back to article T-Mobile doubles 0870 call costs

In a remarkable reading of Ofcom's new rules on 0870 numbers, T-Mobile has decided to double the price of such calls for most of its customers, rather than cutting them as Ofcom intended. Ofcom decided that 0870, 0871, 0844 and 0845 numbers should be considered "normal" calls, and charged at the "normal" rate, but the …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Down

    Profiteering

    Ofcom rules or not Ofcom rules, at the end of the day, TMobile have chosen to double the price of the calls to those numbers, it's plain old fashioned profiteering and they're just using Ofcom as an excuse to justify it.

    This stinks.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Alert

    Way to go mobile operators

    The "Watch the dogs" or Watchdog is powerless... ha! Nice to see the quango is looking after the mobile operators.

    O2 recently dropped 0845 numbers from my call allowance. It has been there for nearly 20 years and "poof", just like magic, it is now gone.

    Thankfully, I didn't kill my call package with O2 and move to T-Mobile this year and I won't be in a rush now. T-Mobile customers need to think about moving onto one of the other networks to show them how unacceptable these new "business models" are to the folks buying their services.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Happy

    Off we go

    Well at over 100% increase in the cost of the calls (depending on the call plan), this presumably means customers can get out of their 12, 18, or 24 month contracts early?

    Do we get to keep our phones too to use with the operator we change to, as well?

    Might be a good deal, though perhaps not the one Ofcom was intending...

  4. Rick Leeming

    Just as my contract comes up for renewal...

    I don't ring 08xxx numbers all that often, 2 or 3 times a month is normal though, and usually for 20 minutes or so per call. I begrudge paying extra anyway, but trebling the cost isn't exactly going to keep my business unless there are lots of other freebies put in place. Free Web n' Walk may swing it, but only if they allow me enough that I don't have to bother about me connecting the lappy up.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Unhappy

    Customer Services

    T-Mobile customer services told me yesterday that the price increase was 'nothing to do with them' and that 'Independent Companies' were responsible for the increase and not T-Mobile. When I asked to be released from my contract, give this 100% increase in a charge for a service, I was told my T&C's allowed them to do that and I couldn't leave. When I asked for a copy to be sent to me, I was told they couldn't send me them and I'd have to approach Carphone Warehouse, as that's where I'd bought the phone! A total joke. I'll be complaining in writing and when that's met with the same 'play dumb' attitude, trying to go via CISAS. They need to be made to feel the pain for abusing their position.

  6. dervheid

    WANKERS!

    Utter ones!

  7. Ron Eve
    Unhappy

    Yet Another UK rip off...

    I really do despair. I mean, no one denies a company the right to make a profit, but it should be expected to do this in a reasonably fair way (no really, I haven't been smoking anything...).

    But this is just another way to squeeze the punter's already flaccid spheres completely dry. Ever since we realised that the actual cost of a phone call -to anywhere - was negligible, we've been able to beat up the telcos for better prices, especially on so-called 'long distance' calls.

    Now with 0870 etc they can hide behind the fact that these are 'special' numbers even though to the call routers there's absolutely no difference in the type of call from ordinary numbers.

    It's getting really difficult to avoid these money-generators - err - non geographic numbers, but it's still worth checking No to 0870.

    http://www.saynoto0870.com/

  8. Stephen Gray

    There are other networks

    Vote with your feet its as simple as that.

  9. Eek

    Not quite right

    The question I'm asking is since they've changed the terms and conditions why are they being so awkward when I ask them for my contract to be terminated.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    A rip off and nothing else

    T-Mobile must be kidding. That's just exploitation at it's finest. I think that's sealed the deal for me, I was happy with T-Mobile, but I shall be off on principle even though I don't call those numbers from my mobile.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Stop

    Taking the P***

    that's all!

  12. Julian
    Stop

    Tosser-Mobile

    Looks T-Mobile has come up with an interesting interpretation. Will other network operators follow?

  13. Simon Waddington
    Go

    Finding the landlines

    Here's a very helpful website which helps you find landlines corresponding to these 0870 numbers:

    http://www.saynoto0870.com/

  14. This post has been deleted by its author

  15. voodooray

    Change in contract == Early contract getout?

