Stungun shootout in Colorado leaves slowest man standing

The Taser electric stun-gun's image as a possibly deadly incapacitating weapon took something of a knock this weekend, as it emerged that a man in Colorado - having himself been Tased - was then able to respond using his own Taser to deliver a retaliatory zapping. News reports indicate that the kilovolt shootout took place in …

[Anonymous Coward]

Do electric gunslingers dream of robot horses?

I picture Yul Brynner from Westworld, with his face hanging off, but still coming on, relentless! I can't wait for a taser shootout on the New York subway. All that electricity flying about will probably reawaken Gozer.

[Anonymous Coward]

Taser has become a generic word

Were they specifically Tasers(c)? Or were they just stunguns (which may or may not automatically generate log tickets)?

[Sarah Bee]

Re: Do electric gunslingers dream of robot horses?

And the award for 'most pop culture references crammed into one brief comment' goes to...

[Anonymous Coward]

a distinct falling off

Is it the mellow nature of Boulder, or the degenerate times that we live in, that all parties did not go straight to gunfire? Coloradans used to have a remarkable tendency to settle traffic & domestic disputes with a resort to handguns,

[Neil]

Will I be the first to say it?

What a shocking story....

Mines the rubber one with the built in grounding.

[pastamasta]

Faster, granny, kill! kill!

"Apparently the plucky mother picked up her fallen son's weapon..."

Er... stop or my mom will shoot?

(The one with "I Love Rocky" on the back, please.)

[Anonymous Coward]

This is hilarious

It's just like playing "Cowboys and Indians" ;

Cowboy - "Bang! I got you, you're dead!"

Indian - "Bang! Bang! - No you didn't I got you, you're dead!"

Cowboys mum - "You'd ALL better bloody pack it and play nice or I'll get you both!"

Hahaha, superb.

I hope I'm right when I say if both parties had ONLY had handguns this wouldn't have escalated at all (I hope).

I must of course point out that the Indians represented in the above text are in fact indigenous "American" Indians - how I ever managed to play when I was younger without having this fully stipulated to me I'll never know (thank whoever we can thank these days for the PC brigade)...

[Anonymous Coward]

HAPPY ZAPPING Time

(Ok,. did i get it in first) ;p

but what we want to really know is, did they get it on uTube?????

mines the one with heavy padding and tin-foil lining....

illuminatus;p

[Neuromancer]

Convicted on the basis of a faulty timepiece?

"Tasers generate an automatic time log whenever they are discharged, which should make it possible to determine just who, in fact, shot first."

I'd hate to get prosecuted on the basis of the kind of flaky RTC's that most equipment has; will Taser-totin' hoodlum's be setting their clocks ever faster in a bid to 'prove' they shot second... (unless the Tasers have access to a universal timecode generator, that is...)

[David Austin]

Who Shot First?

Hans, obviously.

[Brian]

Bad Terminology!

People get the terms wrong all the time. Here's the list:

Taser - A Brand name for a device that shoots barbed wires into it's target and then administers a jolt.

Stun Gun - A Hand Held shocking device WITHOUT wires. You have to hold it up to someone (preferably against bare skin). These are generally small devices that could fit into a lady's handbag.

Cattleprod - A more powerful Stun Gun that is usually much longer and wand shaped. They are used to convince a cow to get a move on, so they are stronger so that the cow can feel it (they're not really made for humans, so they'll hurt like a bitch) and they are on a wand so that if the cow kicks out in response they can't reach you as easily.

Of these, the cattleprod is probably the most powerful, but because there are no barbed wires sticking in you, the jolt is much shorter. So a Taser probably hurts the most. Stun Guns are the most fun. I was at a party once where this dickhead was zapping people's hands with a Stun Gun and making them drop their beer.

[Anonymous Coward]

Tuck Pendleton: Zero Defects

"And the award for 'most pop culture references crammed into one brief comment' goes to..."

I picture Jeffrey Jones in Howard the Duck, with lightning coming out of him, fighting the Kurgan to prove that his Schwartz is largest. I see the naked space vampire lady from Lifeforce, also with lightning. And that thought calms me, somehow.

[Anonymous Coward]

Hothead & Two rent-a-fools

...Should have just waited till the idiots left, then removed the clamp. Not that I wouldn't be pissed if someone clamped my car in my driveway.

[Anonymous Coward]

@Brian

My understanding is that a Taser can operate as a stun gun by removing the air cartridge first, and then giving the good news to someone with it.

