We should all just sit quietly in an empty room until it's time for us to work again.
A senior German police official has called for violent videogames to be banned. Heini Schmitt, head of the Hessen branch of the German police union, wants sales of these games to be blocked because, he claimed, “in every situation in which a violent rampage has occurred”, the perpetrator had an “addiction to so-called killer …
Causality fallacy here. These people assume that nutters play violent video games a lot and thus become violent killers. My belief is just the opposite, these people have pre-existing violent tenancies that cause them both to become killers and play the violent video games.
Oh no, he played Counterstrike. I bet he used an office application too. Should we ban word processors because someone who went on a killing spree had spent hours using them?
Clearly someone has decided that the use of a spreadsheet doesn't lead to violence, but yet a game does? (In my experiences the reverse is true - my frustration levels rise trying to figure out how to do tasks in Excel, but playing a bit of an FPS allows me to release my tension in a controlled and safe way)
> “in every situation in which a violent rampage has occurred”, the perpetrator had an “addiction to
> so-called killer games”.
In every situation in which a violent rampage has occurred, the perpetrator had an addiction to oxygen as well. I wonder if Plod is going to call for that to be outlawed...
There's certainly grounds for some investigation into whether or not violent games cause violent behaviour outside the game, but simply deciding that it is so without even a shred of proof is demonstrably foolish.
So everything should be banned then?
Using his logic - “when a chance to remove a probable cause exists, it must be used”
ok so I guess no one should be allowed to drive a car incase they speed...?
I'm so fed up of these people who don't like things and decide they should be banned - am I not allowed to make a mature, informed decision?
The guy that went on the rampage in Germany was addicted to counterstrike - how many people play the game and don't end up going out and shooting people? I be he was into heavy metal too - don't get me started!
My own research shows that it is probable that almost every killer in recent history has shopped in a supermarket and, at one time or another, has been in a motor vehicle. These must be banned immediately as a sensible precaution.
I totally agree that GTA should also be banned. One of the most boring games I have ever witnessed....
I think it's terrible that every time there's a police shooting, there's normally a policeman involved. Now there's no proof that all police are violent thugs that kill innocent people, but surely we should ban all police, because “when a chance to remove a probable cause exists, it must be used”.
While we're at it, every hospital I've seen is full of drugs. Now drugs are bad, mmmkay, and so while there's no proof that hospitals are evil, etc. etc.
STFU until you work out the difference between A implies B and B implies A.
That is all.
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I vote for a disbandment of the police force - 100% of false imprisonments are caused by the police arresting people and therefore to stop this scourge we must rid ourselves of the police force!
Is that the same sort of logic?
I just hope the German Gov. ignore this womble - otherwise back in Blighty our beloved Komrade Gordon Brown (KGB for short) will be following suit within 6 months.
I've been playing "killer" video games since I was five. That's (sadly) 25 years.
Apart from the odd scuffle when I was at school I have yet to get into a single fight, let alone murder anyone.
Video games are now so ubiquitous that it's very likely that nearly every computer-owning male has at least one FPS that the police and media can use to hype their agenda.
Probable cause my heini.
... the only surprise here is that a shop is actually doing something, although banning 18+ rated games probably doesn't cover that many games (fairly sure it would cover counterstrike anyway, not that it should...) films too? that's slightly more surprising.
what isn't surprising are the protests from police chiefs and whoever which are entirely predictable. Find something easy to blame - saves having to do any serious investigation into possible reasons...
"Presumably, Schmitt hasn’t seen 2008's games sales figures for Germany. According to market watcher GfK, the country’s videogame sales topped €695m (£642m/$940). Grand Theft Auto IV was one of the most popular titles."
......... and that could have no bearing whatsoever on his decision to call for a ban?
Get a grip Herr Rozzer.... Surely the urge to play the game is fed from the violent tendancy, not the other way around. And here's a MASSIVE clue. If there are NO GUNS, then NOBODY CAN SHOOT EACH OTHER! Can he explain how massacres have been happening for decades without these here convenient games?
