And the size is? Also, any antivirus software left alone?
Microsoft has released to manufacturing Windows XP Service Pack 3. The fresh software disgorgement will be made available for download through the Windows Update and the Microsoft Download Center services on April 29. SP3 wraps up all previous Windows XP fixes and throws in some new features that bring management in-line with …
Another chance for psychosoft to hackoff thousands of more customers. Correct me if I'm wrong but won't this update be forced on us?
What happens when someone doesn't want it (trust?) and the PC is updated against their wishes and then the PC goes t*ts up?
As we know - some will! Please someone tell me I am wrong.
Paris because hers always goes t*ts up.
"...users can now complete operating system installation without providing a product key during a full, integrated installation of Windows XP SP3. The operating system will prompt the user for a product key later as part of Genuine Advantage."
I seriously detest jumping through "piracy" hoops even though I have a legit version on my Dell machine. I refuse, as far as is humanly possible, to let Microsoft update, tweak, reconfigure, authorise, validate or otherwise breach my security, and their feined allegiance to the Trusted Computing Group, wherein they agree to (quote follows with annotation):
1. The owner controls personalization.
2. The owner controls the trust relationship.
3. The system provides private object storage and digital signature capability.
...with the friendly NSA back door...
4. Private personalization information is never exposed.
5. Owner keys are encrypted prior to transmission.
...we don't know what the hell they're transmitting back to themselves...
It is also important to know what the solutions are not:
3. They are not fixed functions—they can be disabled permanently.
...like the recent *forced* Windows updates with updates switched off ?
4. They are not controlled by others (only the owner controls them).
...LOL if only...
Nah, the system doesn't matter in the end, it's the clueless user.
Set Joe Sixpack up with a nice Linux distribution, and nine times out of ten, it'll be borked in an hour!
("Honest. I dint do nuffin! All I did was go to www.phish.com to download the special linux codec to run that teen BJ video some bloke emailed me! Now when you fix that, can you get outlook runnin' onnit?")
"install linux because they NEVER have updates".
My memories of Ubuntu were having to install updates DAILY, and major releases were 6 monthly. Plus, the major updates were more often than not an excuse to reload from scratch.
Linux may be more stable but do yourself a favour and throw those rose tinted glasses in the bin.
Paris because SHE puts updates on the internet.
I don't know about anyone else, but the only good thing that Vista has, and that M$ should bring over to XP is the sidebar.
I can't think of one other thing that I liked about Vista when I bought a shiny new PC from Dell (and then replaced the OS with an Ubuntu/XP dual boot).
And if Micro-shaft is quietly dropping Vista in favour of Windows 7 next year, why don't they at least offer the nicer features of Vista as an add-on (free or for a nominal amount).
"Looks like MS have left all the new features for vista."
That'd be 'cause they just know that vista is like a big ol' empty supertanker with both the rudder and throttle jammed. it's only a matter of time befor it runs aground completely.
If they leave it till it does then they figure they can maybe salvage something from the wreckage (god alone knows what), but if they'd given XP SP3 a whole load of vista 'functionality', it'd be like a full torpedo broadside and vista would sink without trace (we wish!!!)
Kinda ties in with "Microsoft promised updates won't "significantly change" customers' experiences with the operating system"
Now THERE'S a scary statement!
Personally, I'll be waiting a while and see what the fall-out is like.
(ie, install SP3 and see what else "falls out" of your system!)
"I don't know about anyone else, but the only good thing that Vista has, and that M$ should bring over to XP is the sidebar.
I can't think of one other thing that I liked about Vista when I bought a shiny new PC from Dell"
I liked the colour scheme - although that's hardly something on which I'd recommend an OS. The startup sound was also less annoying, but that might be because I've only heard it a handful of times.
@ Colin: What has the size of the budget got to do with it? It will always be easier to use a backdoor that's built in to the system than to try and create a new route in.
Why are so many people expecting something new and shiny - a Service Pack is meant to be a roll up of all the patches. SP2 was an exception.
When MS kept adding new stuff via service packs, people complained, now they don't people still complain.
XP is a good, stable operating system. You can add security yourself. I tried Vista, went back to XP. Let's not try and turn XP into Vista - it works as it is.
