Man wrongly detained for 50 days has ISP to thank

Police in India wrongfully arrested and detained a Bangalore man for 50 days after internet service provider Airtel mis-identified him as the person who posted images on Orkut that insulted a revered historical figure. Lakshmana Kailash K., a 26-year-old techie, was arrested at his home on August 31 and transported to Pune, …

[Anonymous Coward]

We done it first

I worked as a tester on radius servers at BT - the particular feature I worked on mapped the ip address and time against the dial up numbers (it was a while ago =). So you could enter IP & time and get the person who had dialled in.

Shortly before I joined the police mounted a raid on some poor individual at 3am based on evidence we supplied, only at some point during the development the whole BST/GMT thing was err .... forgotten. So the boys in blue raided the wrong house.

[Anigel]

Brown is doin it over here too

Dont forget that they are now upping detention without charge for suspicion of dropping a bit of chewing gum, or any other offense they care to pretend is terrorist related to 50 days over here now.

All in the name of national security they can lock people up and let the police go harass motorists for 45 days whilst you rot in jail before they bother looking for any evidence.

[daniel]

And this brings up a valid point...

How do you defend yourself when :

a) Your ISP mis-identified someone else as you (R.I Ass. of America, I'm thinking about you...)

b) You get spyware displaying kiddie pr0n and get rumbled due to the program mass mailing it's "charms" to the rest of the net and your ISP calling The Bill.

c) Your wifi get's hacked or a friend uses your pc for nefarious purposes

Oh well, we will have to trust the Justice will remember that you are innocent until proven guilty, and will not decide that you are guilty just because they cannot understand the techniques used.

But in truth, you are probably fsck'ed.

[Anonymous Coward]

Good to know

So how long before the same mistake is made while tracking someone down who made a pro-extremist post in this country?

[Chris C]

re: Brown is doin it over here too

"Dont forget that they are now upping detention without charge for suspicion of dropping a bit of chewing gum, or any other offense they care to pretend is terrorist related to 50 days over here now."

Ha! I spit on your 50 days! Over here in the Land of Good Old Democracy ("Land of GOD"), we keep people in detention forever without charge. We don't need to restrict ourselves to no stinkin 50 days. Won't somebody over there think of the children?

[J]

It has to be said...

Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj was a fucking idiot and his descendants and admirers are all a bunch of wankers who haven't got a life. And me thinking India was a decent country...

Isn't it good to be in a place where you can say your opinion and not go to jail for it? Less and less people know the feeling...

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh well...

Just give him a job at Dell or CSC and we'll call it even.

[Anonymous Coward]

if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear.

so what's the problem?

[Morely Dotes]

"Freedom of Speech? Oh, that's been obsolete for 7 years!"

"if you live in a country where freedom of speech is not protected"

Would you care to name such a country, Dan? Preferably one that isn't covered with ice more than 50% of the year.

I live in the USA, and we sure aren't protected from our own government any more. You're only free to say whatever doesn't offend the the Fuehrer in the White House.

[Anonymous Coward]

Free

Thing that gets me is that it is illegal, come on people/goverments it is the year 2007. Sooner we flush religion down the toilet the better.

[Andy Bright]

Before anyone attacks you

I applaud the irony of your post Mr Anonymous. Nice one, but you should have used the "joke alert" thing, too many stupid people are going to miss what you've done and start some retarded flame attack.

[Pete]

@Anonymous Coward

except loss of liberty, your DNA being added to a database with no recourse for removal, loss of property, men with flashlights crawling up your arse...

[Steven Knox]

Actually, we need more of this.

Granted, I don't wish wrongful imprisonment on anyone. But if ISPs can manage to "accidentally" give the wrong user to IP address information a few dozen more times (or maybe Google could "mess up" on the IP address?), that should give us enough precedents to say IP addresses aren't admissable evidence...

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmmmmm

I work for a pretty big ISP, and one of my job's is to supply this info to the police.

More often than not the coppers do not seem to understand which way round documents go in to their fax machine, so it is hopeless to expect them to understand the subtleties of different time zones and daylight savings etc etc.

More than 30% of the requests I get turn a blank because either the IP, the time or the time skew supplied are just wrong.

