Lucky Mancs could get ID cards first, Jacqui declares Wacky Jacqui Smith continues to believe her own increasingly insane press releases on ID cards. Yesterday she told the people of Manchester that they might be lucky enough to get their hands on ID cards earlier than the rest of the country. The Home Office is looking for "beacon areas" to further trial the cards from autumn …
"people can't wait for ID cards" something's fishy here, right?
Looking to other countries across Europe there really isn't an issue having ID cards. They're widely accepted and probably no one feels threatened by them. But then again, I'm haunted by the feeling that in the UK "they" want the ID cards for all the wrong reason. Please, someone tell me, why is that?
EA
wont be happy till I see people cutting them up infront of council offices alot like poll tax bills were once burnt.
Course, we may be far more sappy now days and just roll over and suck some New Lab pole becouse we're so scared of illegal immigrant, gun totting, alcholic, drug dealing, identity stealing, peado, terrorists.
To be honest I wont be happy till I see Jaqui and her puritain NeoGov comrades burnt in the fires of their own damnation.
Bang go my semi-regular Saturday night visits to Manchester for Jilly's Rock World. I get stopped and hassled quite enough by the Mancunian Plod as it is* without them dragging me off because I don't have a WackyCard, and therefore must be a terryrist**.
The only thing I can't wait for is to be rid of this lot. We need to learn something about civil disorder from the French and Italians, because the gov don't seem to understand that they are headed by the most despised people in the country, and we're fed up of their bullshit and draconianism.
*long hair, leathers. I thought the police stopped hassling metalheads in favour of gangsta rappers years ago, but they seem to make an exception for me...
** Asian missus and I have a beard. Nuff said, just ignore the fact that I'm usually arseholed at this time and chainsmoking, and Islam forbids beer & fags.
LLast time I checked you didn't need an identity card to open a bank account, or to travel to Europe, or to rent a flat. A passport would cover all three.
With the intelligence services saying that about 80 arrests was all that was needed to almost eliminate the threat from terrorists in the UK, what level of infringement of liberties to the whole 60 million population is justified to continue Labour's reign of fear?
Bottom line is this:
They preserve their position by giving people something to be frightened of, and nurture that fear - terrorism - and anyone is branded a terrorist if they don't agree with the party - even long time activists of the party who are appalled at the way it is being subverted.
They create a panic over an issue and then quote invalid statistics to back up the draconian methods they introduce to clamp down on what is basically a non-event - knife crime.
They continue to over legislate, introduce such diverse and complicated laws that no one but a legal professional can be expected to know if they are breaking the law or not, with ambiguous and knee-jerk reactions being trotted out to maintain the image that they are actually doing something. They measure activity, not results.
They squander the nation's wealth, placing your children, and your children's children in hock for the rest of their lives - they make the errors, they buy votes, and we have to pay for it.
In 1984 at the The Party had the dignity to admit that it acquired power for the sake of power. It should be a warning, not a "how-to" manual.
I'm ashamed and appalled that Jacqui Smith represents a constituency close to where I was born, that the people who live where I was born are prepared to support someone who pushes down on liberty and democracy in such a manner, and doesn't have the honour and dignity to accept that she is culpable for her ways.
As a good friend of mine once said, I'd rather risk a bomb than be a fascist.
I hope Manchester, traditionally a labour stronghold, stands up to the government on this issue, though I think it unlikely that they will risk another referendum after the congestion charge imposition was so roundly rejected by the people who live there.
I am quite sure the inhabitants will be rushing up to you in the street to let you know how they can't wait for you to force ID cards on them.
Nice to know, too, that times have changed since you couldn't walk around Peckham without a police escort, never mind south Manchester.
Paris, because it's a town on Mars near to the capital city, Wibble.