Is this fella suggesting that anyone who plays these games has the tendancy to go crazy ape bonkers and slaughter everyone in sight? to quote on of the smarter of "america's next top models"..... Oh no you di'ent!
Helicopter. cos then you can gun' em all down from the air , BWAHAHAHA!
Another fine example of how these memebers of society have done zero research.
Since the invention of the "violent video games" there has been a dcraese in record incidents of violent crime. Infact if the trend continues the figures sugguest that the only person not playing the game is more likely to be the person commiting the crime.
But then again I could be pointing out that statistics are meaning less as they can be used to support any theory such as bread is evil.
As a German, I strongly demand for a banning of populist politicians with reactionary mindsets trying to exploit drama in an election year. I also demand the banning of short-sighted argumentation contra "killer games". The most unfortunate events around isolated kids losing it do not create the need to render a very valid (if sometimes tasteless) and popular form of entertainment VERBOTEN. The less kids are able to project their aggression into harmless games and sports, the more they will take it to the streets, taking on each other and the general population.
It makes me really, really angry. Forbidders need to be forbidden.
It was later claimed that the killer spent hours playing videogames, including Counter Strike.
I do that as well... but never had an urge to go shoot real people... And I tend to have quite an overactive imagination at the best of times but then I enjoy being disconnected from reality.
Guns don't kill people, people kill people
Videogames don't kill people, people kill people
What's more likely: That violent video games cause people to want to cause violence; or that violent people are drawn towards playing violent video games?
The Galleria Kaufhof have done the right thing to show the absurdity of this proposal: If depicting violence causes violence, then the films have to go. Half the TV shows must go off air: CSI, Law & Order, The Bill, Eastenders, Hollyoaks, House. All contain some form of violence.
This is once again the state attempting to rectify the wrongs of neglient parenting by over-reacting.
Millions of people play so called violent video games EVERYDAY!
One or two nutters go off and shootup a school and suddenly they want all the games banned!
How about Need for Speed encouraging high speed/dangerous driving?
Or the Lego Star Wars convincing people that there is some all powerful force that controls everything - i.e. making heathens of everyone!
Violent movies, violent books, watching the daily news bulletins on BBC?
Nah, let's just blame the games cos that'll get me lots of coverage in the news...
bloke is a complete muppet. the recent shooting that took place in germany the kid so called addictive killer game was COUNTER STRIKE. Stupid bloke needs to clean the streets up instead of wasting his time preaching rubbish he has no idea about. It was bloody counterstrike for gawwwwds sake.
Do these people EVER get the concept of cause and effect? Or of casual relationships between actions? And with nearly all kids playing video games, what are the chances that a given nutcase WOULDN'T have been playing one - even if it had nothing to do with their state of mind?!?!? You may as well ban saurkraut, as I can bet the perp in Germany had eaten that recently before his rampage - and with just as much probable cause in his crime.
Oh my, if only public officials actually had to take a probability course once in their life, maybe we could be spared such restrictions on our liberties...and publically available stupidity.
I hate these people that are in positions of power but can´t add 1 and 1 with out getting 265. How big is the procentage of young males playing violent computer games? 80, 90 % There is a very high proberbility that when a young male is involved in anything he also plays violent computer games. The real problem here seems to be that police officers, politicians and so forth have a problem distinguising between fiction and reality. If violent computer games increased the liklihood that a person acts out violence there would be millions of school shootings. A retail stores leap to ban mature games is just sad. We don´t need Retail chains, private interest groups and so forth "protecting" us.
take everybody who plays violent games and tell me the amount who actually go round shooting people please ??
These people are wrong in the head and a game just isnt going to change that.
I play loads of shooting games or games that basically mean i have to "beat" the other player
I would also love to know how they classify the Addiction ?? they may as well say i am addicted because i play games almost every single evening. But when i am away i dont exactly get cold turkey from not playing.
Hell i could even lose the computer and not play at all
Yeah i'd miss it but addicted !! common thats just a bullshit excuse
All murders that result from domestic discord? All murders done for someone to get their hands on some money?
