Welsh student exposed to nude webcam operators A Welsh student has described herself as "amazed and disgusted" at a couple of Jobcentre Plus ads punting for nude webcam operators at £10 an hour plus 50 per cent commission, the BBC reports. Anna Ellis-Jones, who's studying for a Masters degree in heritage management, spied the "sad, pitiful and depressing" opportunties in …
It's a valid job and it needs to be advertised. Let's face it, an ad like that is actually fairly discrete - it could be marketed a lot worse. For example on the notice boards in colleges.
The job centre is right though, that they have to carry it - they're not allowed to turn it away. It's up to the job seeker to decide whether they want it or not.
Once Ms Ellis-Jones had finished thundering, "It is just bonkers in this day and age when we are encouraging safety for children on the internet, to come across job adverts like this," did anyone ask her exactly how this job advert was supposed to discourage safety of children on the internet?
Seriously, a student being uptight about earning money by doing something adult-themed on the Internet?
C'mon, what else *is* there on the Internet? And where do you expect to find all your cheap labour if it's not at the Jobcentre?
Anyway - where do I sign up?
"It is just bonkers in this day and age when we are encouraging safety for children on the internet, to come across job adverts like this"
oh noes! naked people on the internetz! someone call the sun!
seeing as this job aparently requires you to be 18, and (presumably) you would have to pay with a credit card to oggle welsh wenches, how exactly will this do anything to the safety of children?
I was waiting for someone to say 'she must be doing this because she's ugly'. I wonder why this sort of comment is made? If she were a stunner, would she have no objection? If she was gorgeous, she would be happy that the jobs women are offered include semi-soft porn? That all women, if they only had the looks, would leap at the chance to do a demeaning job?
Men, when they are looking for jobs, don't expect to see stuff that is just a few steps away from rent boy, and yet that sort of role is acceptable to be in the range of opportunities open to women.
Well, I'm aged 18+, i.e. 18+40, so where do I apply - I can't see it on Reg Jobs.
I'm not sure what the market is for a balding overweight middle-aged men, so I can't bank on the 50% commission, but 10 quid an hour for doing nowt but lie around starkers sounds better than commuting into London every day.
Well in that case, instead of moaning about a job in the Jobcentre, which is advertised as strictly 18+ etc, how about you have a look in your local newsagent - where the sweet, innocent kids go to buy lollipops and sherbet - and have a look at the front page of the Daily Sport and whatnot.
Which are always on view to everyone.
What a niave, short sighted twat she must be.
Steven R
If you're old, fat and/or ugly they won't hire you. It's not discrimination to have minimum physical requirements for a job where physical appearance is important.
I'm not sure how this can be exploitation though, they are paying well over the minimum wage and it sounds like an easy job. McDonalds, that's exploitation.
The job posting does not seem to be discriminating by gender. It seems men would be just as open to taking up this wonderful opportunity as women.
Now, I wouldn't work in that kind of job, but I as long as the job/activity is not outlawed then I do think they should be allowed to advertise in Job centres. The major issue there might have been (that to qualify for JobSeeker allowance you have to take nearly any job offered to you) does not apply here since it specifically states that not taking up this job will not affect any benefits.
"Men, when they are looking for jobs, don't expect to see stuff that is just a few steps away from rent boy, and yet that sort of role is acceptable to be in the range of opportunities open to women."
OK, so the original comment was OOO but there are probably webcam operative opening for men too. I'm sure given gay rights that Job Centres would carry those ads too.
I presume the Job Centre feels it has to carry the ads as a result of the Anne Summers case. The last time I went into one of their stores it was packed with women and I was the only bloke in the shop.
So long as no one is saying "Take this job or we cut your job seekers allowance" I don't see a problem. Given the amount of this sort of stuff on the web there must be an awful lot of people in the world who are prepared to remove their clothing to earn some money.
@The Other Steve
It's more than a lot of people earn - and that's just the basic pay. It's also (if you want) at home in relatively short shifts... No, I wouldn't be interested, but I don't think the salary counts as "shocking".
@Hollerith
I don't "expect" it, certainly. However, seeing an advert asking for men willing to parade naked in front of a camera wouldn't offend me in the slightest.
Instead, I'm likely to be amused. There's so much porn on the net already, do we really need more created?
