Just get me outta here - anyone know of a decent sized remote and uninhabited island, preferably in sunny climes, up for sale ????
The Metropolitan Police have launched an intensive media onslaught aimed at advising Londoners just what to do if their shifty-looking Arab next door neighbour is packing mulitiple mobes, trading SIMs with the men in black turbans, taking delivery of binary liquid explosives, photographing CCTV cameras, or generally acting in a …
So, the government are spending lots of our money on adverts telling people to waste police time and have innocent people arrested for going about their everyday business.
I would post more, but I need to report a suspicious looking person who lives on downing Street in London -- I think he's a terrorist...
I've got a least 8 mobiles bought over the years...should I report my subconsious (who is obviously some sort of devious mastermind who may have gotten away with it, if the Met hadn't put up that poster, but now his plans are in ruins. The swine)?? Or am I just a fashion victim?
Mind you, I always though people who had more than 1 mobile were having an affair.
The met police have been advertising this for a year, has it really taken the almighty Reg that long to hear about it?
From a London paper in March 2007:
"Terrorists need communication. Anonymous, pay-as-you-go and stolen mobiles are typical. Have you seen someone with large quantities of mobile phones? Has it made you suspicious?"
BE AFRAID! TEH TERRORISTS ARE GOING TO KILL J00!
I'm sure I've heard of a system like this before. Where was it, now... Oh yeah, that's right. Germany. You can guess when. If you weren't fond of your neighbour, you could phone up the state, accuse them of anything you liked, and your neighbour wouldn't be a problem any more. I wonder how long it will be before that happens here.
And given the public's well known abilities when it comes to spotting "terrorists" (ie, men daring to talk in their own language on a plane in Manchester, man with MP3 player, etc), I imagine it'll be sooner rather than later.
They also tend to be fairly technically minded and convinced they can do a better job of governing the world than the current crop of clowns.
Ergo all IT professionals are terrorists, which is presumably why all the government IT projects are as useful as a megaphone on the moon, because no terrorists are allowed in government (apparently).
Which ties in nicely with the cut to the science budget, because tech guys love science, so they'll probably migrate with budget fluctations.
The only flaw in this plan is that mobile phones might be used to phone the anti-terrorist line. If this happens, it's likely that the person calling is also a terrorist and is feeding them a false line. It's probably best to write to the anti-terrorist squad.
With a quill.
Take home message: Mobile phones might not cause cancer, but they do cause terrorism.
There is a guy up the road from me who buys huge quantities of fertiliser, and diesel. You know who he is, the one driving the dirty land rover, wares a flat cap (tweed I think) has a tractor and lots of land.The address is something like cherry hill farm can't remember the rest. but I bet he is making bombs.
Should I phone them???? No f**king way. This advert and all the ones like it are just a way for the government to scare us into relinquishing our rights....
Paris because Brown must think we are all blonde.
I've got an old 35mm film cannister in which I keep a number of pay as you go sim cards. One for every country I regularly travel to. Strangely enough I tend to change these on arrival in a new country which means I fish out my box of sim cards in the airport arrivals area while waiting for my checked baggage to appear.
Should I just go and hand myself in now?
... namely, the use of public funds to terrorise us, to make us feel insecure, and to criminalise innocent people through over-zealous measures. It is far easier to target obliging and co-operative members of the public with "busy work" than to tackle the real issues. Security is not the only area where we are terrorised - I am also supposed to feel fruitlessly guilty about my "carbon" (carbon dioxide?) footprint.
Because everytime I hear that stupid radio advert on my way to/from work it makes me shout and want to do terrorist things to this stupid government. The advert is basically trying to say:
- Don't trust anyone, not even your parents, brother, sister, son, daughter, etc. Destroy all relationships be they friends, family or community. You can only trust your friendly government.
- Report everything you see/hear that might be suspicious (even if your classification of suspicious includes everything because you're a hysterically daily mail subscribing idiot sociopath) to your friendly government.
The format of the advert is just so textbook: slightly scared victim-sounding female and strong authorative reassuring voice over. It makes me sick. It makes me more sick to think that anyone might even buy into it.
Please substitute 'government' for 'big brother' as you see fit.
Anyway that's my 'Two minutes hate' over. Uhoh...
Thousands of people phoning in because the guy on the bus next to them has two phones / took a photo containing a CCTV camera (try and find a place in London where there isn't one) / was very interested in an official building / looked a bit shifty / was one or two shades too cappuccino to be an honest citizen / for the hell of it.
As Clarkson might say, 'What could possibly go wrong?'
Oooh hold on, I've got to call the police, I don't like the look of my colleague's Sony MP3 player - he's clearly a dangerous subversive and needs to be tortured immediately.
I currently have 4 mobiles and my wife has 2, I have 7 computers, and I have a beard. Does that mean my neighbour may call to get me busted?
Com'on this is just another way for the gov't to use scare tactics to get people to stand behind stupid policies like the ID card, which will cost a lot of money but you won't need to use and the police will not be allowed to request you show.
The picture, becuase compared to the gov't ol'Billy is a saint.
Multiple mobile phones makes you a terrorist these days?
