Ubuntu 8.10 - All Hail new Network Manager Canonical, the developers behind Ubuntu Linux have release Intrepid Ibex, the successor to last spring's Hardy Heron release. Ibex isn't a long-term support release - which might put off some large organizations - but for Ubuntu desktop fans, version 8.10 makes a worthwhile upgrade. If you made the leap to Ubuntu 8.10 when it …
The upgrade is all very well, only the new network manager is basically undocumented, and crashes precisely every second invocation for me, which means I can't use it; the new kernel won't suspend and resume on my laptop; and the new configurationless X.org has some serious problems, not least of which that the keyboard and mouse configuration preference applets no longer work (again, at least for me) so that I can't set the keyboard auto-repeat rates or mouse acceleration, without first restoring my X.org configuration file, and adding a magic "please don't autoconfigure" commmand.
So in sum, I had to reinstall the Hardy kernel, I can't use the new network manager, and I can't use X.org without configuration, which adds up to oh well, at least I get fixes to lots of bugs that I filed over the last six months.
I had already been recommending non-technical users I know to stick with Hardy, as it works well, and is sufficiently up-to-date for most general use purposes. This only makes me wonder if I should have taken my own advice.
If you think it's a strong update you haven't seen the bug reports due to regressions.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/277432
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gajim/+bug/291174
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-mount/+bug/293062
Each of these are problems that were introduced by the 8.10 release.
That'll be like losing an old friend :(
What happens when you muck about with the graphics drivers and the gui won't load? Do you have to go to an auto-configured xorg?
Oh I'm so confused, the new things look good, but losing xorg.conf? I don't know if I should upgrade...
Oh wait I'll just try it on a live CD, problem solved :p
I'm puzzled. When I upgraded to 8.10(beta) I had all sorts of hassles with my X11 conf. I had to shift my old one out the way and redo it in small steps before I had a working system (mostly because the X11 driver that used to be called "i810" is now called "intel").
My new xorg.conf is a lot shorter (due to the automatic device detection), but it's still there, it's still functional, and I can still tweak...
Hm, i don't know if gimp will be a more useful upgrade than openoffice. I'm going to 'convert' my wife's laptop from winxp to linux and one thing she'll want to do is open docx files. She won't know the difference between the old and new version of the gimp and probably won't miss the improvements.
With the last version of Ubuntu I fought for hours to get it to give me video in something other than 800x600@60Hz on an older machine. Somehow there was another software conflict that kept the "autofind the right video config" from actually saving the updated file - so it would keep wiping itself out. Strangely enough that other distros came up out of the box and worked.
I came from the old days of loading X and then hand-configuring a config file to get any sort of picture at all. The whole time that I was struggling I kept feeling that it would have been easier AND faster to do it the old way.
Ubuntu is promising. But like everything else making some things easier may make it harder to do other things.
Network Manager had some issues which took some shine off Hardy, for example it was prone to forgetting WPA passwords, forcing you to re-enter the password each time - a major annoyance, it drove my girlfriend back to Windows as default on her dual boot laptop. I don't know if they've fixed that in 8.10.
Ubuntu 8.10 definitely hasn't fixed the problem with automatic login - if you enable it, NM asks for the default keyring password at every boot, which sort of defeats the object of automatic logon...
That said, I still love Ubuntu!
Gotta try it. Thank Linux for Live CDs! :-)
I kinda like the "dark theme", at least from that picture. Have to try it in regular use to see how it goes.
Now, as mentioned before byothers, no xorg.conf there? Life won't be as easy in those moments when X won't start because you changed something, and knew exactly where to go using the CLI to change xorg.conf to go to a different resolution and/or color depth that was safe to load the GUI. I wonder why they removed it, must have had a reason. Because it's not like it makes life harder for the users who have no clue about CLI -- they won't see xorg.conf anyway. And it will make life harder for the more advanced folks, who CAN use the config files.
Anyway, the author made me curious there: why the hell is GIMP 2.6 a more important update? I was waiting for the info but it never came! What's special about it compared to the 2.4.6 I have right now? (it will change very quickly though, hehe)
@Phil the Geek
It's to do with the fact if you don't login and use the auto login option then your password is not entered to unlock your keychain. A work around is to have a blank keychain - although this is not secure and not recommended.
I wish this would be resolved as right now this is an area where Windows still beats Ubuntu - ease of use with regards to wireless configuration. The new network manager is an improvement but there's a good bit more development and refining needed.
Installed the full OS today on two separate machines. One with no CDROM drive, via a USB flash drive, both installs were very painless, all hardware seems to be working well and no crashes as yet. One is a dual core Intel and the other is a dual core AMD, both have the AMD64 version installed from a USB flash with the alternate AMD64 iso on it.
Overall the impression is good, Nvidia driver problems I encountered all the way through the Beta stage now seem to have gone and the graphics drivers install faultlessly.
Ummm. autologin should not even be something that is available as a feature, it's kind of like leaving the keys in door to your home along with a note to tell them how to disable the alarm. What Golgafrincham thought this was a good idea?
Gareth: You're confusing the X server with the desktop environment. X is just the underlying layer, it's the windows managers that make it all nice and pretty.
I've never been able to do anything useful with it.