@Chewy
Certainly you can't be too picky - however the "Please note that there is no obligation to consider making an application for this vacancy." comment implies that the jobcentre were specifically excluding this one from that requirement. Sounds like a fair attitude to me.
£10/hour and 50% commission?
That's not a bad rate for this sort of thing. Only one commercial site that I know of offers 50% commission (if you're lucky!), most are in the range 25-40%, and don't offer a guaranteed wage on top of it.
How the company will survive at these pay rates, I don't know - the market for this sort of thing seems to have taken a down-turn of late - many people I know who were making good money at this only a couple of years ago are struggling now.
I'd be interested to know what the people complaining about the wages for this job get paid. £10 per hour plus commission? Thats hardly to be sneezed at. I think the confusion has come because a quote in the article says "Guaranteed minimum wages", not, as many people appear to have read it "Garunteed minimum wage".
£40 plus commission for flashing your bits at the world and their mates for 4 hours sounds like a good deal to me. No heavy lifting, warm, dry workplace, theres much worse jobs paying far less money.
Icon because some people need glasses... ;-)
As opposed to spending the rest of your life moving chicken testicles from a grill to a box. Or cold-calling people in their homes. Or selling crack (in which case your life will be a lot shorter). Or actually prostituting yourself.
As far as opportunities for the unskilled go, this is hardly bottom of the list. Frankly I can't see "Dole Queue Hotties" being a particularly arousing prospect anyway.
>I was waiting for someone to say 'she must be doing this because she's ugly'.
Await no longer for the JonB hath commented!
>I wonder why this sort of comment is made?
As an amusingly ironic take on stereotypical sexist remarks perhaps.
I blame the state of the education system that this sort of ironic cynicism
is on its knees (probably giving head for £10/hr)
>If she were a stunner, would she have no objection?
Well, she might have an income....
>That all women, if they only had the looks, would leap at the chance to do a demeaning job?
A lot go in for hairdressing.
"Instead, I'm likely to be amused. There's so much porn on the net already, do we really need more created?"
er, yes we do actually, I think I've seen everything already out there.
Come on Hollerith, you know you want to. (Thats my tongue placed well and firmly in my cheek by the way, before you ask)
Mines the one with "Lawsuit waiting to happen" on the back.
Happy to correct you...
If you read to the bottom of the advert you'll see that you are not forced to apply for this job, so it will not effect your benefits if you refuse to apply.
"The ads continued: "Guaranteed minimum wages per four hour shift. Duties require the successful applicant to be nude/semi-nude. Vacancy not suitable for under-18s. Please note that there is no obligation to consider making an application for this vacancy.""
>>"Ellis-Jones thundered: "It is just bonkers in this day and age when we are encouraging safety for children on the internet, to come across job adverts like this."<<
Yeah, cos kids are really going to be in danger of JOB ADVERTS! Especially ones that require the employee to be over 18. It's a scandal! Remove this filth!
Dear Ms. Ellis-Jones,
Sex Worker is a job title, not a character flaw. I find it offensive that your attitude seems to denigrate all the honest people working in adult industries worldwide. Should everyone, female and male, not have the right to decide how they wish to express their sexuality? Why are you seeking to take their rights away from them? Please be an adult. If you don't like the idea of sex work then don't apply for the job but don't try to take the opportunity away from others just because it's not right for you.
The advert clearly states that the position is not open to under 18s. Your statement about this being a child protection issue is therefore just plain wrong. Can I take from it that you think all sexually explicit material should be banned to protect children? People have sex and many of them enjoy it. A healthy and honest attitude towards sex important for individuals' development, mental well-being and to protect them from exploitation.How many children have been abused for years because they thought sex was dirty and that they couldn't tell? May I suggest you develop a more grown-up attitude towards sex?
No, it's not illegal to pay using commission. Almost *any* job except possibly telephone sales that pays commission benefits the attractive folk (both men and women, but mainly women). I often see jobs in the paper for women to walk around a bar selling shots for commission, usually whilst wearing less than I wear in the shower.
Men have just as good an opportunity to make good commission if not more than women, so you can forget that argument. I'm sure there are plenty of gay men willing to part with their cc details as well as women to see a buff bit of meat on a webcam.