Paris, 'cos I think she's a stunner.

[Tim]

Revenge...

is a dish best served with a side of taser. Who needs a lawsuit with the instant gratification of pain inflicted.

[Andy Worth]

@Brian

"Stun Guns are the most fun. I was at a party once where this dickhead was zapping people's hands with a Stun Gun and making them drop their beer."

Admit it.....you were that dickhead, weren't you? :)

[Maliciously Crafted Packet]

They should have apologised to his mule...

... or in this case his car.

uk.youtube.com/watch?v=2ldZxQ3Md70

That way Im sure it would have ended peacefully.

[Dalen]

Obviously...

...they were not following the Standard Operating Protocol when using the cattleprod^N^N^N^N^N^N^N^N^N^N Tazer. It wasn't even overcharged.

Mine's the one with the horned telephone on the back.

[Bounty]

what the hell was Streiff doing?

So Streiff starts some crap with the owner, it gets serious, so Dane shows up. At this point the rent a cops should just leave, report to their boss, that Epstein will probably cutup the boot. Instead it goes from serious to "Draw!" Epstein taz's Dane. Streiff spins on his thumb. Dane properly remembers which holster has the electric gun, and returns fire... errr electricity. Streiff still spins on his thumb, while mom picks up the 'tazer' that Epstein dropped.

Later both officers claim to never have pulled real guns. Dane admits to 'covering' the mom.... AFTER he tazed the son. I'm trying to figure out why? Do they have more than 1 set of prods to shoot out? The mom supposedly has a working taser in hand with a line connected to Dane, Dane has a working taser with a line connected to Epstein.... and Streiff still spins on his thumb.

WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is there a variant of the Darwin Awards

for people too stupid to actually kill themselves?

[I.M.Fantom]

Stungun

I knew a lady that thought it was funny to sungun people at parties. Unfortunately for her, 15 minutes after being "stunguned" one person came back with a bat and used her for a baseball. She never went around stungunning people after that for fun.

[Graham Marsden]

Just remember...

... originally Han shot first, but in the new "Official Version" it was Greedo who shot first!

[Daniel B.]

Re: Who Shot First

Greedo!

Oh wait, wrong version, this is the *enhanced* Geroge Lucas version. Oops!

[StopthePropaganda]

hype and nonsense to replace research

so far, only Taser-brand devices, and only the X series, generate any time log. Any of the THOUSANDS of chinese knockoff devices do nothing of the sort. nor are there any tests showing effectiveness against a trained aggressor. That's why you get a nine-volt battery powered device via mail order for $30 that will only piss off a threat, and a $500 lithium powered device from Taser that knocks testosterone poisoned protestors and angry cops on their @rse.

But, in typical hype fashion, in exactly the manner as a recent school principal expelling a kid for his flash capacitor zapper, the anti-Electrical Equalizer crowd fires up the videogamesque drama machine.

Ban effective Tasers, ban guns, ban anything that allows the man on the street to defend himself-because if enough hype can be generated about "BAD SCARY" tasers, soon noone but Hollywood elite, the bodyguards of same, and law enforcement will be able to posess them. Just like the assault weapons bans that worked on purely cosmetic features, or caliber bans where no crime EVER had been committed with them...but were a threat to politicians and power mongers.

More fear in order to progress the Police State. PH because her people work hard to keep people from defending themselves while surrounding their people with everything they would forbid the rest of humanity. Shame on anyone who fuels this ignorance and fear-pushing agendas much the same as southern Democrats and Hollywood intellectuals pushed in the 20's and 30's to "prove" the inferiority of african-Americans and others thru media stories, halfbaked "science" in the form of eugnics, and radio/theatre programs designed to support the racist agendas of the time. Same methods, different target nowadays.

[Chris C]

Where was Mr Kotter?

Is this a real story, or was someone reminiscing about "Welcome Back, Kotter" and just wanted to mention Epstein's mother?

[IR]

Boulder rentacops

The problem with Boulder is that it is a haven of liberalism within a sea of authoritarians. The authoritarians from outside get jobs in Boulder and cause huge problems by trying to lay down the law on the hippies. The cops and rentacops are notoriously trigger happy. I lived there for just a year and the police _caused_ several riots by firing tear gas into crowds, even a crowd containing young children, fearing that they might get out of control. Looks like things haven't changed.

[Herby]

Re: Bad Terminology!