Simple stuff, create a text button - how??
It's no surprise that the one app people want to see ported is Paint .Net - it just works and you don't need to have studied how graphics are created at degree level, you just start using it.
Never got anything out of gimp, apart from one time I wanted to resize some jpegs.
Never been able to create anything from scratch using it. Maybe I lack patience. Or maybe I'm part of the vast majority of people who look at the incomprehensible blizzard of levels and other tech-speak and dual boot back to windows.
The new network manager is all well and good as long as it works.
Like most things linux related, it either works out the box or you have a hell of job getting it to.
My wireless didn't work at all in fiesty, wasn't too hard to set up in gutsy and worked out the box in hardy.
Unfortunately thats on my desktop machine and on my new laptop it won't work at all, either with the supplied 'supported' driver fro realtek rtl8187B in the new kernel.
These chipsets have different hardware id numbers and mine happens to be 8198 instead of 8197 so it won't work. Hundreds of users (just look at the support forums) are having the same problem.
Won't even work with the ndiswrapper & windows drivers.
I guess I'll just have to wait for updates or the next version, like I did with gutsy resolving the problem on my desktop from fiesty.
On the plus side ati radeon graphics using fglrx detected and installed immediately after install,so all the whizzy effects work.
I found no issues on mine - it JWAIS (TM) (just worked as it should) - if anything, it was less painful that networking from another windows box !
Per the other comments though, yes, the default keyring message is a minor pain, and I too cannot get it to suspend (yet) on my Toshiba A60 laptop.
The wireless adaptor I use was not enabled by default, and I started trying to use ndiswrapper as i'd had to in Hardy, but without joy - I then noticed a hardware scan option which found the card, fetched the driver, and enabled it for me (I was on a wired connection at the time)
The lack of xorg.conf isn't wonderful - but i'd like to see some common screen modes being offered if it doesn't detect something higher than 800*600 by default.
Stephen,
I generally agree that auto login is a security risk, however it does have its uses. One example is a a laptop configured with full drive encryption. Since the key is required to boot the system, and because laptops tend to have only one user, the OS login becomes redundant.
I too had the problem with forgotten WPA passwords, but since upgrading to 8.10beta the day before the official beta release it's gone away. Furthermore I don't have the issue you have with the default keyring password.
It's a funny thing about Ubuntu that different hardware seems to have a significant impact on functionality at quite a high level.
Just like you though I love it to bits. And as for suggestions of it's being buggy, I've had no problems and I've been running 8.10 since the beta release just over a month ago.
To those of you bemoaning the lack of OOo 3.0 why can't you just download and install it?
The problem with letting the world use your laptop and wifi is that the kind of people who will are the kind of people you don't want the local plod to associate you with. Still, if you're happy to have your mum pump spam and child porn at her expense (or does she have free broadband? Do tell.) then don't let us stop you.
The new Network Manager looks powereful, but it has to be one of the most unfriendly, obscure, bloody minded pieces of software ever inflicted on the public. I upgraded my wired desktop machine. No network. System -> Preferences ->Network. And what does it say under "Wired"? It says "if (updown) eth0 never".What the hell is that supposed to mean? What is the (greyed out) "never" about?
Still,nothing loth, I have a go on the laptop. Again, no network, and the network manager item has gone from the panel. Put it back.Click on it. Offers wired only. Into System ->Preferences ->Network. That bloody if updown eth0 never again. Wireless tab. Nothing there. Roaming mode has, apparently, gone. Enter SSID etc by hand. Now network manager can see my network- but I have no idea if it will see any others unless I typed them in explicitly.
Ubuntu seem to have a policy of crap releases in the autumn: 6.10, 7.10 and now 8.10 haveall been bedevilled by the inclusion of incomplete, buggy and undocumented software - like the new Network Manager. Let's just just hope they get it right in 9.04.As it stands it (NM) is utterly unusable by anyone without network experience, and since it's rather essential to most users, this is going to drive many people away from Ubuntu and Linux. The Live CD is rather less impressive when it doesn't set up networking ...
Oh,and just to add to it... many people are having system hangs at logout due to a usplash problem and they have reintroduced a 6.10 bug, cleared by 8.04, which gives a few minutes pause at boot while setting up the HAL on many Thinkpads.
For me, autologin is a must have. Why? Because I live in a house - MY house using MY computer for MY use only. I completely trust my wife and kids and have no security issues.
I WANT to convert to Linux but every time I try it I get soo fed up with having to enter a password every time I want to make even the most minor change that I end up going back to XP muttering 'maybe the next release...'. Unfortunately the control freaks still rule the roost so XP stays yet again.
Couldn't the install have a 'Are yo in a safe environment?' question which can turn off all that nonsense if you answer YES? As I understand it, W7 learnt from Vista that users are not happy and is doing away with that nonsense. Will Ububtu sort it out before W7? The race is on ;-)
The computer world is moving 3D into everything these days so that nVidia 3D issue is a killer. This needs to be addressed in an update. Everything I do involves 3D at some point. I can't work without it. Unless something is done about it I have to avoid usage of this Ubuntu entirely.
Slight issue with the generally good article.
Ubuntu8.10 did NOT drop support for the 96 & 71 drivers. Nvidia had not released binaries compatible with the new Xorg (Which has now been corrected) in time for the release.