    Not so according to their craftily, and rather cunningly obfuscated T&C's. More info here:

    http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/200414/end-t-mobile-contract-early/

    Though some have reported success. Some Jedi mind tricks over the blower appears to be the key here...

  16. David Perry

    T-mobile customer here

    Just read this piece, am shocked! Not had a dicky of word from them about it, and my latest bill arrived a few days ago. I worked out this morning that the £45/mth iPhone tariff on o2 will work out as better value for me (in terms of minutes, texts and fact you get unlimited data/wifi), and I get the (8gb) Jesus phone for free :) My t-mobile contract is up for renewal by end of July so looks like I won't be renewing now.

  17. gautam

    Leave en-masse

    Just leave T-mobile en-masse (boycott) and they will see sense. It still intrigues me these days when most providers' national calls are free (included) where's the logic of non-geographical numbers being seen as a "savings" or "local rate" feature.

    I think it purely exist as a money making machine for such companies.

    Talkalk has a plan that also includes free 36 international destinations (incl OZ & NZ - 8000 miles away) as free. Why would anyone want to pay such stupid rates?

    Bastards all!

    And Ofcom ? Worse still.

  18. Serrio

    Pattern Blue

    Seems about par for the course.

  19. Gavin
    Stop

    Why use 08**?

    I remeber seeing a txt from T-Mobile last night but hadn't looked into it until now.

    For the past couple of weeks I've been using numbers from the 'saynoto0870' (www.saynoto0870.com) website, not used it much but has local numbers for DVLA which have been put to good use.

  20. Steve

    Ah well...

    At least now I know not to dial 08xx numbers from my mobile. Well played T-Mobile.

  21. dervheid
    Alert

    Here's a better idea...

    Why the fuck don't OFCOM ban the use of these stupid "non geographic" numbers altogether?

    Then the rip-off's being carried out by companies, call centres and even some GP's surgeries will stop!

    Or is that just too fucking SIMPLE for the half-wits at OFCOM?

    (Rant over, pills kicking in nicely now, ah.......)

  22. Adrian Jones

    Typical toothless OFCOM

    There's no reason for 0870 numbers, other than revenue generation for the company that owns them.

    In some cases (Carphone Whorehouse, I'm looking at you) all local branches are given 0870 numbers, the better to fleece their customers.

    About time that local rate numbers were charged at local rates and included in price plans, 0870 and premium rate numbers were withdrawn and any phone company that charged for calling a freephone number fined.

  23. Glynn Williams
    Thumb Down

    Effing T-Mobile

    "...If we are excluding them from allowances then we are required to make it explicit to customers."

    As a Flext customer, I received the following Text from T-Mobile yesterday:

    "From 28 July we're increasng the charges for some numbers beginning with 08. For full details please visit our website at t-mobile.co.uk/08"

    What a laugh... Thanks for increasing my bill T-Mobile - Having been a loyal customer since 2005, I thought I'd get a better deal... Not a shafting!

    Welcome to T-Mobshaft!

  24. alistair millington
    Flame

    I'm with T-Mobile

    They sent me a text the other day that says.

    "From 28 July we're increasing the charges for calling some numbers beginning with 08. For full details please visit the website.

    I am stuck in an 18 month contract and this stinks. They were a very good provider but this brings them down to being as much good as O2.

    ...It highlights how useless Ofcom is, that they can't stop T mobile doing it and can't regulate it.

  25. jamie flubert
    Happy

    Calling 08xx numbers for less

    Just in case there is anyone who doesn't realise that a large proportion of 08xx numbers have a fixed line equivalent, there's a website called www.saynoto0870.com that tells you what they are. Using this means it is possible to wipe most inclusive-minute-busting-calls off your mobile bill.

  26. AJ
    Alert

    "why it is that our regulator is prevented from regulating"

    Because Ofcom is a pile of rubbish and never does sod all to help consumers out, which is the reason why operators such as t-mobile take the piss...

    ... Why doesnt t-mobile simply stand in front of the Ofcom office and stick their 2 fingers up at all who work there.

    OFCOM ARE POINTLESS!!!!!!

  27. Wonderkid
    Happy

    Simple, use Skype Out...

    ...isn't it less or free that way when you call one of those 08XX numbers?

  28. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Cue mass contract cancellation

    Recently got a nice new smartphone on a T-Mobile contract?

    Want to keep the phone and exit the contract penalty free?

