back to article eBayer slaps $714 price tag on $630 in cash

In an attempt to game Microsoft's new Live Search Cashback program, an eBayer has put a $714 price tag on $630 in cash. Here's the listing in all its glory: eBay Live Search game Pay cash for cash That's right, $630 in cash can be yours for $714. But if you access the page through a Live Search ad link that returns 35 per …


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  1. Brian
    Thumb Up



  2. Tracy Fair

    Ebay is going down the tubes.

    Q2, will be horrible, which is why ebay is scrabling everywhere to get CASH. They are even using Skype, to steal money from members, without their permission. Charging them for a service, they didn't order and they have to wait weeks, for the refund?????

    Ebay is causing sellers to leave in droves, with the new policy changes and tens of thousands are upset and will be protesting at Ebay Live 2008, this week.

    The changes are idiotic. Sellers can no longer leave negative or neutral feedback, even if a buyer bids, wins your item, ingores your emails and doesn't pay. What right do they have to leave any feedback, if no transaction has taken place? We have sellers, bidding on competitors items and ruining their feedback, just to get a boost, on their own items.

    Ebay went in and retroactively turned all neutrals, to negatives. Neutral, means just that, how can ebay call neitral, negative? They swtarted giving new discounts to people with good ratings, but they knock them down first, with the neutral change, so that many can't even meet the requirements, for the discount.

    That is not the worst of it. We have thousands and thousands of sellers, who have closed their stores and we KNOW that the listing count should be going down. But, we have uncovered the source of the raised listing counts and I can't see it being anything, but fraud.

    The seller BUY or was taken on by ebay, right at the time ebay KNEW they were going to lose sellers. They are using, to pad the listings, to make it look like the count is up, when it really isn't. We have found thousands upon thousands of fake listings, that have no description and you can't even buy them. I found them ending tens of thousands of listings early, saying they are no longer available for sale and then immediately relisting them. Most likely to keep the sell through rate up and then relisting them again, to up the listing count 2 fold. They don't even pay any fees, being owned by ebay, so all the listings that they are padding, aren't even bringing in revenue???? Something isn't right here!

    Isn't this making the stockholders think that listings are up, when they really aren't? We have all the proof documented. I even have it documented of when I was talking to Ebay Live Help and asking them about all the ads, being ended early and it immediately stopped, when they found out that we knew about it.

    Please help us in exposing them, for what they are trying to pull. The boycotters should have a fair chance, to show what is really going on, behind the scenes.

  3. Matt West
    Jobs Halo

    Me Too!


  4. Alastair


    The first step to exposing the eBay fraud is to proof read.


  5. Solomon Grundy

    Ebay Sucks

    I've made a lot of money on the Ebay marketplace, in fact I've had a better career than most of the people who read this site based just on Ebay - but emotion aside, Tracy Fair (who posted above) does have it right. Ebay is desperate and are doing things that take away their advantage and rob/humiliate Sellers. Neutrals, negatives, and the new found ability of Buyers to ripoff the Seller makes Ebay a merchants nightmare.

    I've got about 40K of merchandise up right now and depending on the result, I may be opening up a retail store and ditching Ebay. The costs (up front and unassumingly built in) have eliminated many of the advantages of selling online. Brick and Mortar here I come...

  6. Solomon Grundy

    @ Tracy Fair

    A lot of the comments you make are valid - but no one is going to take them seriously if you don't take the time to spell things correctly and use moderately proper grammar.

    I'm not attacking you...just something for you to think about.

    Also I'd be interested to look at some of the fake listings you found. If you've really found them it's significant evidence of market manipulation and the world should know. You can post your examples at El Reg or just email Cade Metz (click on the "by line" below the title of this article) and he'll get the word out. It's on you to prove what you say, get on it...

  7. James

    Ebay = CAPITAL crap or crap CAPITAL?

    Sifting through results in ebay (esp. electronics) is like reading through your spam folder.

    Granted there is a lot of good stuff on there but most of the listings are IN CAPS AND APPARENTLY ARE <><><><><-------THE BEST TH!NG YOU HAVE EVER SEEN EVER!!!! ------>>><><><>>><<<<<

    Very annoying. They need some sort of quality control/retardedness filter. And looking at the feedback comments everyone is either: A++++++++++++++++A+A+++A++A++A++++ or SCAMMER ARRRRRGGGHHH STAY AWAY!!!!111!!!