I'm currently using the 96.43.09-0ubuntu-1 drivers on my Laptop with Ubuntu 8.10 with NO issues.
The default "nv" were used in place of the missing Nvidia drivers when it was released.
Mine is the Zulu speaking Penguin....
Found network manager would not work at all with static (wired) ip configuration and its a known bug, how useless, had to do it the old fashioned way and there is no resolv.conf so had to make one too.
Not a big issue if you have the time but for basic users (who admittedly wouldn't likely need static) it may be a pain.
Just to let you know, Auto-login has been available in both KDM and GDM for ages and ages. You just have to enable it. I agree, it's perfectly OK in certain situations.
Also, you can remove most password prompts by setting up sudo correctly: add the following line to /etc/sudoers:
XXX ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: SETENV: ALL
where XXX is your userid.
Obviously this is a bit insecure - but it's OK if you know what you are doing. (personally, I've always thought that system-wide stuff requiring root access is unimportant (on a single-user system), whereas the stuff in my home directory is what matters.
The Aspire One appears to have a Network Manager that does exactly what's described here, and has the nice little eject buttons on its file manager for removable media. So far they've both worked very well, so it is possible to have the features. Of course, I haven't yet had chance to try any 3G connections on it but it's handled wired and wireless OK.
...if it's possible to run Network Manager 0.7 in 8.04? Or is it 8.10 only?
I have ubuntu 8.04 (netbook remake) running on an eee 900 (NM 0.6) and one of the things that p*sses me off is the lack of 3G modem drivers; I need a Huawei E160 driver which is apparently available out-of-the-box in NM 0.7
Thanks.
Ubuntu is generally great, unfortunately there seems to be a tendency to release too early. Historically early beta's got so bad I stopped even trying and resolved to only upgrade when new versions were actually released. To counter this, it seems beta's have now become releases!
There's a lot of great new stuff in this release, however there are some pretty critical show-stoppers which make it a real PITA, if I could easily downgrade to Hardy I would.
The wonderful Networkmanager doesn't seem to work for static addresses and can't cope with a customised resolv.conf in terms of search strings. (I have to edit resolv.conf on each reboot) Compiz makes the machine unstable if I enable anything worthwhile, Eclipse lasts 5-10 minutes before Java craps out, VMWare V1 no longer works, V2 is partially broken, and as for the 64 bit version, well ...
I tried an upgrade (32-bit) followed by a clean 64-bit, followed by a clean 32-bit .. so I know it's not a faulty install. (that, and launchpad seems to indicate I'm not alone).
Whatever happened to "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!".
It'd be really nice if the Upgrade Manager had an option to bar upgrades to critical sub-systems that haven't been tested much or that might break existing installations. (like X, NetworkManager, the Kernel etc ..)
Here's the Xinerama bug reference for all those poor souls with a single screen who've inadvertently turned on Xinerama and are wondering what's hanging the desktop.
https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/259808
I manage about 25 comps. in a lab and installing and maintaining Ubuntu has been the biggest nightmare. I once installed Ubuntu on a laptop, and i watched the hard disk space during the 45 min. install. the install manager initially stuffed in 5.5-6.0 GB of s/w on the HDD. then it started removing packages till it got whittled down to some 1.2 GB. of course, most of the important ones like ssh, gcc, important libraries were missing.
The ubuntu installed on a Xeon refuses to start NIS services on booting, has to be done manually, the person who uses the m/c insisted on the OS, else it would have become extinct long time back here.
Eye candy and dumbing down the Linux by useless GUI is all fine but i find slackware and RHEL/CentOS best for the lab.
just my opinion.....
I am very sad about this release, never have i seen so many issues with ubuntu. The UI is buggy, the restricted drivers are a pain to get installed even though it should be as easy as a couple pushes of a button. Last but not least. the repos are buggy. I can't do a decent update on the system nor get other programs and drivers i need.
One thing's for sure, I know they will fix it, they always do. sad thing is, by the time they do, they will be releasing 9.01
Yes, this one was released too early. I'd say I'm of 'moderate' technical ability, and I had Hardy Heron working more-or-less OK, but this one has stopped my sound card working and video isn't too great, either. I just haven't got the time or the inclination to start mucking about getting them working, so I'll be doing most things on the XP partition until they've sorted it out. Conclusion: it might be nice for Linux hobbyists but it's absolutely no good at all for Joe Public.
I think you are missing the point of Ubuntu. If you want something stripped down then obviously Slackware is going to be more your thing. But most people out there do want effects - you think OSX would have taken off if it didn't look pleasing to the eye?
Really what is the point in slating a distro when you are happier with another?
The upgrade from 8.04 totally trashed my Linux workstation to the point where it wouldn't boot after post. So, a complete re-install (ummmmm...bit too Windows like for me) is required. Serves me right - I am usually slow to upgrade and my 8.04 installation was running just lovely. :(
Er...where are you getting 0.7 as a version number? They ship with X.org 7.4, x11-server version 1.5. There's not a 0.7 in there anywhere.
