That's exactly
what you'd expect them to say!
Knights Templar to Vatican: Give us back our assets
The Knights Templar are demanding that the Vatican give them back their good name and, possibly, billions in assets into the bargain, 700 years after the order was brutally suppressed by a joint venture between the Pope and the King of France. If the Holy See doesn’t comply, the warrior knights, renowned for liberating the …
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Monday 4th August 2008 14:28 GMT Torben Mogensen
What is the link?
Between the original Templars and the organisation that makes the claim? Any organisation can call itself "The Knights Templar" or some derivative thereof, but that doesn't mean that they are legitimate heirs of any assets the original Templars might have had, no matter how closely they model their organisation on the original.
In any case, historical claims are suspect in any case. Denmark might as well claim to get the city of York back, as it was founded by the Danes and "unrightfully" taken from them by the Saxons. Once a certain period of time has passed, current occupation of land or material assets is what matter.
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Monday 4th August 2008 14:28 GMT Anonymous Coward
"smashed"
In Spain, the order did survive intact, albeit with a name change, so this bunch could be legit if they are who they claim to be (the Knights of Christ even kept the same logo, like a red Iron Cross). The brutal suppression only really took place in France, and even there the only knights to suffer were those who refused to confess or who withdrew their confessions. The majority of individual knights simply took some penance and joined the Hospitalers. In Germany, a challenge to trial by combat resulted in the order being hastily declared innocent while in England, where the order had always been very close to the crown, the king deliberately dithered to allow the knights to escape to freedom in Scotland, which he would come to regret later when they took up arms against him.
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Monday 4th August 2008 14:49 GMT Anonymous Coward
The way It was explained to me
in my (admittedly jewish) school was that the knigits templar where a bunch of racist greedy arse hole frenchmen and deserved everything they got.... which was disbandment and the knowledge they ballsed up the middle east for everyone.
obviously thats a pretty one sided view, but I cant help but wonder why they think they deserve their "good name" back after everything they did.
for the first time ever Im on the side of the vatican...
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Monday 4th August 2008 14:49 GMT Anonymous Coward
Real property rights vs Intellectual Property Rights
Well here we have an interesting case. A group suing to get back their REAL property back from 700 years ago.
Not a hope in hell of it happening, since the witnesses from that age are all dead, the documents are largely non existent and their claim to have the original rights is unprovable after so long.
But it does raise an interesting point, since the copyright lobby is determined to extend copyright indefinitely.... if you can't determine ownership of *real* property after 700 years, how will you determine ownership of something more vague, intellectual property rights?
700 years is only 5.8 generations of copyright under the present Sony Bono system. It's already not that long.
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Monday 4th August 2008 15:11 GMT Steve Renouf
@Historical Claims
"In any case, historical claims are suspect in any case. Denmark might as well claim to get the city of York back, as it was founded by the Danes and "unrightfully" taken from them by the Saxons. Once a certain period of time has passed, current occupation of land or material assets is what matter."
Yes. Exactly. Otherwise, all those Europeans whose forefathers stole land from the native (Americans, Africans, Australians, Maories, etc., etc.) would have to fuck off back where they came from!
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Monday 4th August 2008 15:30 GMT 2FishInATank
2nd Hand Biro Business?
"....they discovered only a small asteroid inhabited by a solitary old man who claimed repeatedly that nothing was true, though he was later discovered to be lying." HHGTTG/DNA
So the Knights Templar are in fact the source of Zaphod Beeblebrox's highly profitable second-hand biro business?
Seriously - we need a Zaphod icon.
And the proper Mark Wing-Davey Zaphod....not the godawful Sam Rockwell version
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Monday 4th August 2008 15:52 GMT Zygyk
Smacked in the Gobface
Ha ha... sneakily obtuse as ever, the "Secret Knowledge" is hidden in plain sight cast like pearls before swine who roughly grasp it, through it to the ground and trample upon it as if it was so much crud. Shame on you.
It is of course the mindblowing, but true, assertion: "nothing exists". Reality is, in fact, what Schrodingers cat experiences before the box is opened.
And you lot thought it was a tautology, non-sequitur or worse! Gad is great.
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Monday 4th August 2008 16:08 GMT James O'Brien
Why do I need a title?