OK - i see their point, but to target it specifically as part of a campaign is a bit silly.
I for one had two PAYG phones for quite some time - one profressional and one personal. Many many MANY other people have to do this sometimes up to as many as maybe 3 or 4 for different things.
Now, if operators/handset manufacturers could make a way for one phone to use multiple sims/accounts (without swapping them out/turning them off - yes i remember the nokia 3310/30 dual sim batteries) then that would be pretty sweet....
In your neighbourhood,
Who ya gonna call?
I mean, really! Who do these people think we or they are?
I vote that anyone with any brain in their head leaves the country. Then all that will be left is the dole bludgers, politicians and chavs. The terrorists are welcome to them. Let them do their business and then we can all move back in. Problems solved!
Bill - because it is an evil megalomanic plan to rid a country of the dross and crap.
I wonder how many love rats are gonna get a head full of lead for trying to keep their mistress hidden...??
There could well be an accidental reduction in drug dealers if this initiative takes off - unless that is, they are scoped, tagged as not being a terror threat, and ignored..
Betray your family and friends
Fabulous prizes to be won!
If I recall correctly, the Nazi's succeeded in establishing control over their society by encouraging german civilians to spy on their neighbors and report anything suspicious.
Ok, it probably isn't the same thing, but how long does it have to go on before it is the same? I imagine the germans who did report people felt they were doing a public service. Alas the quickest way to radicalise people is to make them feel like the society they live in regards them as suspect and 'different from us good people' (for a given value of good...).
I've still got all the mobiles that my partner and I have ever had. I took five of them with me to Cambridge last weekend: one for making calls, four as convenient portable java-capable devices for running a custom timer midlet that I wrote for a tiddlywinks tournament. Thank Allah I'm caucasian, because I wouldn't like to explain that to the police. (I also had three cameras on me, so I *must* be a terrorist. *And* one of the phones had a PAYG SIM in it, for lending to people.)
My other half's just flown to the US with one of my phones as a back-up to hers, so that she can make technical support calls with her normal SIM if her international SIM plays up while she's trying to register it (you have to be in the US first, apparently). Maybe I should warn her?
Rationality is something found very sparingly on this forum. There are real people out there who just happen to be living next to real terrorists, and yes, right here in the UK. And even if 10,000 false alerts arise for one real lead, that is a fair price to pay, if you disagree ask the families of the 52 killed and 700 injured during 7/7.
Thousands of people eat food.
What if someone in a shop seems suspicious?
Terrorists need food. They often buy a lot of food in one go, more than one person could possibly eat in a day, to stockpile and to share with their “family” in advance of an attack, and they often pay anonymously in cash. If you’re suspicious of the amount of food someone has, we need to know. Let experienced officers decide what action to take.
Thousands of people have friends.
What if one of them seems odd?
Terrorists use friends to help blend in to society and to make it look as if they’re normal and cool and popular. But they’re not. If you see someone with an odd friend, or with more friends than you, we need to know. Let experienced officers decide what action to take.
Surely you mean the same experienced officers who pumped 7 bullets in Jean-Charles De Menezes' head?
To be perfectly frank, if I want to own 10 mobile phones and keep 100 litres of ammonia and fertilizer in my bathroom, that's my business.
Until such time as these products are actually used in a terrorist plot then it becomes the Met's business. But not before.
..oh wait, he does run a mobile shop so maybe he is not a terrorist!
Primary aim of the act of terrorism is to terrorise, cause alarm and make us change from our normal way of life, explosions and shootings etc are the by product. Soooo that means the UK Gov are terrorists by this very definition!!!
I think big Clint Eastwood summed it up best for us about the way the country is just now, when asked for an assessment of the situation, ..."No Sir, it's a cluster f*ck!"
Don't those Blackberry doodads come with a multiple simcard option?
I saw this bloke using one in Westminster. The sharp suit isn't going to fool anyone; not when you're calling for things that are antithetical to the "British way of life" (tm). He'd got past Parliamentary security and everything!
"How can you tell if someone’s buying unusual quantities of stuff for a good reason or if they’re planning to make a bomb?"
What? Like Northern Rock shares?
The police who are supposed to be doing the surveillance have outsourced their work to the Joe public. So why not dissolve this force and we all become self regulated anti-terrorist enforcers (Suspicious or otherwise)?
By the way when has surveillance worked for a determined Terrorist outfit?
Like all other goverment departments, we seriously need an Audit of Cost Effectiveness of such stupid and horrendously expensive measures.
If they can increase the cost of Passports. ID cards and other services to REFLECT the true cost of providing such services, can they now justify the billions spent on surveillance with increased number of terrorist arrests?? Its got be pro-rata and reflective of services provided. Same logic, innit??
MInes the bulletproof one with extra pockets for 4 mobile phones I carry.
Group of kids hanging around in the vicinity of your house? Well, they probably change their mobile every couple months, and they wear hoods, which are almost a turban, and they're always filming things on their mobiles...... soooooooo..... THAY MUSS BE TERRAHRISTS!!!!
