back to article Apple punts 'Penryn' iMacs

Apple has updated its iMac line of consumer desktops, taking the machines' processor into the 45nm era with a set of 'Penryn' Core 2 Duo options. It upgraded the desktops' graphics too. The standard three iMac configurations again include a pair of 20in, 1680 x 1050 models and a version with a 24in, 1920 x 1200 display. Moving …

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  1. Asam Bashir

    3.06Ghz high-end model...

    Actually, the high-end model is 3.06GHz, with an optional NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GS graphics processor with 512MB of GDDR3 memory....

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    UK Pricing etc

    Observation 1: I'm guessing it's a safe assumption that UK models still don't come with UK keyboards. Not much to ask is it? Well, apparently it is :-)

    Observation 2: I can't help noticing the obvious price hike for the UK - £799/$1199 should be more like £599/$1199 !!

    Apple - got to love 'em, eh?

  3. Mark Broadhurst
    Jobs Horns

    Any news on the screens?

    does the 20" include "millions of colours" or just thousands.

  4. Mad Hacker
    Jobs Horns

    Odd update

    No question these sound like Centrino 2 CPUs that were due in June.

    Doesn't this seem a bit odd? Do we still expect a Centrino 2 update in June for the iMac motherboards?

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Forgetting an important detail

    This article forgets one of the more important aspects of the upgraded iMacs: the new optional NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GS (512 MB) graphics card.

    This is quite significant since the first time it makes the iMac a viable "gaming machine". Of course not for the hard core gamers (whom will be running a custom spec'ed Windows PC anyway), but for the casual gamers it will be more than enough. And for Apple it's a great step ahead in acknowledging the importance of computer games on the mac (be it under Mac OS X or Windows via bootcamp).

  6. Player_16
    Gates Halo

    I want to know...

    ...is there someone similar to 'Webster' on the MS Windows side that make similar derogatory comments when something somewhat 'sweet' comes out from them?

  7. Derek Hellam
    Jobs Halo

    Not quite right eh?

    Don't forget to mention the 3.06Gz model with the 8800GS (512MB RAM) video. It's all there on Apple's website. Lazy man.......

  8. Webster Phreaky
    Jobs Horns

    Lets Start Counting How Many Bugs These Will Have ....

    Oh Macs are always "perfect"??, there's never been problems with iMacs!!??, Mactards are always in denial folks. Let's just refres=h your MEMORY about JUST ONE segment of Apple's "colorful history" of foisting garbage on the unsuspecting (because the Apple Media Hacks hide it) consumer public -

    "Apple iMac: ‘New and inferior,’ lawsuit says" March 31, 2008 -

    http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/category/lawsuits/

    "iMac LCD problems continue to grow" Monday, Dec. 3 2007 -

    http://www.applegazette.com/imac/imac-lcd-problems-continue-to-grow/

    "Apple confirms iMac freeze problem" Monday, Oct. 8 2007 -

    http://www.applegazette.com/imac/apple-confirms-imac-freeze-problem/

    "20" iMac LCD color problems?" (this one actually is about another Apple lie)-

    http://www.tuaw.com/2007/09/12/20-imac-lcd-color-problems/

    "Apple faces up to iMac flaws By Louisa Hearn" February 13, 2006 -

    http://www.smh.com.au/news/breaking/apple-faces-up-to-imac-flaws/2006/02/13/

    1139679517842.html

    And INTEL even helps Apple with MacIntel PC Clone bugs too!

    "Intel Core Chip Bugs May Affect Macs" January 23rd, 2006 -

    http://www.macobserver.com/article/2006/01/23.6.shtml

    "iMac Vertical Lines" January 4, 2008 (read the fellow owners commments) -

    http://imaclines.blogspot.com/2008/01/my-history-and-some-numbers.html

    "iMac G5 power supply burning" Mar 09, 2005 (WELL known flaw!) -

    http://macosg.com/group/viewtopic.php?t=3831

    Even the Mac Hack Media guys complain ... sometimes, for good reason.