    Ts and Cs have changed not to your benefit.

    Here's your opportunity......

  29. Bucky
    Coat

    SMS

    I received an SMS yesterday stating 'From 28 July we're increasing the charges for calling some numbers beginning with 08.'

    I always knew 08 numbers were outside of my Flext allowance but come on, doubling the price!? Every company I deal with have an 08 number.

    So I pay a stupid amount to call 08 from my mobile, and I'm with Virgin Media at home. I'd better sell the car to call the bank on 0845....

    Ofcom, have as many teeth as a gummy bear!

    Mines the one with 'saynoto0870.com' printed on the back.

  30. Luke Mahon
    Thumb Down

    "To make things clearer for our customers"

    According to T-Mobile's "08" website (http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/services/uk/08/) this was a move to make things clearer for T-Mobile customers like me.

    Well, thatnks T-Mobile, I've got the message loud and clear, I can stay here and get ripped off or move to O2 and get a new 3G iPhone for free, hmm...

    What a great business plan - No wonder there is no customer loyalty in the Mobile service provider market any more.

  31. Anonymous Coward
    Stop

    Ba$tards!

    I'm a long time T-Mobile customer (it was One2One when I signed up!!) and they have just lost my business.

    I don't appreciate profiteering at my expense.

  32. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Regulation?

    "Ofcom cannot mandate that these calls be included in allowances, however, if we are excluding them from allowances then we are required to make it explicit to customers.”

    So if the regulating body can't tell them what to do who the bloody hell can?0

  33. JayKay

    Say no!

    Everyone should have this in their bookmarks...

    www.saynoto0870.com

    Used it tons.

  34. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Got the SMS about it yesterday...

    which told me to go to t-mobile.co.uk/08 - which neatly explained: "To make things clearer for our customers, we have aligned our 08 number charges with local and national calls to follow the latest Ofcom guidelines. These calls aren't included as part of your allowance in any of our price plans."

    So, rather than the current flat rate for these numbers (0870 / 0871 / 0844 / 0845) of 10p minute, we're now charged variable rates up to 30p per minute. Hardly "clearer".

    And I suspect the Ofcom guidelines weren't intended to increase charges, but to make them fairer.

  35. Phil Hare

    This could be a good thing...

    I use T-mob, and I am pissed off about this. However, hopefully this move and associated bad press will encourage other providers to specifically include 08 numbers in their tariffs as a PR exercise, eventually forcing T-Mob to follow suite.

    Unless, of course, this isn't a perfect world we're living in...

  36. Anonymous Coward
    Dead Vulture

    Other networks?

    so what is the position with the other networks? Which should we switch to?

    Even large business to business companies are not above 0845 - ITV moved all of their staff to non-geographic numbers last year. Then of course their ad-sales people had to be given 0203 numbers because international clients couldn't contact them. Then they had to deal with the continual complaints from UK customers (some of whom found the premium rate numbers blocked by their office switchboards.

    They've now moved back to a proper local number.

    It's time Ofcom started actually regulating. Premium rate revenue generating numbers should be forced to be called just that.

    All 084/7 numbers should have to carry a warning wherever they are printed

    "This is a premium rate number which generates revenue for the company you are calling. This number will not be included in any inclusive plan you have with your phone company".

    The dead bird. Because Ofcom are obviously a lame duck.

  37. Andy Mabbett

    WM Police

    My local police force, (West Midlands) refuse to provide me with a geographical phone number, insisting that 0845 is "the same price" as a local call - for the number on which they would like me to help them by reporting suspicious activity or non-emergency crimes in progress.

  38. Chris Morrison

    T&C's

    How exactly are they getting out of people ending there contract? I got a nice new phone from o2 and a reduction on my line rental when they decided to charge for 0870 numbers. Phoned to cancel my contract 3 months in but I got such a good deal I decided to stay.

    Charging for 0870 is a change in T&C's to your detriment = get out clause.

  39. Max

    Wow - something the USA got right that the UK didn't

    I'm surprised, in the US, an 800 number is free from landlines (the owner of the number pays for the calls) and an outgoing call to an 800 from a mobile is just counted as regular minutes...

    This is a total screw job for UK consumers...as the owners of the 087 numbers of course will keep them around for their call centre/customer service lines...since it will probably keep their call volume lower.

