ISPs baffled by Gordo's 'plans' for web terror talks

Internet providers have reacted with confusion at Gordon Brown's announcement that the Home Office will summon them to Westminster for anti-terror discussions. The PM unveiled wide-ranging measures in Parliament this week (full speech here). Slipped into the middle of the long list of jihad-squashing pledges was news that " …

[Trevor]

Welcome to the machine

Welcome to the machine, They will tell us what to dream, where to go, what we can see, read, listen to.

The only way they can make this country truely "safe" is to have a society of automotons. Created by fear, constantly watched over, threatened and manipulated. And that's just by the government.

Just ask yourself, how bad does it need to get? How many laws need to be created that infringe upon your rights to live your life as you want, before you stand up and do something?

I welcome a revolution, before this goes too far.

Welcome to the machine

I'll get my coat...

[AutumnForester]

O rly

...while ISP are being legislated against to stop Terrorism (including the worst sort of terrorism; software piracy) could the legislation also make them responsible for my car being stolen (positive Driver: LA Undercover review), my house being vandalised (positive Jackass reviews) and the price of milk.

[Andy S]

i wonder

>ISPA has worked closely and engaged with the Home Office to work out an effective notice and take down process... for terrorist activities online

if playing as a terrorist on counterstrike is classed as online terrorist activity. I'm surprised its not been pulled as a terrorist training ground already

[Anonymous Coward]

Yee-haw

As a gun-toting, beer-swilling, drawling, arab-bombing, red-blooded american, I am continually amazed at the ability of Europeans - and, in particular, brits - to get so many things right, and then, inexplicably, screw up the most fundamental absolutes so thoroughly.

As disgusted as I am with the wretched conditions of both liberty and justice in my own country, I can at least have real confidence that my right to express myself benignly, obnoxiously, hatefully, or otherwise is damned near absolute.

I'm certain that a great number of people will start to give examples (But what about taser guy! But what about this? But what about that!) of times when somebody failed to express themselves in one way or another. But those anecdotes are beside the point. We do not have, and aside from a few exceptional historical incidents, have never had, national legislation which regulates our ability to express politically unpopular ideas.

When Reg readers bash 'mercins for being backwards and generally unfree police staters, perhaps they should consider getting their own house in order first - providing, of course, that doing so does not incite anyone to hatred.

[Andrew Bolton]

Error 666

We're sorry, but your attempt to access:

http://www.conservatives.com/

has been denied. This website has been deemed subversive and/or terrorist related by the government.

What to do now:

1. Around 2am tonight, please lie on the ground in your bedroom/place of residence with your hands behind your head. This will mean that being tasered to death while the thought police put the black bag over your head is marginally less likely

2. See 1

If you have attempted to view this page in error, or as part of research, or for some other reason you consider to be valid, your options are

1. Being sodomised by a large armed robber in prison while we hold you for 90 days without charge before tasering you to death.

2. See 1

[amanfromMars]

Jigsaw Zig Zag

""the Home Secretary is inviting the largest global technology and internet companies to work together to ensure that our best technical expertise is galvanised to counter online incitement to hatred".

The Statement on National Security also alludes to an increased pot of gold/spondoolicks and it is as well to point out clearly to the PM and the Home Secretary that such is the Created Nature of the Society Model in which they have floated their Stealthy Phish, that they may be expected to Energise and Exercise some Spooky Largesse on Account to an Account 42 Initiate ECoITus Reservatus .......A QuITE Astute NEUKlearer Quantum Communications Program with a whole Host of Projects as Tangents and Tributaries which Feed and Furnish ITs Cores .......to build AI TEMPESTuous Co-InterIndependent Global Control InfraStructure and Transparent Interface.

Given the Fact that such would Priceless, one would wonder at any delay in transferring seven sevens 42 Give Deadheads Control. And it is only AI Natural Reticence born and borne in an Obscure and Alien Diffidence which does not Share that such Control can be/is Absolute.

And, as endeth the PM's Statement on National Security, I would commend this statement, on InterNetional Security, to the House for some of that NEUKlearer HyperRadioProActivity with ITs Promise in and of CyberIntelAIgents for Real, Virtually.

