? How are the police able to get away with this?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm confused...

If they know some of the activists of old, why would they need to check people's ID? Surely they'll be able to recognise these 'known' activists. Similarly, if they've been monitoring chat-rooms, etc, how is an ID check going to help? Are the suspected crusties going to be carrying a passport in the name of swampy, ihatezbankers or other similar web-monickers?

"A spokesman for Scotland Yard said there was no legal basis for the request, but that people would get through barriers more quickly if they had the two forms of identification"

So they're basically saying, we don't care what the law says, carry ID, or we'll inconvenience you.

If they can get away with this once, how much do you want to bet that this will be a ploy on far more occasions and when they've gotten away with it on a large scale, a number of times, how much easier for them to start expecting people to carry ID all the time? Once you are able to hassle people for ID, they'll start carrying it and you start to wedge in an acceptance amongst the sheeple.

Expect similar occasions of 'We know it's not legal, but it's going to be easier if you carry ID" in cities across the UK in the coming months.

Still no V for Vendetta icon?

[Anonymous Coward]

Compare verus the land registry

Hypocricy alert Ding/Dong/Ding/Dong:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7971612.stm

So when one wants to steal a 500K house no ID is required and the government supports it outright. At the same time when wants to get home or to work in a "special area" two proofs of ID. WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

Glencoe?

Was this organized by the Master of Stair?

[kain preacher]

@Dave

But he did use the word "traveller" I believe the author made a typo when he typed traveling and left out an "l". Rarely have I ever seen a letter by an American that had the heading good day. Letters are more commonly started with the greeting hello in America .

[Anonymous Coward]

Rozzers making new laws again.

Vote these idiots out and bring the rozzers back within the bounds of Parliamentary control.

There is nothing wrong with protesting. Protest is healthy in a functioning democracy.

[Geoff Mackenzie]

@Tom

"If they have no legal right to stop you walking to your house and walking to your house is not suspicious activity so they have no right to conduct a search or stop you in any way, in which case people should just walk straight past the police and ignore their requests for ID"

Unfortunately, I can't second your suggestion. They'll shoot you repeatedly in the face at point blank range without warning in a crowded confined space and claim you ran.

[Anonymous Coward]

@Dave

In a half-century of life in the US, I don't remember ever hearing an American use the word "whilst".

[Anonymous Coward]

spell chequer

Sorry I got confused there thought I was reading the story about the twatter degreee http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03/31/soshul_meejah_master_of_arts/

Other miss steaks not attributeaible to misunderestmateing the spell chucker:-

No comma after the "Therefore"

two 'to's --> passengers intending to to make their way

Anyone know where I can report a large group of men and wimin weraing wearing noticeable themed clothing, I think I have just spotted a group all weaing the same blue uniform...

Oh! Hang on, I think I see a problem....

Paris, even she can't spell gooder that what I got

[this]

@anthony - no legal basis

This is much better. Control by inconvenience.

[Ken Hagan]

One for the lawyers...

Can the police be prosecuted for a breach of the peace? If they are obstructing the Queen's Highway (or whatever the archaic form of words is) and refuse to disperse, perhaps someone should read the Riot Act to them and then call out the troops.

More seriously, they do seem to be positively *spoiling* for a fight. This can't be healthy.

[Jon Axtell]

Hen/Stag parties

It's common for a group of people to wear the same shirts, have the same logo, and be themed when they are going to a hen or stag do. They will also likely to make a group booking if going by train. Are such groups going to be banned also?

[Frank Seeger]

A title is required

"Any group bookings to London that day/s"

Wow... that's really suspicious. Sherlock couldn't do a better job...

[Christoph]

Very effective propaganda

The police have managed to ensure that the protests are linked to terrorism and violence even if not one single act of violence happens (from the demonstrators of course - there will probably be several such acts by the police).

[Graham Marsden]

You don't have to give your name and address...

... Nor are Police allowed to hassle you or search you *because* you decline to give your name and address.

http://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/issues/6-free-speech/s44-terrorism-act/index.shtml

And download a copy of Mark Thomas's "Don't waste my time" card from here.

http://www.markthomasinfo.com/zzz_images/CIFcard.pdf

Meine Papier? Nein, mein Herr!

[Anonymous Coward]

@One for the lawyers...