If they do get a hit, then I have no way of knowing if it is the right person or not.

There have been a number of occasions I know of where the wrong house has been raided as a result of this general spasticity, but none so far that have resulted in wrongful imprisonment - as far as I know.

More to the point - Just what is that a picture of?

[Lindsay]

"Freedom of Speech?" 2

Uh! Watched Jay Leno (Tonight Show) or Jon Stewart (Daily Show) lately. Seems to me that USA humour, and US TV media, has degraded to insulting or outright lying about President Bush and Republicans. Get real "Morely" and get your politics from somewhere besides comedy sites - try the FOX network, they're pretty even in their news.

But you are right about the "snow" countries - and the answer is Israel. And no I am NOT in or a citizen of, the USA. I just respect your country, why don't you?

[Lexx Greatrex]

@Lindsay

LOL! Yeah Fox have the best news team the republicans can buy.

[Alex]

Ahahahhaha

"try the FOX network, they're pretty even in their news."

that made my day =))

[Anonymous Coward]

@Hmmmm..

Do your job the way are supposed to do it you aren't responsible for the mess the authorities make of it (it's mars scaled down it looks dirty though doesn't it). It may take a while but eventually you will find this sort of thing peters out not because the police get smarter but because it will get more and more a routine that then becomes difficult and tedious. Shivaji wouldn't have understood this behavior I think he would have laughed at how mindless and shallow the police are but then he was insanely brave and they are cowards. All police are cowards.

[Mr Larrington]

@Anonymous Coward

Except perhaps a Several of dum-dum rounds to the head?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nothing to hide?

<snip>

if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear, so what's the problem?

</snip>

Ha! OK then, kindly publish your family's full names and dates of birth, your salary and your mother's maiden name.

Maybe we aren't all terrorists or criminals, but we all have something to hide.

[Steve]

@Lindsay

FOX network, 'even' in their news??!!!

That's the best joke I've seen in a register comment in months.

FOX news makes GWBush look liberal.

[Anonymous Coward]

FOX news LMAO

"try the FOX network, they're pretty even in their news."

PLEASE tell me that was a joke.

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuax News?

Lindsay.. are you out of your mind with the Fox News comment?

I've never seen a more distorted news channel in my life. For instance "Al Qeida responsible for California Fires".

What a bunch of morons.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: "Freedom of Speech?" 2

"Get real "Morely" and get your politics from somewhere besides comedy sites - try the FOX network, they're pretty even in their news."

That is just gold!

You're conflating respect for one's country with deference and subservience to one's government, but then, you watch FOX. Surveys have shown that the more likely you are to watch FOX News, the less likely you are to have your facts straight about a subject.

Unfortunately, you can't claim "liberal bias" when it's objective reality that disagrees with you.

[Charley]

Mars, the bringer of war

If you mouse over the icons they will reveal themselves, AC.

This one is reserved for Amanfrommars, may the Invisible Pink Unicorn smile upon him, and his disciples.

[Brian]

@Lindsay

"try the FOX network, they're pretty even in their news"

Ha! That's the funniest thing I've heard all week!

[Shane McCarrick]

Carelessness and stupidity

At this stage, any half intelligent idiot who wants to do anything nefarious on the has several options for messing up their tracks.

1. Crack a handy WEP network in any built-up area (although with the amount of networks without any security whatsoever- why bother).

2. Use IP ghosting and MAC ghosting (particularly easy if you're using a nice little firewall that runs a Linux kernel as its o/s).

3. Bootable memory keys on public access machines

4. Cloning (particularly if you want to frame someone else).

5- I could go on and on.......

Its not difficult to cover your tracks- even if your tracks do eventually lead to someone else. Its also not difficult to blame some of the above if you do get sloppy and get caught- but in practice, the more outlandish the explanation- the more likely it is to be impossible to disprove it (or the more trouble someone will have to go to, to disprove it).

It was unfortunate that the poor Indian guy got over 7 weeks in jail, Airtel should have made sure that the police were aware of the possible problems with the data though- before it was acted on. Then again- Google should never have handed over the IP data in the first place. I'm never going to use Airtel again when I'm in India- think I'll move over to Idea or another of their competitors next time.......

