Security minister defends ID cards, longer detention

The Liberal Democrat party has attacked the proposed National ID card scheme, on the grounds that the government cannot effectively implement simpler plans such as passport interviews. But the new government security minister has mounted a spirited defence. "The Government has made a total mess of introducing interviews for …

[Ferry Boat]

Dentist Waiting Room

I think courtmarshalled is ok. I seem to remember it from a long workplace discussion on the plural of the term.

Why do people think that ID cards will stop terrorism?

Plod: I say young man, is that a bomb?

Young Man: Oh no officer and here is my ID card to prove it.

Boom!

Giga-terror bits. A new Reg standard measurement?

Why do people think ID cards are a good idea to prevent benefit fraud? Benefit fraud is measured in millions. An ID card scheme is measured in billions.

Anyway, they'll get Crapita to do it so it will never work.

[Steven Dick]

Please, No!

Please, tell me you're making up the "giga-terror bits" quote. It's depressing when we have people talking about stuff that is completely outside their knowledge and experience and then trying to guide policy and laws based on it.

Where do we get these morons?

[John A Blackley]

I'm Thankful

I'm thankful for small mercies. In particular, I'm thankful that my government is inept - seeming to be composed of a bunch of jolly boys who play with the lives of British citizens in the way that large, clumsy boys play with toy soldiers.

Given the government's record on immigration (Just how many have we let in? Oh, I don't know, really.), law and order (What do you mean we can't deport foreign criminals? Oh that Human Rights thingy? We signed up for that?) and all of their other duties in protecting the welfare of British citizens just think what a state Britain would be in if it were administered by professionals!

[D]

It's all worthwhile now.

Despite being utterly and bitterly opposed to Id cards and the accrual of biometrics by the state, I'm prepared to accept any and all the government has to offer if they can keep up a supply of terms such as 'the sort of giga-terror bits of information that need to be looked at.'

It's like the Day Today and Brasseye never happened ... .. .

C.

[Mark]

Well, he would say that

After all, if this is all unnecessary, he's out of a job.

[Alistair Wall]

pedantry

Did he actually say "giga-terror" , "giga/tera" or "giga ... tera"?

[Stephane Mabille]

15 years?

"Lord West is on record as believing that the UK faces a 15-year war against terrorism"

And then what? Terrorists will magically transform and distribute flowers? We will all be living in fluffy bunnies land?

Or by then the military boffins will have "remote mind control" and all resistance will be futile ("All your brain are belong to us")?

[Richard]

How will these ID cards help?

Seriously - absolutely nobody has yet given a single reason or methodology whereby ID cards will help in any counter-terrorism efforts whatsoever.

In fact, nobody has yet to give a single convincing argument about how such cards will assist anybody in any activity they need to undertake.

Mr Labour, please enlighten the populace as to what exactly these cards are intended to acheive.

If nothing else, when the project is several years late and 200% over budget, you'll be able to point to these uses and explain why even more time, money, privacy and liberty needs to be sacrificed.

[John Mangan]

That can't be right . . . can it?

Surely the noun is 'court martial' so there can be no past tense? Can you be 'footballed' or 'pizza-ed'?

Surely there is a grammarian in the house!!

[Anonymous Coward]

This hasn't been thought through, has it?

The government minister said regarding biometric passports/ID cards "...that will help without a doubt in being able to pin down the terrorist movement and who terrorists are."

So under the section entitled "Profession:" are they supposed to write down "Terrorist"? Yeah, that'll work. Or perhaps terrorist's biometric data is different from normal peoples?

What the government have never explained is exactly HOW it will help them track or identify potential terrorists. Perhaps they're still working on that one.

[Fred]

@Richard

When we have blown the innocent suspect's head off with dum dum bullets, it will make it much easier to identify the corpse.

;D

Fred

[Anonymous Coward]

I am surprised

"The service was supposed to have been up and running by "late 2006", but in fact interviews did not commence until the following May"

That seems very good for a government project. I was expecting a delay of five years cost overrun of a hundred and fifty million pounds. Compared to the child support agency, the assets recovery agency, the Eurofighter, the Scottish parliament etc it's a rip-roaring success.

I choose Paris Hilton as my avator. She has gone down on many ships.

[Natalie Gritpants]

Baron Spithead!

Is it panto season already?

[Anonymous Coward]

Common script?

All these security/terrorism related ministers seem to reading from the same old script. Even after all these years, the government still can't explain just how all the amazing benefits that are claimed can actually arise from the introduction of ID cards, two month detention without trial, fingerprinting 10 year olds and all the other Big Brother actions taken in the past six years.

For all the street cameras we see, are the city streets any safer? Who wouldn't rather see a beat copper on a dark corner than a camera?

[Anonymous Coward]

@Ferry Boat

>I think courtmarshalled is ok. I seem to remember it from a

>long workplace discussion on the plural of the term.

Oh dear god!

>* Sub's note - if you think it should be "court-martialled"

Yes, I do think and it should. Incidentally the plural is courts-martial.

>Mr Page, however, wants none of it.

Quite right. He's a journalist, he can't be expected to know military terms.