And, for the record, Mandriva's network tools have supported 3G devices since around 2004 (I forget exactly when...it's been a while). And...seriously...NetworkManager is only starting the connection during startup in *this release*? How the heck did it used to work? How could you use ntpd...or, well, any other kind of server, more or less...if the network connection wasn't up until you got to a desktop? That sounds kind of baffling. I dunno. Maybe I'm not reading your description right.
As someone who has just struggled with Paint.net to crop/resize/edit 3 photos and a jpg logo for a newsletter - I could have screamed at P****.net. Give me any flavour of basic Linux paint program and they are easier to use/more powerful. I gave up and used Paint for KDE on my Asus EEE PC instead. GIMP is overkill for most users needs - so don't compare to Paint.net!
As for Intrepid Ibex - I'll wait a month or so and check that are bugs are sorted before upgrading. At least I can choose that unlike my son's XP auto-update. That introduced a keyboard/mouse interrupt conflict which could not be uninstalled - needed a complete XP re-install - over 5 hrs of his time.
I'm typing this without the aid of cursor keys that have disappeared as the keys think they are other keys like prtscn. My screen drivers are unstable, my crossvc program is virtually dead it is so slow now... I could go on. This simply is not a good experience unless you get lucky.
Which is a perennial problem in linux, and i have spent many hours reconfiguring ALSA whenever i upgrade (to any distro).
With the last release, Hardy, all sound was moved away from ALSA to PulseAudio, which kinda works but not if you want more than one program to use the sound at once.
A better network manager would be nice if i get my 3g card working... (eventually could not longer use my linux laptop as a portable machine.. .had to go mac to get internet on the move).
I'll take a look, but experience of Ubuntu (even though i am a fan) will make sure i do it at the start of a very free weekend, as i have no doubt it will take some major configuration, even on my very standard HP machine.
Hi Neoc,
Yes you can run nm-0.7 from ubuntu 8.04, I've been doing so since september. Have a look at:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=797059&highlight=huawei+e220
I upgraded to 8.10 on Friday, and I DO have an /etc/X11/xorg.conf which has a timestamp around the time I did the upgrade. Still, I haven't even looked until it was mentioned here.
A little scare was that the fortran compiler has changed from g77 to gfortran. I got into a little panic over that one until I figured it out.
Overall, loving ubuntu 8.10
I spent many hours trying to get kubuntu 8.10 working. ASUS AMD X2 SLI twin nvidia 8500GT, even in 2D mode with the free driver blanked out after a couple of reboots. I'm sticking with kubuntu hardy with kde 3.x. Give me a call in a couple of years when KDE4.xxxx is ready and worth while.
Though I do appreciate Ubuntu and the top notch distros it has given me in the past and to GNU and Debian too. :-)
If you do online transactions with windows your mad!
At least on my laptop. Previously, the laptop would connect to my wifi as the panel loaded. So, by the time the desktop was useful I was almost always connected.
Now, typically, I have to wait up to twenty seconds for the network to connect after the desktop has become overwise useable. This is very frustrating when I've just turned it on to quickly check my email.
Also, previously, I could log and and log back in to my bare-bones session that I use for running virtual machines and still be connected to the network. Now, the act of logging out disconnects me. I've had to make my bare-bones session less bare-bones (it now loaded up an XFCE4 panel and nm-applet) to ensure that my virtual machines get network access.
You lucky bugger... I tried it the other day, well I tried to try it the other day. On my laptop.
It booted to it's install menu, asked me my language of choice, and then locked solid when I picked my option from the main menu. Check CD, memory check, install... All lock it solid.
Curious as Debian installed perfectly, first attempt.
I upgraded to 8.10 from 8.04 and due to multitude of bugs I did a clean install thinking it should work better. It didn't, it had the same issues - namely graphics vsync issues, gnome X issues, crashing applets... YUCK
I had to downgrade in the end. Jeez, this is the worst distro for me. I used to be a Mandrake fan, then PCOS when Mandriva started to ignore its bugs.
Ubuntu 8.04 is the only distro that recognises all my laptop's hardware out of the box and is very stable.
I didn't mean leaving her wireless open, I meant if they access her autologined laptop with her autoauthed wifi, they're pretty much free to use it at that point. Either they have her permission or they've triggered the alarm in which case I doubt they'll browse digg while the police are en route.
Obviously those outside leeching off her broadband are likely get told where to stick it, if they can get past the WPA2, etc.
Having started on Gutsy, and thought it was pretty OK, I naively clicked the "upgrade" button when Hardy came out.
WHAT A FIASCO.
I lost graphics (nVidia) and soundcard. I spent hours trying to follow the posts on various forums to restore the nVidia drivers (they suggested I ran the nVidia EXE which tried to recompile something and then told me my version of gcc was out of date, then my headers were not compatible with the Kernel version yada yada yada yada).
In the end I got my Linux fanboi brother to fix it - the only thing which impressed me was he was able to dial in remotely, recompile the ALSA drivers, and got my soundcard working without a reboot, whilst I was browsing the web.
So, sadder (but wiser) I'll try a LiveCD first.
For me, and judging by the Ubuntu forums, this release has been nothing short of a disaster. The biggest issue from my point of view is that after installing I have no VGA support, just a blank screen. I've been using Ubuntu since 6.06, and was really impressed by 8.04 which worked perfectly on the first install, but I have never had issues this bad before. I cannot understand how the developers managed to break support for ATI graphics so thoroughly since the last version, and looking at the launchpad bug reports, this error had been reported as far back as the beginning of September.