    Is this an example of Americanis(z)ation? Ebay could do with a bit of the old British Reserve. eg. "This seller/buyer was ok, they sent the goods post haste and gave feedback when asked."

  8. Trevor Pott Gold badge

    @Solomon Grundy

    EBay sucks for the buyer too. Too many scam/fraud merchants. The buyer might be able to game the system to rip off the seller, but finding a seller on eBay who isn't trying to rip off the buyer is almost impossible. It's a question of signal-to-noise ratio.

    When eBay started it was a great place for people with some excess bits to unload then on the wibble, and for the frugal to find a great deal. It had another niche in allowing the exchange of some pretty rare/niche items, or items that were no longer in production.

    When the scam artists and the greedy rip-off merchants settled in, the buyers looked elsewhere, because eBay had lost its value. Buyers had to spend far too much time hunting to find anything that wasn't a rip off. (Shipping cost scams are another common one.) Understand I am not saying any auction that isn’t “a great deal” is a rip off. I am saying any auction that is selling a used item above the retail value of a new item of the same make and model, or auctions that are fraudulent are Rip-offs. The number of these compared to “good auctions” is simply unreal. This signal-to-noise ratio is the thing that drives most people, especially the uninitiated, away from the site.

    If eBay wants to restore the confidence of buyers and sellers, it would but some bodies in place to review the auctions listed, (or at least review a fixed % of auctions by every seller,) and punt the ones that are obviously crap. It would also cut the scammer buyers off at the knees. EBay needs to realize that the *quality* of the merchants it has on its site matters far, far more than the *quantity* of merchants on its site.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Down

    eBay fees are a ripoff

    Has anyone noticed how high the fees are for selling say a £200 computer on eBay now? How can they justify being more expensive then say, Autotrader who have real overheads!

    It's not like they're even running anything like a support phone line, I couldn't even find an address to write to complain to them.

    I wrote to the OFT about their fees as I believe their dominant and don't have any fair competition. The OFT replied and said that using their formula eBay UK's turnover isn't high enough to justify investigating. Simple reason for that - I reckon eBay UK only report enough earnings to cover their UK costs, the rest goes via Luxembourg.

    I compared the costs to QXL who are a UK listed business and actually turn a profit with 25% of the charges - how!? Obviously eBay are overcharging.

    They need to be brought down a peg or two IMHO.

    Don't even get me started on PayPal....

  10. Fatman

    eBay, just plain sucks

    eBay is nothing more than a greedy 800 pound gorilla (kind of like Micro$haft). You see, its is THEIR sandbox, and if you do not like they way they 'play'; your only alternative is to find another sandbox.

    That is what frustrated sellers are doing. eBay can, (and often does) yank your auction without any notice. You end up submitting all kinds of documentation to get re-instated.

    PayPal, eBay's wholly owned payment subsidiary is as equally offensive.

    But, it is their sandbox. Don't like it, WALK AWAY QUICKLY!!!

    The only way to get eBay's attention is to hit them in the wallet.

  11. Quantum


    Wow, I had no idea so many felt as I do.

    I've traded with the same eBay account since 1998, and in the past year or two things have just gotten intolerable. Mandatory Paypal, mandatory upgrade to Paypal Premium, scammers everywhere, ridiculous denials of the eBay security hole, etc.

    I've just bought a printer cart that I paid too much for, so I'm not going to pay. I never would have thought of doing that before, but now there's no seller neg.

    eBay has fallen apart without Meg.

  12. Quantum


    Why hasn't Google started an auction service yet?

    Not that I relish working with the ones who have the worst privacy policy and are responsible for Adwords customr service, but somebody needs to do it.

    Also, I agree with the above comment about shrill titles and feedback. It's embarrassing to be American these days, with the Rightists having taken over.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward


    Oh goodness, Ebay. It was a lot more fun when it was the universal garage sale for old knick-knacks and most of the sellers and buyers were average people. Now it's hard driving power sellers offering overpriced "buy it now" deals on wide screen TV's and complaining buyers with more money than sense. Except for the genuine collectibles and curios (stamps, coins, old computers, memorabilia, etc.) almost all the stuff there can be found cheaper without much looking. How tiring it all is...........