Voila. End of kids
Neighbour's hedge getting overgrown? Maybe he's using fertilizer! Which is a bomb ingredient! And I saw him making a home movie in his back garden! Which could be able to be zoomed to the CCTV camera on the motorway in the distance! soooooooo..... HE MUSS BE A TERRAHRIST!!!
Voila. End of neighbour's uncontrollable hedge.
(As a foreigner with 3 mobile phones, a penchant for wearing a DPM (camouflage) jacket, a beard, and an Asian gf, I can hear the 'coptors in the distance...)
Really, this is the megalomaniacal dream of any budding BOFH - just send the boss out to the mobile phone shop with all the company mobiles "to get them antenna-stresstested" or something and then ring the number.
"Hello officer ? I saw a rather confused feller with an armload of mobiles walking down the street ... yes, I think I heard him mumbling in Arabic too."
This is nothing short of pure panicmongering. I'm almost inclined to cynically state that "our rights are being suspended to garantuee them" - if it wasn't coming so awfully close to the truth ....
Black Helicopters, they might be here any moment ....
Ok, there's a lot of people here taking the mickey. Why though? What else could you do to actually find the people who are acting suspiciously from those that are doing something innocent other than getting the police to actually do their job.
It's like trying to spot dodgy credit card transactions amongst the thousands upon thousands of genuine ones. Yes the police will make mistakes, and yes the system isn't perfect but when you're faced with people who are willing to lay down their lives to achieve their ends and aren't afraid of the consequences of their actions, what else can you do but become vigiliant to the point of paranoia.
are you a simpleton? grassing someone for carrying several mobiles or looking suspicious is akin to living in 1984 (the book, not the year) but to be fair, it was much better back then, i was younger, booze was cheaper, but seriously what the effing is this country becomin or should that be is.
totalitarian rule by the majority for the masses, the government rule on terror, trying to scare every man in the land with this so they can erode your liberties, rememember you voted em in, you can vote em out, rise up and start a new party that does away with the crap like this,it can happen.
mines the helicopter to get the feck off this island
cuba sounds nice
Really... and them taking my DNA profile while they're at it is ok too? Just like they did with David Mery?
NOT A BLOODY CHANCE!!! I am NOT a criminal, and I will NOT be treated as one, even if it's on the basis that "10,000 false alerts arise for one real lead, that is a fair price to pay".
I'm sorry, but I've come from a country that intimidated its citizenry with 'OMG, they're hiding behind the doors, they have bombs, you must report them!' and the like. I moved to the UK to be free of that crap.
Except... now the Met is starting up with the same.
Yep by spreading this "propaganda" the terorists win again. Just like gangs and yobs win by people staying in there houses and being scared. Terorists win by hindering on our lives by making us more paranoid!
Come terrorists come and get me you wusses!!!
Oh and i have two phones 1 computer and 2 laptops. Done chemistry A-level doing a degree in comunication engineering! I must be on some sort of watch list by now?
"And even if 10,000 false alerts arise for one real lead, that is a fair price to pay"
The problem with that neat little theory is that while the keystone kops are running down 10,000 false leads, they will be to busy to do proper investigative work, or their actual job, which you, may remember is law enforcement.
And you have a fairly fucked up definition of "fair" if you think it involves 10,000 innocent people being arrested and held without charge while the state rummages through their lives trying to find some evidence that will be enough to convict them of one of the new thought crimes, like owning any book that describes anything that could be considered "useful" to a terrorist. Fail.
"if you disagree ask the families of the 52 killed and 700 injured during 7/7."
Well, I seem to remember many of those people on the news at the time saying how wrong it would be for the government to take our liberties as a result. But even if my memory is faulty, why the fuck should I care what they think ? I am entitled to form my own rational opinion without having to defer to them, thank you very much.
Now piss off back to the Daily Mail forums where you so clearly belong.
Now, back to the point, I suspect that this is just more security theatre. Probably all the calls will be ignored, but it's there to make you feel safe. The fact that it has the opposite effect on a large portion of the population has obviously escaped the Met, along with all these supposed terrorists they claim are knocking about the place but never seem to be able to find.
3 laptops & 2 desktops
2 mobile phones, a pda, a mobile broadband modem with a total of about 10 sims (from various countries)
3 digital slr cameras
2 point and shoot cameras
2 medium format cameras
2 35mm film cameras
a penchant for taking pictures of buildings, people and other things.
Travel regularly and have "strange" people visiting at all times.
Good god I must be a terrorist........ no hang on I'm a photographer.
FFS this country has totally lost it.
A founding principle of a just, free and democratic society is that it is better that 10 guilty people go free then one innocent be imprisoned.
52 dead people versus the freedom and liberty of a whole society, yeah I'll take those numbers. Better to die free then live in prison.
Shit, 1,000, 10,000 a 100,000 dead I'd take those numbers against living in a cage - only the scared and cowardly would willingly take refuge in a police state.
Also I'm pretty sure far more people would be saved if the billions wasted on security were invested in health care and road safety instead.
WTF is a normal everyday person?
The way that lady says it on that advert is also most patronising.
"The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.":- Ayn Rand
there are so few terrorists living in this country, that we've had almost no successful prosecutions of them, and no attacks since 7/7.