The frequency of updates on Ubuntu systems is because the updates apply to the OS plus all (or nearly all) the other software installed on the machine. I rarely get OS or basic service updates - my stripped down servers (Ubuntu server plus Apache, PHP, MySQL on one, and Ubuntu server plus nfsd, vs-ftpd, Apache and Samba on the other) only receive patches occasionally. Also, I'm completely in control of whether and when they install, and I've never had one break anything on any of my machines or 'significantly change my user experience' (I presume this means disabling my USB keyboard and mouse or throwing my machine into a continuous reboot cycle...).
I've at least been trying out the beta release of SP3 for quite a few months now and truly, it doesn't seem to make things much different (from the UI point of view). No new programs and features álá SP2's Security Centre were added, and the boxen running SP3 have been as stable and happy as when it was only SP2. XP is a good OS and I think, with the sudden focus on W7, that even Microsoft have realised the mistakes they made with Vista. Remember, in between 98 and 2000 came ME, but after those came XPSP2. Microsoft always seems to need one ME/Vista 'transition' OS whent the technology is developing too fast for them to keep up with. I'm sure Windows 7 will be more XPSP2-alike.
We don't want XP SP3 to have anything from Vista as that would be the death knell of XP.
Vista only has four good things about it. None of which bring it close to being anything other than sh*te.
1. Power management, it actually sleeps instead of kills itself and hangs.
2. Side bar - well I just like it as I can useful things there instead of having to run things.
3. Network setup didn't use a wizard, it actuallly just worked and found my router.
4. The most important for obvious reasons is the recovery tool bundled onto the DVD which is never shipped to you by a supplier which I think should be illegal as you paid vast amounts for it anyway.
So be happy at only having a couple of features that have been around a while. XP SP3 is the death knell for Vista as only the foolish will upgrade before the next release of windows.
Yes M$ own you but what did you expect when you bought that PC from people that believe blackmail and bully tactics are normal business practices?
Its the final SP for MS's old operating system. Ok the new one is a bit shit and has ME written all over it, but still, MS have a business plan to stick to and that's what they are gonna do. If ya wanna think your being a bit out there and cool, buy a Mac, I play with Linux myself, though to be honest it is not even close to matching the experience provided by MS to the standard web surfin-email checkin-facebook using-letter writing user. I know it can do all of the above, but still not in a way thats idiot proof. So i'd suggest you update to SP3 and sit tight until Windows 7 (which sounds like its gonna be here soon enough).
I suppose we could wait for the Haiku project (http://www.haiku-os.org) to bare fruit.
Chris Curtis wrote:
"My memories of Ubuntu were having to install updates DAILY, and major releases were 6 monthly. Plus, the major updates were more often than not an excuse to reload from scratch."
You're not forced to install the latest version when it's released. Minor releases are supported for 18 months. The long term support (LTS) release is supported for five years (and the patch frequenciy will be lower if you're not on the latest release).
My new mobile contract will come with a free PS3 20GB. I may well end up selling my gaming PC on the web / local newspaper, buying a compatible laptop and sticking Ubuntu on it.
I'm fed up with being bent over a barrel after jumping through flaming hoops, following The Microsoft Way. They can shove SP3, Vista, and all their other bloated crapware up their collective asses.
Anybody smell a rat with SP3?
MS want people to buy Vista - vis a vis, to do this they must show how much 'better' Vista is in relation to XP.
What better way to do this than throw in very small, annoying bugs into their earlier product. Lots of them. Nothing that'll bring the house down, just enough to make it that little bit worse/annoying/slower to use than the Vista experience.
Say helllooooo to XP SP3.
Oh wait, Vistas pretty bad too. SP3 must be a fucking nightmare. I'm holding off judgement it till its done the rounds with all you other suckers!
It will be vista sp3 !
M$ need to do something completely radical like create a new OS from scratch with a windows compatibility layer a la OSX but M$ are too corporate to take this bold step. Windows (including vista) as we know it has to die so everyone can move on.
There is a great article over at Ars(e) Technica on the subject that is well worth a read (sorry Reg!)
As Darwin said:
As many more individuals of each species are born than can possibly survive; and as, consequently, there is a frequently recurring struggle for existence, it follows that any being, if it vary however slightly in any manner profitable to itself, under the complex and sometimes varying conditions of life, will have a better chance of surviving, and thus be naturally selected. From the strong principle of inheritance, any selected variety will tend to propagate its new and modified form.