You forgot:

Insulation Tester: Used specifically by BOFH's to make bosses think they are zapping PFY's. See account given last Friday. Typically has two positions: "Stun or stir-fry".

[Marko Alat]

Re: Hype and nonsense to replace research

Quoth StopThePropaganda:

===

Ban effective Tasers, ban guns, ban anything that allows the man on the street to defend himself-because if enough hype can be generated about "BAD SCARY" tasers, soon noone but Hollywood elite, the bodyguards of same, and law enforcement will be able to posess them.

===

You're not thinking far enough. Take the faken things off the cops and security guards first, so if they want to shove someone around, let them have to do it in a way that leaves bruises and lesions for a subsequent lawsuit and disciplinary action.

If a cop without a Taser wants to move someone along, they either have to reason them out of it or crack them over the head with a baton; the former requires that the cop have some interpersonal and conflict-resolution skills, the latter that he better be pretty damn sure of himself if he wants to keep his job. With a Taser, that just becomes "Move or I'll zap you and make you shit your pants."

If all the security guards in the incident at hand had were radios, and all the aggrieved car-clampee had were those bolt-cutters, what were their options; move in and take out a guy armed with a fairly useful blunt-force weapon, and move in and try to take out two men singlehandedly. That would've made both sides think, but because they all had stun weapons, which made confrontation easy, it turned into High-Voltage at the OK Corral.

[Fuzzy]

Drawin thwarted

This is a perfect example of why I am against the use of non-lethal weapons. Using these types of weapons just makes Darwins job that much harder of weeding out the idiots

[Anonymous Coward]

Give a child a toy

Give a child a toy... I suppose it is better than an Uzi.

[heystoopid]

So

So , whatever happened to the security video camera footage of the incident which will make some semblance of the four way self conflicting testimony of the parties involved in this affray , is it on youtube yet , like a certain other icon ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Do electric gunslingers dream of robot horses?

Shades of Ray Bradbury "I sing the body electric".

Mine is the multi pocket zapper suit.

Grumpy Old Git

[Gordon]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAAA

Personally I think it's quite amusing that people needed to be "tasered" twice. Conclusion. They don't work as well as the media would have us believe.

This is especially true when they're not genuine taser products and haven't been kept maintained with up-to-date batteries, freshly charged and used by people who know what they're doing.

[HFoster]

STEPHEN!

Should have sent in the PFY.

[multipharious]

Responsibility to Retreat

The order of events here is not necessarily important. The fact is that they were not police officers, were threatening, and they were likely at this point on his property (needs clarification.) If not on his/her property (ie on public or another person's property) and retreating endangers him/her or leaves another person exposed to

1 Death

2 Severe bodily harm

3 Sexual penetration

more than standing one's ground, then this authorizes use of lethal force. I do not see the severe bodily harm or sexual penetration test met in this case, and certainly not death.

If they were on his property, then those three tests do not have to be met*, since he no longer has a responsbility to retreat whereas the rent a cops did.

It is the so called "Stand Your Ground" test. It applies without restriction in almost all states within the four walls of the owner's house or car, meaning there is no responsibility to retreat. Outside the home, car, or place of work there are various levels of responsibility to retreat with risk of any of the three conditions removing any responsibility and authorizing lethal force.

In the end he should have called the police immediately, and asked the rent a cops to get off his property or be charged with trespassing. Then wait for the law enforcement officers to arrive to mediate.

Keep in mind if you kill someone you will be tried for murder which means pulling out the gun is a last resort to anything else. If the judge does not agree with your judgement you WILL go to jail for manslaughter or murder two. Police officers are held to the same standards. Anyone that kills another regardless of situation must be acquitted for the killing. Plus killing is something that haunts dreams, and you will have to live with it.

*Perhaps a Colorado reader can enlighten us on the specifics of the retreat test outside the four walls of the home or car in that state when using deadly force.

[Anonymous Coward]

Stungun at parties?!?

Followed by a baseball bat?

Sweet jesus, what kind of parties do you go to?

[Anonymous Coward]

Data centre guards

When I was working at a well known data centre in West London around the turn of the century the security guards there routinely carried tasers. I wonder what would have happened if an intruder had got into the datacentre and they'd missed with the taser. It would have made for an interesting support call or two.

Mines the ex-army camo one with the rubber lining.

[Glenn Charles]

re: a distinct falling off

No, that was the sheep, and it was Montana.

--Glenn