If you happened to be one of 10,000 who were rounded up in the middle of the night at gun point purely because of someone holding a grudge or having a paranoid suspicion perhaps your attitude that it's all OK to trample over civil society would change.
Society should be very suspicious of the state when it starts telling us to be fearful of our fellow citizens, there is no good that can come of it
I live in Spain so all my neighbours are foreign (better remember to tick the anonymous box for that) and given their propensity to talk it seems that all have them have at least 16 mobes. In fact if I were to report anyone for being out of the ordinary it would be myself as I don't even have one.
As for large quantities of stuff, close to twenty years ago when things weren't so liberal here whenever I visited the UK I used to buy box loads of johnnies. I got a lot of strange looks from girls in the chemists which I thought bordered on admiration but thinking about it now they probably thought I was a drug baron running a smuggling ring and it was suspicion. Good job this advert wasn't around then.
...I actually work in handset development, not only have I got 11 mobile phones in my desk drawer right now but a good proportion of them have got wires hanging out, extra bits of circuitry Kludged onto the back, or otherwise look a little odd. I really don't think I want to run into any of those "specially trained officers" when I've got a couple of those on me... :-)
Skull and crossbones because, well, it's just not healthy is it...
...This, at the same time as Orange and other operators are currently *giving away* PAYG sim cards.
Yes you heard that right.
My girlfriend dropped by the local Orange shop the other day to top up her PAYG phone, and was given - free - a new 'spare' SIM with its own separate number.
Not a lot! Determined terrorists will always find a way. We implement measures to try and stem the flow, stop it if we can, but this is a poor effort at it by the UK Gov.
When was the last time we stopped terrorists with good intelligance? 1997 ;-) This is called democracy.
The alternative? Do a Kenny Everett, "Round them up in a field and bomb the b*stards"
"...What else could you do to actually find the people who are acting suspiciously from those that are doing something innocent other than getting the police to actually do their job..."
How about spending some of the umpty-billion pounds that will be wasted on ID cards (most of which will be carried by the innocent) on running effective police forces and intelligence services?
How about just ignoring the terrorists (whose effect is utterly insignificant in the greater scheme of things) instead of *doing their work for them*?
A couple of people here are on the right track. Using multiple SIM cards, within the UK, is an important indicator in the profile of a drug dealer.
By conflating an aspect of the behaviour of a typical dealer with terrorism, the met get loads of tips that will lead to drugs arrests, all paid for out of the anti-terrorism budget. Genius!
The only thing that's changed is who you do the reporting to. Back in the day, if a person who lived down the road bought a new car there'd be a load of anonymous tip-offs to the tax man from crazy neighbours who think something dodgy must me going on if someone, especially a foreigner, appears to be better off then them. Actually, this is still going on.
I have, I'm one of them (September 11th and July 7th - I'm some sort of jihadi magnet.) I don't invoke my dead friends' memory to support my arguments so what the hell makes you think you can?
And you know what else? You're wrong. This advertisment and nearly all of the gov't's anti-terror bluster is creepy, authoritarian and self-serving. It does far more to terrorise people than any nutter with a rucksack. Worse still I know there are plenty of people like you out there who go along with this sort of nonsense. Each of you makes our country just a little bit more paranoid, insular, tense and unpleasant to be in every time you argue for control, surveillance and surrendering of basic rights and freedoms.
Get on with your life, Joe, and try to remember how lucky you are to live in a country that has a tolerant culture and civil liberties for you to attack.
Has anyone else noticed the very strange government doublethink that this introduces? On the one hand you have ministers talking about the need for community, inclusiveness and integration, yet here we are being told to treat the very members of that community with deep suspicion, to the extent of reporting on them.
There have been many stories recently of photographers being harrassed by (mainly) PCSOs. They seem to go for the people who have set up tripods and seem to be hanging around for no reason.
There is a reason - waiting for the right light conditions. I can't imagine your average terrorist bothering about the aesthetics of the image, they would want to take pictures and leave the area as fast as possible.
I also read somewhere of a photographer who was fed up getting stopped and questioned. He started wearing a fluorescent safety vest when out and about with his camera and found that he was no longer being stopped!
I would think that 10,000 false accusations would be enough to generate a few more 7/7s. This sort of shit drives people straight into the arms of the extremists!
"Also I'm pretty sure far more people would be saved if the billions wasted on security were invested in health care and road safety instead."
That's just crazy talk; anyone would think that thousands of people die each year from hospital superbugs...
(Anon because I don't think that black helicopter's an air ambulance)
Is that three unregistered PAYG mobiles in your pocket sir? or something big I impale myself on?
P.S. If the telco's monitor the IMEI numbers used as well as the SIM card number don't they - If so, what a waste of money!! (Hopefully someone will say if this is the case!)
I can just picture the text message alert ...
Dear subscriber, you've used 2 unregistered SIM cards in this phone and we have sent the CO19 to shot you, please don't travel on a bus or tube ... P.S. Would you like to upgrade to a contract with free ring dings? call 0871 XXX XXXX now!!!!!!
I understand that some of you need more than an average number of mobiles. Some need to talk to bearded foreigners, even worse, in Arabic language. Or all the other stuff.