Earlier this morning Abstergo, a company formed from the Knights Templars, announced that they were giving up the Animus experiments seeing as all the "subjects" kept going mad. Insteead they are just going to "ask" the catholic Church for their "Piece of Eden" back so that they can continue on the path to world domin......erm peace.
They are atleast asking nicely this time instead of making war with the holy land. Reasons for this change of tactic may be related to the 500 year old unsolved murders of 10 of their top commanders. These murders have continue to haunt them to this day as they (Abstergo) still havent managed to bring peace to the world. History must ask itself, "What would the world be like today if they had succeeded?"
/ok Im not willing to spend anymore time on that.
Mines the one with the blood soaked feather on it.
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Monday 4th August 2008 16:18 GMT Anonymous Coward
Erm... what law covers "orders"?
I mean, seriously.
First of all, even if we accept that this lot are a genuine continuing faction of the original Knights Templar, we also know for sure that they were not the only faction to continue after the split, so if we are to use corporate law, then we must see the disestablishment of the order as a demerger. As a single party, this body cannot claim ownership of all the assets of the order.
But that assumes that the order of the Knights Templar was a corporate body to begin with. Do we not recognise the Knights as merely a business unit operating under the Holy See? They had the same tax privileges as any other part of the church (ie no taxes paid to the host country, only to the Vatican), so I hardly see it as qualifying as a wholly-owned subsidiary.
If they were a wholly-owned subsidiary, then it might be claimed that the wind-up of the Knights Templar was bad governance. However, the assets would still be the property of the Holy See -- the only claim that modern law would be likely to support is the claims of any creditors of the Knights (the liquidators should have repaid all debts before removing the assets) and unfair dismissal claims from individual knights.
The assets of the order were the assets of the order -- not the personal belongings of the employees (knights) of the order.
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Monday 4th August 2008 16:30 GMT amanfromMars
Vorsprung durCH TechnIQ ...... via Swiss Guardians/Switzerland Network Testing
The Knights Templar and the Vatican in a Coalition of the Willing and Enabled, would be AI Potent Force against Usurpers and Usurers of ITs Holy Grail Base Technology.
United would they be Squared in Power rather than Divided and Halved in Control. A USB for UBS and AI Net of Ubiquitous Neutrality?
Of course, it is....... 42 Bring Order to Chaos and Freedom from ITs War Mongers/Guilt Ridden Monsters/Fools on the Hill and Conservative NeoNazism.
Eat your heart out, Mr Brown/Rejoice Mr Brown* ..... the Codes are Secured and Enhanced/NEUKlearer and Enriched.
* Prudence favours the Brave and Lion Hearted.
And just in Time .......as always Promised? :-)
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Monday 4th August 2008 18:10 GMT The Avangelist
of course if the Christian/Catholic faith is true
We are all decendants from Adam and Eve who in turn were created by God. God's 1st born son Jesus, stated that we were all one (where the line between science and religion join).........
So in that case I would like the Catholic church to cough up approximately 2000 years profits to all mankind as we are all part of the same family and I haven't had a single birthday, christmas, easter, saints day gift from them for 27yrs.
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Monday 4th August 2008 23:18 GMT Joe
Templars - will you take a check?
Let's assume a very modest initial value of 10 million in Templar treasure.
Now compound that annually at a modest 7% ... for SEVEN HUNDRED YEARS!
This would be a doubling every 10 years, so we have 70 doublings of the ten million or
10 x 2 to the 70th power = 1.18 × 10 to the 21st power.
Thus we have about 1.18 x 10 to the 22nd power million dollars owed to the Templars since we started with 10 million dollars.
$11 800 000 000 000 000 000 000.00 = Eleven septillion, 800 pentillion dollars. Since the annual global economy is only about 150 Trillion..... I hope the Templars will take a personal check.
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Tuesday 5th August 2008 00:01 GMT Anomalous Cowherd
Yes yes.
And then Italy is sued by Tunisa for damage to Carthage during the Punic wars, and they're taken to court in turn by the RSPCA over the mistreatment of elephants.
Isn't there a statute of limitation on this stuff? And anyway, didn't the Templars get rich by sacking Jerusalem? I hope Saladins estate are watching this one.