    "HEY LA, HEY LA, MY iMAC'S BACK" September 16, 1998

    http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/sep1998/nf80916a.htm

    "G3 iMac have a tendency to suffer from video failure" (Our school Dist lost 340 iMacs in 16 months back in 1999 from this!) - http://www.macopz.com/columns/imacrepair/

    Oh, but lets go back to the BEGINNING of the iMac, the KOREAN made G3 iMacs:

    "iMac Flaws" February 1999 -

    http://lowendmac.com/imac/evan03.shtml

    HEY, I could go on for pages and pages because the web is FULL of Documented Apple build-in FLAWS that the Apple Hackl Media and Apple FUDs suppresses. Look for yourself .... well unless you live in the land of denial .. Mac Fantasy-land.

  9. John Watts
    Flame

    I thought I'd try to save everyone from typing.

    Macs are overpriced underspec'd poncey toys for people with too much money. Macs are great value for money - you couldn't get the same spec for the same money elsewhere. OSX is great Windows is shit. Windows is great OSX is shit. 2GB is nowhere near enough memory these days. 2GB might not be enough for Vista but Macs run fine with it. OSX copied Vista. Vista copied OSX. Some boring shit about the finer points of Intel processor technology that's the equivalent of showing everyone how big your willy is except nobody is interested whatever. OSX is shit and Windows is shit; I run Ubuntu blah blah blah. I hate Steve Jobs he eats babies. Bill Gates eats the babies and their mothers. I run Cock-Rot Linux and it's the best in the world and I don't know why everyone uses Ubuntu when you can do everything using Vi and the terminal feature of my obscure mobile phone (which nobody ever rings 'cause I've got no friends). Some other boring comment about processors from someone who wants to show the world that his willy is bigger than the other processor posters (okay, one person read the whole post). Apple hardware is overpriced I hate anyone with an iPhone. Actually BSD is much better than Linux or Windows or OSX, that's why such a large percentage of people have it installed on their home machines. Doh, didn't you know that OSX is Unix and runs BSD. Actually it's not Unix 'cause Apple won't pay for the certification. Yes it is. No it's not. Fanboi something. Don't you know the whole fan-boy thing is old and so juvenille, just like your spelling. I still use a Lisa and it does everything I need it to. I use a Commodore 64 with a hard-drive and it's better than the Lisa. I don't know what I'm talking about and haven't read the article but I'm going to chip in with something irrelevant and wrong anyway. OSX sucks. OSX rocks. Bootcamp. DRM. iTunes. Steve Jobs is on first name terms with Satan. Bill Gates is Satan. I've got an iPhone and I love it. It really pisses me off that Apple has to put i in front of everything. Something about PPC versus Intel. Something completely without evidence comparing Apples and Oranges (pun intentional) proving PPC is and always will be better than x86. Something completely without evidence comparing Apples and Oranges proving x86 is and always will be better than PPC. GPL. Google. Linux. QNX. My Dad's harder than your Dad. My Nan's harder than your nan. Something anti-American. Angry riposte proving anti-American point. Thoughtful welll thought out riposte clearly disproving anti-American point that nobody will ever read because there's so much uninformed chaff above it.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Faster iMacs

    Whats the point (no pun intended) of having a faster iMac when it takes forever to scroll the Humble/Mighty Mouse Pointer from one side of their screen to the other?

    Try it.

    Even as its fastest, you physically have to move their Mouse about 4" / 100mm.

    So much for Apple Ergonomics.

  11. Carl

    graphics card

    Actually the top spec model has a 512MB nVidia GeForce 8800GS

  12. Warren
    Jobs Halo

    Nvidia 8800GS

    Is now an option on the 24" - this is a major step forward for the Mac maker. This should show there's a future for playing some games on this platform and explains the gladhanding with EA in the last months!

  13. Antidisestablishmentarianist
    Heart

    @John Watts

    Bravo Mr Watts. Bravo. However you missed out the word 'Freetard'.

    Oh and Webster, can you come up with some new material please? The stuff you copy and paste from your 'Down with Apple' file each and every post is...yawn. What was I saying? Oh yeah. When you keep repeating the same old sh*t, people start to ignore it as it's boring.