[Simon Ball]

@Lindsay

Was that supposed to be satire? I can't think of any network LESS even-handed than FOX - it's legendary for its ultra-conservative bias.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Lindsay

I have no respect for America. I don't think respect for an abstract entity that exists only by convention is really meaningful. I have a lot of respect for a lot of American people, past and present, but to respect "America" or hate "America" is arguably racist and certainly an unhelpful oversimplification - the same sort of oversimplification that leads to support for a war on a nation because of the behaviour of its leaders or government.

Oh, and Re; "Free" (Anonymous) - I half-agree. I don't care what bizarre schizotypal beliefs people want to hold (and it's not my business to say they shouldn't hold them) but I think there should be no law protecting people from having their religious sensibilities insulted or offended.

[randomtask]

50 days!!! What about the old days of internment

Back in the days of the troubles if you looked like ye might even think about protesting against the police/army/status quo (ie civil rights for catholics in NI) you were thrown into Internment camps! :?

Indefinitely!

[AndyB]

Freedom of Speech 3

@ Lindsay

################################

"try the FOX network, they're pretty even in their news."

################################

What you actually mean is:-

"Try the FOX network, they present the news and express views in a way that supports my own political (right-wing) leaning."

And Bush doesn't need 'degrading' by anyone else, he's pretty good at doing that all by himself.

[alain williams]

Re: Actually, we need more of this.

Good point Steven, and if those wrong addresses just happened to be those of an MP, high court judge or member of MI5/...

[Cameron Colley]

Re:It has to be said...

<quote>Isn't it good to be in a place where you can say your opinion and not go to jail for it? Less and less people know the feeling...</quote>.

Which country would that be? if you're referring to the UK, I suggest you check the story of the student jailed for being a "terrorist" because he made disparaging remarks about Western society and had a few easily-available documents on his PC or, for that matter, the guy who thought it was OK to tell people where streaming TV shows could be found.

If you're referring to the US, I suggest you track down the two stories (I know of) of students being Tazered for being a bit of an ass.

If you refer to a country other than these -- please accept my apologies, and tell me how I apply for a work-permit.

[Alan White]

er...

"try the FOX network, they're pretty even in their news"

Sarcasm tags please!

[Chewy]

@Lindsay

"try the FOX network, they're pretty even in their news"

ha ha that has to be quote of the day

[Dean]

@Lindsay

"try the FOX network, they're pretty even in their news."

You used the wrong graphic. The one you should have used is Joke Alert.

Thanks - I haven't laughed so long in a while.

[Anonymous Coward]

Fox News

'They're pretty even in their news'

That was a joke, right?

[Robert Long]

@Hmmmmm

"More to the point - Just what is that a picture of?"

If you mean your icon, it's the planet Mars, where the Home Office is now based.

[Slaine]

persecute the unbeliever, kill kill kill

@ anon cow - the avatar? that's MARS d00d, or a really psychedelic marble - mmm - now where did I put mine?

@ daniel - remember that in these enlightened days, it is only women who are innocent until proven guilty. we harbingers of that accursed "Y" chromosome must adopt "the position".

So, given a few more wrongful arrests and I'm sure that we will all adopt an IP masking protocol of some description. I wonder, can anyone suggest some simple piece of software that gives me the same internet appearance as, say, the Pope?

[bluesxman]

RE: "try the FOX network, they're pretty even in their news."

Thanks for that, funniest thing I've read all day. OK it's only 10:07, but I still can't see it being beaten.

[Anonymous Coward]

Faux News

Um, Lindsay, in case you didn't realise, Fox News isn't a news channel, it's just the media mouthpiece and propaganda channel for Bush and his cronies. And Israel has one of the worst records on human rights in the world.

Or am I just being dense and missing the irony in your post ? (Probably)

[Matthew]

@Lindsey

Fox = Balanced? Only if you are an idiot!

That would be Fox News that claimed that Obama had been educated at a Madrassa, and made significant inferences of Obama's middle name (Hussein).

Where's the fire-extinguisher icon.