Gordon Promised Change and IT is easily Delivered Virtually if you are Maslowian Self Actualised and Enabled with the Exercise of SMARTer Controls...... but you will have to be QuITe a bit Smarter than just plain Crazy ..... for the NeXXXXt Stage requires One and All 42BPerfectly Equipped in Sanity.

However, to have got that far, will surely be confirmation enough of One's Fitness for Future Purpose.

Here's a Muse and an Enigma Variation on an IntelAIgent String .... Are the Dead Grateful if ur2die4 and can Live IT All Again........ Laying out Revisionary Paths with Invaluable Hindsight Provisioning For Sight, ForeSight?

And that question to JIC. ....RSVP, amfM, alsjeblieft.

[AutumnForester]

US Poster

David Wiernicki; In UK, which this site is aimed, we say that sort of talk make you guilty of inciting racial hatred, so please apologise or change ‘brit’ to ‘caucasian UK national’. Other than that I couldn’t agree more.

[Tim Pope]

Leave the internet alone damn it

I wish the gov would stop trying to save us from ourselves. the internet as i see it is one of the few places where i can go and express my feelings or read interesting things... when i was younger i read the anachists cookbook... i never used the knowledge for evil (though one day....) i was just a kid interested in the science of stuff that go boom...now they'd lock me away and say i'm a terrorist.

there are bad people in the world and they can get access to dangerous information... but stopping the information won't stop them. it'll just stop the inquisitive minds and it'll lead down the route for a dystopia...

people still get shot in the uk...hey isn't there laws against guns these days...there sure is jimmy but it doesnt stop it

get the hint gordon and get get your coat

[Spleen]

@David

Firstly, how oppressive a society is has very little to do with the laws on its books. In Orwell's 1984, of course, there are no laws, there are just lots of things that will get you killed or put in a joycamp which everyone's aware of. Government likes laws which give it power, but what it likes even more is an atmosphere where it can act arbitrarily.

The US began to go down this route with the brilliant label of 'illegal combatant' applied to the Guantanamo detainees. How do you combat illegally? Aren't you allowed to defend your country anymore? Answer: no-one knows, but no-one cares, so it works.

Equally, the fact that a man shouldn't legally have been tasered for unauthorised speech is practically irrelevant next to the fact that a) an enforcer for the state felt it was appropriate for him to do so, and b) said enforcer received a large amount of public support (check the comments on any site relating to the incident and count those along the lines of "he deserved it").

Finally, we will continue to take the piss out of your regression into statism, because when America sneezes, Britain catches a cold. Our government is mainly at fault - the "anti-terror" measures were on its wishlist well before 2001 - but if the American government had not led the way on taking advantage of 9/11 to sweep power back to the state, Britain's would never have had the balls to go it alone. The international consensus that people must sacrifice liberty for security (and get neither) is led by America. If it comes to its senses, so might the rest of us.

[John Imrie]

How the WOT works

Attempting to overthrow the government is Terrorism

Voting is attemptying to overthrow the goverment

Voting is Terrorism

Linking to this comment is aiding and abetting a Terrorist Activity

[Anonymous Coward]

we have lost they have won

I only listerned to half teh speech, hes an arse and I cant be bothered to listern to the half thought out BS that oozes bubbles and dribbles from his mouth, but it appeared to me that the extremists have won, as we are changing our way of life, change the way we live.

[H'arj Imladd]

Away with the fairies...

message to "A man from Mars" - leave the mushrooms alone

[Anonymous Coward]

@David Wiernicki

This stuff always hits the media but rarely gets anyway in the long run. The police have a DNA database which is going to get slapped down as soon as it's used for anything big (or, probably sooner, as soon as it's abused). The government managed to get some biometrics on passports but that seems more to do with international compliance than anyone really giving a shit.

[Anonymous Coward]

All your emails (downloads/data) Are Belong to Us!

Well, what do ya know, another data grab from our (new) noble leader.

I sometimes wonder what sort of "Freedom" and "Democracy" we are planning to ship overseas when this is how we implement it domestically.

[Alex Plant]

A free Britain.............

They can take our dignity, but the cant take away our FREEDOM!

Oh, hold on, yes they can. Dammit

[David Roberts]

What has this to do with ISPs?