And yes, this student is retarded. It's a legal job, it pays well for how easy and safe it is, and you can work part time I presume. If you think they're being exploited by the employer then you should compare accountants hourly pay with their charge out rates. You'll see approximately 8-10x difference.
Now, does anyone have a link to the job spec?...
I dont think this young lady was thinking out of the box!
i am sure if you did this for a few weeks so that it was on your CV, she would surely get a job in a IT services company!
when i used i used to be on recruitment panel at a large US IT Services company operating in the UK , we used to do work very hard to find innovative ways we could justify encoraging women into the workforce!
Although admittedly just being attractive wasnt often enough (personality helps) - i am sure any prospective webcab girl with a 2.1 or above would certianly have got an interview or young enough she could have got on the "modern apprentice" scheme...
> How many children have been abused for years because they thought sex was dirty and that they couldn't tell?
I consider myself a man of the world, but I have to admit this is one explanation of pedophilia I haven't seen. Could it also explain why the workers of the world have never united to overthrow their exploitative pimp capitalists.
I am middle-aged, bald and overweight. And I wear glasses and have a beard. If I were to present myself naked to the general public via webcam, I suspect I'd be on the receiving side of strong words from the beak for indecent exposure. Yet I am shocked, shocked, I tell you, to hear that I might be able to apply for a job interview to so expose myself. However, if there is a market for nubile welsh lasses who wish to view, I might make the sacrifice.
Reminds me of the old joke - If a man talks dirty to a woman, its harassment. If a woman talks dirty to a man, its £3.50 a minute.'
Yup, the tatty raincoat, please ...
OK, so the original comment was a bit blokey, (it's going to happen, this *IS* the internet - *AND* a tech site to boot) but regarding the rest - a few years ago whilst at Uni and looking to subsidise my income I was referred for an interview with a sex chatline company (I'm a man).
I suppose if you consider removing your clothes on camera demeaning (which it no doubt is to some people, but also probably not to others) then you'd consider that to be also.
I didn't take the job - I didn't think I'd be very good at it, but I did go to the interview. It looked just like a normal call centre - a load of bored looking people talking into headsets whilst reading newspapers or fiddling with stationary.
"who in their right mind wants to see a welsh girl naked ?"
Well I do - and in case my g/f is reading this - you are the Welsh girl I am talking about. I am planning on see her naked quite a lot this weekend!
<strong Rhondda valleys accent>
I'll tell you butt, theres nothing wrong with a nice Welsh piece!
</strong Rhondda valleys accent>
Paul Stimpson said: "Sex Worker is a job title, not a character flaw. I find it offensive that your attitude seems to denigrate all the honest people working in adult industries worldwide. People have sex and many of them enjoy it. A healthy and honest attitude towards sex important for individuals' development."
There's absolutely nothing wrong with sex, but there's plenty wrong with "sex work", be it prostitution, exploitation of women, or appearing on a web cam for some dirty old man to w@nk off.
"Men, when they are looking for jobs, don't expect to see stuff that is just a few steps away from rent boy, and yet that sort of role is acceptable to be in the range of opportunities open to women."
Sexist pig.
the job was offered to men and women: obviously you objectify women and see them as only fit for this kind of work...?
As for all the shitty attitudes towards sexworkers: HA! coming from an audience with a mostly IT background, that's rich.
Just because YOU don't like the idea of having sex for money doesn't mean it's low-class, wrong or anything else you want to call it.
I would like to see the response of your average prostitute when offered a job in a server room: "what, work in a fridge with no friends and nothing to do but talk to star trek fans all day? That's disgusting, that is. We're trying to keep kids safe on the internet and there's an ad for this clearly humiliating, horrible, achievement-free job?"
Like I say, hilarious.
"whose desperation are they exploiting, though? Since the money is taken from men, surely it is exploiting the natural drives of men for the profit of the women and company involved"
I think this is a chicken and egg argument.
"There's absolutely nothing wrong with sex, but there's plenty wrong with "sex work", be it prostitution, exploitation of women, or appearing on a web cam for some dirty old man to w@nk off"
I think you're painting with rather too broad a brush here. There is a seedy element to some sex work - one which I can't help feeling would be significantly reduced if not eliminated by proper regulation - I'd be interested to hear your views on this. But whatever my or your feelings on sex work, many people feel perfectly comfortable performing it, and that being the case who are you or I to stop them?