    The solution is get a landline and only call the 08xx numbers from that. Do they even have landlines these days? :)

  40. citizenx

    My response to T-Mobile (sent yesterday)

    Good morning,

    I have received a text message today stating that as of July 28th 2008 T-Mobile will be increasing its call charges to numbers beginning with 08.

    As a user of these numbers I do not believe it to be acceptable to increase call charges to numbers which were introduced to be either free of charge or charged at a "local rate".

    Having briefly reviewed the T&C's (V55) on your website and believe that under clause 2.11.2 and 7.2.5.2 I am entitled to cancel my service without penalty. I have this morning spoken with one of your colleagues in the retention team who has confirm I'm on T&C's version 52 which I do not have a copy of at present to review further.

    To quote -

    7.2.5.2

    7.2.5. A cancellation charge won’t apply if You are within Your Minimum Term and:

    7.2.5.2. You are a Consumer and the change that We gave You

    Written Notice of in point 2.11.2 or 7.1.4 above is of material detriment

    to You and You give Us notice to immediately cancel this Agreement

    before the change takes effect;

    2.11.2

    2.11.2. If You are a Consumer and the change is of material detriment

    to You, We will send You Written Notice one calendar month before the

    terms and conditions are due to change. The new terms and conditions

    will apply to You once the calendar month’s notice has run out unless

    You terminate Your Agreement with Us within that notice period. If

    You do this You won’t have to pay any cancellation charge that would

    otherwise apply, see point 7.2.5.2.

    I take the view that an increase to these charges is indeed a material detriment to me and consider your text message notification as written notice.

    To this end I would request you cancel my CTN* (x), without penalty in line with my rights under the T&C's and the raft of consumer legislation in this area.

    I would be grateful if you could come back to me ASAP to confirm your position on this matter.

    In order for you to access my records in line with the Data Protection Act I have included the information you will need below -

    Account Holder: x

    Password: x

    I can be contacted on the above number or by email at this address should you need further information.

    *CTN is internal terminology for a mobile number (I worked for them many years ago).

  41. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    0870 numbers

    "I actually wonder how many businesses who run non-geographical numbers realise that foreign customers (or ex-pats) can't contact them?"

    Are you sure? Having worked in an office with an 0870 number, I've taken calls from America, France, Germany, Russia, South Africa etc. I believe companies using them do get paid, but the other advantage is that the 0870 just maps another another phone line (in the same way a domain name maps to an IP address), which means you can keep the same 0870 number and change your phone line as many times as you like. Not saying it's ok, but that's their POV! (A lot simpler for small businesses than reprinting all of their stationary and perhaps losing customers who don't hear of the change of number)

    "I was happy with T-Mobile, but I shall be off on principle even though I don't call those numbers from my mobile."

    I hate paying more just as much as anyone (particularly since I'm on T-Mobile), but how childish is that comment? Fck DA Man!!!!1

  42. Richard Gadsden

    saynoto0870

    I've tried several times to give saynoto0870 a complete copy of our call plan, with geographic equivalents to nearly a thousand 0845 numbers - and they aren't interested. I'm not typing in a thousand numbers, but we agreed that I'd email a spreadsheet - which I did over a year ago and the numbers are still not up on their servers!

    The revenue we get from 0845 is negligible, but having non-geo numbers is really handy as they can be easily moved to a different line when BT have disconnected one of our offices again. Geographic numbers can't be switched outside their geographical area (that's an Ofcom regulation).

  43. Anonymous Coward
    Unhappy

    Sounds like a joke, but tells us who can't be TRUSTED

    T probably thinks its being clever by doing this, but if I was looking for a mobile provider at the moment, one that wouldn't be on my short list is T.

    It does at least give the other providers an excuse for competitive advantage if they choose to comply with the spirit of Ofcom's intention and include 0870 etc within their own bundles.

    But really, its Ofcom that's at fault, going completely the wrong way about solving the problem. Ofcom should be making it harder for companies to hide between 0870 in the first place, by imposing strict rules -- such as no call queuing or IVR systems except on freephone numbers.

  44. Anonymous Coward
    Flame

    The 0845 retatrds strike again.

    OK can the retard who whinge about 0845's shut the fuck up, you have NO idea what you are talking about.