Worst version so far, the last time Linux gave me so much grief was Red Hat back in 2004!
Specifically @chris and Ian Johnston (amongst others);
The new network manager is great, but has an unusual issue. If you have a network card defined in your /etc/network/interfaces file, the new network manager doesn't manage it. You get things like the ifupdown (never) report in network manager etc.
The fix is to either configure the network cards you want to use as you want them in /etc/network/interfaces, or remove them from there completely, and manage them from network manager.
You need to define a loopback interface in /etc/network/interfaces, especially if you're doing things with themes, or you get weird behaviour on boot, but you DON'T need your other network cards defined in there.
I ran into this issue for a wee while, and then bothered to read the Network Manager FAQs on the NM developer's website, where this is specifically documented as an issue on Ubuntu.
I hate to suggest people RTFM, but you could at least RTFFAQs;
http://live.gnome.org/DarrenAlbers/NetworkManagerFAQ#head-45c7dcb29a13372e1da1221b5ed499d981ea7ec6
As a total newcomer to Ubuntu permit me to share a few thoughts.
Ubuntu is great. I installed Hardy Heron on my mum's laptop two days ago. She had a new machine - 1.6ghz duo core chip and 4 gig of RAM - and Vista was so slow we thought the machine was broken. Ubuntu is really fast, and easy for her to use.
Installation is really easy. Even for a first timer who isn't sure what an ISO is. Dual boot - no sweat.
But anything involving the Terminal is REALLY HARD! Reg readers are too technical to appreciate this, but typing "apt-get && sudo" mumbo-jumbo is appalling.
The goal for Ubuntu must be to become entirely GUI, with the terminal as redundant as it is for Macs. To install new applications and updates I want to just click on Next and Finish. Why is this so hard!?
Whether this sets it on the path to bloatware I don't know.
But repositories, sudo, keychains, checksums... these are massive obstacles in the way of mass take up of Ubuntu.
Maybe by the Leaping Lama or Zany Zebra Ubuntu will be usable by people like me and my mum, at which point we can all tell Gates where to shove his costly operating systems.
Final point: the sheer numbers of Linux distros is a big disincentive for newcomers. I considered OpenSuse, KDE, Slackware and Ubuntu. Too confusing! Don't underestimate how damaging this fragmentation is to the Linux movement.
Alas, most people are stupid. Make it easier for the bovine masses to use Ubuntu and they will arrive in droves. Vista is so goddamn bad that the motivation to switch is huge.
Paris - because when she can use Ubuntu, Microsoft will be out of business.
If I buy the shiniest and newest car, I expect it to have better mpg, better handling, more clever bits, cheaper maintenance and so on. If the hinge on the glove box fails after a week, I'm not surprised but expect to have it replaced. What I don't expect is for the engine to be intermittent and the lights not to work. This was a full release: not a beta.
I'll stick with Hardy Heron for now, there's too much hassle being on the "bleeding edge". Part of that hassle involves manually removing my 3d drivers (ATI) and praying that the re-install will make it all work again.
I'll wait until next year before moving from Hardy I think, no matter how nice some of these features sound. I like to be productive, not earning my "linux configuration and problem shooting" badge.
Are you all so incompetent you really have no idea how to use the ifconfig, iwconfig or dhcp command line tools to set up the networking on your machines? Mind you , knowing Ubunto they've probably removed them anyway because they're too scary OOOooooo...
Anyway , who uses a dist with some childish names? Hardy Heron , Intrepid Ibex? FFS , is it aimed at 8 year olds or something? How about Assenine Alliteration for the next one?
If you want your machines to work , learn how to use linux and go install Slackware or Debian. Otherwise clear off back to Windows or Mac world and stop your moaning.
I moved from 8.04 to 8.10 on two systems. Both have started to exhibit video problems and the laptop has serious problems with the WiFi card (which worked perfectly under 8.04). As for the network manager, it does seems to be a shade more stable than 8.04, but I never really had a huge issue with it.
I got around the problems easily enough (barring the video) although I was really disappointed that they have not yet fixed the networking and that it is still not properly interoperable with Windows (and before the freetards jump up and down and call me a liar, there's a few bugs around this lodged with Gnome; so there).
All in all though, I still like it for dicking around on and learning and in many (most) ways I find it superiour to Windows despite the rough edges (it's not as if Windows is a perfect product either).
The author is 2 days behind ; nvidia has released full 3D legacy drivers, about 6 months late for fedora 9 users, but just in time for Ubuntu.
Those drivers are really Beta, so there's still some ironing ahead (compiz+kde 3 -> illegible fonts ; that's a show stopper).
But in any case, nvidia is solely responsible for that situation, only sharing culpability with those gullible enough to have believed that while not free, nvidia would play fair with customers and not pull the "planned obsolescence" trick on them.
Yes, I too belong to that crowd.
For the type about /etc/interfaces. I shall explore that.
And it's useful to know that there are relevant FAQs ... however, online FAQs aren't really much of a solution to a problem which prevents network access, are they? Would it have been so hard to include something which said "We have detected some network management stuff in /etc/interfaces. Do you want to continue using it, or shall we comment it out and use network manager instead?". Bish-bosh, job done.