  14. James O'Brien

    I know im late but dear god


    Its sad that you cant make this shit up sometimes

  15. dave

    To eBay, or not to eBay? That is the question.

    If you can be bothered to weed out dodgy sellers by trying to verify their validity (try to arrange to view the item in person is probably good enough), eBay offers a service that is worth using - even if it is mostly for fantasy browsing!

    PayPal fees, and more importantly the setup and maintenance fees, for sellers are peanuts compared to using your bank to process credit card payments from occasional customers.

    So, all things considered, there is a whiff of 'bubble economics' about eBay and PayPal, but they are both genuinely useful and convenient services, worth paying for.

    I'l offer you £10 for that coat, because it's raining and I used to have one just like it.

  16. George Johnson

    Not really worth the bother anymore...

    It really has become intolerable on eBay, over the last 2-3 years. Selling stuff is a minefield, with the right to put negative feedback having been taken away. I only sell little bits of my old crap for a few quid, but you have to be careful to put so many caveats in your listings so your arse is covered when it inevitably goes belly up, just like a genuine business! If I wanted to run a business, I would. When you get turned over as a seller, you simply have to wait two weeks, raise a "got fecked over" call so at least you might stand a slim chance of getting your listing fees back, but no sale and lots of wasted time, messing about, just so you can empty your spare room.

    Sorry, but in future I think most of my junk room tat will end up outside the local Age Concern shop or in the recycle bin, at least that way someone will appreciate it!

  17. Karl Rasmusson

    Let's not forget...

    the PayPal-only fiasco that eBay are still trying to force on Australians despite the ACCC saying NO in a draft ruling. But of course, eBay true to form, are disagreeing with everyone. They're right and everyone else (as usual, labelled 'the vocal minority' by eBay) are wrong.

    Thousands of Aussie sellers and buyers, sick of eBay doing everything they can to alienate them, are leaving this arrogant company and it's evil sidekick PayPal.

    In a couple of years, I bet 'eBay' gets added to the dictionary as a verb, meaning to hate one's customers. and 'to Paypal' will mean 'ripping off with extortionate fees, in the guise of being safer and more secure.' :-)

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Gates Horns

    What PayPal and E-Bay Needs....


    Yahoo! Used! To! Have! An! Auction! Service! which was a fairly good competition to E-Bay. It was never nearly as big, but it got the job done and was comparable. They closed their doors on June 3, 07. There isn't anything to compete with E-Bay any more.

    PayPal... I know of many good merchant account and credit card processing providers, but all of these are geared toward POS (Point of Sale, not Piece of S**t) sales, or geared toward you (the seller) entering the customer's credit card information into a virtual online terminal or via telehone. There isn't really anything that can compete for taking credit cards over the internet on your behalf, via their own secure and PCI-compliant servers, and delivering the funds to you easily. And integrating into a website as smoothly...

    My $0.02 USD. If you do know of good, viable, thriving alternatives to The Duo, speak now!

    ...Gates, 'cause he knows all about competition

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Dead Vulture

    try alternatives, its a big internet!

    The online classified market has grown massively over the last few years.

    If you stuck with Ebay when they first ignored the demands for better security then you are foolish.

    If you still stuck with them after mandatory paypal account, then even more fool you!

    Here are some others to try and I do not work for any of them.


    the gumtree


    The ONLY way to tell ebay its wrong is to leave and take your business elsewhere.... since you haven't then you can't really complain when they treat you like dirt.

    Ebay users are bunch of whiney Lemmings.

  20. Geoff Mackenzie

    A+++++++ Cockup

    Would screw again.

  21. max allan
    Thumb Down

    This appears to be a dead duck already

    If you use MS Live to search for anything, you don't get any eBay results. I tried searching for cash and found cash registers, nothing from eBay though. If you don't find it on the MS live search, the cashback doesn't apply. So, even if this idea might have worked, it probably won't now. eBay aren't even listed as a "store" on the search site.

  22. Anton Ivanov

    Very low markup actually

    This is a standard practice in legitimisation of dirty money (aka money laundry). The money is laundered through buying unnamed checks, winning lottery tickets, etc.

    By the way, this is a fairly low markup for this type of service. The usual markup is >20%.

    Also, I would not be surprised if the seller is Inland (Internal) Revenue.