Basically because the ID card system that is being proposed in the UK is tied to biometric ID, which has been proved to not work. It will be a gloriously expensive system of little use, the government have not managed to come up with any justification for the introduction of the system that hasn't been rubbished straight away. The system will create a single point of attack for anyone wanting to make fake ID, because it will be the 'gold standard'. The government propose to charge any companies who wish to (and by wish to, read 'are mandated to, by the government') check an ID. We already have a perfectly good system of IDs. Furthermore they want to charge us something like £90 for the privilige of the card for which most people will have to travel a fair distance to attend an interview.
Add to this the woefull performance of the government with respect to data security and our traditional rights to freedom of association and that would seem to make a pretty good case against.
I've probably missed a few key points, but that should be enough to be going on with...
I live in Manchester I don't want to wait until 2012 to see ID cards rolled out, I want to wait a lot longer. preferably long enough for the current government to be voted out and for someone else to come in and ditch the cards.
I managed to open a bank account, rent a flat and travel to europe without the benefit for an ID card years ago so I'm struggling to see that reasoning.
I don't necessarily object to the concept of ID cards, but I've not yet heard a good reason for us to introduce ours...
You could open a bank account, travel the world, rent a flat all without ID cards.
This woman is just making things up, and omitting all the people who are telling her ID cards are a very bad idea. It is scandalous really, and the definition of corruption.
They will be out soon, but I do hope they have to pay for their wastage of the country's money personally.
@Evil Auditor
My personal objection to ID cards isn't the cards themselves, after all, I have a driving license that functions perfectly adequately as one.
One of my problems is the requirement to have or carry one, at my expense (one way or another, direct or taxes).
Secondly, the massive database that the cards will be linked to will be accessible by tens of thousands of civil servants. Yes there will be protection mechanisms in place, but anyone who thinks that it won't be abused needs to check out the number of cases of police staff (cops or civilian) abusing access to the PNC. The PNC only holds your criminal records and other crime related data, the national ID database will hold an extraordinary amount of personal data from all aspects of your life.
I also have issue with the image being put forward by the government that the whole thing is going to be "perfect" and un-forgeable. This increases the value of forging/hacking or otherwise manipulating the cards to the point where someone *will* crack it, it'll become valuable enough to warrant significant investment by the criminal world.
Then there is the significant cost, many billions of pounds, for something whose benefits have been significantly exaggerated (does anyone really think it will stop a terrorist?).
So, in a sense I don't have a problem with the fundamental idea of ID cards as they exist in many other countries, it's the UK version that I have a problem.
Paul
she said: "I regularly have people coming up to me and saying they don't want to wait that long."
this group seems to be fairly self-selective, as anyone who would approach wacky with the idea that they *aren't* a good idea would most likely be held for 42days at Her Majesties pleasure before getting the chance to punch her in the mouth.
doesn't even *begin* to describe this woman's barking-madness is she actually believes anyone with an IQ above that of a brain-damaged gerbil would think having their intimate details on this Orwellian Stasibase is a good idea.
Which is why she only talks about ID cards and not the highly intrusive and unnecessary database that is behind them.
Thank you for your answers!
Well, it was more a kind of rhetorical question. I, for my part, wouldn't mind the massive db if it was me who was in command and control of the data. And of course, I would misuse my power on any occasion, night and day all year round.
There is not much which makes me believe that others would act differently. And my confidence in the government isn't that great. After all, they didn't miss many occasion to show that they are either unable or reluctant or both to handle private data with due care.
EA
I agree that the current government not only scares me, but disappoints me very much. I've always been a Labour supporter since I could vote, but the last 8 years have been, shall we say, "difficult". The problem is this, while it's clear that they are completely insane with power, of all the people available, I still think that big Gord has the best chance of salvaging the economy. While I wish they had a chance of getting in, the Lib Dems are, as usual, out of the picture. That leaves Cameron's blue brigade. I don't have any faith in Tory economics at all, and while it seems the Mr. Brown isn't doing particularly well at the moment, I can only imagine how exponentially worse the Tories would be. In terms of privacy, I can't see there being much difference, they'll just transfer the fear of terrorism directly to fear of immigrants, asylum seekers, and kids, and use it to their own ends. The policies they come up with are useless because they don't actually have any firm convictions, just reactions to whatever is in the Daily Mail at that particular point in time. That, for me, is even more worrying than an ID card scheme that will end up getting shelved because the public, police, and a large section of the government all hate it.