"Have you ever seen a "hot" woman complain about porn?"
No, but then again I can't lipread. I've heard a hell of a lot of them complain about it too, and I don't just mean religious ones either.
Actually, I know a lot more hot women who complain about porn than I've seen hot women acting in porn. Anyone who thinks most porn stars are good-looking needs to get out more. You might be a bit disappointed by chest size, but when you're touching (not just looking) size isn't everything....
-->(Luther Bisset)"I consider myself a man of the world, but I have to admit this is one explanation of pedophilia I haven't seen."
-->(j)"As was clearly stated, it's not an explaination for paedophilia, it's an explaination for an abusee to suffer in silence."
Its _an_ explanation, but from experience sadly not the only one, which is part of what takes so long to get over it. I take the original statement by Paul in the spirit it was meant though.
Since the cause of this problem is a court decision, the solution is to amend the laws. Make it quite explicit that government agencies like this Jobcentre may refuse to carry any sort of advertisement that could bring the slightest blush to a maden's cheek, or cause embarrasment to any Member of Parliament who might lose votes from this or that pressure group.
And it is legitimate, as well, to argue that this sort of thing is out of step with valid social policy goals of enhancing respect for women.
J said: "But whatever my or your feelings on sex work, many people feel perfectly comfortable performing it, and that being the case who are you or I to stop them?"
I think very few women in the sex trade would continue selling sex if they had any other option, i.e., it's not a "lifestyle choice" as you suggest. They're just down-and-dirty low-paid soul-destroying jobs. Many have drugs habits. Many are smuggled in from Eastern Europe. These women aren't doing these jobs for fun. They need help to find something more productive to do with their lives.
"If you think there's nothing wrong with "sex work", just answer this:
Would you want your daughter to do it?"
I wouldn't let my daughter become a Tory MP, that doesn't mean that I am not the person in the wrong, though.
Also, it's interesting to change moral questions like this round a bit so: "If you think there's nothing wrong with "sex work" would you let you son do it?"
I can think of a fair few "blokes" who would probably be a bit proud if their son was in a hetro-porno, but would go apoplectic if their daughter was.
Definitely the ultimate desperation job. I read a month ago about a single mom that works for one of those "hotlines". She is given a mobile diadem in which she receives the "calls", so she can "work" from home; the income is higher for this than any burger-flipping job she might take.
Its kind of like someone I knew who sold booze 24-hours in a city where alcohol sales are banned after 2am. He said: "They want to buy booze. I want to pay my bills, and finish college. So they get expensive booze, and I get to pay my bills." True, it ain't my business if "dirty old men" want to get off with phone sex or watching nude chicks on their webcams. At least someone gets better income than the wage-slave-zombies at McDonalds, Wal-Mart and their ilk.
Exploitation? You mean unlike being exploited in some miserable minimum wage job stacking boxes or slinging burgers or chopping up chickens or soldering components onto circuit boards or doing data entry...?
As for "degradation", I know women who work in many areas in the sex industry who will tell you that most of those complaining about the "degradation" of women are actually feminists who think that it is "letting the side down" and think that the women who do so shouldn't have the right to choose for themselves how they earn money!
Maybe when she has a sex life, tried a threesome, gone through the experimental sex stage and grown up, she'll have a more rounded view of the world.
Until then she's just some prude being offended by the most minor thing, and trying to impose her views on other by invoking the 'won't somebody think of the children' argument.
@Andrew
"They're just down-and-dirty low-paid soul-destroying jobs.Many have drugs habits. Many are smuggled in from Eastern Europe. These women aren't doing these jobs for fun."
They're doing them for money and sex. I know I'm saying a shocking thing, that women actually like sex and enjoy money too, but then I'm married to a filipino ex bar girl who misses the frequent casual sex and lots of money. So I have a clue and you do not.
i can't believe some of the comments
a fool wants to pay you money to stand there naked, you saying you wouldn't?
yes, they only want to do an easy job for decent pay because they have no choice - i mean let's face bill gates has said numerous times that he hates sitting around watching the money pour in and is desperately trying to get a job as a builder doing hard work 12 hours a day to barely pay the bills!
i bet if someone offered you £500 to quickly pop in and replace their CD ROM drive with a DVDRW (plenty of money for an easy job) then i expect every one of you that is talking about how bad such jobs are would refuse the job... you'd much rather do a 16+ hour shift of hard labour on minimum wage for less money
and i thought el reg had intelligent readers who could recognise that a well paid easy job is better than a minimum wage difficult job!