Linux is changing and modifying quickly all the time !
a) Visiting a dodgy site is unlikely to "bork" any GNU/Linux install unless they are trying to infect Linux boxes specifically, which is uncommon & difficult.Also why would "Joe Six-Pack" want Outlook particularly - he'd probably get his Email online anyway - in these days of broadband most newbies don't know what an Email client is anyway.
b) Debian, which Ubuntu is based upon, can contain up to 18733 software packages,including every type of application you can think of (per their website). Ubuntu is, I think based upon "testing" or "unstable" Debian packages & therefore will be updated very frequently.
MS's updates are just the OS and a handful of apps.
I'm not looking forward to this whatsoever.
XP SP2 works perfectly well now (thought it did fudge a fair few machines when it first got released) - i would go as far to say that SP2 is a stable and usable OS (shock!)
Did anybody have any trouble with Win2K SP4? When that was released it wrecked a fair few customers servers and workstations. But then miraculously after a week or so, if you re-downloaded it again it was perfectly fine (though microsoft swear blind that nothing was changed...hmm)
I'll be double checking my WSUS configuration just in case SP3 manages to somehow roll itself out across my network....now that would NOT be a good day :)
What a bunch of moaning tossers, you Linux lot are ripping into an MS OS, and yet you still use that MS OS, if it's so bad and your Linux is soooo good stop using it, take it off dual boot, from what I hear here there is absolutely no need to use a MS OS.
And your Vista taunts, what is the problem with this OS? The usual bugs (as per any new release of any new OS) sure and an increase in hardware to get the performance.... but apart for that it's a nice looking, responsive and stable. I am completely mythed by the level of hatred from people who don't even use it.
As for the conspiracy theorist who thinks MS are spying on him, go lock yourself in a shiny metal box you freak.
To be fair there must be an OS for masochists too... = Linux.
Some people find Linux (W3.11 on steroids) interesting, as to why is not for us to reason.
We do get fed up with them chipping in on discussions on other OS's praising their own for some vague reason.
Get the message please, please, please... just because you love it does't mean someone else has to... seen it, tried it many times, sorry, but NOT interested.
ffs, why do all the fanboys lamers and FUD merchants just go forth and screw themselves.....
the article is about the impending release of a service pack, it has nothing to do with apple, so apple fanboys STFU, it has nothing to do with linux so STFU...
they will not add any functionality to the sp.... good, they were never going to anyway....
and as for the FUD..... do you realy think MS would deliberately screw up a SP just to try and sell a few copies of a OS that they have admitted has flaws... MS may uses some un-ethical business tactics, but they are not stupid. i remember XP SP2, a month before its release, MS decided to release info regarding a security flaw which would alow the formating of your HDD.... the fix will only be included in SP2....
problems will always arise with new service packs and updates, most of which are because of 3rd party software, written by developers who think they know better than to follow the guides set out by microsoft for programming for windows.... but overall they are in the minority compared with the masses of sucsessfuly updated computers.
get real.... the world is not spying on you, and big corp's are not trying to make you spend money.....
Both my desktop PCs, and my laptop PC run XP SP2.
Both came with the operating system pre-installed, and no operating system CD/DVD (which I agree with someone earlier, is a rip-off).
There may once have been a key told to me when I bought the machines, but I long ago lost it. I'm therefore *very* reluctant to even *try* SP3 if WGA (Advantage - what a joke!) will later ask for a key. WGA has already checked that my OS is genuine and registered to me - why should I have to jump through more hoops to prove it yet again?
"...Microsoft promised updates won't "significantly change" customers' experiences with the operating system...."
So, still a heap of slow buggy shit that freezes up all the time, then. Shame.
I can't believe how badly MS has broken fundamental kernel features like the scheduling and shell features like ALT+TAB or the taskbar since w2k. I'm forced to use XP at work, but I'm sticking with 2k at home for as long as humanly possible.
"According to the bulletin on MS site, SP3 is 70MB through Windows Update or 580MB through the Download Centre (which presumably includes the whole os (???)"
The full package includes everything that's updated (so you'll get updates for everything, including IIS but they won't install). Windows Update downloads updates only for the components and packages you have installed.
Re "I'll wait".
OK, so you'll wait for someone else to create the disk, possibly infect it with a virus, then for the torrent to download rather than just downloading SP3 yourself and typing <spname>.exe /integrate, or using a package such as nlite? Seems more effort to me..