[Ben Holmes]

Re: Hmmmmm

It is a picture of Mars, principle habitat and general stomping ground of the deranged mind that goes under the monika of amanfromMars.

I'm just waiting for awomanfromVenus to show up and give him what for for not cleaning the kitchen.

[Count Ludwig]

@Lindsay "Freedom of Speech?" 2

Lindsay wrote: "try the FOX network, they're pretty even in their news."

...and I just spat out my tea. Is he a trolling dinosaur or what?

[Shakje]

I read Lindsey's post...

and assumed no-one would actually take the flame bait. For IT professionals it's pretty bad that there's so many reacting to obvious sarcasm.

[Steve Evans]

Assuming this is a timezone issue...

... in this day and age, where in theory at least, we know the earth is round and has many time zones. So why oh why are systems that have to work internationally, still logging information in local time and not GMT?

IIRC India itself has several time zones, so the whole idea of accounting for this really shouldn't have been a shock for them.

After all they do have some of the weirdest timezones in that part of the world. Kathmandu being GMT+5:45!

(See, how good am I resisted biting the FOX comment! - It did hurt mind!)

[JayB]

Fox News

Now THERE's an oxymoron for a Wednesday morning.

The concept of Fox Fiction actually publishing anything balance is a hoot. Still, they do say "Hope" is a thing to treasure.

Shakje - we're just scared that good ole' Lins is serious. People have been given Darwin awards for less.

As for this whole "be scared of thic country because of x, y and z" - it's not the countries I fear, but the psycho lunatics in charge, both here and across the pond!

[Steve B]

Mars?

I thought it was an old sepia shot of Clint Eastwood. but then I actually went to Specsavers!

[Magnus Egilsson]

Shakje

Hmm . . . perhaps stating the obvious but . . . whats wrong about having flames and fun at once?

[Steve]

@Shane

"Then again- Google should never have handed over the IP data in the first place. I'm never going to use Airtel again when I'm in India- think I'll move over to Idea or another of their competitors next time......."

Of course they should, they were obeying the law of the country they were operating in.

The fact that you (and I) disagree with that law is completely irrelevant, they have to obey the law of the land, whatever land that happens to be if they wish to have a business there.

I don't think using a different provider will make you any safer.

[Pascal Monett]

Obvious what ?

I wouldn't call that sarcasm. For me, that's a troll.

Nobody can say that FOX NEWS is balanced without either being a liar or, as has been stated above, publishing one's ultra-right wing Bush croonie mentality.

[Duncan Greenshields]

@Lindsay

"try the FOX network, they're pretty even in their news."

I don't think I dare comment on the above without having to accompany my own post with the "steam coming out of my ears" icon. Most people who get all their news from FOX don't actually know there is a world outside of the boundaries of the US...

Compare the FOX version of many events with the BBC and you'll note fairly major differences on emphasis. Then again, the BBC are seemily not overly impartial at times.

As always, I'm amazed at the pure and unadulterated flame bait trolled onto the comments pages of The Register. That and the general level of xenophobia and frankly childish ignorance or arrogance of other people's culture and heritage.

One of the most telling things I've heard in recent times underlying the inherent racism in the British press in general was the letter bomber sentenced recently non being classed as a terrorist. If he were of middle eastern descent or were a Muslim with the same political views as the man convicted we would be triumphing a victory over terrorists everywhere rather then the conviction of another attempted murderer.

[Anonymous Coward]

@Freedom of Speech 2

Haha, I vote that as the funniest post ever. the Isreal comment haha still crippled bent double haha, and I say hey lets build another wall.. Haha Fox haha Israel hahahahaha..

Aside, my vote goes to Oz thats pretty free.. (now do I mean down under or down the yellow brick road?)

[Nano nano]

Since this is a (Great) British website ...

(@would-be "if you've nothing to hide" flamers)

... I think readers should default to reading TheReg posts with an implied surrounding <sarcasm></sarcasm> tag.

[Steve Ringham]

Time Zones and Fox

@Steve Evans

Kathmandu is in Nepal. Nepal sets it's clocks different to India to illustrate

that it is not India - a national pride thing.