    And I for one do not want to have to start ignoring you. I love you Ralph Nader!

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up

    I take my hat off to John Watts

    Congratulations on the perfect El Reg comment. Seriously, genius!

    The best thing is, not only have you saved everyone else typing all that crap, but from now on you can simple cut and paste all that crap in to every single article mentioning the word Apple (in much the same way Webster Phreaky already does)

  15. David Glasgow
    Coat

    Wot?

    Only SHOUTY Webster SHOUTING?

    Where are they all? The shouters. Time was that new Macs would flush em out in droves. But now.....well, where's the fun in a lone voice raging against the dying of the light? Where's the pleasure in buying a Mac if it doesn't provoke widespread execration and irrational odium?

    Come on! Unless someone dissuades me by SHOUTING a lot or listing enough URLs, I just might buy a Penryn iMac. Maybe two.

    Naaah. I'm off down the Rat and Trumpet. Mines the one with "Think Differently" in sequins on the back.

  16. Richard Scratcher
    Happy

    @James Watts

    Bloody spoilsport!

    BTW, have you ever thought of a career in writing mission statements?

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Jobs Horns

    Overpriced pile of...

    £1149 for the "top end"? How overpriced can a pile of rubbish be? A quick blast through Aria and I found:

    Intel e8400 CPU £109

    8800GS £77.95

    GeIL 4GB PC2-6400 C5 Black Dragon £39.95

    Intel 'Bad Axe 2' D975 Socket 775 Motherboard £117

    1TB Samsung Spinpoint F1 SATA2 7200RPM 32MB cache £83.95

    Thermaltake case £40, PSU £40

    24 inch Widescreen £180

    Total? £688 for twice as much ram, a 1TB hard drive and a sweet looking case, add in a G15+G7 for £788ish, heck you could buff the VGA up, slap in a quad core etc.. for under 1k for a system that is so much more powerful than a mac. Slap in osx86 if you really want OSX and you still have a very powerful system at prices which are not a total rip off.

    Best of all? Its a "real" computer, so you can install a real OS like Linux or Windows on it, with fantastic hardware support. Oh, and you'll also have @ where it is supposed to be, just above the ' and not on shift+2.

  18. William Clark

    RE: UK Pricing etc

    "I can't help noticing the obvious price hike for the UK - £799/$1199 should be more like £599/$1199 !!"

    Um, not quite, US price does not include sales Tax, UK one does. So in fact £599 inc VAT would be a better deal than the US price - however at roughly $2=£1 the price ought to be more like £705 inc VAT.

    I blame Apple UK for this (the £95 'overcharge') - I doubt Apple US gives a damn what the prices are overseas - maybe that weird Mr Jobs might open an international store with international pricing someday....[/wishful thinking]

  19. James Penketh
    Joke

    Re: Webster Phreaky

    Calm down and have a nice cup of tea.

    Now, can you show me, on the doll, where Steve touched you?

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Down

    Re: UK Pricing

    $1199 is about #599, but then you have to add VAT, which takes the price to about #704. By comparison, you'd be paying about $1300 after tax, but only if you bought it in a shop. (I live here, but I still don't get how US sales tax is somehow optional on mail order stuff.)

    Just get one of your student friends to buy one for you and slip 'em a quiet fifty nicker...

    Also: nice one Mr. Watts.

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up

    Note for Webster

    Let's list the Macs I've purchased since 1990:

    Mac LC

    PowerBook 100

    Quadra 610

    PowerMac 7200

    iBook

    Sawtooth G4-400

    G3 iBook

    Aluminium iMac

    Black MacBook

    Let's list the number of problems I've had with these machines:

    Thank you for your time and attention.

  22. Luke

    @Ron Hughes

    Use the Pg Dn buttong if it exists on a mac, I usually every use the keyboard for doing most things and use keyboard shortcuts wherever possible (I have broken my collar bone twice, using the mouse for long periods of time really hurt my shoulder and I am a software engineer).

    I have never used a mac for an extended period of time but from a demonstation from a friend the keyboard shortcuts seems to make a lot more sense.