Any validly licensed, shipped as OEM XP systems would have the license key sticker on the case. Pity they do that instead of a certificate you can file away like years ago, but regardless that is your key and should at least be written down somewhere safe just in case you might happen to destroy that sticker somehow or get the urge to peel it off.
Well, I've been running XP SP3 (beta) on my work machine and two home machines with zero problems. The only annoyance is when copying files across the LAN, I get a generic "This action has a potential security flaw", which is an utterly useless message, as it doesn't tell you what flaw, just makes you 'monkey click' yes to continue. Sure, maybe it could stop some malware from installing in less than 1% of the time, but mostly it's a worthless nuisance. I also use Ubuntu, and while their updates are very frequent, they are at least proactive---they patch holes before widespread exploits exist. However, every time Ubuntu updates the Linux kernel, I have to reinstall my NVIDIA drivers. I also get the statement in my bootup messages that the "NVIDIA driver taints the kernel"... Well then, how about an Open Source NVIDIA driver that can actually handle 3D motion, not the piece o' crap "NV" driver?
I suppose if there's a point to all this, it's that updates are a fact of life, and WILL occasionally break things, but SP3 seems like a good effort so far.
I run XP x64, and looks like we're not going to get the SP3 update for several months, if ever. I suppose my next OS will be Server 2008, which seems to actually work better than Vista. But that's only a sensible option because I can get it at a radically discounted price.
As for running Ubuntu, what a joke. Like buying a Yugo to protest against Ford.
As a computer scientist, I wish someone would really write a new OS with new features. The Windows NT kernel is 1990 technology. UNIX is even older and cruftier, and the big disappointment of open source is that it couldn't do any better than trying to polishing that rusty old operating system by adding NT features to it.
I came straight to the comments expecting to find things like "At last", "Yippee!", and "Thank god, now those 90+ updates are history". But no, apart from the few, it's another chance to bash Microsoft - for releasing a roll-up of patches (including finally sorting all those issues that require a hotfix, but you can only get by calling MS to get access).
Don't forget that XP is probably the version of Windows (if any) that most Reg readers are using. And it's finally getting some TLC.
For me, SP3 could potentially save me hours of waiting around (and lots of download GBs) installing Updates on customer's PCs and fiddling with homebrew WU CDs.
Come on guys, Vista may be a disaster for many people (it's also more of a pain to fix), but let's give MS the benefit of the doubt on this one. At least until our CDRw, P2P and AV softwares break on SP3.
"and as for the FUD..... do you realy think MS would deliberately screw up a SP just to try and sell a few copies of a OS that they have admitted has flaws... MS may uses some un-ethical business tactics, but they are not stupid."
They have a documented history of deliberately altering their software to act up in the presence of other companies software. They have been repeatedly caught doing unethical AND stupid things.
Pull your head out of your ass long enough to look up what "FUD" stands for and how MS invented it.
Well, so far this has been a veritable mix of vitriol and bile, coupled with a few calmer statements and a total nutcase with a penchant for the NSA.
Question to the Linux and Mac users... why does this even bother you so much? I mean, surely it doesnt threaten you or your chosen OS in any way, so why go out of your way to rail against it? Has it achieved anything so far, or is it merely an attempt to badmouth a piece of software that you might not have had success with in the past?
Every OS has updates, every OS has bugfixes, and every OS needs attention from the maker. SP3 is just that, an update. As with any update, there will be a fair share of things that might go wrong, but these cannot be tested for on a platform with an almost infinite number of hardware and software combinations. If you'd like to volounteer to beta test all those configurations, be my guest.
So calm down, wipe the spittle from your chins, and go quietly back to your own machine, and by all means praise it in the comfort and solitude of your room. But dont try and convince other users of your chosen platforms supposed superiority by ranting and dribbling about bugs and crashes when your own OS isnt 100% stable.
Oh, and the 'hilarious' misspelling and 'outrageous' accronyms like 'M$' and 'Windoze' just make you look even more childish and foolish than ever. Please do yourself, and the English language a favour, and talk like adults. We might listen to you then.
Provide me with a Linux distribution that works with all my laptop's components perfectly (wifi, touchpad, hibernation/sleep, etc), and will reliably run the 3D apps & games I want to use, run (properly) Nikon Capture NX and many other apps I use (and all without having to recompile the damn kernel!)...
... then fine.
