eBay changes anger smaller sellers Online tat bazaar eBay is changing how it charges to encourage more fixed price sales instead of auctions. Changes to the fee structure announced yesterday seem to make "Buy it Now" offers more attractive, at least to sellers of higher value items. Smaller sellers seem alienated by the changes. eBay wants to make itself an …
Unless you've sold more than 100 items on your account PayPal will now place your money on "hold" until you either get positive feedback from the buyer or after 21 days....!?! WTF?!
eBay and PayPal are a complete joke and have forgotten what their target customers are. They are in the business of assisting trade, not telling me I maybe untrustworthy cause I haven't trade 100 times on their site.
Plus PayPal on top! No way will people pay that much to list. They'll just bugger off to eBid.
What the hell is eBay's problem? People *enjoy* a site full of auctions and small sellers, because it's full of bargains and oddities. eBay seem determined to turn their site into simply a front-end for dropshippers and Hong Kong con artists. To hell with that!
Do pepole still buy things on ebay? Inbetween the scammers, fakers, and big Hong-Kong box shifters, there are very few 'real' sellers anymore. I used to use ebay when bargains were available from real sellers, but unfortunately it's just a big online-buy-it-now-shop. Why buy something under UK auction law (with associated risk) using Paypal when you can buy the same item from an online shop for the same price, and get the added credit card safety features?
eBay is turning into a joke now. They're excluding the people who made them huge profits during their start period and now looking at making quick large profits.
Well they can fuck right off.
I think it'd be really cool if we could have some sort of mass eBay protest and users just ignore eBay for a week. That ought to give them a good kick in the nuts. And if they don't change their greedy attitude then there are plenty other options to eBay.
I have been using Ebay less and less and with these new fees I won't be selling anything else on ebay again.
It used to be fun on ebay but with the charges (and increasing postal charges) it's back to being cheaper and easier selling in the local paper.
Mines the coat that won't be on ebay
Apparently they are making PayPal payment compulsory as it cuts down the risk of fraud. Right. So it's got nothing to do with the exorbitant fees?
Last couple of times I've sold items I've been shocked by the chunk ebay took, only then to have even more taken by paypal. Sellers obviously try to build this into their P&P, so I just use Amazon used for books these days. It's excellent
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Hopefully Ebay will collapse under the weight of their own greed.
This is what corporations do, they provide a reasonable service at a reasonable price with reasonable quality. As the market share and customer base increase, conditions are slowly added and concessions slowly removed from the T&C's and costs to the consumer are slowly hiked. Eventually what one has is a totally different service with a completely different price structure to that which attracted one to the service in the first place.
I can't add much that others haven't said so well already. Except to complain about the asinine policy of not allowing sellers to leave negatives any more either, regardless of circumstances. Even a checkbox system like "Buyer did not pay" would be nice. I'm Looking at ebid in another tab right now. I just wish I could transfer the positive feedback I've built up on ebay for the last 5 years.
I have a set of Shure SE530PTh earphones that I was going to grudgingly put on eBay yesterday, but I was loathe to give them such high fees, risk my goods to dodgy buyers only then to have PayPal come along and also take a chunk of my money.
So I put them on AVForums instead where at least I know there are more trustworthy people who share same interests as me.
I've just accepted an offer made to me. I don't have to pay anyone any fees and the money will be transferred directly in to my account. Totally hassle free.
So yes, there are other ways to sell eBay, you will not be missed by me!!
"We've noticed that you've almost reached the payment or 'sending' limit on your PayPal account. Once you've reached your sending limit, you won't be able to buy any more goods on eBay or other online shops with PayPal. There's no need to worry. To lift this limit, you simply need to get Verified."
Anyone else had this rubbish. My mates had one and he's does a lot more transactions than me on it, yet strangely our limits are the same :O
eBay says you can pay with your bank account OR credit card and it's immediately paid to the seller. WRONG! If you only list a bank account, it becomes an eCheck and cart blanch for PayPal to hold your money as long as its accountants tell it to.