  23. RegisteredUser
    Jobs Halo

    Phreaky

    Sometimes you have to wonder whether Webster Phreaky is another genius creation of Steve Job's; no one would ever heed anything written by such a stupid and obvious troll that dismissing any negative posts becomes second nature. Genius :)

  24. Ivan Headache

    @ Ron Hughes

    "Whats the point (no pun intended) of having a faster iMac when it takes forever to scroll the Humble/Mighty Mouse Pointer from one side of their screen to the other?

    Try it.

    Even as its fastest, you physically have to move their Mouse about 4" / 100mm."

    But at least the mac pointer goes where it's meant to and stops where you want it to. My mousing accuracy is a factor of 10 times better in PS on a Mac compared to PS on Windows.

    Oh and @ AC

    Yes anyone can build a computer cheaper than an imac - as long as you don't factor in your time and the the software you still have to buy and install, and the debugging to make sure it's running right.

    And FYI, the @ sign is just where it is supposed to be.

  25. Michael Greenhill
    Stop

    @ Note for Webster

    Now let's list the people who care:

    <queue tumbleweed>

    Maybe some of us just want to discuss the merits of the CPU upgrade; not which OS is better

  26. Anonymous Coward
    Coat

    @ac (Note for Webster)

    I have had a similar list:

    Mac Plus

    Mac IIci

    PowerMac 7200

    Blue & White G4-400

    G4 eMac

    G4 mac mini

    I have had a few more problems though:

    Mac Plus - screen died

    Mac IIci - screen died, can't find compatible replacement, too lazy to build own cable

    Blue&White - had hardware bugs, fixed next revision, so I sold it

    G4 eMac - hard disk failed (can happen to any computer)

    Mine's the one with the soldering iron hanging out of the pocket, ta.

  27. Anonymous Coward
    Flame

    Re: Overpriced pile of...

    "Its a "real" computer, so you can install a real OS like Linux or Windows on it"

    You mean, install Gnu/Linux and OpenBSD on it like I did on my Mac? And since when is Windows an OS? Far as I know it's still nothing more than a pretty program starter, even though it's running on NT these days. Well, stumbling, anyway; couldn't call what Vista does "running," really.

    Also, if you want to compare prices, compare apples with apples, not oranges. Try finding an off-the-shelf system by Dell or Acer or Lenovo with the same specifications, then compare prices. You'll find Apple in the same price range.

  28. Dana W
    Happy

    @ Webster

    You, really need prozac, or perhaps a social life.

  29. richard
    Alert

    list

    list of macs i've had:

    powermac 8200

    imac dv400

    g4 powerbook 1.25

    ipod x2

    let's list the problems i've had:

    imac had firmware/screen fuck up - my fault for trying to upgrade to OSX without upgrading the firmware first.

    powerbook power supply broken - the dog knocked it off the sofa onto the wood floor.

    ipod 1- battery failure - unit unusable

    ipod 2 - wouldn't start up, put new hard disc in, did all apple suggestions, didn't resolve so smashed it outside with a hammer.

    therefore - ipods- built like shite.

    macs - still good but, i have to admit, are not as well built as they used to be - a bit like mercedes'

    thank you

  30. Scott Mckenzie

    Overpriced

    Congratulations to the person who priced up a cheaper machine, it being cheaper and having no OS on is always a good start for comparison... you're then kinda missing one of the reasons people like the Mac, the style and convenience, what it comes with etc.

    For many people the fact that you have to plug in the power cord, the keyboard and the mouse (or maybe not if you went wireless) and that is it... rather than connecting everything up, installing the drivers, or in the case of your fantastic machine, physically building the thing - something your average user is well up to speed with doing.

    Get over the comparison... the same would apply with Dell, Alienware and any manufacturer of pre built systems - it's convenient FFS.

    But then again, so long as you're happy go ahead... the sales figures say otherwise but why would we question your unfaltered knowledge of all things computing.

    Webster - sad to see your still with us.