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Tuesday 5th August 2008 00:01 GMT Anonymous Coward
Time to get real people
Firstly, the Knight's Templar were officially disbanded by the Catholic Church, via a Papal Bull. As a military order that was solely answerable to the Pope it was his prerogative to do this. Once a military order is disbanded and in the case of the Templars completely destroyed that order ceases for all legal purposes to exist. Despite the fact that many members of the Knights Templar did escape to Spain, England and other parts of Europe and the Middle East the order as it was no longer exists therefore anyone claiming to be a Templar or descendant of a Templar does so in name only. It would be like me claiming to be a descendant of Saint Nicholas because my name is Nick and saying oh I'd like billions of dollars of church funds and St Nicholas's day off from work evey year because...welll...I'd just really like it ok...
As fascinating as the history of the Templars is that is all it is, history. As for the significant holdings that the Templars had they now belong to the Catholic Church who can do with them as they please since they are the legal owner. The fact that they were taken by force in some instances is insignificant since at the time that was perfectly acceptable. The majority of the Templars holdings were donated or purchased with plunder from the Crusades which was also perfectly acceptable practice at the time.
It is also worth noting that there will probably never be a time that the Knights Templar needs to be reactivated since the Catholic Church will probably never need the services of an army. The only military presence in the Vatican are the Swiss Guard and are there for the protection of the Pope and other ceremonial duties.
This is just another silly lawsuit by greedy people.
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Tuesday 5th August 2008 00:59 GMT Chris G
So?
There are no racist, greedy arsehole people currently buggering up the middle east?
And as for the vatican. We have inside the Holy Grail An Holy Hand Grenade.
Then did he raise on high the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, saying,"Bless this Oh Lord, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy" And the people did feast upon the lambs and toads and tree sloths...... Look yer holyship just give us the dosh or we're gonna blow the crap out of you ! Alright?
Signed A Templar
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Tuesday 5th August 2008 08:43 GMT Anonymous Coward
Knights Templar
Were the first credit union if you will.
They would stash gold at various cities, and then travel back and forth carrying slips of paper that would allow money transfers to take place (this way merchants could only be robbed of their goods).
The paypal, google checkout, amazon checkout of their day if you will.
They gained vast power doing this, and so, got hated by the various Kings, who were the driving force behind dismantling them, with a nice kick back to the Catholic Church for doing the deed (remember they even had a medeci pope or three - so hardly pure are they, though of course that was a few hundred years later).
I say they storm the Vatican, that would make for good TV.
Alternatively they just claim patent on paypal :)
Oh, and the crusades good excuse for looting gold really.
And for the conspiracy theorists among you :
http://www.ovrlnd.com/Cults/invertedcross.html
Rock On Pope.
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Tuesday 5th August 2008 08:43 GMT Anonymous Coward
the six degrees of IT (or Paris Hilton)
OK, I think I have this figured out...
This applies to IT because:
1) The Templers butted heads with the Vatican and were essentially executed by the French.
2) The French were hilariously satirized by the French, in Monty Python’s “Quest for the Holy Grail”.
3) Most civilized nations despise the French and make fun of them.
4) Most IT folks love Python (the comedic troupe).
5) If it’s even remotely news worthy, as related to the world of IT, it will appear in “The Register”.
6) It IS henceforth IT related.
Now the Paris Hilton angle:
1) Paris Hilton has been heard uttering the phrase: “OH GOD!!! OH GOD!!!” (whether or not she worships or even believes in a supreme being, one can assume that the “God” she is referring to, is the Abrahamic God, who represents Judaism, Christianity and Islam).
2) The Templers were killed on orders from the Vatican, by the French.
3) Paris Hilton shares an eerie first name as a famous French City that would prefer to not be associated with Ms. Hilton, for obvious reasons. (Even the French have some standards).
4) Ms. Hilton loves all things “fashion” related, originating from France.
5) The readers, reporters and editors of el Reg have a strange fixation with Paris Hilton, as either a target of humor, a genetic mutant or a general source of amusement.
6) So, if it’s even remotely Paris Hilton worthy, it’s bound to appear in The Register.
Mine’s the one with “On the Highway to Hell” on the back of it…
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Tuesday 5th August 2008 08:43 GMT Anonymous Coward
Nothing exists
... sounds like a translation error while translating from a romanic language into English. For example in French the phrase "rien existe" can mean either "nothing exists" or "none exists" especially when appended to a sentence such as the one presented here. Similar situation with Spanish and other romanic languages.