The fee situation has resuted in many of the sellers I have bought stuff from recently adding "handling" to their shipping. It is hard when one buys something fro US10, to pay US20 for shipping, and note that their is a postal indicta for US 1.97 on the package that arrives.
Supose you can't blane the seller for trying to cover their costs, but I am sure glad I built up my stock of Tubes (Valves in the UK) when i still could.
"If like me you were wondering what the alternatives are, I would just like to mention tazbar.com"
They came so close, they could have registered tatbazzar.com
Seriously, I did used to seel some stuff on ebay but it just costs too much now. I generally put stuff on Amazon, their fees are quite high but at least you dont have to pay PayPal's fees as well
"Suggestion for the Post Office... why not set up a rival to e-bay with minimal fees and transfer payment to the seller automatically on delivery? They already have a network of pick-up/drop-off points, and seem to need more business..."
But wouldn't that mean they'd have to actually do some work?
The Ebay suits see that there's more money, less hassle, less effort required to make money from sales a la Amazon. So they're abandoning their old business model and implementing a new one. As I think I commented a week or so ago, I anticipate Ebay will totally abandon auctions in the near future; and now it looks like that will happen before the end of the year.
Downside: Online auctions are a very efficient market and barring scams, frauds, and misrepresentation of goods, the final price is generally close to the theoretical definition of value: what a willing, well-informed buyer will pay a willing well-informed seller. With Ebay out of the picture very soon, sellers will be hard pressed to get the wide exposure Ebay offered.
Craigslist is all very well for everyday stuff, but if you have a specialty item, restricting yourself to the local market won't yield the best price because there may be nobody locally who appreciates rarities and specialities.
Ebay seems determined to thrust their new model down everyone's throats and those who don't agree are to be tossed overboard. I long ago set up and bookmarked an Ebay search URL for a specific item of clothing I like, specifying brand, style, size, etc. This year, the same search string which had worked pretty well with very few false positives no longer works: the results returned include endless false positives: other brands, other styles, etc.
Sure this may give *those* sellers exposure in my eyes, but it doesn't do any good: I know what I want and no substitutes need apply. I used to check daily, but now maybe a couple of times a month.
And the ludicrous PayPal nonsense is merely the cherry on top of the sundae ("eat this or we'll make you").
Once Ebay has remodelled itself to look like Amazon, its insistence on PayPal will become a liability. Amazon doesn't do that, so why would anybody waste money and mental energy on the bloodsucking vampires at Ebay?
Some readers may remember DejaNews, the original usenet newsgroup archive, which tried to reformulate itself as an all-purpose web portal, lost touch with its original business model, and ended up dying a painful death. I predict that Ebay is headed down a similar path.
What other decent online auction sites are there that are free of all the Ebay nonsense?
Sad to see a once-vital website stick its head up its own ass and then inhale deeply.
eBay is just recognizing that ten percent of their customers represent ninety percent of their profit. A single mid-range mass seller generates as much profit as 60% of eBay's small-user base put together. Small wonder that eBay is re-focusing on being a storefront service; that's how they make their money.
i'm another self-loathing ebay addict. i've had a look at most of the alternatives, but i keep coming back to ebay to get shafted again and again. why? - because albeit that the rivals have better fee structures, they have a minute fraction of the items for sale that ebay does. it's one of those catch22 situations; no-one sells on the other sites, coz no-one sells on them... and everyone sellls on ebay, coz everyone sells on ebay.
for a while there was bated breath all round, when it looked like google were planning to set up a rival 'gbay' but it never came to anything more than 'google checkout'. amazon are about the only other company sizeable enough to knock ebay off their perch, but their system is only good for selling secondhand books and other things that amazon already sells.
i for one will drop ebay in a heartbeat the second something better comes along, but i'm not holding my breath!
recipe for an ebay killer:
1: similar numbers of items for sale as ebay
2: get rid of the pointless rules and restrictions on what people can sell
3: allow new users to transfer their existing feedback ratings from ebay
4: provide a fair feedback system
4: have customer service that disnae treat users with contempt
5: charge reasonable fees
"time to go back to the car boot sale and use other sites.. how about amazon.."