I have several machines to upgrade, so I did my usual and downloaded the "alternate" CD so I could run the upgrades from that - saves the ol' broadband usage. When you run the upgrade,it asks you ifyouwant to download the latest stuff from the net.
If you say yes, it appears to download /everything/ from the net. In my case, 450+MB. Why? The distribution was one day old ...had they upgraded 450MB ofit in that time?
So for the next, I said "no" and it did its stuff much more quickly. Then a quick "apt-get upgrade" to get anything which /had/ been updated in the first 24hours. Which revealed a huge amount of held-over stuff, which needed an apt-get dist-upgrade to put right. Not that that was offered by the GUI upgrade manager.
So there we have it. They offer a CD based upgrade which either doesn't use the CD or doesn't do the upgrade. Nice one.
every so often i install ubuntu on my laptop to see if it's useable yet, and every time i am dissappointed that it's not ready.
However, that said, this release does come close. This is the only release i've tried where everything has worked out of the box, card reader especially. The main problems i have had are with the network.
I have 2 wireless cards in my laptop, an internal one (b), and a decent pcmcia one (g). Unfortunately, I'm not sure if this is the network manager, but it doesn't seem to be able to seperate them. If i disable the internal card (bios, or hardware button), it disable the entire wireless interface and neither work, and the wireless will not work reliably with both running. so i'm stuck using b. (and it took me a week to figure this out and turn it on, as i have the internal card disabled by default!)
Other than this, it doesn't quite feeel ready for mass use. As with all flavours of linux, you have a very restricted GUI (It seems to go out of it's way to obscure the hardware, which is OK until there is a problem.) overlayed on a very powerful command line. But I want to be able to do almost everything through the GUI, i lived with DOS as there was no alternative at the time, and i use the windows command line now and then to save time, but i wouldn't learn it now if i was just starting out.
I think i'll actually stick with this version, i'll not drop windows though, as i still need it. it does tick all of the boxes for the simple tasks net/documents etc. However the learning curve to get started is still far too steep (filenames and folder structure for a start, understandable in the days of low memory and an all command line interface designed for speed, but not anymore)
My machine is one of those "abandoned" by NVidia. Overall, a frustrating upgrade. Let's start with the flaw that affects all Ubuntu variants....
1- NVidia deprecated support means that you get the "nv" driver. This means no 3D acceleration and sub par 2D. If you like to see your screen flicker at every keystroke, go for it.
2- Network manager that cannot even set a machine with a static IP address. No comments on this one.
Oh yes, you can somewhat fix that by installing the .71 or .93 drivers. Guess what? I have two identical machines side by side that were previously running 8.10. 3D is still noticeable faster on the 8.04 (fresh install, no upgrade) one.
But if you think Ubuntu 8.10 has released before being really finished, you have to take a look at KUbuntu 8.10. The control panel is missing file sharing control, service control, and more. The properties dialog has a button that silently ignores your desire to configure file sharing. When you install the required packates, the Samba icon appears, but bombs when you try to configure anything. Service management is missing from the control panel.
I've not even dared to try to configure a printer.
It's not that any of those things cannot be fixed. Some of them have to wait for NVidia or for the KDE team. Some others you can fix them by hand editing configuration files. But the whole thing makes me feel like I'm back to year 2000 or something. When it was a real challenge to configure a Linux system. Ubuntu came and made it dead easy. Not any longer.
Oh, yes, the KDE4 desktop is fast and responsive., even with the fancy effects turned on. But overall, a frustrating release.... much more so if you compare with rock solid KDE 3.5 on 8.04.1
Just a note to remind you to take your medication, as you have clearly forgotten.
What's that you say, you're not on medication, you're just fed up with all the whining noobs.
Well, congratulate yourself for being ever so clever as to be able to use all those complicated ifconfig, iwconfig and dhcp command line tools.
Give yourself a pat on the back, Mr Clever Clogs.
I'm sure your long, hairy simian arms can reach all the way round there, no problem.
Ubuntu is STILL far from ready for ordinary end-users. Even Windows ME wasn't this broken when released. Doesn't matter to the linux die-hards though. MS problem solved by a patch cue comments 'shouldn't have been released like that, patch too slow in being released, typical windows nothing works move to linux etc etc etc lets all jump on MS cos we hate the big horrible corporate machine'. Linux problem of far greater magnitude and the comments switch to 'no matter just do this followed by that, open terminal and type, edit this, download that, install patch, reinstall this, edit something else, It will all be fixed soon just bare with it'
Boltar, please tell me you haven't been out there flaming newbies again!
To use a car analogy, if you want the OS equivalent of a kit car and you like grease under your fingernails, you use Slackware and compile your own thingies and whatsits. Oh yes, and throw that mouse away, GUIs corrupt absolutely.
If your main priority is to get to the shops/work/wherever reliably and without touching a spanner, you should buy a Ford Focus or a Toyota Blandbox. The OS equivalents are Windows and Ubuntu.
If your ideal car is a Nissan Micra cabriolet, you would buy an Apple.
Anyway, it seems you need the Haynes manual with Ubuntu 8.10.