@Lindsay

I must be half asleep. I thought you meant the newsreaders were good looking - I'm so used to the variable level of grammar in the comments, that I saw a comma where there clearly wasn't meant to be one!

Now I know differently..........you're a twat.

[Schultz]

try the FOX network

Hmm, try them for bad reporting, or bias? No, I got it! Got to frame them for some suspicious internet traffic ...

[A J Stiles]

Right -- we do need more of this

Things have to get worse before they get better. Hopefully, a few more incidents like this will help to discredit the usefulness of IP addresses as evidence.

Meanwhile, ISPs -- please remember that hard disk drives are subject to random failure, and putting /var or /tmp on a RAID is a performance hit (only a small one, but a million milligrammes do add up to a tonne).

[Anonymous Coward]

But a word of caution..

... how many of us have been on those nice helpful secure sites where they say 'your IP address is xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx' but it's nothing like the real thing, your actual address, your fiewall address or anything else you recognise; 50 days for the output of a random number generator???

[RichardB]

I have my coat ready, so

Shouldn't that have read the Bungle-or police?

[Anonymous Coward]

Pollitics & God

Each of these two is probably a good idea until you start to involve people.

You let people get involved in either and the human base instinct takes over, I need more than my fellow man, I will not be happy until I have more than you.

You mix the two together and you're asking for trouble....

[Lexx Greatrex]

Nothing to hide...

This poor Lakshmana sap not only didn't have anything to hide, he may not have even been using Internet at all. Even Dan (the author) got this wrong: "if you live in a country where freedom of speech is not protected, you can be imprisoned for weeks at a time for no other reason than you use the net" The ISP screwed up the access logs. He could have been prostrate at the alter (if there is such a thing) of this Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj person when the boot boys came around.

So to paraphrase ... "If you have nowhere to hide... you're screwed"

[Peter Johnston]

Wusses

When we get a mistaken ID, we don't just lock them up - we shoot them in the head. Send Blair (either one) to show them how to do it!

[Yuri]

resambles me to two countries

where you are not patriot if you make some questions about how llegal is the ocuppation of an oil producer country...

or the other where the surveillance camera tape gets damaged just when the prosecutor ask for it... the camera that was supposed to have the video of a brazilian guy being shot to death by the police of some english speaking northern country ...

[Jon]

@ Anonymous Coward

Did I miss something or did you just argue with yourself about having something to hide?

[Anonymous Coward]

Tonne != Kilogram

@A J Stiles:

"putting /var or /tmp on a RAID is a performance hit (only a small one, but a million milligrammes do add up to a tonne)"

A million milligrams is a kilogram,

@Morely Dotes

" "if you live in a country where freedom of speech is not protected"

Would you care to name such a country, Dan? Preferably one that isn't covered with ice more than 50% of the year."

Sod the fox news comment. That is the best comment of the day. Canada / Scandinavia, open up, let us in!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Re:It has to be said...

"...Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj was a fucking idiot and his descendants and admirers are all a bunch of wankers who haven't got a life. And me thinking India was a decent country...

Isn't it good to be in a place where you can say your opinion and not go to jail for it? Less and less people know the feeling..."

-----------------------------------------------------

Or maybe not... if you're a UK citizen you might have carried out an offence under the Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006 which amended the Public Order Act 1986 like so:

* Section 29A - Meaning of "religious hatred": In this Part "religious hatred" means hatred against a group of persons defined by reference to religious belief or lack of religious belief.

* Section 29B: (1) A person who uses threatening words or behaviour, or displays any written material which is threatening, is guilty of an offence if he intends thereby to stir up religious hatred.

Admittedly, the final text added the requirement that the fuzz must prove an intention of stirring up hatred... but thanks to Brown you could get 50 days in the slammer while they think something up over a bacon sarnie and a cup of tea.

Well have fun, and don't drop the soap :o)

more info on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_and_Religious_Hatred_Act_2006

[Anonymous Coward]

Useful tool, that

A barrage of kiddy-porn requests ostensibly from the IP addresses of arsehole politicians sounds like a throughly spiffing idea.

[John Chadwick]

Personally I blame TV

Most of us who use the register know a thing or two about technology, sadly the world doesn't. Policeman are part of that world, and lets face it the reality that we get show of flawless technology on CSI, NCIS, Spooks and many others is a long way from reality.