    Me coat.

  23. Adam Foxton
    Thumb Up

    I don't see what the problem is...

    I find an item on eBay, I check out the seller out for anything up to 2 minutes and decide whether or not they're a scammer and whether or not I should go for it.

    So far, I've had one problem in 5 years (last week, graphics card) and that turned out to be a genuine mistake (well, they claimed it was. Still, they didn't benefit from it so I'd class it as a "probably genuine" mistake); my money was refunded and my card details were never sent on to the buyer because I used Paypal.

    Whine and bitch all you like, Paypal IS safer and more secure than a normal credit card transaction as you know what's coming off your card, you know what it's coming off your bank balance as (so you can easier search for "anomalous costs") and, cruicially, your credit card details aren't sent to the seller. Okay it's not 100% secure, but on the Internet nothing is. Other things haven't _been shown to have_ been hacked / hackable yet.

    If you don't like eBay don't use it. And Quantum- if you take the item without paying you're a thief. Scum. Exactly the reason that eBay is going downghill. Why not just clone the guys credit card details or hack his paypal account (as it's apparently so easy) and steal the rest of his cash?

    Oh, and to drag these comments kicking and screaming back onto the topic, good on them for finding and exploiting the loophole.

    Though you've gotta wonder how many times you'd have to do this to cover a single copy of Windows.

  24. andy

    I Have left ebay

    The last couple of things I bought I managed to get for a bargain. Then the items didnt turn up, the seller said they'd posted them. I have deep suspicions they didnt want to sell them cheap.

    Especially as one of the sellers suddenly found the item after 2-3 weeks, when I asked for proof of postage. He 'thought his mate had posted it'...

    Anyway, my own issues aside, ebay should 'grow some cojones', do away with 'buy it now', abolish any automatic progs that put last second bids in and just have a straightforward, honest-to-goodness auction.

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Money laundering.

    $10* ebay'll pull it claiming money laundering regs.

    (* Zim dollars)

  26. Anthony
    Gates Halo

    The irony is ...

    ... this article is actually about Microsoft Live Search having to buy users, yet all the comments are about how bad E-bay is. Have E-bay really sunk THAT low? It can't really be Saint Bill Gates time, surely?

  27. Luke

    Have to agree!

    I had a brief spell with ebay about 3 or 4 years ago. Which @ the time was fine. Since then I haven't bought anything from ebay... being very much IT focussed as I work in the industry I try and keep in the loop with whats going on and am a regular here @ El Reg (don't post often tho) so have heard through friends who buy and sell alot on ebay and have just complained more and more, and having read this I can tell you 2 things for sure :

    A. The more bitching about it and lack of actual action (i.e. people leaving ebay and taking business elsewhere) is only gonna mean nothing will happen... despite moaning, and complaining, I can put money on the fact that the some (if not most) of the people above will still keep selling on ebay regardless of all the issues purely because they either can't afford to stop selling there or its too much hassle to actually list elsewhere.

    B. Ebay are too big to care, most people despite grumbling will still keep listing and buying stuff! Your like the little bugs that get splattered on the windscreen of their big van, the only way something will get done is if they are reported to people like the competition commission (in the UK) as clearly stated above there isn't much alternative if you want to actually hit a wide market (I know other sites have been listed, but how good are they if your not showing your merchandise to the widest audience...)

    Oh and to the guy who says he has proof of fraud, go to someone who can help you with that... thats the kind of thing that WILL make a change, but isn't any good unless its broadcast to as many people as possible, remeber word-of-mouth is and always will be THE best marketing tool in the world, and if everyone keeps grumbling and not speaking up then nothing will happen, ebay could be destroyed (or forced to sort themselves out) with that kind of information if you use it right.

    Not having a dig at anyones point of view... just food for thought, having gone through an irritating battle with an airline over them ditching us for 48hours and lying to the UK press I know what corps can be like...

  28. zyxyzx

    Guilty until proved innocent

    Another issue, which I've been the victim of in the past, is the idea that eBay is infallible.

    Essentially, if someone in eBay decides that you are flogging stolen goods, or pirate software, or are in violation of some sort of license agreement, your listing is pulled.

    No ifs, no buts, no warnings or appeals. Even when you produce documented evidence, in the form of invoices, license agreements, or certificates of authenticity, eBay will not capitulate, let alone apologise.