Let's be civilised, let's do permits and certificates for all of that. Visit your friendly neighbourhood police base and inform them how many mobiles you need, who your Arab contacts are, with passport numbers, why you need some inflammable liquids in your place, request permission to take shots in public places. Then all will be noted, certified, signed, entered into a database. With this cert at hand, you'll be able to pursue your daily activities unhindered. Should any suspicion arise, simply pull out your permit, stating you are allowed to carry more than one mobile, to speak in Arabic, etc.
There is no terrorism in this country, how often does someone you know or have ever even heard of become the victim of terrorists, i realise that we have had a couple of bombings in this country in recent years and it's sad that people die, but we've got it really cushy here there are plenty of countries where terrorism happens on a day to day basis.
I for one am not worried in the slightest about terrorism but sadly i can see the day when it becomes so hyped that the lovely government build a Gaza style wall with checkpoints right around London to keep out the supposed waves of suicide jacketed nutters
Ignore them, and they will go away. And even if they don't, so what ? The the TOTAL number of casualties caused by the PIRA, the loyalists, the military and the security forces between 1969 and 2001 is estimated at 3,524 , with only 2,056 attributed to PIRA.
So, for the entire THIRTY TWO YEARS of actual terrorists, regularly committing actual atrocities and actual soldiers actually shooting people with guns, the total casualty figure is only slightly more than the number of people who died in fatal RTAs in 2006  (3,172) A figure which itself is higher than the number of fatalities caused by the attacks on the USA on September 11 2001.
Now remind me again, why am I supposed to be worried about terrorism ? So far the *average* score for the "islamic" nutters is ~18 fatalities per year (since 2005), including bombers.
It's getting tedious to hear, I know, but you really are, genuinely, much more at risk of being run over. And you manage to integrate that risk in to your daily life without any problems whatsoever.
 http://www.cain.ulst.ac.uk/sutton/book/index.html#append, I make no claim as to the accuracy or otherwise of these numbers, direct your flames to the authors.
 'latest' figures, released Feb 7 2008, the intro on the website refers to Q3 2007, but all the tables in the report quote 2006, I don't know if this is 06/07, or if just takes a really really long time to count the dead.
I recently went through airport security a few times with:
2 phones (Personal and Work)
2 laptops (Personal and Work)
1 UMPC (I'm a huge nerd)
1 Palm Pilot (A PDA that isn't an iPhone is probably unAmerican by now...)
1 MP3 Player (Also non-apple, in fact Korean... those bastards have nukes or something right?)
All of the cables, usb dongles, chargers, and adaptors required for above stuff
2 Matched sets of mechanical pencils
A pad of graph paper 3/4 filled with cryptic sketches and writing (Even math!)
So I'm a terrorist? Nope, just an Engineer.
Here in Cambridge we've had posters up claiming that we should report anyone hiring a van, using computers, or taking photographs as well as having lots of phones.
See http://the-hug.org/opus353.html for a photo and transcript of the text.
The other poster saying terrorists use protective equipment (goggles, masks etc.) and terrorists use garages and sheds is insane.
I use protective equipment and have many masks and goggles and gloves etc. hanging up in our barn. We also have a barn its a step up from a shed therefore we must be TERRORISTS!!
F*ck it, we also have chemicals and barrels of diesel. And syringes, I'm sure we could terrorise with them...
I also have a debit card and a passport OH NOES!!!
Here are the respective ads: http://www.surrey.police.uk/npage.asp?artid=4599
Well , now we know Joseph Stalin will be smiling in his grave.
If the in the so called democratic nations continue with this mindless propaganda to create the illusion of safety with big brother the NKVD/Black Shirt Storm Troopers armed to the teeth watching over you as they herd their victims to some nameless hell pit gulag , like in the Soviet Union of Old !
Now the only thing missing to complete the circle , is the massive public show pony trials , where the unfortunate brainwashed individuals get to recant their sins of the day Jose Padilla style in public before going to the wall and the mass media egging them on from one progrom to another !
For some reason , why we went off to fight a global war in another century seems to be rapidly fading from the pages of history as time goes by , well if the Japanese can reduce ten years of fatal military history to one chapter , it won't be long now for that affair to be reduced likewise !
The Met, GMP and a few other forces have dedicated CTUs that don't do any normal police work. Best thing we can do is follow the instructions and report EVERY person taking photos, EVERY person with more than one mobile, EVERY person waiting in a public place, train stations, etc. That way the CTU boys will be kept nice and busy answering the phone all day rather than victimising people.
Poor @joe , to blind to even read the preventable death statistics that both government and insurance companies love to publish annually , for it may open your eyes to what happens in the real world outside the illusion of the propaganda safety banner that you choose to hide behind with your concrete mind set .
Yes now , now where was that statistic about how many are killed and maimed in preventable motor vehicle incidents or those where trains and buses collide as well on an annual basis in the UK , perhaps a total ban on something called a car is in order given the sheer number of accumulated deaths for the past one hundred plus years !
Oh , do I suddenly hear a deafening silence , I wonder why ?