  31. Danny Traynor
    Heart

    macs

    own list:

    G4 Tower

    12" Powerbook

    20"Coreduo iMac

    13" CoreDuo 'Blackbook'

    15.4" Santa Rosa Macbook Pro

    20Gig iPod

    60Gig iPod

    8Gig iPhone

    Problems: 20gig iPod died after dropping it onto concrete.

    Personally, after using PCs for the best part of 10 years I'd never go back.

  32. SpitefulGOD
    Gates Halo

    Alright I guess, for you mac heads

    Apart from the fact that given this is a machine for those Photshop and Video lot I can't help but think that 2GB is well...... Shit especially with RAW images running into the 10's of the mp range.

    My conclusion.... buy one of those Apple rip machines if you really need an apple, but then again it's all about the logo, huh guys?

  33. Scott Mckenzie

    SpitefulGOD

    You've clearly demonstrated a very thorough understanding of video and photo processing there, congratulations.

    Move along...

  34. Anonymous Coward
    Jobs Horns

    Overpriced pile of...

    "Also, if you want to compare prices, compare apples with apples, not oranges. Try finding an off-the-shelf system by Dell or Acer or Lenovo with the same specifications, then compare prices. You'll find Apple in the same price range."

    Ok, I'll compare a Dell to the Apple...

    Intel® Viiv™ Core™ 2 Quad-Core Q6600 Processor (2.4GHz, 8MB cache, 1066MHz FSB) - Core 2 Duo

    256MB ATI® Radeon™ HD 2600 XT graphics card - on both

    3GB Dell - 2GB Apple

    640GB HDD Dell - 320 GB Apple

    Dell £599 for much higher spec, Apple £1149 at a lower spec, so lets see, the Dell is almost 1/2 the price of the Apple for a much higher specification. Thats £599 including VAT + Delivery.

    Customising the Dell to Apple pricing allows:

    4GB RAM, 750GB HDD, 24 Inch Widescreen and Blu-Ray, £ for £ the Dell totally and absolutly thrashes the Apple in a price comparision, the Dell offers a much faster CPU with more ram, over twice the hard drive space as well as Blu-Ray, your argument is flawed and totally incorrect, Apples are overpriced piles of rubbish who's real value is around the £400 mark, its only idiots who would pay 3 times the worth of an object.

  35. Sam
    Boffin

    @ Anonymous Coward - "Overpriced"

    "Apples are overpriced piles of rubbish who's real value is around the £400 mark, its only idiots who would pay 3 times the worth of an object."

    See, I can understand how, when people look at just the spec of a machine, they think that. I don't know whether you've spent mcuh time using macs (for lots of people there's no real reason to, their PCs suit them fine) but I switched from a PC to a mac a few years ago, because I realised I was spending a really quite significant amount of time each month keeping my PC working. For me, the value in a mac is that I turn it on, I get on with what I need to do, and then I switch it off. There's none of the frustration I experienced with XP, wondering why things weren't working, or why the computer was doing strange things, or whether I was going to lose what I'd been working on for the past couple of hours.

    In the 6 years I've owned macs I reckon I've spent about 3 hours tops on fixing technical problems. In the time I used PCs, I reckon I easily spent 3 hours a month minimum trying to get the damn thing to work properly; thinking back, it seems like it was more like 30 minutes a day, but that might just be psychological scarring. The last PC I had, I had to re-install windows three times in the space of about 6 weeks. A mac lets me get the job done, in the shortest possible time, with the least worry; it's the path of least resistance - I work largely by myself in a very small company, and time not working (yup, like time spent posting things like this...) costs me money.

    So, yeah, the new iMac and Macbook Air I've just ordered might be "overpriced" but they fit my needs perfectly - sure, I might be able to get equivalent kit for £500 less, each, (though I'm not sure I can find anything equivalent to the Air). These machines will probably last me a couple of years though, so really £1000 combined "overspend" now on those two machines equates to about £9.60 a week. Call it insurance, call it a stupid tax, call it whatever you want - I'm happy to pay that upfront now, for a couple of years of stress-free computing.