    And god forbid you should try and query exactly what grounds they have for ending the listing. They simply keep emailing the same terms and conditions (the whole thing!) without highlighting any particular section or pointing out how you are in violation (probably because it is impossible to show the terms breached if none have been breached).

    In short, eBay's word is law, and there is no higher power to appeal to.

    Roll-on the day my bricks and mortar shop is completed!

  29. Dave Graham

    @ Solomon Grundy ... Let he who is without sin....


    One of the problems about being critical of another's grammar and spelling is that one looks slightly foolish as a paragon of virtue if one displays one's own inexactitudes.

    For example, Solomon Grundy makes comments about Tracy Fair's reasoned and thoughtful statements and yet his own contribution could certainly do with a few extra commas; for example, "... If you've really found them, it's significant..." and "Also, I'd be interested...".

    He writes "... Ebay a merchants nightmare" when he means "Ebay, a merchant's nightmare" (possession), "...use moderately proper grammar.. " when he means "...use moderately correct grammar.." (clumsy) and even ".. "by line".. "when he means "...byline... " (spelling, common usage).

    When I was at school, it was considered the height of superficiality to comment on the mode of expression rather than the content. If the first step towards exposing a fraud was indeed to make sure that the whistleblower's document conformed to some general standard for proofreading, then Deepthroat would certainly have given his information in vain.

    Grammar, spelling, standard constructions and the whole panoply and richness of the English language combine to make communication of ideas and concepts easier and less ambiguous. I'm sure that I make mistakes often when attempting to pass on my ideas and thoughts in writing, impoverished as they often are. It seems a shame however to confuse the medium and the message; to consider the one at the same length as the other.

    "I'm not attacking you...just something for you to think about."


  30. Graham Bartlett

    How to avoid getting scammed on eBay

    1) Don't buy from anyone whose other items include "1p recipes" or similar scams to artificially raise their ratings.

    2) Don't buy from anyone whose address is a PO Box - no way to track them down if they do rip you off.

    3) Don't buy anything where the auction time is set to 1 day (or less) - they're trying to get their stuff to artificially show up on top of the listings.

    4) Unless you can establish that the seller is a genuine business specialising in what you're interested in buying, don't buy anything where the picture is a promo pic instead of a picture of the actual item taken by the seller.

    5) When sending anything through the post, always use recorded delivery.

    I've had two occasions where people have sent me crap - one pirate CD and one pair of fake mics. The first guy refunded me after I made a fuss. The second one, I managed a full house of the above screw-ups (including sending it back without recorded delivery, at which point he claimed never to have received it). I only lost £20 (£60 cost, £40 back from Royal Mail) so not too bad, but it was a lesson to me.

    You don't have to avoid using eBay - there are plenty of legitimate buyers and sellers out there. You just need to use a whole lot of caution and not leave any loopholes.

    Oh, I suppose I should add a sixth point: If there's a possibility of an item being fake, make sure you know how to tell the difference between the real thing and the fake.

  31. Lyndon Hills
    Thumb Down

    @ Me Too!

    Posting from AOL are we?

  32. rd232

    paypal alternative

    Google Checkout seems a good alternative for sellers who have the choice.

    I don't know if QXL were really profitable, but at any rate as of May they no longer operate in the UK.

    I never liked any of the ebay alternatives anyway for selling my old tat (never had any problems with ebay myself, but the mounting horror stories have just about put me off), might give oodle a go though.

  33. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Open your eyes!

    People, stop bitching about ebay, paypal and co, if you want to get rid of your old tat, you can do so very easily, doing the environment a service, and just maybe make someone a very happy bunny, AS WELL as possibly finding something you really really need or want!

    F-R-E-E-C-Y-C-L-E! Your item will go to someone local, you can see what things other people are offering locally, no stupid shipping prices and rip-offs, fantastic for your Karma too!

    Also, the more people that leave ebay and give away decent stuff on freecycle, the better the quality of the goods on freecycle, and the better your chance of getting something worthwhile.

    The fact Freecycle uses local groups also means there are not thousands of spam bullshit ads to wade through, so it is much easier to see what is genuinely available.