    The vast majority of business I know that use 0845's (I exclude 0870's in this because they are often rip offs), use them for very good reason.

    For example we have multiple redunancy on all 300 of our 0845's.

    Now what you you pricks prefer?

    1 x 0845

    or to half a dozen different numbers depending on if a fault is occuring, there is heavy traffic, your calling out of hours, you want to speak to a non english speaking agent, work is being perform on that circuit, the place is on fire, etc etc.

    Nope, I think the good old days are best. You have a geographic number and if it goes down because some chimp has put a spade through a line, you wait a couple of days for it to be fixed and try again....then you moan that you haven't been able to get through.

    For most companies the 0845 are the equivilant of DNS entries, there mearly point calls to where you need them.

    0890's cost money, yes businesses get revenue from them, but shock horrors, see how much money it costs to run a 500 seat call centre and you may see why they don't give you the service for free, especially when you paying very little for a service in the first place.

  45. Anonymous Coward
    Paris Hilton

    PR contacts for T-Mobile UK

    I seem to have found some good T-mobile PR contacts here:

    www.opt-development.co.uk/press-office/admin/media-release-files/155/Yahoo!_TMobile_-FINAL_160108doc.pdf

    Specifically:

    Sophia Parviez, T-Mobile PR Manager +44 (0) 7908 208 417

    Brands2life +44 (0) 207 592 1200 - more here: http://www.brands2life.co.uk/

    I think these numbers are included in most cross-network tariffs.

    The local police here have an 0870 number - I guess phone calls make for more paperwork, and, with literacy standards falling, they really struggle with that.

    (Paris - because she appreciates the value of good PR.)

  46. Busted
    Stop

    @Ofcom making it even more confusing.

    Really I don't see a problem with the way it worked before why did they start to mess with it. 084X 087x numbers allow services to be provided free of charge to end users things like dial up, conference calling, messaging services etc. People have only just got their head around this and now Ofcom want to change the playing field again.

    Please just leave it, there was nothing wrong with the old method everyone I know knew they had to pay for 084x 087x numbers outside their plans.

    Thanks Ofcom!!!

  47. Dan Bowtell
    Stop

    Cancelled Web 'n' Walk

    I've cancelled the web 'n' walk on my handset in response to this. I still have a web 'n' walk modem from them but I liked the convenience of having it on my phone as well for checking emails whilst at boring restaurant meals. This isn't just a "stick it to da man" response. I feel they have shown a complete lack of respect for the customer and I don't want to be tied to a contract with a network that changes things in a devious manner. 3 did it to me on my last contract but in the end I ended up getting sent a cheque with no apologies or explanation that covered how much I lost out by.

  48. Law
    Alert

    RE: My response to T-Mobile (sent yesterday)

    Thanks - I will be copy-pasting that into an email soon enough and waiting on pay-as-you-go for the release of the jesus phone. I used 08** numbers all the time because I won't risk my job using company lines. It's costly as it is - now they are doubling the cost I will be ending my contract and going with somebody else, like o2 perhaps.

  49. CJDL
    Alien

    Are Ofcom on drugs ?

    Seriously, they must be !

    Didn't Ofcom introduce the 03xx range a while back, and stipulate that they are to be used to give companies etc a "National presence" (i.e. what the 08xx range was originally designed for), but that the 03xx range was to be charged in EXACTLY the same way as calling a National 01xx or 02xx number ??

    AFAIK, they also said that the 08xx range would be redefined as lower-premium rate, in order to 'protect' those companies that simply use these numbers for revenue generating services, e.g. international calling cards, etc.

    I'm baffled as to why they would now essentially say that 08xx is to be charged in the same way as 03xx.... like, WTF is the point in 03xx now ?

    BTW, most, if not all operators, include 03xx numbers in their bundles. Only problem is that nobody actually uses these numbers yet, as of course if would confuse the fuck out of the great British public !

    Alien, because clearly Ofcom bods have been fraternising with them lately....

  50. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @Are Ofcom on drugs ?

    "Didn't Ofcom introduce the 03xx range a while back, and stipulate that they are to be used to give companies etc a "National presence" (i.e. what the 08xx range was originally designed for), but that the 03xx range was to be charged in EXACTLY the same way as calling a National 01xx or 02xx number ??"

