Lawsuit claims sex-discrimination, bias at EMC

A sex-discrimination lawsuit by two former female EMC employees alleges "locker-room" antics within the firm's sales team in Chicago, detailing company-paid visits to strip clubs, demeaning sexual remarks, and a general failing to hire and promote women. The charges, publicized yesterday by The Wall Street Journal, were filed …

[Steve Roper]

Such evil men...

I find it ironic when women complain about humorous ribaldry in the workplace, considering that "GSOH" seems to be a mandatory requirement when they're seeking men in dating sites and classifieds. Or is that only their boyfriends are allowed to be funny, and all other men must treat them as princesses? If women want to work with men, they must be prepared to accept them as they are and stop being so damned judgmental all the time. Men are sexual beings, as are women, so why all this systematic condemnation of any expression of male sexuality? Why is it that male sexuality is seen as coarse and disgusting while women can wear low-cut tops and miniskirts in the office - and no man is allowed to comment, or even look? These feminist double standards have made most workplaces like prisons as far as men are concerned - you have to watch where you look, what you say, and be constantly on your guard against behaving like anything other than a robot.

Thankfully, I work in a small company (<10 staff) of which only two are women. That's not because we are discriminatory; it's just that we've had very few women apply for the jobs we advertise (mostly IT and publishing related). The two women we do have are our accounts manager, and a proofreader/reviewer. The proofreader is somewhat straight-laced and we leave her alone - luckily she works out of the office and isn't subjected to the general friendly ribaldry that prevails here. Our accounts manager OTOH fortunately has a great sense of humour and the wit to give as good as she gets. Yes, I believe we have the world's only accountant with a coarse sense of humour!

Which is why I'd much rather work for less here than have a high-paying job in some corporate workplace where I'd have to live in constant fear of offending some feminist's PC sensibilities.

/dons asbestos suit...

[Gregor Kronenberger]

When are men going to sue for sexual discrimination?

Just curious, when are males going to sue over the ridiculous sexual discrimination that goes one everywhere? When applying to engineering school, the discrimination against men is ridiculous. Most women that apply get in, maybe a scholarship to boot, but guys must actually have some decent grades...

[Anonymous Coward]

Accountant's

"Yes, I believe we have the world's only accountant with a coarse sense of humour!"

Wana bet? I have worked in accounts in the past, and my wife is an accountant. They are some of the hardest drinking, swaring and smoking bunch I have ever worked with. Infact, where I worked we were in the same office as IT, and we were the only people who would be out with them most lunches at the pub.

[Anonymous Coward]

Such evil men ....

Na, just your usual nob ends waving their cocks around... Its not big, and its not clever.

[Alex]

damn titles

all i want to say is +1 to the first poster. kthxbai

/pass another one of those suits.

[Tim]

How come we never have women commenting the reg???

I would definitely like to see a female reg readers opinion to this.

[Graham Bartlett]

@Steve

It's not so much the male sexuality, it's the assumption that the woman should share in it.

For most heterosexual men, it's actually quite easy to put yourself in the woman's position if you rethink it in a straight/gay context. How happy would you be as a straight guy if you'd had your pay docked because you didn't want to spend a night out at a gay club featuring male strippers, for example? Or if the guy across from you was making comments about how much he wanted your arse?

Jokes in general are fine (assuming people have a sense of humour), but when it gets personal then that's stepping over the line.

[Ash]

@Alex

This ain't Uber, bub.

If I start on this one, i'll get fired.

Shame.

[Tim Bergel]

Such evil men ...

Steve Roper wrote:

"I find it ironic when women complain about humorous ribaldry in the workplace, considering that "GSOH" seems to be a mandatory requirement when they're seeking men in dating sites and classifieds"

Steve, GSOH stands for **Good** Sense of Humour, not the sort of ribald, unpleasant crap that appears to have been going down at EMC.

But the fact that you can call that "humorous ribaldry" probably means that you Will Never Get It.

[Anonymous Coward]

Perks of the job?!

Quote from the complaint: "EMC regularly denies female employees perks that would assist them in developing client relationships."

Perhaps they should use their own natural perks a bit more effectively then?!

[John A Blackley]

Unfortunate

Women have a right to live their lives and go about their business without unwanted molestation or insult. They have a right to do so while dressed within the bounds of acceptability in their societies.

All of that is unfortunate for those who - mentally - still drag their knuckles on the ground and whose approach to females involves a club. No, women are not 'asking for it' if they're attractive and dress to makes themselves feel good. No, women are not required to participate in or tolerate the stale, testerone-driven, knob-oriented guff that passes for 'kulchur' in too many, previously male-dominated workplaces. It's called social evolution and, like all evolution, it has its casualites.

[David J. Howe]

EMC

There was a Fortune magazine article published in the late '90's that discussed EMC preference for hiring ex-college jocks for their sales force and the pep rally atmosphere that resulted from this....

[Tania]

Thanks Guys

Thanks Graham, Tim and John.

I think you covered just about most things there.

Though I really wouldn't give roper the time of day if I were you (many of us don't)

While he'll undoubtedly disagree that his behaviour is such, I believe that trolls should be ignored.

[Mike]

Sexism

Steve Roper you give me the impression are a sexist, you seem unable to work with women unless they are "blokey" and can "give as good as they get", also the fact that you seem unwilling to pursue a financially rewarding career because you are scared of the leagues of feminists out to get you means that you are not only losing out in cash terms but pyscologically stunting any possible development as a person.

Gregor Kronenberger, I agree, so-called positive discrimination does happen, I've seen less able women get jobs they can't handle, but if you want to fix it rather than just winge about it, spend 50% of your time complaining about it and 50% defending womens rights, you do not have a right to complain against male sexism unless you also condem female sexism.

[Pam Kelsay]

@Graham

Great point there, Graham, and one could just as easily change that to a racial example for those that harbor such strong gender issues as Roper here.

[Mike]

Re: Thanks Guys

Tania,

Great to see you post, but please can you avoid the wishy-washy gratitude to men that are just stating facts (although to be fair to John, very well put).

"While he'll undoubtedly disagree that his behaviour is such, I believe that trolls should be ignored."

"Trolls like that" are typically like that because their parents have not taught them about equality, they are real people (they can think and have desires and feelings) but they need to be educated, if you ignore them, they don't get fixed, everybody has a responsibility (and that includes you) to point out their defects so they can think about them and hopefully change.

Womens liberation has stopped because of this "ignore them" attitude, you must "give them the time of day" and do your bit to educate them, otherwise you are just as much to blame by excluding a sector of society from developing.