>Now remind me again, why am I supposed to be worried about terrorism ? So far the *average* score for the "islamic" nutters is ~18 fatalities per year (since 2005), including bombers.
That bears repeating. Even 9/11 - killed 3000 people (more or less). Do you have any idea what the annual traffic death toll is on US highways? 42,196 in 2001. And 17,400 of those deaths were *completely avoidable*. That's right, they were due to alcohol. Imagine. Drunk drivers killed over 5 times as many people in 2001 as radical islamists did. And we still smile and look the other way when one-strike laws are proposed in the legislature. Can't have our judges and politicians and captains of industry going to jail when all they did was have a little too much to drink at the party, now, could we?
Security theatre. No significant threat. Your chances (at least in 2001, they're much better now) of being killed by an islamist martyr are 14 times less than being killed on the drive home from work by someone who's dialling their mobile or has stopped at the pub on the way home.
Skull and bones because islamic martyrs are about as much of a threat as P2P music pirates.
"I for one am not worried in the slightest about terrorism but sadly i can see the day when it becomes so hyped that the lovely government build a Gaza style wall with checkpoints right around London to keep out the supposed waves of suicide jacketed nutters"
FILL IT UP WITH WATER!
London's a fucking blight anyway.
To all rabid coppers and trigger-happy idiots of the Met - that wasn't a serious suggestion. I'd at least let anyone who wasn't a civil servant, Met officer, MP, government official or part of the cast of Eastenders leave first.
I got stop searched in liverpool street the other day for "counter terrorism" and the first thing the guy said to me was "DO.. YOU.. SPEAK.. ENG GLISHHH?"... Uh yeah mate I'm white british from Essex lol!
They had a good ruffle through my bag, asked a couple questions about what I do and where I'm going and off I trundled. To be fair they were quick and courteous throughout the whole thing.
Dear oh dear...
I thought this one was a joke, but now I'm really not too sure...
Can't we all call the "terrorist hotline" at some pre-arranged time, maybe crash their phone system for pure comic value? Surely we could then call ourselves 'real' terrorists then?
Can't wait til we get that here - there are a number of people whom I could report just to fuck their year up! See how they like having the fuzz crawl up their arses with a microscope all due to one anonymous call (from an unregistered PAYG mobile, of course) - that'll teach them to let their cat shit in my yard or play their music too loud. Fucking Christian songs, too!
In all seriousness: that's the sort of shit that's likely to happen - TPTB typify the old adage "those who do not learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it." Have they learned nothing from the various witch hunts (both actual and figurative) over the centuries? Don't like someone? Just point the finger of accusation and the "professionals" (the Inquisition, the Witch-Finders, the House UnAmerican Activities Commitee, the Gestapo, the Stasi, the Met) will investigate.
Even if the person does not wind up incarcerated or dead, you've certainly "given the bastard something to think about"...
Too pretty, too ugly, too old, too crabby - "she's a witch!" Ha ha, now she's being dragged out and humiliated in public, put to "the test"... Oh, she died, mustn't have been a witch after all. Look, that one lived, burn her!
I hate that prick, see how he likes a 4am wake-up call and "Kommen Sie mit uns" at the point of a snub-nosed P-38K, that'll fix the little fucker!
Way to go, UK! Great community spirit in the proud tradition of INGSOC!
And I can see our fucking retarded government following suit (despite the fact we've only had one act of terrorism in our country's history and that was done by the French) as they invariably do when it comes to dumb-arsed schemes from other Nations - it's a Kiwi Politician thing: look at the biggest stupidity happening elsewhere and adopt it.
And of course, the sheeple will lap it up - some other way to dob in your neighbours if you don't like 'em because it gets a bit repetitious phoning up Child Youth and Family Services with wild allegations about child abuse or dobbing in your dole-bludging neighbours with allegations of benefit fraud (besides, the pricks might not have kids or might not be on the dole so it would be nice to have someone other than CYFS or Social Welfare you can call to make their lives a misery.)
@The Other Steve:
Great points well made! Now we just need a hot-line to dob in those neighbours who own a motor vehicle as they are more dangerous than the terrorists hiding in our midst.
I have never been on a plane or bus that thas been hi-jacked by terrorists, I have never lost a family member or friend to terrorism. In short, no terrorist organisation has directly touched my life.
But the government and the airlines, with their knee-jerk "we have to appear to be doing something even though a five-year-old can see it's not going to make a bit of difference" reactions have affected my life directly and adversely.
I've personally lost more friends and family to accidents than terrorist action has taken in New Zealand and the government says we should be scared and that airlines must increase security to the point that everyone boarding a plane is inconvenienced.
I'm not looking forward to measures akin to the Mets' Orwellian Wet Dream being adopted here. The more I see what is going on around the world under the guise of "counter-terrorism", the more I dread what sort of world my children will be growing up in.
> What else could you do to actually find the people who are acting suspiciously from those that are doing something innocent
Nothing; absolutely nothing - or at at least not without making someone innocent suffer at the hands of our overzealous secret plods. Ask David Mery. Unfortunately you won't be able to ask Jean-Charles Demenez. In any case, your definition of "suspicious" is likely very different to mine which makes the whole "shop a suspect today!" thing even more stupid.