"More seriously, they do seem to be positively *spoiling* for a fight. This can't be healthy"

Why do you think they shipped London and other South East coppers up North during the miners strike?

[MinionZero]

ID Papers at civilian checkpoints in the UK? ... what?!

ID Papers please ... What you think its a free country, I'm sorry, this is the UK, we don't accept protesting here. One more word out of you and you're nicked. Stand there, shut up and we will check your ID Papers. Then you will be free to go on your way ... (In other words you are not free now!).

I was born in the UK, but sadly this isn't the same country I was born in.

I would love to have known what someone like Churchill would have made of all of this. If you could have tried to describe all of this to him, I suspect he would have probably thought you were talking about early 1940s Germany.

People in Germany in the early 1930s could see how their country was changing into a police state. They did nothing and then when it was getting to bad, they could do nothing to stop it. ... How long is everyone going to wait this time. (Because it is going to get ever worse, as there is no way to provide oposition to the ones in power and they don't want to listen ... its like a machine without feedback).

[Anonymous Coward]

The Irony

Isn't it ironic that the police recently took a ballot regarding their right to protest (in the form of strike action) whilst at the same time appear to deny all other forms of protest made by the public?

[John Smith]

Choice of name

"Glencoe was the scene of the largest massacre of civilians in British history "

Which either says a lot about the ignorance of history of senior Polic officers or a lot about their hopes for how this event will turn out.

But here's a question. Will the plod be under the scrutiny of the London Police Authority (IE Bozzer Johnson) or her Wackiness the Home Secretary?

[Anonymous Coward]

@ac -What the hell is US English anyway?

It's the better version of UK English; wanker.

[Andy Bright]

I see a big oops coming

Anyone else see the huge flaw in the thinking behind this email? Apart from protesters heading to London, can anyone else tell me which groups of people wearing the same brightly coloured shirts, sporting the same logos, would be "traveling" to London this week?

Let me me tweak your thought process.. which city sports a large number of football clubs and is, coincidentally, also hosting an England home qualifier on Wednesday?

Can you also tell me what the most typical form of transportation is for these groups that often group book their tickets to the capital in advance?

If you want to interfere with train loads of drunken football supporters, be my guest, but you have no one to blame but yourself when it takes a turn for the worse.

[Anonymous Coward]

@How can the police use a law which does not exist?

Who would stop them?

It's like when Keith Vaz seems to know about private telephone calls, or any of them seem to know private info, you suspect that a rozzer has abused a RIPA and handed the info to them, but proving it is another thing entirely. You can't even be sure the RIPA has been recorded properly.

By treating protestors as terrorists, that enables NETCU to misuse a load of nasty anti democracy laws.

[Anonymous Coward]

if they had the two forms of identification

yes, an uzi in one hand and an ak47 in the other...and you thought us stupid 'merkins love our guns too much....ha ha ha ha ha

[Nebulo]

Not entirely surprising though

It's only a week or two since that front page headline in the Guardian that the police were "expecting" violent protest this summer. I can't be the only one who thought "Ah, right, police are *planning* a summer of aggro " - it looks like they're just getting in a bit of early practice.

None of which excuses in the least degree what they're doing, of course, but WTF do they or their bosses care about that. Another nail in the coffin of our free society.

[jai]

noticable themed clothing

like a suit, shirt and tie theme?

there's hundreds like that on my train everyday! they must be some kind of sect - who do i report them too?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm...

I've made a few flippant comments about getting to work tomorrow, throught he protesters, but I really don't want to see the kind of idiots we had to deal with (on both sides) last time.

Coppers holding large groups of people in a street, 'just in case' and protesters against capitalism smashing up John Lewis are two low points that spring to mind.

[Anonymous Coward]

I can see the point of this

They know that groups of people will be travelling to London, so they have asked to be informed if groups of people are travelling to London so that they can know that groups of people are travelling to London. This way they can be fully prepared for what they are prepared for after they have prepared for it, and it only inconveniances the public a little.

[Vic]

so what's the meaning of life?

So this just about kills all aspects of daily life then.

No protest = no whinging.

No matching shirts = no going to the footie with the mates.

No travelling on public transport...but you just told us to get rid of the cars as you said they were warming up the planet and all.

