EU emissions trading to include airlines

The European Commission has welcomed the positive second vote in the European Parliament in favour of including airline emissions in the EU Emissions Trading System. From 2012 all flights within, to or from the EU will be included in the trading scheme. So airlines will either be able to sell their allowances if they do not …

[Mike Street]

Hypocrites

The EU can lecture me on greenery when they themselves stop wasting so much flying their parliament between two places for political expediency.

These people are not doing anything useful to address the problem, just something that can be spun as looking like it might be useful to people who are ignorant of the real effects. Carbon trading has just given large companies a windfall profit - there is no evidence that it causes an actual drop in emissions. Guess who pays for that.

I think the green lobby is largely to blame. For them, if it hurts the consumer it's good, whether it actually has any effect at all.

Mine's the hair shirt, thanks.

[Bill]

Cold starts

So does a TV have to run with the choke out for a bit until it has warmed up, thus consuming more electricity?

[Anonymous Coward]

Low quiescent power = good thing

"The Commission wants, eventually, to reduce standby consumption - first to 1W by 2010 and then to 0.5W by 2013. "

This really isn't a bad thing. For too long consumer products have been designed to minimize manufacturing costs (hence all the offshoring of manufacture) and not TCO. Industrial/commercial sector have looked at TCO for years now and spend extra money on _design_ (shocking concept) and then money on production engineering.

One small gadget which eats 5W on standby costs ~£4.50/yr at todays consumer lecky prices. On a £25 DVD player from Tesco?! TCO people, TCO! Should'a bought the £500 Pioneer one! That's how to justify it to the wife anyway...

[Anonymous Coward]

Load of old BS

So CO2 makes up 0.04% of the atmosphere, and taking away the standby button will mean what exactly? Why dont we have a referendum on global warming and put this rubbish to bed once and for all. With the price of everything shooting up (3% my arse), jobs being lost and house prices collapsing who gives a shit that the earth is returning to its long term mean temperature (maybe)?

[John B Stone]

It's not the TVs it's the computers (it's our fault)

Most new TVs have the standby nailed already so this will mostly sort itself over the next few years as old TVs get replaced with digital TVs. My new LCD TV uses less than 1 watt on standby already.

It's computer gear where reducing standby wattage will make a big difference. 10-20w in "off" mode for your desktop computer, printer and wireless router is fairly standard. Note many cheap printers have external transformers that use almost as much power when turned off (at the printer) as they do when turned on (e.g. Lexmark).

[MarkW]

Carbon Trading a scam

Carbon trading is just another scheme (so beloved of Tony Blair) which doesn't reduce the amount of CO2 output but makes a lot of carbon "brokers" very rich indeed.

Carbon reduced in the EU + carbon offset in Africa = constant

It's like asking a thin friend to diet for you.

http://risingtide.org.uk/resources/factsheets/carbontrading

http://www.theecologist.org/pages/archive_detail.asp?content_id=710

[Red Bren]

@AC - Load of old BS

"Why dont we have a referendum on global warming..."

Well I'm going to vote against it, but how do you propose we make the C02 abide by the result?

[Elmer Phud]

Con Trick

This has nothing to do with reduction - just another version of sending our crap overseas to screw up other places. It's just another commercial deal where men in suits make a fortune by transferring blame.

Similar to making us feel guilty about leaving the telly on standby while advertising boards and screens remain brightly lit.

[Perpetual Cyclist]

Don't worry, the carbon won't be traded...

...because the planes will not be flying. Oil is $135 a barrel and at those prices mass market aviation cannot survive. All the major airlines are cutting planes, flights, routes and staff. If oil stays at these prices, we will see a 60% reduction in global aviation in three years. Of course, the price won't stay at $135, it will go higher, thanks to the peak in the global oil supply. How much higher depends on how fast demand (mostly in the form of jet fuel) is destroyed by the collapse of the airlines....

If you want to fly, do it THIS YEAR.

[lIsRT]

Tax Avoidance in Flying Boats...?

Could airlines get around this by using international waters instead of runways on land? - with an exciting speedboat dash at beginning and end to ensure the aircraft never gets inside of wherever the boundary is now.

Perhaps more feasible if your country has a coastline...

Probably not economical at the level the allowances will be introduced at, but it sets a limit on how expensive they can get before there are valid alternatives.

[Anonymous Coward]

Return of THAT empire?

In the Roman empire people used regularly to travel 000s of miles between centre and periphery. They didn't all have horses, chariots, or someone to carry them.

So, is this an excuse for EU governments to dole out big fat contracts for lots more TGVs and autobahns, at the public's expense, all accruals to the banksters?

[Anonymous Coward]

Problem solved.

>"reduce EU electricity consumption by 50 TWh, or Denmark's annual consumption."

Get rid of Denmark?

>One small gadget which eats 5W on standby costs ~£4.50/yr at todays consumer

>lecky prices. On a £25 DVD player from Tesco?! TCO people, TCO!

>Should'a bought the £500 Pioneer one! That's how to justify it to the wife anyway...

That'll work out in 106 years. Wife not good at maths then?

How do they define "standby"?

[Britt Johnston]

Worth something?

So can Silvio buy El Italia for a Euro, and more than pay off the redundancy costs with CO2 coupons?

[fred]

Check out the site

Bit confused about the cold start bit. All our electy equipment execpt the water heater is never on standby. Its turned off at the plug including the broadband modem, router and telly. These items are only in use for between two and three hours daily. Have I missed something magical about standbys on television sets? (Mine is an LCD and used lots of cool carbon screwing chems to make it)

[Red Bren]

@JonB @@Chris Morley

"That'll work out in 106 years. Wife not good at maths then?"

Are you on some century long fixed-price deal with your 'leccy supplier? If recent energy price rises of ~20% continue, Chris could break even in 20 years. Even with inflation at 5%, he can still break even in less than half your 106 year estimate.

Did you go to school with his wife?

[Rukario]

@fred

What about the fridge? What's that smell... the milk going off perhaps? (Conversely, the fridge is the only thing I keep on standby; the water heater is oil-fired and I have it set to turn on when I need hot water.)