> when you're faced with people who are willing to lay down their lives (...) what else can you do but become vigiliant to the point of paranoia.
Ignore them. Why on earth would anyone want to become voluntarily paranoid, FFS? The logical extension to this so-called vigilance is to have everyone *else* on the train/plane taken out and strip-searched because I'm only certain *I* won't be the one with the bomb.
I fear Parliament more than the IRA or Al-Quaeda, because HMG fuck my life up regularly and the others - don't. I'll stick with the odds on this one.
now I lay me down to sleep,
I pray the Lord my soul to keep
if I should die before I wake
please don't let the government use it as an excuse to make life worse for the survivors
Are your neighbours getting you down? Is your ex harassing you? Do you feel you are being persecuted and harassed and living in fear?
Well, fear no more! Just give us the name and address of your persecutor and we'll do the rest! For the low, low price of just $20.00 (US) or £10.00 (UK) we will fabricate a convincing accusation or a convincing expression of interest on their behalf to more than twenty organisations including:
The Church of Scientology: We'll say they want join up!
The CIA, FBI AND MI5: We'll say they're walking around wearing turbans!
The Interpol Cybercrime unit: We'll say they're running a botnet!
The RIAA, MPAA, AND BFPI: We'll say they're downloading thousands of mp3s!
The BSA, FAST and Microsoft: We'll say they're selling Vista DVDs out of their garage!
And now - *NEW!! NEW!!* - The Met: We'll say they've got 50 mobile phones and a backyard full of plastic water bottles!
Why worry your life away, when for just $20.00 / £10.00 you can have that problem person gone from your life for ever!
So don't delay - call 1900 - WTCH - HUNT today!!!
I was proud to be British when I heard the London response to 7/7 - many people said they would not change their behavior - "business as usual", "stiff upper lip" and so on. That is the right response to the threat (which is as pointed out above quite small compared to driving, smoking, and drinking...).
If you cower in fear, the terrorists have won. They are trying to terrorize a society and will be encouraged by any fear and paranoia they produce. The Met is helping them with these ads...
Certainly, the police should try to infiltrate them and catch them planning attacks. But not to the point of causing panic or public paranoia.
Also, the harassment some people will receive as a direct result of this campaign will push some people a little farther from society, will isolate them more, and contribute to their eventual recruitment by terrorist groups. This won't be the only cause, but people who are already on the edge may be pushed over...
"To be fair they were quick and courteous throughout the whole thing." Bullshit. Stopping someone in the street and accusing them of being suspicious is anything but courteous, and no matter how "quick" they are, a quick search is still infinity times slower than not stopping them at all.
"Being fair", being polite and generally being British is what allows the Government to ram this crap down our throats. Stop being fair. Resist. Exaggerate. Bring up Stockwell and Forestgate whether it's relevant or not. Treat Godwin's Law as law and not as satire. Stop excusing the actions of the man with the Taser as "he's just doing his job", because his lack of employability outside the public sector is not your problem. Make life as difficult as possible for them. Politeness is not an effective form of political expression.
There's a lot of sarcy comments about this intitative from HMG and rightly so - it's crass and ill-conveived and demonstrates their desire to turn this nation into a land where everyone has the assumption of guilt placed over them.
However, I'm just glad that the posters haven't had the misfortune to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I was once; the botched attempt to bomb Tern Hill barracks in 1989. Still gives me the shivers.
Difficult times indeed.
Working in IT, I'm frequently seen walking around near high profile buildings (i.e data centres -where a lot of highprofile organisation hold sensative kit and data).
carrying a couple of phones, (personal and business) and carrying a rather large and awkward to carry backpack (damn old heavy laptop).
still I've been looking for ways to have more fun on my frequent business trips to London.
I'm paranoid of the government :) and at that voluntarily...
The first thing I do when I enter any building is to check where all the security cams are...
I like being aware of my surroundings so I constantly look around myself and note such things.
And others. At times I wish I had some sort of a portable HUD which would show me various
vectors objects are moving and other such things/details...
I also like taking pictures of interesting things(which can be anything from a building to a rock).
I carry with me always:
2 swiss army type knives, one multitool, an umpc(the eeek pc http://www.dtdm.net/eeek-pc.jpg), a ton of usb gadgets and most likely soon two phones(one private and one work) also I like wearing
camo paterened clothes and gear. I like to solder some small projects here and there and generaly mess with things to see how it works or just how it all fits together...
I wonder how many terrorist profiles I just hit...
The not yet terrorized citizen of Slovenia... but hey... you never know...
We've been warned about this so many times yet are still so blind as not to see what's happening. Are we a nation of halfwits or something?
Part of my skillset includes dealing with fire prevention, intruder alarms and looking after CCTV stuff, so I'm naturally interested in where fire sensors, PIRs and cctv cameras are. Sometimes I'm stuck with three phones: a personal one, a personal business one and a work thing. I also carry a camera with me because like others I enjoy taking photos of things. Buildings and trains tend to be the majority of my photos at the moment. A multitool is standard issue as far as I am concerned.
And this all fits into my backpack along with a laptop.