Yup the WPA/ keychain issue is still there using NM.
Solved by removing the NM applet and installing wicd (which can then auto run a script to mount shares etc. that I have on my home network)
I LOVE ubuntu! It's got some issues but no more than any other OS and the support from forums, google etc. is brilliant.
John
this is what the numpties window crowd is like, moan groan, ooo where is my VGA :)
Go buy some support from Canonical for any problems, that is what they are there for :)
You didn't think you were getting something for nothing were you? No effort, just the ability to moan on a forum, tsk tsk, if you don't yearn for the early days of minix - you know just before it all started working. then WTH are you doing on a Linux platform without a paid for support number.
"Linux problem of far greater magnitude"
Confucius he say? Just to clue you up on this: there isn't a monolithic Linux community. For example, Red Hat and SuSE advocates will no doubt say that a lot of the bad stuff is of Canonical's own making. To an extent, they have a point, even though the SuSE people are usually unreasonably smug about it all whilst plugging up their ears and singing "la, la, la!" when anyone brings up the names Novell and Microsoft in the same sentence.
Given the recent track record of the Ubuntu crowd, no-one should be jumping at their new releases. When the package manager offers to upgrade you, just say "no thanks" until it looks like you won't get any updates any more. Eventually, the dust will settle and someone will have cleaned up after those who wanted the most "edgy" stuff included, who will themselves be back on the trunk (and out of the way) stuffing even more "edgy" stuff into the next release.
I came down to the comments to protest about Ubuntu taking the credit for the new NetworkManager ("Ubuntu has completely revamped the network config panel"), when actually it's all down to one guy at RedHat and one guy at Novell. But having read the complaining from the early adopters about NM 0.7 I will give you the satisfaction of hearing from a self-deprecating SUSE person that in this regard, Ubuntu's problems are almost entirely of our making. I suspect that the "if (updown) eth0 never" guy's troubles come from a bad Ubuntu/debian system settings service implementation, however.
I can't resist the temptation to poke Ubuntu for promising all things to all people and trying to do it with too few developers. Hyped but badly integrated features grabbed from left, right and centre give Linux a bad name.
Must dash, I've got an undoubtedly buggy NetworkManager-kde4 to finish for openSUSE 11.1...
I installed 8.04 onto a brand spanky Dell Poweredge 840 - 2.4Ghz dual processor, 1TB disk space on 4 SAS drives, 4Gb RAM. It ran like a dog with its back legs chopped off and tied to a jumbojet flying in the opposite direction. Switched off server and waited for 8.10. Wiped drives all down so there was no remains of the previous incarnation and tried again. Clicked the buttons ;-) let it install, went and had a cup of tea and the watch a bit of telly ;-p, came back a while later and the server was ready. One reboot later and ran the updates and my Ubuntu Server is finally complete. Now it runs like a greyhound on steroids. I am a happy bunny! Now to install VM Ware and some MS crapola and I finally have a decent system I can work from without it crashing like a S.O.B.
Its definitely improved, maybe not as much as some people would like but mostly, its FREE!
I havent paid for a stupid MS license and had them screw up my system!
People, if you dont like what you see on the OS, get your finger out of your ass and learn something about the system, find out what you can do to improve it and make it happen.
I'm not a fanboi, I usually hate them all with the same passion but at least if i dont like it or doesnt do what I need it to, I can find out how to change it AND I HAVENT PAID ANYTHING FOR IT!
Enjoy for free, or go buy something else!
I thought I'd try a copy of 8.10 in a Virtual PC. I'm running MS Virtual PC 2007, so I attached the .ISO to it, booted it up and selected th Live CD option.
And it didn't work (didn't recognize the video "hardware"). You'd think that it'd be a pretty obvious way to get Windows users to try out Ubuntu, and that it'd be worth the effort to make sure that it'd work in a VPC.
"Go buy some support from Canonical for any problems, that is what they are there for :)"
And how exactly paying Canonical is going to have NVidia keeping its drivers up to date with Kernel revisions? Last time I checked the mighty Canonical business was estimated less than 1000 times the size of NVidia. How many paying customers does Canonical need to have enough market strength to dictate the release schedule for NVidia legacy drivers? Mmmmm... about the same as Windows?
Let's be realistic, some of the problems with 8.10 are due to Canonical releasing it so that it could bear the 8.10 label (instead of the 8.12 or 9.02 label), but some others are happening in all distros, not only Ubuntu.
@ "online FAQs aren't really much of a solution to a problem which prevents network access, are they? Would it have been so hard to include something which said "We have detected some network management stuff in /etc/interfaces. Do you want to continue using it, or shall we comment it out and use network manager instead?". Bish-bosh, job done."
Although I kind of agree with the sentiment behind this, it's a bit disingenuous to complain about it on a forum. If you can post on a forum your networking isn't so broken you can't read the online FAQs about the product you're having trouble with ... ;)
The installation hung at the point where it was trying to establish network connections on a laptop NOT connected to a network.
As it was supposed to be a triple booting rooting tooting son of a gun, I now have error code 22 from those nice people at GRUB, but no OS at all ! Son of a b*tch !