No having a cup of tea at home and watching it all on television...since you need the two forms of ID you left behind there, not realising they wouldn't let you back to get them.

No wearing stuff with matching logos - well, that terroristises everyone from the matching middle class hisnhers, matching-the-kiddies abomination all the way through to our friends from less savoury parts of town with their matching shiny branded 'sports' gear.

Just nuke everybody already, what's the bloody point?

[Anonymous Coward]

two forms

If asked by a person in blue uniform, before complying get them to show you two forms of their id.

It may not be legal, but explain to them that they'll get to their lunch break faster if they do.

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow

Ok so time to scratch the entirety of England off my list of places to hang around for a while when I take my extended vacation. Because it's become blindingly obvious that your government and law enforcement agencies are acting like a couple of seven year old children and simply making up the rules to the game as they go along, then changing the rules they just made up to suite them when they want to.

Freedom of speech, yeah they've heard of it. At some point way back in the day... maybe. Or not, who can tell at this point.

[QrazyQat]

don't you mean...

"At least the Canadians have the good grace to speak and spell properly."

Don't you mean "proprely"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Glencoe ??

Wasn't it the McDonalds who got massacred at Glencoe. Are all those burgers their revenge?

[Danny Thompson]

@Protest is healthy in a functioning democracy

Yes, yes indeed it is. That, sir, is a statement of the bleeding obvious. What is equally obvious is that ours is no longer such a functioning democracy.

Copters, CCTV, collaborators, they're all the same thing.

[Dex]

V for Vendetta?....

Surely a 2 finger salute V icon would be more apt? an "up yours" to those muppets in power

2 forms of ID?....no....I'll use my right to remain silent :D

[Anonymous Coward]

flash mob of protest?

how about a flash mob at one of the checkpoints? get a couple of hundred of us at one checkpoint just refuse to present any id (or have any)... get a few cams see what happens??

whose coming?

[Columbus]

@How can the police use a law which does not exist

Northamptonshire police are helping out - they are masters at " its law coz I say it is.."

mines the one being illegally searched after only being 'detained to confirm I haven't committed any crimes'

[Anonymous Coward]

They want what?

It would be nice if the police upheld the law instead of trying to create it. When you have exceeded their authority to determine when and how residents may get to their homes you no longer serve the public. We still (briefly) have the right to protest in this country. Try and police demonstrations instead of disrupting them.

[Juan Inamillion]

Ahem.

A racist policeman in England who was called into the commandant's office after he kept arresting a man called Winston Ndogo for various reasons, such as:

- looking at me in a funny way;

- being in possession of a loud shirt;

- stepping on the cracks in the pavement;

- being in possession of an offensive wife.

He was of course pronounced a racist and a bigot ... and then promoted to the Special Forces!

Oh wait. That was a comedy sketch in Not the Nine O'Clock News. It wasn't real life, was it...?

[Anonymous Coward]

large groups travelling togetther.

Wearing body armour and with tits on there heads, its either a stag do from Moss Side or 5-0 on the way to dish out some "justice" using the long extendible baton arm of the law.

Paris, brighter than the average plod

[Anonymous Coward]

You know why they call it the "G20"

After the protests and the court case the judge sentences you.

You listen to the sentence and then say: Gee 20 (years)!

[Pete]

Excuse me ossifer?

I was heading to work and saw several corrupt billionaires and politicians, gathering to collude and conspire treasonous schemes...

[Anonymous Coward]

The best thing to do with ...

this kind of miscreant is to completely ignore them. The rest of us normal people going about our normal daily business, should only change a couple of things...

1: Apply a total news blackout... do not listen to, or watch any news or current affairs broadcast for the next few days.

2: Do not buy a newspaper, or read the online versions.

3: If you normally work in this area, do not go anywhere near the Exel Centre... call in sick or book a couple of days off.

4: If you are a member or supporter of some protest group or another... talk a good game on the web etc. but on the day, just sit at home and twiddle your thumbs.

In my humble view this is the best way to react to this sort of agitation by politicians and police... As Margaret Thatcher once said, "do not give them the oxygen of publicity".

[Anonymous Coward]

Once more

I find myself utterly disgusted with the jackboot dominated shithole this country has become. ID to move around your local area? Come on...

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah, ban the chavs!