Here's something I wrote in August 2005, suitably censored (and I was in London on the day of the 7/7 bombings, on a train behind the one that got blown up).
"Thanks to the allegedly responsible reporting of the BBC recently ["Bomb suspect arrested by police was carrying a backpack, the BBC has learned"] I and many others who carry a backpack to work are now the recipients of paranoid glares from halfwits and dips**ts who seem incapable of individual thought. If you hadn't noticed, I'm a bit p****d off.
Right braindead brigade, here's a wake up call aimed right at you. Read on and learn...
Why should someone carrying a backpack be a suicide bomber? Look around the train you're on - anyone could be carrying enough explosive to blow the train carriage to little tiny sardine tin pieces: the man in the suit with the laptop case looking stressed because the train is late. His colleague who's carrying an A4 portfolio case. The cute goth girl with her Emily The Strange bag. The middle aged woman coming back from her shopping trip with the Next plastic carrier bag. The guy sat reading his Bible and carrying a battered lather satchel. The guy with four Tesco carrier bags could have enough explosive to take out the entire Birmingham New Street Station and shopping centre complex. The guy wearing a very puffed out looking jacket could have a whole torso wrap of the stuff!
Get the picture?
BACKPACKS DO NOT EQUAL BOMBS!!!
Wake up, use your eyes and your wits, even if you only have half the complement the rest of us do.
Here endeth the lesson."
TallPaul's post shows just how desperate to spread fear and paranoia the government is.
Thanks to Jon Tocker for the idea of shopping people you don't like just to foul up their day.
I feel a prophecy coming on.... UK Gov will pass a law insisting on identification (the only acceptable form being the new ID card) being presented at the time of purchase of any electronic components, soldering equipment, photographic equipment or telephone equipment. They will insist that Phorm hands over all data relating to web searching and surfing for those things. Doors will be kicked down in the middle of the night as innocent electronics hobbyists are dragged off to the cells with bags over their heads.
As Ian Gillan wrote, "Sometimes it's embarrassing to be English"
Mine's the jacket saying "Looking for a country with a sensible government".
I was browsing at work (no firefox/adblock) the other day when I spotted the advert about terrorists using masks and gloves, so anyone using such should be reported asap.
I'm pretty sure I was so surprised I exclaimed out loud, my instant reaction was are they serious, can they not see this is pretty much straight out of 1984. Now I see its part of a wider campaign, all of which seems pretty much in the vein of 'is your partner/parent/sibling/child/friend thinking bad things about the state? Report them quick, and we will come round in the middle of the night and take them away for you, and make sure they confess all'.
The more I read about the state of affairs in England, the more glad I am I got out. You seem to be sleepwalking into a police surveillance state, and everyone is too polite/scared to comment or complain...
At this rate, I don't think I will be going back. Next Christmas, my family can come to me (if people can still travel by then without being arrested as potential terrorists - travelling abroad, must be up to something...).
God help you all...
Of course the degree to which liberty has been invaded here depends on how the police act on this. If they go out and arrest every single person reported for taking photos in the street by Mrs Busybody we have a problem. However if they log the calls and correlate them with other intelligence received to change monitoring priorities that is slightly different. Comments suggesting anyone reported will end up in Guantanamo Bay may be a slight exaggeration.
In the days you could leave your doors unlocked, the reason was mainly because you had no privacy. Everyone around your knew your business and who should or should not be around. Even though this was true in parts of Britain in the 1950s, and is still true of some more remote places today, it wasn't, for example, true in Whitechapel, London in the 1890s.
The reality now is that we have abdigated responsibility for society to the government, either by allowing vocal groups of middle classes to claim that the "government must do something" or by being part of that voval group. We live in a democracy and that works by listening to the majority or "apparent" majority if some people don't vote or speak up.
I would suggest that you cannot have high levels of security, freedom *and* privacy. If you want freedom and privacy you cannot have security since "bad" people also have freedom and privacy to perform and hide their "bad" acts. If you want privacy and security then you no longer have freedom of movement, look at gated communities and "no-go" areas. If you want freedom and security then you have to sacrifice privacy, once upon a time to your neighbours but today, in a mobile society, to the state.
The time has come to find out what people want as a balance of these. As part of any such investigation we need to consider the impact of campaigns like this Met one. It may be a reaction to a post 7/7 study that found people had information relevant to tracking these terrorists down but did not report it. It may be a campaign to frighten people and drum up extra calls, making the next public spending round less painful. Even if it is the first, the second will likely be a consequence.
how long do you think it will be before the governments actions force the "terrorist freedom lovers" to take up arms and start blowing up government buildings/etc in a fight to overthrow the government and bring freedom to the country?
posted anon, because i would probably be one of the first to sign up - it's not hard to make suitable bombs and i will get a government ID card when they deploy the scheme so that i can show my ID to the police on my way in to the buildings to plant the bombs
Terrorists eat food! They need it to give themselves the strength to carry out their nefarious plans! And so their stomachs don't rumble and give them away.
Report anyone you see suspiciously eating food! "Just in case".*
* When we replace cash with payment by biometric ID, we'll get them automatically! So stop complaining about our ID card plans!
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