Until then, Linux still remains a server OS for most. Sure it's fine on dumb lite-PCs that have little more than a CPU, graphics card, hard disc, keyboard and monitor. Go beyond that and it's useless unless you buy hardware designed for it... which is a Mac (and there the price isn't justified).
I don't hate Linux (I use it on my server), or even Macs. But the usual stuff of "just use Linux" is really misguided when you consider most people own PCs that really aren't fully supported by Linux, and more so now there's a huge shift towards laptops.
Oh, and on the update issue, I run Fedora on my server and there are more frequent updates on Fedora than XP, and the majority of them are security patches for vulnerabilities (yes, Linux has vulnerabilities... have you see a web server log recently? Most hack attempts are targeted at Apache and PHP which are usually sat on Linux machines).
No danged SP3 is coming near this PC... especially since it runs Fedora linux... except when its running XP sp2 ;-)
I'll think I'll turn off the auto updater thing in Xp and give it a month to see if SP3 causes a spat of crashes/borkups/customers sueing microsoft.... no hold on, that last one happens all the time
Maybe you ought to put pressure on your favorite game and device manufacturers to support Linux, rather than asking Linux to work like Windows. My IBM Thinkpad works flawlessly with a stright off-the-CD Ubuntu install, including the trackpad, the wireless and the display adapter. The only thing I have not tried is the modem, but who uses that anyway nowadays.
The problem with many the Linux software that needs to match the kernel version is that the developers did not understand the correct methods for making their software kernel version independent. As long as you remain in a major branch (like 2.6), it is possible to make your modules version independent.
Even if a module is compiled against a particular kernel minor version, it is often possible to copy the module into the correct location for any new kernel that you install. I admit that this is not somthing that is done automatically when you install a new kernel, but it's not that difficult either. If you have compiled the module, and kept the build directory, try doing a "make install" to see whether that will install it in the correct location.
Unfortunatly, Nvidia do not appear to be able to do this with their 3D module, somthing that almost everybody trying to get compiz running on a system with an Nvidia card will fall over.
SpitefulGOD: What a bunch of moaning tossers, you Linux lot are ripping into an MS OS, and yet you still use that MS OS
Er, no I don't.
Barry White: Some people find Linux (W3.11 on steroids) interesting, as to why is not for us to reason
seen it, tried it many times, sorry, but NOT interested
You clearly can't tell the difference between a multi-user, multi-tasking operating system and a graphical shell. I'd say you're right in the middle of the one-born-every-minute market MS feel at home in. I sincerely doubt that a mouth-breather like yourself has 'tried it many times'.
Anonymous Coward: do you realy think MS would deliberately screw up a SP just to try and sell a few copies of a OS that they have admitted has flaws
In short, yes.
Mikey: why does this even bother you so much? Has [railing against Windows] achieved anything so far, or is it merely an attempt to badmouth a piece of software that you might not have had success with in the past?
I've never had that much trouble with Windows actually; I avoid using it outside of work and find Windows XP Pro stable enough for the VB6/ASP/SQL development I do there. Usually Linux users have a chuckle on the comments page at Microsoft's expense because the system they peddle is laughably foul. It's the Windows people who feel threatened and end up with the spittle on their chins.
dont try and convince other users of your chosen platforms supposed superiority by ranting and dribbling about bugs and crashes when your own OS isnt 100% stable
My bike's not 100% reliable, but I'd still recommend it over a Sinclair C5. Similarly, while I've met the odd fault on a Linux box (usually in some relatively immature utility or application), I can't think of a single case in my many years on this platform when it's badly let me down, or failed to perform an essential function.
TimM: and all without having to recompile the damn kernel!
A bit historical there mate, can't remember the last time I compiled the kernel.
which is a Mac
You have some weird ideas - The Mac wasn't designed to run Linux!
Anyway, back to work. Thank Canonical I don't use Windows.
I've got SP2. I have been updating regularly. What will the SP3 give me that I don't already have?
And, from past experience, I suspect it will switch me to an MS-supplied obsolescent video driver, that will have to be replaced by the current driver supplied by the hardware manufacturer, before some of my expensive graphics software will run properly.
Ubuntu is coming out soon and is said to be the best Linux enterprise operating system (EOS). So whith this in mind who needs Vista? I mean serously who needs Vista? I have never used it but from what I've seen it is so rubbish. Windows XP with its flower pot men icons is so much better. So who really needs Vista now Ubuntu is on the shelves ?