    To date I have given away a small fridge (I actually wish I'd hung onto it now, it would have been perfect for the summer, fitting a full case of 24 tins in exactly), an old laptop, and an old 28 inch TV (all in working order) and have picked up a weights bench with weights in mint condition, a HUUUUUGE corner desk which would have cost me £600 new, again in mint condition (well, it was... it's got solder and stuff all over it now), and a range of other small bit's and pieces...


  34. Kevin Gurney


    "I've just bought a printer cart that I paid too much for, so I'm not going to pay. I never would have thought of doing that before, but now there's no seller neg."

    So why did you buy it ? Ebay shows how much it'll cost, you accepted it and you've now decided that since you've seen it cheaper elsewhere, teh seller has to lose money ? That's exactly the scenario that sellers are up in arms about now they can't leave -ve fb.

    I've been an Ebay and Paypal user for a few years and haven't had much in the way of rip offs. Few buyers doing what you are but for the most patr Ebay has been fine. Paypal is another story and ended up with an FSO complaint to get back £2500 a couple of years back.

    Sadly, for quite a while you've had to accept the use of Paypal to buy or sell on Ebay as until you get stung by them, you always assume it'll never happen to you.

  35. Ian Johnston Silver badge
    Thumb Down

    The latest eBay genius ...

    ... as of today, is to make impossible to browse categories. I liked looking through "Cars, parts and vehicles" -> "Classic car parts" -> "Triumph" for bits for my Herald. But they won't let me do that any more: it has to be a search.

    If I search on "Triumph Herald" I miss all the items posted by sellers who thought that being in a "Triumph" category made "Herald" enough. If I search on "Herald" I get every Christmas Carol CD in existence.

    It's an utterly incompetent move which shows that nobody at eBay bothers to think though or test what they do.

  36. Chris Cheale


    Even Freecycle is going downhill these days.

    OFFER: 1 bicycle - rusty, no wheels

    WANTED: Kawasaki ZZR1100 - mint condition - taxed

    Too many "WANTED" notices now and unrealistic expectations - there seems to be fewer people actually offering anything and far more "wanting stuff" - and often the stuff they want is unreasonable.

    The only wanted notices that should be allowed are for things that people might not realise there's any call for - old cardboard boxes, bits of wood, audio cassettes or PC components (as examples).

    ... and I have actually Freecycled old cardboard boxes (moving house), bits of wood (someone was building a chicken coop) and audio cassettes (someone had an old car).

  37. R M Crorie

    @Graham Bartlett

    > 2) Don't buy from anyone whose address is a PO Box - no way to track them down if they do rip you off.

    Yes, there is - PO Boxes are not accommodation addresses, you only need to telephone the Royal Mail sorting office for the post town at which the PO Box is held (you don't need to give your details), and ask for the delivery address (they won't tell you the name of the customer, just the delivery address). With that, you have a starter for 10 in tracking down whoever lives there or has their business there.

    If anyone tells you that these details cannot be given out (or can't unless you state who you are/why you want these details), politely ask to be put through to the Operations Manager for that sorting district so that he/she can tell the numpty responsible not to be so stupid and get out the details you've asked for.

  38. ShaggyDoggy

    Re: Guilty until proved innocent

    Been there, had that.

    I bought a branded Kingston 2Gb usb memory stick off ebay (from a reputable big-name seller) and paid with paypal.

    A few months later I decided to sell it on ebay.

    Within hours of it going on my ebay account was suspended due to 'inappropriate activuty'

    They even suspended my paypal account as well, even though I was not asking for paypal payment for the item (and isn't paypal a separate entity under the law even though wholly owned).

    It took 2 months to get back.

    Some twerp from Kingston flagged my item as counterfeit, apparently they have a program that searches ebay listing looking for "Kingston" and then they tell ebay it is counterfeit - whether it is or not - because they don't like "thier" product being on ebay - well sorry guys I bought it so it's MINE

    the whole thing stinks

  39. Anonymous Coward

    Re: P.S.


    "Why hasn't Google started an auction service yet?"

    err, 'cos them owning (fle)eBay might have something to do with it?

    "... It's embarrassing to be American these days"

    :p say no more.

  40. Quantum


    Quote by Adam Foxton:

    "And Quantum- if you take the item without paying you're a thief. Scum. Exactly the reason that eBay is going downghill. Why not just clone the guys credit card details or hack his paypal account (as it's apparently so easy) and steal the rest of his cash?"