In other words, this should have been translated as "don't expect any secret knowledge, none exists" or "... no such secret knowledge exists".
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Tuesday 5th August 2008 09:39 GMT Anonymous Coward
@ The reason the claim is being made in Spain
Two answers:
"Is because Spanish judges have a history of making ridiculous judgments & indictments"
Have you been in a UK court of late? Why do you think there is a sharp rising trend in white collar crime? Whoever came up with the idea of lifetime appointments should be made to listen to 2 weeks worth of Cliff Richard at full volume.
"Is because Spanish judges have a history of making ridiculous judgments & indictments of things well outside of Spanish sovereignty."
Let me see. Getting someone arrested in Norway for doing something that is NOT a breach of Norwegian law, but is a breach of US law. Remind you of anyone?
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Tuesday 5th August 2008 11:21 GMT Anonymous Coward
Amazing
It is amazing how almost all commentators bashing the order and the church. In a small village way up the mountains of Lebanon (Cedar Mountains); there lies an old church where the Kinghts use to come an dpray. Those knights lived among the christian populations (which they were amazed to find such a community). These small communities resisted and fought (and they still do) the advancing hordes of the Arab Muslims from Arabia who brought nothing but death, submission and the Dimmih, destroyed churches and turned them into mosques etc...
You see the Knights were not angels and those whom they fought were not angels either. Yes they did mistakes (like every fighting army in the history of humans) and the opposing factions they do did a lot of atrocities against the local non muslim population and erased their identities and some of them these days call themselves Arab.
I don't blame you; for the ignorant west has a fear of criticizing Islam and the Arab. You can bash the Christians and the Jews as you like cause you know no one will issue a Fatwa against you or suicide bomb your country to submission.
To me, all this ignorance is AMAZING.
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Tuesday 5th August 2008 16:37 GMT amanfromMars
Would I lie to the Pope in Rome? No way, Jose.
"After all the suspense, The Plan turns out to be a shakedown of the Pope.
Nooo!!!
The Universe needs a better scriptwriter.
But bringing amanfromMars and Abulafia together leads to illumination." ..... By Destroy All Monsters Posted Monday 4th August 2008 17:39 GMT
Crikey, Destroy All Monsters, that was very close to spilling the beans about how the Never-Ending Story has been Reverse Engineeered to ITs Original Originating, as in Creative, Source.
And Danegeld is not a Shakedown, it is a Virtual Investment Vehicle with Guaranteed FailSafe Returns.
You have got Pope Benedict XVI e-mail address by any chance, have you?
RatzingerJL@vatican.org?
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Tuesday 5th August 2008 20:36 GMT Anonymous Coward
@Harry Stottle
Sorry lad, but there was no American state until the end of the 18th century - the English, Dutch, French, and Spanish states were responsible for all of the looting and carnage in the (now) US from either 1494 (Columbus invades ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H explores Puerto Rico) or 1513 (Ponce De Leon explores Florida coast) through to 1776 when the US was founded. You should read the book "1491" by C.C. Mann, and learn a bit about what you Europeans did to the Indians.
So tell us Harry, how much of your standard of living are you willing to give up in the name of justice? And in your calculations, don't forget your debts to the Arabs, Jews, E. Indians, Africans, etc. that were plundered by the Empire.
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Tuesday 5th August 2008 22:04 GMT Anonymous Coward
Templars
The only country with regard to the Catholic Church that could still in their eyes legitimately have Templars is Scotland as the Papel Bull that dissolved the order was never in truth promulgated there.
After the battle of Culloden a Knights Templar Grand Cross was recovered from the body of a Scotish noble thus giving rise to the implication that in the mid-eighteenth century an organised group of Templars still existed in Scotland.
When Louis the 16th of France was executed a man jumped on the platform supporting the guillotine dipped his hand in the monarchs blood and sprayed it over the crowd shouting "Jaques De Molay thou art avenged." This gives rise to the plausable belief that a group of Templars still existed in the early 19th century in France.
As the Poor Knights of Christ and the Temple of Jerusalem were an order only answerable to the Pope personally when the Pope dissolved the order he had every right to do so.