    Wasn't 0345 the predecessor of 0845 ?

  51. Anonymous Coward
    Black Helicopters

    Thank you Ms Reding

    Please let us not lose sight of the actions of our government in Brussels. As always, they will try to hide when they have caused a problem.

    Ms Reding deprived them of their lucrative deal on roaming charges. So T-Mobile are trying to recover the profit from somewhere else. If you were in business, and had a successful "confusion marketing" policy, wouldn't you try it?

    I am a T-Mobile customer, but I won't be in a rush to another carrier, as they will all end up with much the same tariffs eventually. Instead, I exploit the opportunities provided by VoIP. This can be done with Asterisk and other VoIP PBXs, although I use a Fritz!Box ADSL modem/router. Tell your machine that when your mobile phones in, it is to be awarded the privilege of dialing out again after it correctly gives the special password. Then when needing to call an 08xx number, call your 01xx/02xx VoIP number at the lower geographic rates, and then dial again to your 08xx destination at the VoIP carrier's 08 rates. Not as cheap as I'd like it, but sufficient a discount to make it worthwhile.

    AC because I don't want to get on a T-Mobile blacklist!

    Black helicopters because everything is a conspiracy these days!

  52. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Brussels

    If there's a problem with the actions of our Euro-overlords, it's simply that they haven't been harsh enough on our national regulators for letting all telcos and ISPs get away with unlimited* or inclusive* lies for years. Just because they've had one cash cow taken from them doesn't mean that you should blame the regulator when greedy telcos decide to fleece their customers.

    I do like your idea of the Fritz!Box though, perhaps a thorough look into voip over wifi is in order - I doubt i'd notice a drop from the t-mobile coverage around here.

  53. Tulio Campregher

    Use saynoto0870.com

    0870 is a rip off anyway, some companies use it so you pay to complain to them about bad services. Most people these days have National calls for free on their landline or mobile bundle. it should be banned, OFCOM is a joke. use services like saynoto0870.com where you find geographic alternative to 0870 / 0845.

  54. pctechxp

    Think its the same with most networks

    Don't all of them charge for NGNs?

  55. Tom Wood

    @AC 11:35

    Who says 'geographic' numbers can't be re-routed? They certainly can if they're linked to VOIP systems (which most big companies use now anyway, right?)

    Go to one of many companies such as Sipgate.co.uk where you can get a geographic number in the city of your choosing for nearly free. I'm in Southampton at present and quite able to answer calls on my Bristol number. On a corporate scale, until recently I worked for a large firm with many offices, and I could log in to the Cisco VOIP phone system in any office of my choosing and answer my DDI number. (I could be in Birmingham, Bristol, London, Manchester, wherever... and still answer and make outgoing calls from my 0117 xxx xxxx (Bristol) number).

    Anyway... if having a number that 'appears' tied to no fixed place is an issue... isn't that what 03xx is now for?

  56. Christopher Woods
    Stop

    @ Dan Bowtell...

    ... Why did you do that? Web & Walk is the key to dialing 0870 and 0845 out of your inclusive minutes.

    Step 1: Sign up to EQO (or similar pseudo-VoIP service like Gizmo5)

    Step 2: Install handset client (EQO offer Java midlets, a proper WinMo app, Symbian app etc...)

    Step 3: use the bit of free credit you get when you sign up, or top up your account with a little more, and call nearly all 08xx numbers for VASTLY cheaper rates - 1 cent a minute from your EQO credit and the outgoing call to the service's voice gateway (a London number) is included in your geographic rates.

    I've saved at LEAST £15 in the past two months which I would've otherwise have had to pay on top of my regular tariff cost, at the cost of almost nothing (I signed up and received £4 credit, and a little credit for a few friends I invited). I object to dialing any 08 number on my phone out of principle, but sometimes unfortunately it's unavoidable - and I'd rather ring an 08 number this way than call it directly.

    The Web & Walk ensures that I don't pay for the 1kb of data the app uses to prepare the service's voice gateway to connect to the number I've specified when I dial in to it - it's really quite seamless. So, keep the Web & Walk (if you're going to stay with T-Mob!)

  57. Peter Reynolds

    Rogues, scoundrels. cheats...

    So what's new?

  58. Ascylto

    WTF?

    I have never used an 087... number.

    I will never use an 087... number.