"A passport would cover all three."
Or, far more wallet-friendly, a driving license. I think you'll find that rather more people have one than a passport too. Photo-ID ones have been out for some time now.
Of course, the *real* problem that they're trying to address is that not everyone has a passport and/or a driving license. Take away the compulsory aspect of ID cards and the whole thing becomes a white elephant to everyone, including the government. From this, it's fairly easy to see that any politician trotting out the official noncommital waffle on whether or not they want them compulsory is an out-and-out barefaced liar*.
*Presumably Wacky Jaqui wears asbestos pants as she hasn't burst into flames in public yet.
I love Jacqui comment that the ID card will allow us to open a bank account, rent a flat and travel to Europe for the first time.... of course so far we are all living under bridges with spare change and never go further than the kebab shop!
Paris because Gordon "Government nightmare"......
"shell-suited scrotes of southern Manchester"
That's the same South Manchester that has Hale, Hale Barns, Timperly, Knutsford, Marple, Wilmslow etc then - hardly chav-ville what with all the footballers' wives
* "Some of us can't wait for the cards, you can't refuse to have one until they are made available."
QFTW!
i have a problem with being forced to pay to have an id card that i must own, if it's optional then fair enough i understand paying for it, but if it's mandatory that everyone must own one, then charging for the privelidge as well is just taking the piss.
not only that, you wil have to pay to update your details, not a problem for all, but if you live in rented accomodation you could potentially move every 6 months.
The worst part of this, is that contrary to all other laws regarding informational accuracy, this database and it's specially written laws, somehow make you liable if the data held on you is wrong. Unlike accepted practice, ie the DPA, which is to make the owner the database responsible for keeping the data in it accurate and up to date!
There's a reason she's using those three examples (she could also have added "get a job"): the Labour government have been requiring you to present identification to prove you have a right to reside and work in the UK for a while now. So she can now simply say, "Oh look, this ID card solves the problem of all the other identification you would otherwise have to supply". it's not a long step from there to requiring you - under law - to present your ID card to the bank/landlord/employer before you can open an account, rent a flat or work. Of course, given Labour's definition of "voluntary", it'll still be a voluntary card - you just won't be able to function in society without it. "Voluntary Entitlement Card" anyone?
The comparison is with Thatcher's notorious self-deception of "You WILL like the poll tax".
The reason Mancunians will be "lucky" to get ID cards PDQ, is because they were so damn bloody "unlucky" not to get the nu labour hand-out for a city-wide congestion charge. They were "unlucky" because they voted overwhelmingly against it. (Edinburghers will not be as "lucky" as Mancunians, despite also having voted against a congestion charge, because nu labour don't have the run of Scotland as they do of England - "unlucky" them). This is one whole kinky politics.
This is the lesson from the vicious Red Witch of Redditch, not also known as Citizen Smith - you must not bite the hand that feeds. You WILL lick the hand that feeds - Licky Licky Licky. This is one whole kinky politician.
"I still think that big Gord has the best chance of salvaging the economy."
ROFL
Who the hell do you think sold all our gold (at the cheapest price he could get for it), spent all the countries savings, and then pension funds when he ran out of savings, and got the country into more debt that it has been in for donkeys of years.....
"big Gord's" policies have also encouraged the populace to get into record debt levels that are not sustainable in the long term no matter how much people wish they were, your average student now leaves university with £20,000 debt.
We have been changed from a nation of savers to a nation of debt whores!!!
So what is the solution to all of this? I know reduce VAT to 15% to encourage people to spend more money and get into yet more debt and borrow a shed load more money to piss up the wall..... Good one "big Gord" you most definetly are the "saviour of the economy"
Mines the one with the mostly complete emmigration papers in the pocket.....