Before the violent video game, we had toy guns, and these were supposed to make maddened killers of children and adults with impressionable minds. Discouraging the plastic Uzi at ToysRus certainly led to a drop in violence and murders... um, not.
Until we find out via valid research that violent videos are the cause or enhancer of violent feelings, rather than, say, being a symptom of violent feelings that would have erupted anyway, I wouldn't rush out to lock the barn doors.
Everyone knows that chess is simply stylized warfare and teaches basic principles of mass murder. (rolling eyes)
"Probable cause"? "no proof of connection"? Mistaking the order of cart and horse are we?
Today video games. Tomorrow role playing games. The day after that board games like chess.
A slippery slope indeed when greased by idiocy.
So, person who wants to kill in reality plays games that allow him to kill virtual people. Wow, major shocker!
Could you imagine if all games that portray violence were banned? the entire games industry would basically collapse.
Y'know, it makes me wonder why people killed each other before computer games were invented.
This police union leader should be sacked for stupidity - IM <not so very> HO.
Why is it that every time there's a shooting, knifing, or other violent incident, computer games get the blame? (That is a rhetorical question, btw.)
No-one ever asks about the video gaming habits of anyone who does something heroic. What would happen if it were revealed that firemen play 'GTA', surgeons play 'Counter Strike' or the pilot that landed his plane on the Hudson plays 'Postal' to relax?
Just a thought.
Heini Schmitt, head of the Hessen branch of the German police union, wants sales of these sandwiches and crisps and other digestible foodstuffs to be blocked because, he claimed, “in every situation in which a violent rampage has occurred”, the perpetrator had a "meal sometime beforehand”.
Get cause and effect sorted, halfwit.
"when a chance to remove a probable cause exists, it must be used" ...even when he says it isn't a probable cause.
Twat. Violent people playing violent games is NOT the same as people playing violent games and becoming violent.
FUCK, I'd kick his teeth in if I wasn't so busy playing Gears of War 2
You know, before Games were Cool For Kids with ++ Violence (is he bleeding? at 340x280, I cant tell so much) we blamed the mass murderers and psychopaths squarely on Quentin Tarantino, and this 'mad obsession' with watching his movies.
Simple truth; if you're crazy, you'll find an outlet for it. games are relatively cheap, easy access, simple gratification outlets. you take them away, and all of a sudden the crazies arent gonna sober up and lead a nice, normal abiding life. You cant blame Dahmer or the Wests or Moira on violent videogames, but they still happened. The Yorkshire ripper was clearly influenced by frogger though, so you know, I'll leave him out.*
You take away guns from nutters and you ended up with that dude who ran amok naked in a church with a fake samurai sword around the time of the dunblaine ban. you cant stop crazy, and the sooner these ban-everything-munters accept that, the better.
Of course, theres always the possibility that this is a political thing. you ban violent videogames, you can claim you're actually doing something to stop the crazy, you take away guns, you're stopping the crazy, no more violent pornography = we're stopping the crazy, dear voters.
and we'll roll back into another couple of decades of SSDD, only without an easy scapegoat. perhaps we'll go back to calling them 5th column sympathisers, eh?
Tech icon, because 99% of voters cant understand historical precedent.
*yeah, Im not sure if its timeline applicable. bite me.
“in every situation in which a violent rampage has occurred”, the perpetrator had an “addiction to so-called killer games”.
So what console did Genghis Khan own? Or did he just spend all his time playing GTA: Mongol?
Stop sign: Because even on horseback you race through them.
More stupid rubbish from someone trying to look like hes acting after a tragedy rather than really doing anything which will work. It seems no one is willing to accept the fact that perhaps some kids become messed up through their natural experiences in life and just will take actions we think are abhorent due to this. There isnt always an answer or reason, humans have been violent for thousands of years and yes, our evolution seems to be taking us away from that now but in reality its not that long ago violence was an every day part of the human races existance. Some people simply will still become violent and people need to accept that and deal with it.
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...they all drank milk, too! Every one of those sick school shooters was drinking milk on a REGULAR BASIS!