    I actively boycott any firm that has 087... numbers.

    I tell firms they have lost my business because they use 087... numbers.

    Every Little Helps!

  59. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Down

    what

    a crock of corporate capitalist bullsh!t - i already get stung occasionally by 08** numbers when i forget that my supplier (t-mobile) isnt a reasonable service provider and just like every other scumbag company out there exists only to fleece you of your hard earned dosh. bollocks to em.

  60. Jeff Deacon

    Re: WTF?

    Maybe that will have some effect, maybe not. Firms that get 087x numbers seem to have the arrogance to shrug off the little people anyway.

    My action was a bit different. I went to http://www.uknumber.co.uk/voip.htm and got an 0870 number to aim at my VoIP phone. I just give that to anyone who insists on my dialling 087x or 084x to get to them. Nothing has changed, but at least Magrathea make a little bit out of it. (I'm not related to Magrathea, except as a customer).

  61. Anonymous Coward
    Paris Hilton

    Won't affect me one bit.....

    ...... on a staff plan with Orange that charges me 2p/min daytime and 1p/min off peak for 0845/0870 and nothing at all for 0800.

    0844/0871? Never needed to use them so don't know how much that costs.....

    However, I also have a T-Mobile phone with web and walk which has 3 months left to run...... phoned an 0870 recently on there when I left my Orange phone at home........ Gonna try and get out of that one now! Mwhahahahaha!

    Paris? Cos I can :-)

  62. Anonymous Coward
    Joke

    Do as we say ...not as we do

    Just thought I'd add that T-Mobile UK do not allow its own employees to dial an 0870 prfix number - why not? Well its cost too much!

  63. citizenx

    Bullshit response

    As a follow up to my email I sent them (posted here yesterday), I have now received the following email (my subsequent response is below).

    "Good afternoon x

    Thank you for letting me know about your concerns about the changes to charges for calling 08 numbers. I appreciate why you've contacted us about this and I'm sorry for any disappointment that's been caused.

    From the 28 July 2008 the price of calling specific 08 numbers will change. To make things clearer for our customers we have aligned our 08 number charges with local and national calls to follow the latest OFCOM guidelines.

    These calls aren't included as part of the allowance in any of our price plans. As one of our Flext customers you're currently being charged 10p per minute. However, as of 28 July you'll be charged 20p per minute.

    Numbers beginning with 08 are used by third parties to enable access to their helplines or customer services. As they're not UK mobile numbers and are non geographic, they're chargeable. This is stated in the non-standard charges in your 'What It Costs' document that forms part of your terms and conditions.

    I'm sorry to hear that you wish to leave us because of these changes. As you're in contract, you would still be liable to pay an early cancellation charge of £x VAT exempt. This is calculated as your monthly line rental until the end of your contract, minus 4%. Should you want to go ahead with the cancellation, please call us on 150 from your mobile. We're available between 7am and 10pm, everyday.

    Please ensure that you make a note of any important information you have stored on your SIM pack, as this will be lost when the cancellation goes through.

    you can rest assured that whilst this may mean an increase to some individual costs, we believe our price plans are the most competitive in the UK for price. We will continue to offer you simple and innovative new tariffs.

    Once again, thank you for taking the time to contact us x. We do value your custom and we hope that you'll reconsider your decision and stay with us."

    My reply -

    "Good afternoon x,

    Thank you for your template response to my query.

    I have already explained that I am well aware of the "justification" T-Mobile have for doubling the prices of calls to these numbers. In effect, that is irrelevant. You could quite easily have made them "simpler" by bundling chargeable calls and returning freephone numbers to being free to call. Now I understand this is a difficult concept for some but for others, it's really quite straightforward. Ofcom have at no point suggested you or any other company increase prices for the consumer. To suggest or imply otherwise (as the tone of your response) is dishonest in the extreme.

    In December when I took out this number I agreed to a specific tariff and the associated chargeable call charges. I most certainly did not agree to the prices you now expect a customer to pay for these numbers.

    Given that you are doubling the price of calls to these numbers I would consider this a significant material change in line with your T&Cs.

    I insist at this point you escalate this within T-Mobile. Failure to obtain a legitimate and satisfactory response will result in a report to Trading Standards, Ofcom, CISAS and any other appropriate body.