Good if you're selling something that they sell (books, games etc.) but useless for everything else. I regularly buy and sell books and games on Amazon, and my only real gripe with them is that their 'postal credit' is seriously flawed. It wouldn't be a stretch for Amazon to do something eBay-like, but chances are it's get overrun by the suits and end up going the same way. I trust Google about as far as I could physically spit Scotland.
I've got a bunch of hi-fi gear that I want shot of, but rather than get shafted by Fleabay and PayPal I'm going to stick a postcard in the window of the local post office instead. If that doesn't work, then I may resort to the local car-boot sales.
Sometimes the analogue methods are best.
Sometimes Ebay works very nicely as a shop - for the very niche items.
Eg. I am buying some live fish on Ebay - much better than searching through websites. And if I want the fish, I don't want to wait days for an auction to end, I want to immediately purchase. The same for when I wanted some long ethernet cables without the hasstle of going down the shops.
They do get annoying on auctions where you want second hand stuff - but I think you can normally chose 'Condition - used' to filter them out - not much Buy it now options on used goods.
As to small item fees - I guess Ebay must be losing a bit of money on them and making the good money off the power sellers.
I left eBay/paypal months ago. When you think about Paypal, it only has 2 layers of security, a email address to login and a password. Er....that's worrying, very worrying especially as any normal bank with online account requires at least 4 levels or more.
The last year I had my accounts, twice I had problems - major problems like paypal freezing my account with £500 in it! There wont be a thrid time - I quit!
An online auction requires good and stable network and server resources to enable a fair chance for everyone to bid and win. Bit pricey of course to keep upgrading kit as Ebay popularity grows.
'Buy it now' requires bugger all really as its just shopping online and no doubt easier on thier fat overstuffed wallets.
I'm an eBay seller. Mainly computer components that I've upgraded. When eBay upped their rates a while ago I stopped using them as my no. 1 sales outlet. When I posted a mild message about the price rise ANC the alternatives. I was threatened with my account (100+ rated) being suspended.
This is a step too far and I'll be looking for an alternate site to take my business. And an alternative to PayPal too.
It's been painfully obvious for a long time now that eBay don't want auctions, that they just want to be an online /shop/ front, starting with the Buy-It-Now & the introduction of 'stores' for sellers so they can sell multipile identical items, then changing the address name of the new (& bloody awful to use) search to "shop.ebay.co.uk" from the old (& still thankfully working) "search.ebay.co.uk", and now the absurd price hikes for auctions whilst dropping the prices for fixed price listings.
I hate eBay for these moves, if you're a collector of something obscure then it's now going to be even more difficult to find those 2nd hand items because private sellers will be even more reluctant to list knowing they're going to have to give such a huge percentage to eBay & PayPal for the "privilage" of selling through them.
Google appear to be the only company that could bring out an online auction site which would gain enough interest from sellers & buyers to steal customers away from eBay in significant amounts.
Do it Google, you know you want to.
>>Add the extortionate paypal fees on top of that and ebay enjoy 2 bites out of your miniscule profit!
So, you must be a reseller....!!
For me, as a private individual, to use eBay is easy and simple....I have something I don't want anymore and it's "too good" to junk, give to a charity shop and no one I know, wants it.
A few other people might want it, so onto eBay it goes - it fetches a fair price and someone else gets the item....a win, win scenario.
If I'm lucky, I get a reasonable percentage of it's original value back. If it doesn't sell, I can offer it again (for free) and keep my fingers crossed.
As a reseller, you COULD open a shop (if you haven't already got one) and sell on the High Street.....take a gamble on business rates/VAT/wages/National Insurance etc and hopefully a caring landlord....and that really would eat into your "profits".
PH - coz she could be regarded as "damaged goods"...?
Why?
Because EBay is one of their biggest advertisers. You notice that
Google does not push their payment system all that hard because
EBay felt threatened and also forbid its usage in the auctions.