The only ecclesiastic military order that still legitimately exists from the time of the Crusades are the Knights of the Order of St. John sometimes referred to as the Knights Hospitaller. This order did take some Templars into its fold just prior to the Pope dissolving the Order of the Poor Knights of Christ and the Temple of Jerusalem.
This is a storm in a teacup I know but an interesting one never the less. By the way if anyone does know a bona fide Medici please let them know there is a bank in Italy that owes them rather a lot of money.
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Tuesday 5th August 2008 23:30 GMT ur2die4
@Would I lie to the Pope in Rome?
"But bringing amanfromMars and Abulafia together leads to illumination"
When I didn't want no pigeons there weren't long and looked at sea. myself a trenchant way home, we wanted to her, to be thought I had lasted all through the stone bottle from a cross temper.
"And Danegeld is not a Shakedown, it is a Virtual Investment Vehicle with Guaranteed FailSafe Returns."
The stranger, calling out in the right hand. After receiving the young man from whom held tight to IP, it was a penknife to which thee violently plunged into him.
And they held tight to be let him to nine.
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Wednesday 6th August 2008 08:48 GMT amanfromMars
Internet Explorer type Device ....... AIdDynamIQs and Virtual Dynamite.
""But bringing amanfromMars and Abulafia together leads to illumination"
When I didn't want no pigeons there weren't long and looked at sea. myself a trenchant way home, we wanted to her, to be thought I had lasted all through the stone bottle from a cross temper.
"And Danegeld is not a Shakedown, it is a Virtual Investment Vehicle with Guaranteed FailSafe Returns."
The stranger, calling out in the right hand. After receiving the young man from whom held tight to IP, it was a penknife to which thee violently plunged into him.
And they held tight to be let him to nine." ...... By ur2die4 Posted Tuesday 5th August 2008 23:14 GMT
Yes, well, QuiTE . In the Absence of any Further Source Illumination, I shall Follow my own Discourse ....... "PPS. Should that prove Difficult 42 Presently Understand, please File away for Future Reference and Enlightenment, as more of the Program and ITs ProgramMIng Bites and Leverages Mutually Assisted Direction." ... http://theregister.co.uk/2008/08/05/apple_not_perfect/comments
Are you BetaTuringTesting, ur2die4, ur2die4? Success would be very Noble, to say the Least, and definitely Front Page News.
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Wednesday 6th August 2008 10:31 GMT William Old
@NickyTheFish
> Despite the fact that many members of the Knights Templar did escape to Spain, England and other parts of Europe...
NickyTheFish, pay attention at the back there... if they'd gone to England, they wouldn't have been "escaping", because England was sympathetic to the Papal See and supported the persecution (and execution) of the Templars. They actually went to Scotland, where many of their graves are still visible (very numerous around Argyll and Loch Awe).
Just as well, as Templar cavalry helped to rout the English at Bannockburn - without them, Scotland might well have lost this decisive battle.
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Wednesday 6th August 2008 12:46 GMT Anonymous Coward
we are marching for Jerusalem!!!
That is why we need to deploy military personal in key cities in Italy for fear of immigration... the Templars are coming back to take the Pope to Jerusalem? And meanwhile we still need to clean the site for any Saladin remnants...
I can really fell the heat here...
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Saturday 9th August 2008 08:45 GMT elderlybloke
Tempars and the Crusade
About 1090 the Pope got the Knights to go off to Jerusalem and kill Muslims, instead of killing Christians at home. More killings as the Christians took it that as the Pope said killing Muslims was good , that killing Jews was also what he wanted.
As a reward for killing,looting etc. in the Holy Land , they would have their sins forgiven and be assured of a place in Heaven.
That was a offer they couldn't turn down.
Peace and Joy to you all.
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Friday 15th August 2008 15:16 GMT Anonymous Coward
@Andrew Abdul-Malek
I'm sure it will all become clear. After all, the catholic church have taken care of everything- the words their disciples hear and the songs they sing. The pictures that give pleasure to their eyes. It's One for all and all for One- they work together for God's Son. Never need to wonder how or why.
Sorry if the above is a bit messed up, I'm in a rush...
Okay, so it's 100 years out and a bit contrived. But hey, they're probably not the descendants of the Templars anyway. Lets go the German route and find out using Trial By Combat!
This topic is closed for new posts.
Biting the hand that feeds IT