(The war is not yet lost)

[Julian Bond]

TerrorBits

I see PC World is now selling a 1 TerrorByte 3.5" disk drive in a plain brown cardboard box. Should I be worried?

[Billy Goat Gruff]

@How will these ID cards help?

No no no, you're still assuming that they need to justify anything to you.

We joined Bush's war because we wanted to topple the evil dictator and implement democracy with a longterm plan. Don't you remember? The justification before, during and after can change no matter how disastrous the results.

We know there is no reason for ID cards that benefits us. I can see some reasons why HMRC and councils would love information, and the ability to market it to selected organisations... but I really can't see why they are pushing it so much. Surely HMRC has got better methods of wasting billions, god knows the council are creative enough, so why is it so important. Does it really just come down to one huge gravy train?

[Brutus]

@JonB

Actually, Mr Lewis should be expected to know, for, prior to his enrolment in the scribbling classes, he was a navy diver and bomb-disposal expert.

[Anonymous Coward]

Being sunk

Wasn't it more traditional for the captain to go down with his ship?

[BitTwister]

Pah

> "actually, in terms of counter-terrorism, they will be extremely useful."

Actually, that's just a load of crap.

> "Let's face it, 28 days is a long time. But we needed that... "

What is it about "our" suspected turrists that they need a longer grilling than anywhere else?

[Anonymous Coward]

re: Please, No!

"Please, tell me you're making up the "giga-terror bits" quote. It's depressing when we have people talking about stuff that is completely outside their knowledge and experience and then trying to guide policy and laws based on it.

Where do we get these morons?"

You Brits get them from Nobility, and Lordships.

We Americans get them from inbreeding, and moonshine.

I'll take the sex and booze any day, but that's my .02 pesos.

[Rich]

Lordships

Can I translate for you yanks:

It's a requirement of the UK's unwritten constitution that any minister (~= cabinet member) is a member of one of the houses of parliament (= congress or senate).

When the government decides (stupidly) to appoint someone from outside politics (Like Adm West) as a minister, they usually make them a Lord, giving them a seat in the (appointed) House of Lords (~= senate). The alternative would be that they would need to persuade an existing MP (=congressman) to retire and their electorate to vote for the new guy in a by-election.

Hence Lord West wasn't born a Lord, he got made one so he could be a minister. These parachuted ministers are usually disastrous, as they haven't done the usual apprenticeship in the lower ranks of politics to learn their trade.

[Rich]

Court-Martial

It's "martial" as in military, not "marshal" as in general.

[Aubry Thonon]

Court Martial?

"Sub's note - if you think it should be "court-martialled", "court martialled" or "caught/marshalled", we'd love to hear from you. Mr Page, however, wants none of it"

The term "Court Martial" comes from the French "Court Martialle". This is an unfortunate circumstance where the words involved are so close to English, they have been "corrupted" into the English spelling while retaining their French position (adjectives after the noun rather than before); they *should* have become "Martial Court" in English.

Which means that if you have been subjected to one of the above, by the (rather loose and flexible) rules of English 'verbification' you would have been "Courted Martial"; the *noun* becoming the verb, rather than the adjective doing so.

Yeah, yeah, I know... pedantic am I. ^_^

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't get it

Why was he courting the marshal's daughter anyway?

[Shakje]

@John A. Blackley

You probably don't know how many we've 'let in' because you haven't specified what type of immigration floats your boat. Illegal, legal, asylum? Illegal's a problem, but nothing that our country can't cope with, legal is a non-issue, and asylum is far worse for asylum seekers than for the UK. If you really want to believe the paranoia peddling in certain papers maybe you should apply for Italian citizenship.

[Anonymous Coward]

More Martial Pedantry

Sadly not all nouns can be verbed, at least not elegantly. What about "Tried by court martial"?

[Colin Jackson]

Aargh!

How come when some fuckwit from the ministry says things like "ID cards will be very useful in combating terrorism", none of you bone-idle journos ask them "How, exactly?" They seem to be able to get away with talking any old bullshit completely unchallenged!

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Court Martial?

>you would have been "Courted Martial"

>What about "Tried by court martial"?

I would agree, but dictionaries claim "court-martialled"

Merriam-Webster

Main Entry: court–martial

Function: transitive verb

Inflected Form(s): –mar·tialed also –mar·tialled; –mar·tial·ing also –mar·tial·ling

Function: noun

Inflected Form(s): plural courts–martial also court–martials

I think the "also court–martials" reflects the american origins of that dictionary.

I bet the sub-ed's regretting that little aside now.

@Brutus

I knew I should've used the joke alert.

[Lewis Page]

Mr Page

Was until 2004 Lieutenant* Page, RN

And was court martialled back in the '90s. For being drunk on shore, as it happens. Very painful, I can't remember the details. Nor can I recall the rules of grammar surrounding such capers - which is why I told that saucy sub to deal with the matter herself.

I propose to keep on saying court martial or whatever, and letting you chaps fight it out with the subs. They love nothing better.

*Another silly Frenchy style word which us Brits got wrong and the Yanks, oddly, got nearly right