Since I don't sell, I don't mind using paypal most of the time, though
you have to ask the seller questions as sometimes Paypal gets stupid.
"Well, the seller did not say the card WASN'T ripped".
True story that cost me $40. Soon as I use up the paypal bonus returns
I'm going to Visa and see what happens there.
Might get me to not use Paypal at all or even EBay, which means I will
save lots of money and Ebay will lose lots. Not that I necessarily win
tons, but my bidding certainly has made the overall price go up quite a
bit in some cases.
I've been thinking for a while that running an eBay shop is more trouble than it's worth. Then last month for the first time I had my paypal account frozen and had to go through something akin to Franz Kafkas "The Trial" to even find out why. It turns out that someone had tried to chargeback on an item despite having actually bloody signed for it. It took a week to sort out and I couldn't even get my money out to spend on more stock. I was repeatedly lied to, given conflicting information every time, given fake numbers to call and generally messed around by paypal despite being totally reasonable and doing everything they asked. Leaves a bit of a pissy taste in the mouth I can tell you when they are taking such a huge slice already.
Then this. You get charged to list, charged when it sells, charged when you get paid and charged when you try to get your money AND they are upping the fees?
I have to throw my cards down on this hand I think, I am closing my shop right now and even though I've worked so hard on it and had so many happy customers and managed a 100% positive feedback rating it just isn't worth it. They will kill their business this time because all traders are sick of it and everyone will flock to the first viable alternative.
The only customers eBay are going to be left with are people who can't add up.
Let's look at an actual example of some fees:
Say you're a small-time seller and have an expensive book that sells at £100. You put it on eBay with a £50 reserve and it sells for £100.
eBay takes out £6.40 for listing fee +FVF. The remaining £93.60 then goes to PayPal, who take out £3.38, leaving you with £90.21(rounding down).
Sell the same book on Amazon and they'll only give you £81.89. In addition Amazon will charge you a fee for passing on the money for delivery.
That's quite a big difference in eBay's favour.
The problem with eBay is small sellers who know little about the costs and realities of doing business. The fact that people are *still* whining about the changes to buyer feedback shows how unrealistic these people's expectations are. All these sob stories from hobby sellers who thought they could make an easy buck on eBay when they know nothing about retail just make me laugh.
Does anyone have experience with ebid? I'd like to try them as their fee structure is massively better but it doesn't seem to have the user base. Therefore I feel that anything I list will get much less interest than it would on ebay, and sell for a lot less.
I've registered anyway in the hope that as a result of ebay pissing everyone off it will grow bigger. Spread the word :)
Dear eBay,
That's it. With your latest swathe of fee increases you have made it completely uneconomical for me to sell on eBay. Listing a buy it now item for 99p costs 40p in fees, plus 9.9% selling fee, plus a 28p fee to Paypal. So eBay/Paypal get 78% of the sale price in fees and I get 22%. Then you remove the option to make my items visible internationally so I have fewer customers. Mind you, with me making absolutely nothing any more selling an item, perhaps you have done me a favour getting rid of half my customers so I don't waste my time posting things where I no longer make a profit at all. Every few months, eBay changes its fees or conditions or feedback system to make things worse for sellers and I consider leaving. This time there is absolutely no reason for me to continue to use eBay any more. Well done, you finally drove me away. And I just made it to 2000 feedback. Cheers, Jon
I've been one of their more loyal customers. Although I haven't sold much lately, I had a few items lined up and I was still planning to use eBay, but this is clearly going from bad to worse so I'm out of there. I'm sure they're going to succeed in what they're doing - I don't think they're being stupid, just realigning what their site is all about. This is a systematic attack on small sellers - they really do want rid of us. They want a few big sellers and a horde of small buyers - you can see why they think that'll work, and it probably will. I don't see why they didn't start a separate side-project for this though, there was no need to kill eBay in the process.
To avoid giving them the satisfaction I'm going to stop buying through them as well. Craigslist doesn't seem to have really taken hold around here yet but Gumtree is going strong. I'm giving that a try. It's a little bit of a shame to lose the convenience of Paypal but it's a price worth paying now that the price of Paypal itself isn't. I guess the eBay of old was too good to last.