Are we really going to let this scourge of milk destroy our society!? I mean, there's no proof - but you can't prove that milk DIDN'T cause the shootings, so we must be on the safe side! Down with milk!
Maybe it made perfect sense when it was phrased in German.
When translated to English, this proposal appears as a classic case of flawed logic.
Since every serial killer known to date has had parents, I propose that we ban parenthood.
This only serves to confirms the existing prejudice against people involved in law enforcement.
The world would probably also be better off without candy, cigarettes and alcohol, all of which are costing the health system millions and make people lives shorter. It's not a valid argument.
Banning stuff often just pushes it underground, making it more difficult to see the big picture.
Mass murderers have existed before first person shooters as well, so the blanket statement about all incidents involving these kind of games is simply not true. It's not the video game that causes the killer instinct, rather it's the killer instinct that may cause such a choice in video games.
This is more prevalent due to computers becoming so pervasive in the household and most teenagers having access to them to play such games, which makes these combined occurrences more probable.
Secondly, these violent video games can actually act as a release of propped up feelings and may actually reduce the violence in real life. It's more likely that when the game seizes to help that a person without a proper support system may go for such deplorable acts.
Thirdly, a violent video game as an object is less likely to cause major injury than a loaded gun.
Parents unwittingly giving their kids access to lethal ranged weapons are a bigger concern in my eyes. Weapons should not be easily accessible - a locked cabinet should not have the key lying under the rug as it were.
Safety starts at home, not in the entertainment industry.
While the recent shooting in Winnenden was horrific (my heart really does go out to all those affected) this is just typical, knee-jerk, finger-pointing rubbish. Society NEEDS someone to blame, so let's blame...erm... Pop music! No, that's too 1970's. How about horror films! Nope - blamed them in the 80's. Ooh! Violent video games. We did well blaming THOSE in the 90's. Perhaps we can eake a little more milage out of that bandwagon. Perfect!
The fact is Tim Kretschmer played video games. Particularly Counter Strike, by all accounts. He also ate food, wore clothes and brushed his teeth. Every day! He was also pretty good at table tennis. Played it all the time. Apparently he was pretty damn good. But table tennis is completely incapable of turning normal, smart kids into murderers.
Unfortunately video games will continue to get the blame for this type of activity because those pointing the finger simply don't understand the concept of video games. But we need not worry. Money talks, and as long as the 'violent' video game industry hauls in 9-figure dollar values NOBODY in 'proper' authority will want to stop them.
Sad, sad day.
Funnily enough, whenever I feel a strong urge to shoot some Germans I dig out my copy of return to castle wolfenstein for a bit.
I can't guarantee that banning 'killer games' would lead to me (or anyone else with similar urges) heading off to Germany with a rifle but when a chance to remove a probable cause exists, it must be used. Therefore we surely must ban video game bans.
Joke alert just in case Big Brother is watching and the swat team are just around the corner.
Counterstrike isn't that violent, really. All you can do is shoot, stab and blow people up.
My warlock in World Of Warcraft will set you on fire, inflict terrible diseases on you, summon a demon to whip you and then suck your soul out before robbing you and finally feasting on your corpse.
How odd that we don't see hordes of kids running round the streets doing that all the time...
“in every situation in which a violent rampage has occurred”, the perpetrator had an “addiction to so-called killer games”. - quote from article.
Errr....sorry but that's not true is it!
The Virginia Tech murderer didn't play games but had severe mental health issues, issues that were not followed up by medical professionals and have been largely ignored by the press.
There is no real hard evidence that proves that violent games make people do these horrible rampages. People who do this sort of thing have mental health issues because rational people wouldn't dream of doing things like this.
I suppose some of my argument would go back to my comment of the government advisor calls for violent video game tax article.
"Games such as GTA, Saints Row, Manhunt, FEAR 2 are all 18 certificate games so why do some parents think this is OK for their kids? The mind simply boggles where these people are concerned.
Parents need to educate themselves to the kinds of games their kids are playing. If they find their kids are playing games they shouldn't be then it's time for good old discipline to say hello. If parents want to educate themselves there are gaming sites out there that cater for parents and have a full breakdown of the games content. Is it that hard to use a search engine?