<offtopic>
You clearly aren't from t'North. That would be scousers from Liverpool. Mancs are a completely different type of person (swagger, accent, etc.).
Ah - I remember Manchester. Lots of "our kid this..."
Here's a B3TA flash video (NSFW - lots of swearing) about vikings at a kebab shop in Rusholme...
http://www.rathergood.com/val_halal
Getting back on-topic how is the ID card going to work? The security infrastructure required probably isn't in place. Are card bureau's lined up to produce cards. Having worked on ID card projects in the past - giving these to young children/teens will resort in a huge return rate on damaged cards (using them to scrape ice of windows etc).
I would have much preferred how they do it in Sweden where the ID card is from your bank (i.e. the picture printed on the credit/debit card) along with occupation and where. They have a huge security infrastructure and the ID card applicaiton (if its a JCOP/Java Card) just needs to be placed alongside the other applications such as Visa Chip and Pin.
You can't even fly from London to Manchester without a passport, and former colleagues of mine from Spain who could fly to France and Germany with just their national ID cards needed a passport to fly to U.K.. I very much doubt this government will suddenly relax restrictions if we all have ID cards, so that blows that argument for having them out of the water.
I don't particularly have a problem with ID cards, so long as I don't have to carry it around with me, don't have to show it to anyone and don't have to pay for it.
I'd just lock it away along with my passport, driving license, EHIC, Birth Certificate etc....
The thing that I don't get about ID cards is they are supposed to help in the fight against identity theft and terrorism. Surely the Government and others could help in that by keeping our personal data secure. As for terrorists, it seems to me that they wouldn't bother too much, since they seem to like posting videos on the internet advertising exactly what they've done.
"I think you'll find the residents of Knutsford, Wilmslow etc all swear blind they live in Cheshire."
As do people from Stockport, check all our postal address'... doesn't mean people don't class us as south manchester
"Chav is a class thing, not a money thing. Footballers' wives *are* chavs." Wrong - it's neither class or money, it's a knob thing. I grew up in a typical chav area, yet I've never been one, and I hate them with a passion... nope, what we call Chav now is a fashion/gang thing ... they just like to use class as a way to justify them being complete wankers to everybody else... unfortunately they seem to be spreading... we also call them Scallies here.... didn't even hear the word chav until like 2005 when I moved down south for a bit...
Paris- because that's the level of sluttiness all scally girls attempt to reach, but few do...
I quote:
Then, the creepy bit was the new threats that the government has uncovered:
"And it will provide us with the reassurance we need that others who occupy positions of trust in our society are who they say they are as well."
I had never thought about this one; but, the minister is right, up until 1997 we all thought that Labour governments were composed of left wingers, how foolish we all were!
http://cipfapin.blogspot.com/
What really is everyones problem with carrying an id card?
Please dont spout some bollocks about human rights and infringing your personal space, the fact of the matter is that some people just want to be heard, which is fine, if they have anything constructive or decent to say.
It appears to me that the majority of the comments posted on this forum make no sense and are hate fulled rantings of a disconcerted few, sort yourselves out and get a valid opinion!
The id card idea has been banded around for many years and not a brand new brainwave from the government, so all the villified nonsense aimed at the current incumbents is hot air aimed in the wrong direction.
The criminal fraternity (a minority of the country) and the terrorist organisation will hate the fact that carrying an id card may 'identify' them, but it may reduce crime and terrorist activity, think about it, if a member of your family is injured (or worse) by a criminal or a terrorist, willyou be the first ot bleat about the unfairness of it all............of course you will because that is the way some of you are structured, shallow and almost transparent. You are the sort of people that hate 'authority' in any way shape or form, but soon call on the appropriate service when disaster hits your life (disaster being an exageration as many feel the world evolves around then and demand instant help when they start bleating).