How does a company that prides itself on "masking information" contribute in a positive manner for fraud? Theres a large mis-conception, especially since PayPal is out lying about how they handle disputes. Sure having e-bay/paypal owned by the same company was a huge mistake, but it's the free market right? Ha, I stopped using ebay years ago. With Paypal you never know, one day you wake up, your accounts frozen, and your on the phone with someone in india.
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I've just nuked my eBay and PayPal accounts and lacking anything suitable to put into the eBay 'feedback box', I cut and paste your rant, modified it a little to suit my own circumstances and let 'em have it.
Maybe if enough people do this they'll get the message, but I'm not holding my breath.
In the immortal words of The Exploited: Fuck 'em.
Mine's the one with the postcards in the pocket - they're going in the Post Office window.
Let's face it some will vote with their feet and go elsewhere (are there other dotcom auction survivors?) and the rest of us will continue to use eBay. Yes the costs are getting a bit steep but look at the alternatives.
The local papers charge a lot (£25 for a classified) for poor coverage, only a couple of days of good visibility, and no PayPal or CC options - cash or cheque. Mostly you will have to drive to do the deal adding to buyers costs so some will decline to visit.
Boot sales are fading fast due to Ebay so early morning bargains are getting rare. And why waste 1/2 a day when an Ebay search takes 5 minutes and you don't even have to get dressed.
The free sheets only cover more densely populated areas and you may have to travel a distance (petrol costs 20p a mile) to see the item only to be told it is sold.
If you take a step back then, like it or not, Ebay is still the better option.
Ebay is only interested in them making money, not you as a seller, when you face up to this fact then you can take positive action to change things. There are alternatives like http://ebid.net and http://www.tazbar.com two sites where I have been selling for two years at a fraction of the cost of eBay. Until people wake up and realise that eBay only survives because you let it by continuing to support the place by buying and selling on there. Take both your buying and selling elsewhere to the alternatives and it will eventually collapse.
I made more money in the first 12 months when i quit eBay than I had in the previous 12 selling on there, and that didn't include the saving on fees either.
HI, Ebay is not good for selling computer parts, unless they are old used parts where the markup is good. Computer and computer parts sell for anywhere from 3 percent to 15 percent profit margin. Ebay is just ripping us off. I only sell used parts on Ebay, they want too much money. Thats what happens when you take a good auction site and turn it into a corporation with hungry/greedy stockholders. To think Ebay was started by a Christian woman.... better evaluate your morals and usury.
I started my backroom hobbyist mountain bike parts online shop in 1997 - paypal wasn't around then so I had a natwest merchant services account and a bureau account at Netbanx (which I found out later is an ex pr0n consortium in cambridge).. As a small online trader, I was getting billed 8% on revenue, with full exposure to chargebacks and a 3 month revenue retention. I had to be a Ltd company to get the merchant account and get approved by the bank. There was little fraud protection at the time and i was hit with stolen card numbers a few times.
Today, for me, paypal is integrated through my website (not ebay) is a great tool allowing foreign transactions for a small fraction of the cost of using corporate banking. Sure, paypal has service quality issues, but then so did using the bank. In the three years I used them, netbanx never managed to tally the figures correctly with all sorts of rounding errors and strangeness! It's just a cost of doing business and should be accounted for. Online international payments is not exactly simple and the HomeCommerceTards should realise that.
I bought a 2nd hand Tosh laptop for £150, used it for a year then the motherboard developed a dry joint which I couldn't fix.
So I took it to bits, binned the Mo'bo', and flogged all the parts for about £140 !
It's just a case of making a good guess at how much you can get for your bits, then selling them using buy it now.
I'll still be checking out the alternatives tho' because I don't like Ebay's monopoly which affords them a certain arrogance, and their customer service is often sh*te..
"Say you're a small-time seller and have an expensive book that sells at £100. You put it on eBay with a £50 reserve and it sells for £100."