TV tells us it always works, so we believe it, no matter who we are, so an ISP gives you a name and address based on an IP address, who are we to disagree, it came from a computer, it must be right.

[A J Stiles]

D'oh!

Oops. You know what I meant, anyway. I meant a thousand million milligrams. Or a kilogramme. One or the other, or something like.

[Anonymous Coward]

Title

"Or maybe not... if you're a UK citizen you might have carried out an offence under the Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006 which amended the Public Order Act 1986 like so:"

er, why exactly? His comments were nothing to do with race or religion!

[captain kangaroo]

Christopher Emerson

"Obviously, you're not a golfer"...

[V.Srikrishnan]

Indian viewpoint?

1. baiting shivaji isnt really going to help, but i guess you are trying to start a flame war here.

2. india has only one time zone on other reader has correctly pointed it out.

3. regarding shivaji, he is the darling of the western indian state of maharashtra, or to be more precise the hindu right wing. this is because he fought against the Mughal ruler aurangazeb and established a kingdom in Maharashtra. he is consideren as a hindu champion agains teh muslim domination at that time. so criticising him in maharashtra is asking for a hiding.

freedom of speechis not too bad in india but we are perhaps overly emotional about some personalities, depending on the region. unless you are a bengali, you dare not criticise tagore in West Bengal, and so on.....

note that my post is remarkably free of any criticism. i am using the Airtel connection... hang on, there is someon at the door....

[Glen Turner]

Grass not greener on other side of world

>>Aside, my vote goes to Oz thats pretty free.. (now do I mean down under or down the yellow brick road?)

Then you obviously haven't heard of Mohamed Haneef, an Indian doctor working in Australia. Unfortunately for him, he gave an old phone to a second cousin. That far relative was one of the Glasgow airport bombers. Haneef was arrested, and held without charge. For the first 11 days he was not permitted to communicate with the outside world. In legislation worthy of Stalin, his wife could have been arrested if she stated that she feared Haneef was held by the police. After 25 days Haneef finally made it to a magistrate, who laughed at the "evidence" and released him. Astonishingly all of the evidence, which the police described in the darkest terms in media releases whilst holding Haneef, turned out to be paper-thin or old-fashioned blatantly-untrue "verballing".

Our lad didn't get to leave the courtroom to enjoy his freedom. As pre-arranged between Immigration and the police, Haneef was re-arrested as the Immigration Minister had seconds-previously determined he was unfit to hold a visa and Haneef had not yet left the country. Given the choice of being deported to India or solitary confinement for the months of legal proceedings whilst the visa removal was argued in court, Haneef chose deportation and freedom in India.

Classic Orwellian quote from the Immigration Minister: "...that he wanted to get out of Australia as soon as possible. If anything that rather heightens, rather than lessens, my suspicions."

Australia now has a lot of difficulty recruiting professionals from overseas on working visas. I wonder why?

[D. M]

Try aussi, this guy will be held forever

under our "new" law, this poor guy will be secretly locked-up for as long as it takes (aka, forever or unless his death), and report/known his detention will be a crime. So if you read this news, and if this guy was in our "great" country, you are also breaking the law.

Consider yourself lucky.

[D. M]

small correction

@Glen Turner

Just small correction. First, he didn't give an old phone, but an old SIM card to his second cousin YEARS ago while he was NOT in Australia. His second cousin, is not bomber, only a suspect.

Also worth notice is police made number of F*ck up, and Immigration minister just keeps trying to show selective so called "evidence", in order to justify his action. And to date, the so called "real stuff" are just non existing.

By the way, you do know that under the same law he was arrested, we already broke the law by speaking the poor guy was arrested by police.

Welcome to Australia, *we* will happily lock you up.

[Rex Chapman]

Diebold

If you want true free speech just use one of them new fangled voting machines. They're hack proof and have paper receipts...well ok no paper receipts but they are unhackable..ah wait..ok so they're hackable but it has never been proven that any political group in the USA would do that..except in 2004 and 2006...hmmm

Anyone in Norway looking for IT support?