"Groups of travellers wearing noticeable themed clothing, for example same large logo or coloured shirts etc"

Does this extend to anyone wearing Nike and Ecko clothing!

What about Berghaus and Hackett?

[Ian Moseley]

East End - not

Excel is in Newham which did not become part of London until 1965

[Les Matthew]

Re:Glencoe ??

"Wasn't it the McDonalds who got massacred at Glencoe."

No, it was the MacDonalds.

[Anonymous Coward]

In a related story...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7974794.stm

The police are recommending

"It gives us the chance to reiterate the message that people should always ask for ID, even when dealing with police officers.

"Genuine officers are always glad to show their ID and understand that the public have a right to know exactly who they are dealing with."

So the police will always show us their ID. If they don't I think we have enough grounds to believe they are not genuine. And then either way we can refuse to show them ours :)

[Paul]

@ Great codename

Apparently they're saving Peterloo and My Lai for when Brown cancels the election and declares a state of emergency.

[Anonymous Coward]

Policing via inconvenience

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/feb/09/liberty-central-stop-and-search-police

I wonder how long MetPol could be tied up processing complaints paperwork relating to the consequences of the abovementioned letter? A week? A couple of months? A year or two?

There is, of course, no legal basis to MT's card Stop & Search card, but the police will be able to get on with their job much more easily if they just leave the law-abiding alone.

[Tony]

@AC 19:00

"If asked by a person in blue uniform, before complying get them to show you two forms of their id."

All police constables must carry a warrant (ID) card as proof of identity/authority, and cannot refuse to show it on demand.

For more details http://www.thesite.org/homelawandmoney/law/introuble/whatisawarrantcard

Note that even when they are arresting you, you have the right to request that they display their ID - if they refuse, or just ignore you, then when they read you your rights, you should say in a clear voice "I have requested that you show me your Identity Card and you have refused to do this".

Any lawyer worth his salt can then get any case against you thrown out of court - it is also possible that you may be able to make a claim against the relevant police force (subject to a number of factors). Plus it is likely that the officer in question will be disciplined.

[A J Stiles]

@ AC, rhydian

MS Office and MS Windows have different language, measuring units and paper size settings. Even though you correctly set up Windows for the UK (Queen's English -our -ise, A4 paper, metric measurements, currecy is £, dot as fraction delimiter, DMY, VCR time &c.) Office has its own set of country-specific settings -- and ignores those of Windows. (Or it did last time I had anything to do with it, which was shortly after XP came out.) Office also defaults to US Letter paper, which is only used in *one* country in the world -- everyone else uses A4. This causes many printers to sulk and insist for you to load the "right" size paper, or repeatedly press OK to get one sheet at a time out.

I'm sure there's a historical basis for this, but it's still a PITA. (Or it was last time I had anything to do with it, which was shortly after XP came out. Cue fanboys gleefully pointing out this is no longer the case -- or MS paid shills explaining why this is actually a *good* thing -- in 5 ..... 4 ..... 3 .....)

[Cortland Richmond]

Themed clothing, oh my!

"A troop of Girl Guides was today released from custody after attempting to book train tickets to London during the G20 watch period. The police have offered no apologies..."

All right, fiction. But what delicious fiction!

"... burst into the room and took into custody a group of strangely clothed men wearing leather straps around their arms and foreheads and chanting in a foreign tongue from a script none of the officers could read..."

Orthodox Jews, of course. Sorry! Still fiction!

BTW: Chag Sameach Pesach (and don't tell the Police)

[Wayland Sothcott]

re: No legal basis?

Being unwilling to provide ID is seen as suspicious since if you have nothing to hide...

Getting more stroppy with them gets you arrested, which means fingerprints and DNA on the database. Now you are automatically concidered as a suspected when the police check suspicious finger prints.

You may have noticed that the police swagger around wearing Tazers now. That the humble traffic Warden is now some kind of police officer; Civil Enforcement Officer who can call their collegues the police, for rapid backup.

If you argue with any of these polce types then expect a van with a cage in the back to arrive wwithin minutes.

Heck, even the store detective will attempt to detain you if you refuse to give your name and address when buying a Freeview box.

They are bound to want a TV licence for a computer next. First it will be, do you own a PC? Then it will be that you have to register computer ownership.