    Don't you have any sense? How in he world do you think I'm going to take the printer cart without paying? What could you be thinking? (or not)

    Quote by Kevin Gurney:

    "So why did you buy it ? Ebay shows how much it'll cost, you accepted it and you've now decided that since you've seen it cheaper elsewhere, teh seller has to lose money ? That's exactly the scenario that sellers are up in arms about now they can't leave -ve fb."

    Really? You want to have the details? I'd searched on C4194, and there was only one, so I bought it while I could. There were plenty of C4191/2/3's, but only one 4. Then I discovered that there were lots of C4194As, cheaper because that's how most list them apparently. Well, I want something cheaper (der), and I can have it now.

    Think I don't know buyers not completing is part of the problem? Do I have to explain in detail all the things that have happened to me as buyer and seller which always seem to turn out against my favor? Well of course I know not completing is part of the problem; I acknowledged this in saying, "I would have never thought of doing this before".

    But now I can, and it's about time something went in my favor, like it or not. With this new Right-Wing philosophy having taken over American culture, we have become an adversarial society, but what the Rightists have forgotten to take into account is that everyone can play their nasty game.

  41. Snail

    Paypal secure?

    @Adam Foxton

    Paypal may tell you they are secure, but in the 20+ years i've had credit cards, i've had 2 problems with dodgy payments. One was dodgy Shell petrol payment, that was all to do with dodgy garages, the other was my paypal account getting hacked.

    When my paypal account got hacked, paypal weren't very interested. They had all the details about what happened, but couldn't be bothered to investigate. I got my money back, but the hacker is still out and about hacking accounts, and im now unable to use ebay, because im not happy that paypal is secure enough to hold my bank details.

  42. eddiewrenn

    eBay downhill

    Such a shame, I loved ebay four or five years back - I would sell and buy on it in equal amounts.

    For odd reasons I've used it less and less over the last few years, but it's a shame to see a company I really (and that went for PayPal too) slide down the drains. I can't believe the lengths they're going to to shoot themselves in the foot.

  43. Anonymous Coward
    Paris Hilton

    The death of ebay and paypal

    Most of my friends have left ebay. It used to be good fun all those years ago, but now it's getting ruthless. There's been rumours of money laudering, dodgy deals and gangsters being involved in many of the trades (What's suprising about that?).

    Recently, my paypal account was frozen - no reason other then "suspected security breach" was given. I had over £400 in there, I could put money INTO the paypal account, but NOT take it out - Mmmm. When I thought about it, the paypal accounts only need email address and password....not the safest combination, my online Bank account requires 4 parts of identification, not the simple 2. Yes, I have now closed ebay and paypal accounts.

    And those who complain about bad grammar...GET A LIFE, this isn't a book, it's a comments page.

    Oh and the Paris angle? Well, I was outbid on a night of steamy sex with her.

  44. Anonymous Coward

    Sellers don't need to leave -ve

    If a buyer doesn't pay you, you submit a non-paying bidder alert against them.

    If they keep doing this eBay will close or suspend their account anyway, so problem solved - probably more efficient than -ve feedback thing.

  45. Dean H.
    Dead Vulture

    I switched to Craigslist years ago

    I used to use eBay, but found that Craigslist is so much better that eBay is just obsolete. If I were trying to find or sell some exotic item that needed a national audience it might be worth dealing with eBay, but with a little extra work you could probably still get better results on Craigslist even then.

  46. Anonymous Coward

    silver and gold

    I am almost certain that E-bay may be committing a crime by allowing foreign merchants (or importers, or local merchants) to sell silver and gold without hallmarks.

  47. Dave Graham

    @ Quantum - the philosophy of incompetence


    You said "Do I have to explain in detail all the things that have happened to me as buyer and seller which always seem to turn out against my favor?".

    Well yes please as we could learn by your mistakes, possibly; and if there isn't anything to learn, we could have a bit of a laugh perhaps.

    I've been using ebay and paypal for the last 4 years or so and found that there is certainly more than a reasonable level of unreserved cretinism in their employees but isn't this true of almost any organisation? As they become more accountant driven and lose sight of their core abilities then what always happens will surely happen again; a competitor will appear with a better fit to the market and ebay will die.