    To recap - You have not responded to the specifics of my email (i.e. the legality of your position with the specific references to the quotes from your own T&C's), you have not explained how you feel these do not apply in this situation. I believe I am within my rights to request cancellation without penalty and would once again insist upon this being carried out."

  64. Terry
    Pirate

    Updated V52 T&C's of citizenx's letter

    I received a text message yesterday giving notice that as of July 28th 2008 T-Mobile will be increasing its call charges to numbers beginning with 08. I do not believe it to be acceptable to double my call charges to these numbers.

    I have this morning spoken with an employee in the retention team who refused to allow me to exercise my contractual right to leave without payment of a penalty of £300; he confirmed I am on T&C's V52. Under these T&Cs:

    A cancellation charge is not payable if you are cancelling because:

    (B) we want to increase a charge to you and the increase, (when calculated as a percentage) will be more than the increase in the Retail Prices Index Figure, the RPI (also calculated as a percentage) for the 12 months before the month in which we send you notice of the increase (see 4(g)). We will tell you if the increase will be more than the increase in the RPI. You must tell us you want to cancel before the increase happens; and/or

    (C) you entered into this agreement as a consumer and we have changed these conditions (see 4(g)) and that change is of material detriment to you.

    The T&C’s clearly define charges as ‘monthly charges, call charges and any other charges relating to this agreement or the services’. Your employees seem to be taking the line that these increases apply to an 'optional' service that is not part of the plan, yet your own website states 'The table below will give you an overview of how your price plan has been affected by the change' (http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/services/uk/08/) and my contract makes no such differentiation. Further, I take the view that an increase to these charges is indeed a material detriment to me and consider your text message notification as written notice.

    To this end I would request you cancel my CTN x, without penalty in line with my rights under both the T&C's and the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations.

    Please come back to me ASAP to confirm your position on this matter.

    Yours faithfully.

  65. Anonymous Coward
    Unhappy

    where ur money goes

    The people that really make the money from 0870 and 0845 numbers are the operator - most of the time this is BT or mobile companies. The average end company doesn't make anything (or in the case of 0870 an insignificant amount) from inbound calls.

  66. Robin Weston

    OFCOM advice

    I've just had a nice chat with an advisor at OFCOM, as T-Mobile seem set on not allowing me my contractual right to cancel.

    In short, I have to register a formal complaint with T-Mobile in writing which they have 12 weeks to answer. But I can cancel now, and then formally complain about the early termination fee that they levy (If they follow through on their threat).

    If the complaint is not resolved to my satisfaction I have to take it to CISAS.

    The chap at OFCOM was also very interested to hear that I'd been advised by T-Mobile that OFCOM had "made us put our prices up".

    Finally, can anyone comment on the legality of deliberately obstructing customers as T-M seem to be doing to more than just me? It's clearly immoral, but is it illegal?

  67. Anonymous Coward
    Pirate

    0870 T-MO Suicide!

    Wow I cant believe what i'm reading here- its really really bad news for T-MO subscribers. T-MO have effed-up spectacularly here. This terrible decision is one for the telecoms history books.

    I'm fed up with these 0870 rip off's a particular one is SKY who have you on hold for 40 (YES FORTY MINUTES) before answering. This is downright profiteering and is bad news for ALL customers on any network.

    In reality what goes around comes around. Look what happened with VirginMedia with the ISP tech helpdesk going to premium only now its reversed decision back to normal.... How much damage did that cause them eh?

    If you look closely, quite a few companies are waking up to reality again by bringing their callcentres back to the UK.

    During their lucrative quest to save money they created a monster - Some companies are realising that 'customers wont tolerate this crap anymore' and have taken their business elsewhere.

    I don't mind ringing 0870 if you can get what you need sorted in a few minutes. If thats not possible they HAVE to provide a geo number otherwise its clear what they are up to.

    As for public services like DVLA the use of 0870 is deplorable. I have a landline tariff with free 01/02's and im finding it hard to find businesses who use anything but 08x numbers nowadays. Safe for the telcos to offer free daytime 01/02 calls eh?

    T-MO will be reversing this decision in due course I would say. It will just take a few hundred thousand disconnections to be processed first....

    Maybe one of T-MO's managers will have the balls to stop this implementation before it reaches T-minus 0.....DISCONNECT!

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