Pay for sex or being paid for sex was illegal here a short time ago.
Then our modern , progressive government said that now it is.
Bit like homosexuality- Governments can change law so that what was revolting, depraved and nasty is now wonderful etc. and if you don't approve of it you are a homophobic.
It.s all very confusing.
Time for my coat .
that porn etc is womens way of exploiting mens weakness for the fairer sex, and mens way of exploiting women for titillation.
Picture if you will; woman voluntarily exposes genitalia in exchange for money - man voluntarily pays money to look at woman exposing genitalia.
Do you think for one moment, Hollerith, that successful female pornstars feel exploited?
Rather, they are quite proud of being able to so successfully exploit men whilst simultaneously achieving the sexual gratification they crave.
Sure, some women will be exploited and won't be successful, but that's true in any walk of life.
Evens?
...is how I see the people who think that there's something inherently degrading about doing this sort of work.
"Oh, women shouldn't do sex work, it's degrading" essentially translates into English as "Women are not qualified to judge for themselves what they want to do, nor to make their own decisions. Bless their pretty little heads, they're just too fragile and too stupid to see how degrading this is. So we need to protect the little honeys from this sort of work, because, y'know, women just aren't qualified to think for temselves about this kind of thing."
And that's demeaning and sexist.
You can't have it both ways. Women can't simultaneously empowered and be victims. If women are the equal of men, that means they can make decisions for themselves. Including the decision to take their clothes off, or not, as they see fit.
Even of other folks disagree with those decisions.
Would I want someone close to me to do it? Sure. My girlfriend has done exactly this kind of work, in fact.
While she was in college.
Working toward her Ph.D.
In biophysics.
And yes, that is totally hot. I dig brainy women. That aside, though, the sad silly plonkers who shower judgment and condemnation on the women who do this kind of work are revealing more about themselves and their own perceptions of the inferiority of women than perhaps they realize.
"I think very few women in the sex trade would continue selling sex if they had any other option, i.e., it's not a "lifestyle choice" as you suggest."
I would refer you to my first point:
"There is a seedy element to some sex work - one which I can't help feeling would be significantly reduced if not eliminated by proper regulation - I'd be interested to hear your views on this.
J said: "There is a seedy element to some sex work - one which I can't help feeling would be significantly reduced if not eliminated by proper regulation."
Yeah, maybe. I can't help thinking a lot of men are attracted to the seediness, and they probably wouldn't bother going to a smart, council-controlled brothel. It's like cannabis or CB radio - once you legalise it, its popularity drops right off, which is maybe a good thing.
It's a strange thing, because we do have de facto brothels in every city right now, so called "health clubs" or "saunas". They advertise quite openly in papers. The police generally turn a blind eye. I suppose as long as they're not employing girls against their will (sex slaves) then it's not so bad. It's important to clamp down on the sex slave thing - that's awful.
"Have you ever seen a "hot" woman complain about porn?"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_Lovelace
@ yeah, right. etc.
What's wrong with working in McDonalds, you'll have to learn to deal with people sometime.
@ ac "I'm married to a filipino ex bar girl who misses the frequent casual sex and lots of money." And you have a clue ??
We are a couple who run a webcam on a hosted site. For us, it's not a job of desperation. We do it for fun, but also because we make some extra spending cash to buy toys and also adult "toys". We don't make a living off of this, but we still like to do it. We both at one time in the past, before meeting ran our own individual cams too. We just like to be watched.
As for people saying this women is ugly or has issues, that's going too far. We don't know her true reasons for being upset. She is overreacting of course, but she has that right think how she wants. She does not have to do this job, so what is the big deal? Why is the news even reporting this? She needs to get over this, and find a job.
"If you're old, fat and/or ugly they won't hire you. It's not discrimination to have minimum physical requirements for a job where physical appearance is important."
I think you need to look up the word 'discrimination' in the dictionary.
I think you'll find it'd be what the Jobcentre folks would call a "Genuine Occupational Qualification". I think you need to look discrimination up in the statute books.