Education is only part of it, parents also need to be involved with their kids game playing. Don't just give them a console, a TV and let them sit in their rooms put the thing in a family room where they can be kept an eye on. Even play games with them." - quote from my comments.
The last time I went clay pigeon shooting, I was really confused. The shotgun didn't come with a mouse, so I didn't know how to move it. And then I couldn't find the "R" key to reload it. I spent a long time looking for the "G" key so I could drop the now empty shotgun, but it just didn't work.
All these crazed gunmen allegedly inspired by games... Why do they always shoot themselves? What game is that in? Which game is it that after you have defeated the 600 badguys, you hide in a corner and blow your brains out?
...why my life has been so different since I've become hopelessly addicted to playing Leisure Suit Larry. I shake my, errm, fist at the evils of video game makers!
I wonder what Heir Holmes (Sherlock, not John) has noted is the ultimate effect on human behaviour of World of Warcraft addiction? Gold fetish? Dwarfism? Pointy ears? Somebody must ask him!
Paris, as she displays all of the classic characteristics of a Pong addict.
I'm assuming he will next requre anyone who plays 18+ video games to start wearing some sort of sign in public.... you know... so people can identify who is and isn't a dirty filthy gamer....
I'd love to see what killers were doing in their spare time to send them nuts before consoles were around... reading I bet... or masturbating.... we should ban/burn all books and/or those who have enjoyed their own company sometimes too... think of the greater good!
it's the same shit every week... and it's starting to wind me up...
I must be locked up immediatly, over the last 35 years I have killed millions, it all started with an invadling space alien, then I was hooked, ghosts, zombies, soldiers of all races and creeds, no one has been shown mercy, I stormed across europe, I zerged across the known universe, I have ravaged Azeroth, i killed all of the desciples of Nod, and then joined them and killed all my former allies. Any minute now this will have the undeniable effect and I will go insane in the office, kill all my colleagues and possible fart in the boardroom.
FFS, what is it with these morons.
As usual this is somebody who can't work out the difference between a correlation with a cause and affect. That is people prone to violence could well be drawn to violent games. However, that does not mean that playing violent games causes them to become violent in the first place.
That said, people who spend their time play acting shooting other people are a long way up the sad delusional escapist scale. But that doesn't mean they are going to progress to really killing people...
I'm surprised that none of you have picked up on the ultimate answer:
Something all criminals have in common is that they were alive.
Make life a crime, Sentence is death. All other crime disappears and eventually we have nice quiet orderly streets, no mass killings, knifings, drug use or people buying nasty video games.
Simple extention of all the "ban this=stop that" stupidity.
2000AD have been saying this for years...
Jobs - the closest we have to Judge Death...
The probable cause is that the parents were allowed to have kid(s) in the first place. Either they should have been neutered, or the Germans should have intituted a better breeding program. Oh, wait; that's didn't go too well either...
Well, after a week of wrestling with the idiocy of Excel 2007, I'm quite up for a bit of the old mindless violence as far as the Microsoft Office developer team are concerned!
Anyway, this kid was supposedly a champion ping-pong player (so much for him having no social outlets and supposedly being a hide-in-his-mummy's-basement-unsporty geek), does that mean the Germans want to ban that too?
Hold on a sec - I used to play ping-pong quite well (and tennis, basketball and football, amongst others)... I've played "violent" videogames.... and I have FIRED A GUN!!!! Cr*p! Run for your lives, I'm a rampage just waiting to happen!!!
I know some people must have already say it before but it must be say again...
Many people blame computer games for the dead of few people. Even if the killer played a violent games I don't think we should be baning them. Why? Because if it's really linked what game did history top Mass Murderer played to become what they became? What game did Hitler, Satlin, Truman, Khan and the others played so much too make them turn like that....
Anyway unless the game force us to do it, I am not buying this bullshit about game making people kill some else... I have play game for the last 20 years and I never fell the urge to butched some one or to rape or any other bullshit.... People are juste to lazy to really find what is wrong and are just blaming anything they can...
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