"the Home Secretary is inviting the largest global technology and internet companies to work together to ensure that our best technical expertise is galvanised to counter online incitement to hatred"

So this will be Microsoft and........err........Microsoft..........

[Shakje]

@Andrew Bolton

Why would you look at the Tory site anyway? They're as fanatical about terrorism as Labour, and were as happy to go to war, then of course there's the problem that David Cameron can't form opinions on his own. I hate the loss of freedom, but at least Labour did something useful before the whole war thing blew up, the Tories would have gone to war *and* broken the economy. I was a staunch Labour supporter growing up, and until 2001 I still was, although I was a little disillusioned (meaning I voted for Tommy Sheridan when I could, Labour when I couldn't). I'm Lib Dem at the next one though, and on top of that Nick Clegg is a thoroughly nice person.

[Simon Greenwood]

Actually, I understood a bit of AMFM's screed

He got it wrong though - the Home Office will invite ISPs take part in the war on terror but will expect them to pay for the measures, probably through buying black boxes from EDS.

[Luther Blissett]

Media and censorship

With sycophantic Big Media "on side", the internet is something of a problem for the manufacturers of consensus. What better way to eliminate contrary and contrarian views than by having someone eliminate them for you. From HM Govt's PoV it's win win win all the way - "No, we're not engaging in censorship. No, it's not costing the taxpayer a penny. Yes, it is working to defeat terror".

It's not only that you're all guilty until proven innocent. You're also all thought criminals if you don't parrot the party line. The Catch-22 is that attempting any sort of defence is prima facie proof of your guilt.

So will will see how supine the ISPs are. Starting with how many have other prior engagements on said date.

[Anonymous Coward]

Politicians.....

should be kept well away from all forms of technology.

Most of them cannot tell the difference between a transistor and a tampax.

[Andrew Bolton]

@Shakje

Obviously I clicked on it in error and/or for the purposes of research, but I'm now being vilified for it by a "staunch Labour supporter". Hmm, thanks for proving my point :-p

I'm not a particularly big fan of any political party - I tend to vote for whichever local candidate appears vaguely capable of talking with even a tiny amount of honesty (which was Patrick Mercer for me last time round, so I definitely got that one right :D). Although at least the Tories are against ID cards...

I was about 5 minutes away from being blown up on 7/7 (strongly suspect, although never completely worked out, that I shared a carriage with the Edgware Road bomber until Baker St, where I got off), and yet 2 days later I emailed my local MP telling him that ridiculous knee jerk reactions that impinge on personal rights and liberties play into the terrorists' hands, not harm them. And my position has not changed one iota since.

Andrew

[DaBlair]

Made in China...

Sounds like something else we could import from China.

Maybe in the west we've had it wrong all along !

[amanfromMars]

Away with the Little People would be more likely.

"Away with the fairies... " ..... is a Novel Stealth, is it not, H'arj Imladd? Do not for one minute believe it to be a fiction.

No, Simon, the Home Office have got it wrong if "the Home Office will invite ISPs take part in the war on terror but will expect them to pay for the measures, probably through buying black boxes from EDS." is all that they have to offer for it is worthless.

They are expected to Rest, at no Cost to them or anybody else, the Significant Arbitrary Non Random Figure Sum of Seven Sevens to an Account which Secures IT for Immediate Return in Full whilst using the Interest Generated on Its Account Generously to Further Energise the Program. That then renders AI Programming to Govt. which a) Does not cost them a jot and b) does not require them to fully understand the Depth of the Program [which is fortunate given that some may never scale its vertiginous heights nor delve deep enough into its shadowed Twists and Turns] and c) guarantees Return of Investment.

And if they aren't SMART enough to Dare 42 Win Win, then Worthier Souls will Prosper Greatly with their Generosity and Vision XXXXalted.

Failure to Accomodate such a Facility will identify whoever is in Charge of Change as being less than Suitable and a Block to Progress. One would then enquire as what advice, if any, has minded such a blocking Move and to what Purpose.

[Jón Frímann Jónsson]

Gordon Brown nonsense

Gordon Brown doesn't have a clue about terrorism. Given there current status of terrorist crackdown and there record in the matter. I would say that the internet in the UK is all for dead. UK is also getting close to hit my travel list ban because of how oppressive the UK government is starting to be.