Paris? She's done alright out of the whole sex on video thing. Okay she's been in prison for a few hours. I take it back it's the path to hell.
Sad , what has the world come too when we have wankers turning into prudish wowsers in the up coming last of the Generation X or the first of the Generation Z trying to enforce their narrow minded blinkered throwback Victorian era view of the human body !
One would wonder how she would react to an ad from the infamous "Lusty Lady" theatre in San Francisco with it's separate paid for time individual viewing glass windows where the intertubes web cam operators got their idea from in the first place . Although the idea in reality dates well back to the fifteenth century , and now we have a new updated electronic version !
One merely has to tune into normal TV or the ever popular winter favourite "Babe Watch" reruns, go to the cinema or visit a summer beach and see acres of half bare ass flesh of all descriptions from one end to the other ! How one can forget come the cold December winds from the steppes even Pravda prints a page or two of Oz Bondi Bikini birds to liven up the bleary Russian winter season.
Say , don't the Welsh have a few sun lover camps dotted in odd places through out their landscape as well as a popular summer tourist attraction !
Oh well "move along nothing to see except a self wanking person who wants to be and/or er desires to be the next generation of leading wowsers of an elected ambitious politician undoubtedly with double hyphen funny name to whip us back to the dark ages" .
For those that fail to learn the lessons from history are but doomed to repeat the same mistakes for eternity , but sadly some women are not as smart as others and in places like Finland or Sweden she would be met with a very frosty reception the moment she opened her mouth about this alleged problem of her self inflicted prudery !
.....You're just outraged about this being advertised because you're fuck ugly and know that you wouldn't get the job, aren't you?
WTF does a few naked, 18+ chicks on a webcam have to do with "child-safety" on the internet? She may be studying a masters degree, but evidently "studious" doesn't necessarily mean "smart".
"I think this is a chicken and egg argument"
Hey, I didn't know you were into that kinky stuff..!
But *how* is it a chicken and egg argument? Surely it used to be "if you can beat up anyone who wants to stop you, bang away". It's now no longer true. And protecting women has enabled women (or the women and men in charge of them) to enrich themselves. If men were allowed to beat pimps up and molest their ho's, pimps wouldn't exist (there'd be no money in it). What IS possible is that women may be given no choice in the matter, but that's hardly the case here. And even then, it's still exploiting the customer it's just also exploiting the pro.
>I wonder how they cope with age/sex discrimination?
Anti discrimination doesn't guarantee a person will get a job if they can't perform at an acceptable level. This is why you don't see many people in wheelchairs digging up roads for the council. They could probably do it but the work rate would be too low to justify employment cost. The point is you can't decide *just* based on a persons age etc all other things being equal.
Right this is clearly an issue of Sexploitation but as it probably gets tossers off benefits, saves my taxes, pays them a decent wage and then earns taxes from them its got to be a good thing!
Hell i am even in favour of poppy cultivation, stop all those dam imports, create jobs, save taxes, increase tax revenue, help the balance of payments. Might as well its not as if were actually trying to reduce the number of smack heads, they have their own role models now and everything.
This isnt news its just capitalism and stuff, if they can make money off some sad numpty who pays them to strip via webcam then who cares. I mean FFS we have strip clubs and they are much better value for money ............ erm .............. allegedly!
I went into I.T. against my father's wishes. He didn't think it was a good career choice (and 25 years on I'm finally ready to agree!). While there are many legal professions I wouldn't want to see my kids go into either, if they choose one of them when they are adults they will probably tell me to mind my own business when I comment about their choice (which of course I will, it's a parental duty).
Yes, the sex trade is full of forced, trafficked, tricked, drugged and desperate people. That is a huge problem, and legalisation doesn't solve it overnight either. But it also has willing participants (porn stars, playboy bunnies, strippers, chat/cam operators, girls-gone-wild, and pricey prostitutes to the stars/politicians).
Maybe if a legal brothel could legally advertise for prostitutes and recruit locally for the willing, the market for trafficked ones would get a lot less profitable.
Now that I think of it, if my daughter started in porno and ended up inheriting $200,000,000 from her dead 95 years old oil barron husband-of-only-3-years by the time she was 35 I'd say she was doing rather better for herself than I'll ever be able to!
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