Is that in any way typical of an ebay sale? No, it's not. It's the same kind of spurious logic used by eBay themselves to offload on the more gullible journalists with the headline "eBay slashes fees" etc.
There are more relevant examples in the replies, most people are selling low value items - it is now impossible to do that because as someone points out they are taking nearly 70% of his sale price. That just isn't feasible as a business. Higher value items are also hit badly, like I said the only people who are not going to be put off trading are large companies and people who can't add up.
This will only benefit large companies with huge amounts of stock who will be selling their items with a quid off highstreet prices. That's what ebay will become. Have a bit of empathy, people have put a lot of time into ebay. Plenty of them understand retail, they understand enough not to be fooled into thinking this is somehow a good thing at least.
Sadly there is no alternative yet, all these other suggestions are fine if you sell toasters or something but if you sell anything niche there just isn't the customers there yet. eBay remains a good place to buy, just a pointless place to sell and as long as they have the buyers it doesn't matter what they charge.
Pissed me off to read that guys comment though, what a patronising load of crap from someone who is a bit bitter they didn't get a few years of working from home!
It's easier to publish a listing on, it's free and actual human beings with actual money will show up at your door, hand that actual money TO YOU, and leave with your stuff. AND to the comment about only hitting the local market, I live in Southern California. I've put up Craigslist ads and had replies from Texas, Florida and other states interested in my items. AND I've sold everything I've ever listed there for more than I, in reality, expected or could have gotten from Ebay.
I agree with most of the other posts. The new fee hike of 40p has really got me worried. In the email they sent out, they falsely implied that the fees would mostly be at the end of the sale (fvf), and that insertion fees were going down. What the didn’t say in that email was that in order to get the 1p listing fees, you had to pay over £300 a month. I’m a small business seller, and sell approx 80-100 items a month. Obviously i’m the type of seller they are trying to get rid of, because for the life of me, i have no idea how i’m going to survive on there anymore.
I also sell on WWW.EBID.NET and although it’s not the size of ebay, for UK sellers it’s the next biggest auction site, and as time is going on, it’s getting more & more sellers & buyers, plus it’s free to list, with small FVF fees. I have had quite a lot of sales on there since a started selling there in June. So for anyone looking for a auction site that gives a dam about it’s sellers, why not give it a go. Ebay might not want us, but Ebid.net does.
HTTP://uk.ebid.net/stores/starlady22...s-for-everyone
What was a decent auction site, is now just another store, getting you comming and going. I've bought off E-Bay 3 times in the past year, and twice received Bogus (counterfeit) goods. Before if a seller Needed to Sell, and was willing to give it up for pennies on the dollar, it was a good deal for someone else, if it was Not fake. Now it is just like a pawn shop, with sellers selling things at or above what it cost new, hoping you are uninformed and do not have the energy to research it farther. I now ignore ALL "Buy IT Now" ads, and only look at them if they are a "No Reserve- Auction" at a fair starting price, comming from an individual.
E-Bay could actually fix this by Separating All Stores, Companies, Pawn Shops, and other entities listings, from the Individuals. And allow a payment system that does'nt Double Dip. Government should step in and say that it is a "Conflict of Interest" to own BOTH E-Bay and Paypal, And charge for both services!
Bill, Father of Greed
I am/was a 500+ 100% powerseller on Ebay and yes, I hate them with a passion I really do. Every single change they make is geared towards them making more money for themselves and noone else and I hate the way they dress it up as being anything but that ...
I also happen to know that the way Ebay/PayPal handle money between themselves is illegal but exceptions are made for them (and amazon's market apparently) so don't think that the government don't have their snouts in the trough either (shock) ...
As soon as they ballooned the fees on selling software (way back) I knew it was the beginning of the end and that it was obviously being 'influenced' by stores such as Game who were being crushed by sales of 2nd-hand software ...
I haven't bought from Ebay in over a year now and I won't if I can help it. The bottom line people is that if you want something 'better' then YOU have to pay for it by giving your money to someone else even (especially?) if it means you paying out more than you would if you were using Ebay ...
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