    Some people wouldn't be happy with that, though, because their priorities are different. Which seems to be the point a lot of people miss when they weigh in on the OMGMACS arguments.

  36. Scott Mckenzie

    You just don't get it do you...

    I've just tried on Dell and including the high res monitor etc i can't price up a unit with the same power processors to the same price as you.... but still for a lot of people a machine that "just works" is more important and also the elegance of a design of the iMac is worth so much more... not too many folks want acres of wire trailing all over the palce in the lounge - not an issue with an iMac, i know of several people who've bought one just for that.

    But hey, arguing with someone anonymous on the web is a little pointless, you clearly have your viewpoint which is fine... when you've actually tried one it'd be interesting to see your real opinion, but until then.... enjoy your amazing machine. I'll enjoy my 3 Macs and the entire network of PC's i run at the office. Guess which break more? Clue your sarcastic first answer won't be the right one.

  37. Michael

    A Computer Tech's Opinion

    As a computer repair technician with many years experience working with both Apple computers and Windows boxes, I have to say that in all honesty the Macs are hands down the winner when it comes to reliability as well as ease of use. And when I say more reliable I am referring to both the hardware and the operating system.

    Additionally, I have found that the OS X operating system is superior to Windows XP and even Vista on a variety of levels.

    That being said, for most users, the two systems are fairly comparable in that whether you are browsing the Internet or creating a document in Word, the apps. work pretty much the same on both systems so at he end of the day the Mac vrs. PC argument doesn't really matter that much.

    But the bottom line is that Macs, although more expensive, are far more elegant, much easier to use, definitely more stable and quite a bit more reliable.

  38. Anonymous Coward
    Jobs Horns

    Which breaks more

    Obviously the one that has the higher concentration of hardware, which is going to break down more often, 3 macs or a network of PC's, the obvious non sarcastic answer is the PC's, which is going to break down more often, 3 PC's or a network of macs? The mac will break down more often due to a higher concentration of said systems. Anyhow, to get the dell starting at £599...

    www.dell.co.uk > Solutions for Home > View all Desktop promotions > Inspiron 530 - More details > 4th from right and customise.

    And yes, I have Mac OSX, which is why I have the opinion that it is total rubbish, I wouldn't make that opinion if I had never used the OS.

  39. Don Reckinger
    Flame

    Certification

    OSX is a certified UNIX03 OS to clarify an earlier comment listed above. It's right here among a list of "real" operating systems. :-)

    http://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/

  40. Webster Phreaky
    Jobs Horns

    Funny How MacTards call names, but NEVER refute the proof with facts

    You MacTards and Apple Kool Aid Drinkers are wonderful at flinging the insults but never ever seem to get around to refuting the DOCUMENTED facts in print and on the net everywhere, often on MacFan Boy sites.

    Reason(?), you can't and that answers it all about just how your feeble brains work ... just what they make Macs for. Listing all your Apple crap is proof of nothing. Apple Droids are notorious liars about the reliability of their Apple gadgets. Our IT dept administers more than 26,000 computers in a rather large K - 12 school district. We USED TO BUY Macs, but a 29% failure rate within the the first 18 months on 4,600 G3 and G4 iBook, a 26% failure rate in 18 months on G3 iMacs and G4 eMacs KILLED Apple with our District for ever! At Educational Administrators conferences put on by the Dept. of Eduaction, I hear the same from other small and large school district IT Admins, they will never buy Apple again because of the horrible reliability! THAT is why Apple LOST the education market 4 years ago and why Apple never seems to talk about ever again.