Carrying a small card with your name on it and a few details may save someones life, it may stop horrendous things happening, it may encourage people to behave in public and then others willnot be afraid to go out, it may stop idiots carrying knives and killing innocent people on the way to visit their newborn child..........it may not , but what harm would it do,what have you all got to hide?
Think about it
"No Socialist Government conducting the entire life and industry of the country could afford to allow free, sharp, or violently-worded expressions of public discontent. They would have to fall back on some form of Gestapo...Socialist policy is abhorrent to British ideas of freedom...there can be no doubt that socialism is inseparably interwoven with totalitarianism."
Churchill 1945, talking about the possibility of an Attlee led Labour government.
If they (The Government) can explain logically how exactly ID cards will stop a terrorist from blowing himself up in a public place then I might accept the need for them.
However, as far as I can see, foisting ID cards on law abiding citizens will not work, unless they propose to have checkpoints everywhere to check your card reminiscent of Nazi Germany.
It's time 'New' Labour got stuffed and jumped off a sodding cliff. :-) Now that would be worth seeing...
No it wont, never has, never will, just gives the government a vast database of your details in one central location so they find it easier to extort money from you. Funny thing is you rarely know who is a terrorist until they've commited an act of terror, and if you do know who a terrorist is then they're normally already being watched. An ID card is no help at all and only reassures the imbicile.
Infact the ID card is a wonderful tool for Government, if you need it to open bank accounts, get jobs, use transport, get medical aid, you shall have to provide it, its use shall be noted on a database, so the powers that be can create an ever greater and more detailed image of you as a number in their system(the system being the country.)
Most people, as you may note, already carry plenty of things that identify them if they are questioned by police, if the police are suspicious they have ample power to arrest.
The ID card steals our freedom to move without the eye of government watching our every move whilst giving us nothing more then we already have, and also most likely making life easier for a terrorist who has forged identity documents.
You're the kind of person who saps from the milk teet of Government regardless of the flavour.
But no it doesn't really matter to me, the card will have no effect on me once made mandatory, other then being yet another stolen freedom, not that we really had any in the first place. Terrorists will be reinforced by dissafected youths who feel targeted by the state, street violence shall intensify as more money is drained from youth programs and channeled into ever more databases. Many more people will die from both forms of violence, but those numbers will still pale in comparison to the number of people that die in car accidents.
But at least you'll feel a bit safer, even though you'll be far far far from it.
Problem "Course, we may be far more sappy now days and just roll over and suck some New Lab pole becouse we're so scared of illegal immigrant, gun totting, alcholic, drug dealing, identity stealing, peado, terrorists."
Reaction "The government does not even know how many gun toting, identity stealing, paedo, illegal imigrant terrorists are in the country"
Solution "People can't wait to get an ID card"
It's in my pocket next to my knife.
I wonder if Wacky Jacqui's own personal details will be stored on the database she promotes so lovingly...
Having worked in IT and had contact with goverment IT staff and 'security' specialists for some time, I can't wait for the day this system is hacked, her personal details splattered all over the web and this farsical scheme to blow up in her irritating, wacky face. And it will. Just look at the goverments track record for protecting sensitive information in the past 12 months alone.
And I for one can't wait until ID cards are introduced. Being a Manchester resident, I look forward with glee to the day I can rip up the official order to get myself a card into tiny little pieces, and ceremoniously piss on said pieces in front of Parliament.
I live in Manchester and refuse to pay for something that will hold a lot of my personal information on it. I have a driving licence i do not need anything more for p[roof of identity.
The cards if they are making them compulsory have to be free of charge, free of personal information all that is needed is name photo date of birth address nothing more.
Then I still would refuse to pay for this a passport is all that is needed for proof.
This will be another black mark against the Looney labour policies, and people called Maggie Thatcher for the poll tax this is much worse.
Give Looney labour enough rope they will hang themselves with these policies.
Hang on the person in charge isn't even the democratic elected leader is a stand in too scared to have an election.
Paranoia, power hungry mindless leadership continues watch this space there is more to come.
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