    They perform a useful function which is turning my unwanted belongings into money at a far more profitable level than I could do on my own or even by running a shop. The exposure is fantastic, the customers are generally fine and the hours are excellent so what's the problem? Worried about frozen paypal accounts? don't leave money in them and have a couple of accounts; worried about hacked accounts? maybe take a bit more care over phishing frauds or password length.

    I agree ebay are arbitrary and capricious and sometimes frustrating to deal with but just compare them with the alternative ... which is what?


  48. NozeDive

    Can't he ...

    Can't he just buy it from himself?

  49. Quantum
    Thumb Up


    Hey, I just found my printer on Craigslist, the one I'm seeking toner for.

    They were giving it away free, because it's almost a cubic meter and 125lbs! Couldn't sell it online. Heck, I would've given then $50 for it, but it was free. Needed the color toners carts, which I'm getting for under $20 each on fLeabay.

    Also bought a Macbook Pro on CL, and got a deal. A year later sold it on eBay for the same as I paid, but got royally ripped for fees. Still angry about that.

    Gotta sell my ancient Alps Microdry ink carts on eBay though, to at least get something for them.

  50. Anonymous Coward
    Paris Hilton

    wow they suck.

    HAHAHAHA.... Bribery is illegal in some states! M$ just love doing the dogs leg of a job on everything... See you in court 'again' M$ for unfair practices and so forth. Another reason not to use live search.

    -- Who thinks M$ is nearly as smart as Hilton? --

  51. Buckets McGaughey
    Jobs Horns

    Alternatives, Jeremy?

    Not likely. Gumtree is owned by... eBay. Craigslist? 25% owned by eBay (who have resorted to suing them to get their way). If anybody else gets big enough to worry them, they'll bully them too. They're effectively a monopoly, which is why they're pulling the sort of stunts they have been of late.

  52. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I've not used ebay since my account got hacked.

    I was a fairly small time user on eBay. Sold a couple of things, bought a handful of items a year.

    Then, my account was hacked. I can shoulder some of the blame for using the same password on too many sites - That's the only way I can think that they gained access to my account, but eBay's conduct from there on has led me to never use them again.

    The hacker listed 8 presumably non-existent, Xbox 360's for sale on my account, money to be sent by anything other than paypal to Hong Kong. Fortunately, the hacker wasn't clever enough to change my notification email address before posting the listings, so I noticed as soon as eBay mailed me the listing confirmations.

    I logged in, deleted the listings, changed my password and contacted eBay straight away to let them know what had happened. They then suspended my account, whilst they investigated.

    There then followed the longest ever palarva that took over 12 months to resolve. Despite informing me umpteen times via email that they would cancel the listing fees that the hacker had run up, they saw fit to pass on my details to a debt collection agency - Intrum Justicia - for the recovery of these unpaid listing fees.

    I had great fun with guys at IJ. They'd phone me twice a day asking to speak with me. When I confirmed that it was me speaking they then always asked me for my postcode - "for data protection reasons".

    At this point, I always declined to tell them, citing that I wasn't in the habit of giving out my personal address details to strangers on unsolicited phone calls. This seemed to confound them and they often got angry. They threatened to send a 'field agent' round my house several times. I always asked how they were going to do that if they were unaware of my address. "Oh, we know where you live" they replied.

    "Then you don't need me to tell you my postcode then do you." Was my reply, followed by "Can you please contact me in writing, on headed note-paper, detailing what it is you actually require of me."

    They always said, "we have written to you several times".

    "Well then, you obviously don't have my address, as I've not received anything from yourselves whatsoever". This was the truth too, having moved homes during the period that my account was hacked. The subsequent suspension by eBay had prevented me updating my personal details, which was a shame.

    I kept all of the emails confirming that the listing fees run up by the hacker would be cancelled, waiting for the day that a court summons might eventually arrive. Unfortunately, after 12 months or so, IJ gave up phoning me, and I feel so much more lonely now without their twice daily phone calls. Actually, Its just occured to me that I changed my mobile number at some point, perhaps that's why they went away.

    Anyhow, my eBay account is still suspended, and I've no inclination to chase them to re-open it.

    Posting as AC just in case IJ and eBay decide that they want to re-open the case file on me for their £30 of hacker run up debt.

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