All Hate the new Network Manager
ALF
I too upgraded to 8.10 and the new ATH9K driver. Unfortunately it just doesn't work out of the box. I find myself scouring the net to find how to enable Antheros driver and I find lots of people trying different solutions - none of which work. My time is worth $125 and hour and at this time Vista is looking pretty good. Perhaps the Unbuntu team should try actually testing their releases before tossing them over the fence!
> Ubuntu did NOT drop older nvidia cards..
Really? That's interesting because when I started the 8.10 upgrade from one of my 8.04 machines the other day, it pretty much told me that it had detected the nvidia driver was in use and that it wasn't available in the new install and therefore my video would pretty much turn to shit, or words to that effect. At that point I declined the upgrade and decided to wait for 9.04 in the hope that, by then, the nvidia fiasco would be sorted out.
> And another gem: "Speaking of looks, Ubuntu has a new and
> ever-controversial "dark" theme available."
>
> How can the theme be "ever-controversial" if it's new? That is
> complete nonsense....
LOL!. The reviewer's artistic licence should be endorsed with 20 penalty points for that one.
Upgrade on a precision workstation with Nvidia quadro card, worked perfectly and all my printers worked as soon as I plugged them in.
IBM X40 fresh install due to a hard drive replacement- now running off a 133X compact flash card. It's usable, but it is a bit slow sometimes -Probably needs a touch more ram as there is no swap space. Faster CF would help too, but they are expensive. Still feels faster than the previous release on it though.
So my experience has been pretty much perfect. This was on the release day too.
A few days ago I decided to treat my laptop with a new raw 160Gb HDD. Great, I downloaded and burnt 8.10. Now, I am no newcomer to Ubuntu so what I found trying to install 8.10 was most disappointing. It wouldn't install on a raw drive, so I installed XP. So nowt wrong with drive there. Then I installed 8.10 (now that the drive was NTFS formated) and everything was OK until the request partition screen and it wouldn't accept the default - cutting the crap, not since early RedHat have I had so much bother and hassle with Linux.
Now it's running smoothly and strangely slower then XP (???) I still have the hassle of wireless connectivity (the forums are no help as everyone else is asking "how to!" and there's no answers)
So, after a whole day (BTW Windows 7 took 30 minutes to install on my desktop) I now have to decide 2 things, go back to XP (for which I have a license) or try another flavour?
Ugh...I'll try SUSE.
Ubuntu does a great job of packaging new stuff up, but I don't think you'll find that:
"Ubuntu has completely revamped the network config panel" isn't really very true.
# cat network-manager-applet/MAINTAINERS
Dan Williams
E-mail: dcbw redhat com
Userid: dcbw
# cat NetworkManager/MAINTAINERS
Dan Williams
E-mail: dcbw redhat com
Userid: dcbw
I agree, they should have waited until the driver issues had been sorted. One of the best things about Ubuntu was the ability to give the CD to anyone so they could have a play. Now a large number of people (including me) can't just stick the CD in their PC and go. Is x.10 synonymous with Beta or something?
Reading this article was quite frightening. Happily my own experience with 8.10 was not nearly as bad as some. However the phrase "it just works" is clearly an unfortunate choice - in particular the mention of tablet PC's and also the Mobile Edition. I believe it is true that most tablet PC's use a Wacom-style touch-screen that uses a stylus. Why are the drivers not enabled anymore?
There was a version of kubuntu perhaps 18 months ago where the tablet functions worked "out of the box" and there was a version of Mepis at about the same time that actually worked. I enjoy trying out a variety of Linux distros, but tablet operation is probably the most neglected function.
This is more than a great pity, I am sure it stops many people who might otherwise have adopted Linux.
At last the Mobile Edition has arrived in an easily installable form! I eagerly installed it on a flash disk and booted up my tablet thinking that at last I would have a fully functioning portable.
The wireless card functioned well, only typical set-up config. required - fullmarks for that !
However the expected tablet operation is still conspicuously absent, and this time on a distro that is specifically targeted at tablet-style machines. Admittedly the new MID machines have the "finger-touch" type of screen, but most people do not have these (the few that are on the market are still expensive) but there are many millions of conventional tablets around that have the Wacom screen. So come on Ubuntu , let's live up to the "it just works" slogan PLEASE !
We are really tired of Windows supporters saying "I don't have this sort of problem" !
Regards,
Mike.
Perhaps its Canonical's fault for not being more explicit about it, but the LTS ("Long Term Support") are the versions to use for people looking for trouble free (or as close as can be) operation. The intermediate versions often are a bit flakey - read the release blurb to find out if you want to upgrade.
FWIW, I am using Dapper Drake on my main laptop, because I've yet to find a compelling reason to upgrade. I'll probably go to Heron (8.04.1) soon, because I've been running that on a secondary machine and it seems OK. Maybe I'll risk 8.10 on the secondary machine then.
So, if you're installing Ubuntu for Gran, use the LTS version! (Currently 8.04.1 Hardy Heron).
Mimic the system Burroughs used for releases of their large systems MCP eons ago: explicitly alternate releases between "new features" and "faster, smaller, more efficient."
Otherwise the bloat endlessly becomes moreso.
Footnote: "Eons ago" when you chased a pterodactyl down the street and caught it if you wanted a warm lunch.
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