It is interesting to notice the fact that they are just as clueless about the internet as they are about real terrorism (RIA didn't create this much fear did it? It was for my time, so I ask), like the plan that they did discover last year in regarding blowing up air plains with a chemical mixture in a liquid form. But as we all know (well, some of us anyway) that plot was all but a fantasy and lies.

It is also a interesting fact that they (UK and the US) are unable to stop islamist hate sites on the internet. The people doing the real take down are usually black hats that are annoyed and angry.

[Taskis]

Pedantry

I'm not going to bother with the lofty political commentary. I'm just going to pick a quick nit.

This is why punctuation is important:

"... schemes such as the effective anti-child porn collaboration the Internet Watch Foundation ..."

So the Internet Watch Foundation is, apparently, a porn collaboration which is anti-child. One tiny missing hyphen, but a whole world of meaning...

I know, I know. I'm going.

[Taskis]

@ Jón Frímann Jónsson

<< UK is also getting close to hit my travel list ban because of how oppressive the UK government is starting to be >>

Well, boo hoo for you. Pardon me if I don't act all understanding on this one - but ain't you the lucky one? Some of us have to live here, and haven't the option to up sticks and run for it.

[Anonymous Coward]

back in the day

back in the day us Brits were protected by our stiff upper lip - our power to complain - tea and grit (the ground under the swings in our parks were gravel and broken glass, cutting up your knees was a right of passage). We would simply ignore the terror and all the bad things and go "well it can't be helped, lets have some tea and get on with tidying the living room dear"

Now we are a bunch of pansies who want to be coddled and told what to do. And under our seats in the parks (there are no swings, they are dangerous) there is a black plastic foam layer that maybe you could get friction burns from.

I think that we have to point out the IRA pub bombings as the closest link to the current fanatic reactions to terror, porn, crime, etc... and we all remember what happend in the wake of the pub bombings? Find some Irish guys, "coerce" confessions from them, forge documents and then lock them up, make everyone feel better.

Problem is, politicians are elected by the people, and people are stupid. If Gordon Brown doesn't put on a show that appeals to the great retarded masses he has no chance of being in for another term. And the great retarded masses want to sit at home watching sports and growing fat, they absorb everything the media tells them and firmly believe that demenzes deserved being shot in the face, that the mad guy in Canada deserved being tasered todeath, that weird sex play online means you're a pedophile, that if you have nothing to hide, that all imigrants are lazy and here to steal our jobs (lazy... and job stealing... interesting), that its legitmate that people get locked up for upto 3 months without any evidence and that the sex offenders register is a document full of bad bad people.

Those are the kinds of people that make up the population. Sad but true.

[Anonymous Coward]

Encryption and Anonymity technologies

These proposals will not work with such encryption and anonymity technologies such as TOR (www.torproject.org/) & I2P (www.i2p.net/).

More hot air from this discredited government.

[Anonymous Coward]

brother anon

Ah but brother Anon you forget something, in Britain they want to make it (and more or less have already) a criminal offence to send encrypted traffic and to posses encrypted files.

They will simply see your encrypted session and first they will ask you to hand over your encryption keys and prove that you havn't broken the law. If you do not provide this information it's 2 years inside.

If you do provide this information and indeed have not broken the law you will be convicted for wasting police time.

If you have commited a crime (any crime, they're not picky, I'm sure we've all said things online that could be insitement to something or other, or downloaded something, or looked at something on youtube, or listened to a US radio stream) then caching more time in prision, or some fat fines, or whatever.

So you use encryption or anonymity tech you're in the slammer, if you don't then you must conform or you're in the slammer.

Welcome to the free world.

Anon

[Anonymous Coward]

@ back in the day

"I think that we have to point out the IRA pub bombings as the closest link to the current fanatic reactions to terror, porn, crime, etc..."

They bombed the Conservative conference, a direct attack on the government and we didn't have to put up with this kind of crap.

[Garry Baldie]

Galvanised?

Why would coating technical expertise in aluminium help the War on Terra?

[Anonymous Coward]

@ taskis

you can leave, increasingly more people are apparently...now if only they hadn't screwed the housing market as once my house is sold I'm off.