    Facts don't lie, the sample links are PROOF ... just you MacTards are the liars and big babies. Got contrary proof? Spell it out, or just shut up.

    http://www.macobserver.com/article/2006/07/03.9.shtml

    http://www.macintouch.com/laptoplife.html

    http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/05/03/apple_grilled_over_ibook_g4_

    logicboard_deaths.html

    http://www.applefritter.com/node/10193?from=50&comments_per_page=50

    eMac Makes PC Magazine's "10 Worst Products of the Year"

    http://www.macobserver.com/article/2004/12/20.5.shtml

    Big Apple schools refuse Macs over Wi-Fi flaw

    http://www.news.com/8301-13579_3-9922461-37.html

  41. Don Reckinger
    Boffin

    Certification

    OSX is a certified UNIX03 OS to clarify an earlier argument listed above. It's listed among other "real" operating systems. :-)

    http://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/

  42. Ivan Headache

    @ AC which breaks more

    "Obviously the one that has the higher concentration of hardware, which is going to break down more often, 3 macs or a network of PC's, the obvious non sarcastic answer is the PC's, which is going to break down more often, 3 PC's or a network of macs? The mac will break down more often due to a higher concentration of said systems."

    It's an old story that I trot out now and again - several years ago I worked in a department with about 30 macs on an Appletalk network spread over 3 floors of a 9 floor building. Management in their wisdom decided to star equipping the rest of the office with computers and went the PC route. in the first few months 3 techies, consultants, call them what you will went about their business - but by the time the first year was up we had a full time staff of 13 people to look after the PCs.

    Us macusers? Well, we kept our network, and had a man come in on the fourth Wednesday of the month (in the afternoon) just to make sure everything was still tickety-boo.

    And it always was.

    And Webster, we're not interested in your "proof". In England Apple is as big (and apparently getting bigger) in the education market as it ever was. I personally worked in 2 schools that were ALL mac and I know of one other where a phased transition to mac is taking place. More businesses are switching to macs - I go into more and more offices where the PCs are in a skip and imacs are on the desks. I can't go in to statistics because I'm not quite so anal as you appear to be.

    Just out of curiosity what do PCtards drink - and oh yes, what's Kool-aid?

  43. Scott Mckenzie

    For the true Dell price comparison

    As said above at least compare Apples with Apples:

    The monitor is not the same resolution, 1280 x 800 is quite different to 1680 x 1050, sure you can increase to the 22" with that res but we're talking a pretty naff monitor here, in my experience the Dell UltraSharp probably do just pip the Apple monitors for colour depth, but they're not an option. Assuming we're happy with the 22" to get the same res, add £30

    Multimedia keyboard, add £5

    No built in speakers on the Dell, not important to me, but are to someone. £10

    Optical Audio output on the Dell? £10 as it's maybe included in the Audigy?

    Webcam - £13

    Wireless Network - £10

    Bluetooth - £20

    Firewire - £10

    You currently get £60 against a printer from Apple too, so we can add a reasonable printer to the Dell (seen as you can have an HP C4180 for £60, effectively making it free) £40

    That little lot comes in at £749.08, which yep it's still cheaper than the iMac.. but then we can talk about built in iLife amongst others, the fact that we don't have to install our webcam, plug everything in and let's be honest it's gonna look a whole lot better in the iMac form.... if you want to remove promo offers too, forego the printer which takes the Mac to the same £799 but the Dell now comes in £789.

    I'd rather have a newer, slightly slower processor (seen as the OS will do far better with anyway) and the smaller HDD for the rest of the spec to be nigh on identical.... i get OS X you get an entry level Dell.

    But as i said before, take your choice, i'll take mine... but if you're going to draw comparisons, at least make them fair.

  44. SpitefulGOD
    Gates Halo

    Machines.

    Computer 2000 had a nice offer the other week for a Xeon dual core 1.8 Barebones with 250GB hdd, 1GB Ram, DVD writer, etc for £89, add to that a desent GPU, Sound card and RAM, you could probably get a decent machine for < £200

  45. Peter Kay

    Mouse pointer accuracy

    I can't be arsed getting into the mac vs PC argument, but if your mouse doesn't stop where it should get a new mouse. I've got three on the same system (one wireless USB, one PS/2 through switchbox, one integrated trackpoint via PS/2->USB converter) and all are accurate.

    It's not a problem on other systems running OS/2, NT4, Win 98, any of the SGI boxes or the dozens of machines at work.

    In short, there's nothing wrong with mice on PCs.

    I'd also note that I plugged my webcam and printer into the computer, it prompted me if I wanted to download the drivers and 10 minutes later they just worked..

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