Holy Crap...
Japans top ninja's vs Chinas Shaolin Monks WWF style melee'. It would be like reality mortal combat. Id would pay good money to see that. Someone set it up.
Kung fu monks battle gobby net ninja
Monks at China's Shaolin Temple are vociferously demanding an apology from an anonymous Japanese internet user who suggested that a single ninja had once whupped the asses of the kung fu masters at the martial art's spiritual home. Specifically, "Five Minutes Every Day" last week posted a comment in an online forum claiming …
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Friday 31st August 2007 12:55 GMT Jason "Foxdie" Gaunt
Fighting for ones honour...
I'm not normally one for violence, nor for pay-per-view TV events (who the hell needs it these days when you have youtube and various other methods of getting things without paying? *winks*) but for an event like this I would quite happily shell out anything up to 50 quid to watch!
So many television programs try to depict people defending their honour or families honour but because naturally its on television you always take it with a pinch of salt even if it says its reality TV, but I feel a televised event like this hits the nail on the head for both entertainment and standing up for ones beliefs.
Although we try to move past it, violence and anger is in our nature, I say give people a legal way to settle their differences that can't be settled with words with nothing but their own person in a controlled environment. No guns, no weapons period, just what you were born with, THAT is honourable fighting, not being a coward by stabbing or shooting someone.
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Friday 31st August 2007 13:23 GMT Brian Miller
Miyamoto Musashi...
Miyamoto Musashi is the zenith of all fighting men. He was independant of thought, self taught and incredibly intelligent.
read a little about the history of this true warrior before chanting your chuck schmuck.
The shaolin and ninja are so far removed in skills that they cannot really be compared. Shaolin would destroy ninjas in a face to face empty handed brawl. However ninjas simply wouldn't not use weapons. They are masters of manipulation and stealth.
Both have huge commitment to there training and conditioning, but back in the day I would say that the ninja would kill off any they targeted, probably leaving no trace. But if it came to fisticuffs shaolin would likely mop the floor. If either decided to go after Miyamoto Musashi they would die at the end of his bokken
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Friday 31st August 2007 14:57 GMT Shaun Vizer
Classic!
The whole Chinese nation should be offended? superb bring back the golden days of Japan vs. China over a spate from an internet troll! just brillant.
Not sure if they would be able to send the invite for the fight to the top ninja though am sure he probbarbly doesn't have a post-box...
You never know the ninja's may just pop around to the nearest Shaolin temple and give them a thumping but they better not cross the pirates...
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Friday 31st August 2007 15:35 GMT Anonymous Coward
Hardest man alive?!?!
Steven Segal?!?! I think Chuck Norris would certainly have something to say about that!
Besides, I thought that the Shaolin developed thier sytles as a form of excercise self defense when travelling with thier teachings - hardly about to pick a fight with a stranger wandering into the temple.
I do like your suggestion of a last man standing battle royale to settle it!
If the Shaolin won, plenty of cash for maintaining thier temple, if the ninja won, they can buy plenty more sneaky-kit!
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Friday 31st August 2007 15:35 GMT Robert Hollis
Monks with to much time on thier hands
It's pretty pitiful that the monks got their robes in a wad over some Internet troll. As for who would win, I can state some things pretty clearly. In professional fighting, there are weight classes for a reason – in a fight between two skilled, in shape opponents – a guy who outweighs the other by 100lb will win every time. From the UFC, we have learned that wrestling/submission holds are critical – people who don't use them get them used against them (ironically, neither monks nor 'ninjas' wrestle). Lesson? Don't mess with big guys who can fight.
As for the use of weapons – Musashi (a big guy by all accounts) was credited with winning over 60 duels (many non fatal, because he used a boken). Audie Murphy (a tiny guy) had over 240 confirmed enemy kills, plus 6 tanks – all before he turned 21. Lesson? Gun beats a sword – every time.
Of course, we all know Chuck Norris once beat an entire Shaolin Temple and a flock of Ninjas, using only harsh language and his left pinky.......
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Friday 31st August 2007 15:35 GMT Clark Campbell
Deary dear
I can't believe this news item got anywhere. Martial arts equivalent of "my dad's tougher than yours"
@Alex Cooksey et al wanting a celeb deathmatch. Dr Hatsumi is in his late 70s, and I'm guessing the top Shaolin monk is knocking on a bit. Sure, they'll both be in not bad form, but come on - if I want to watch a couple of geriatrics fight, I'll go down my local grannyfarm and throw £50 SAGA holiday voucher in the middle of the zimmers.
@Brian Miller - Musashi was without doubt one of the most talented budoka ever, and Go Rin No Sho is a classic (much better than Art of War IMHO, and thankfully never quoted on SciFi progs!). More than a few scholars have thought Musashi might even have *been* a ninja ;) For the surmise that shaolin would beat ninja in 1 on 1, hmmm....bit like saying America would always win a land war given it's up front power. And you obviously have a comic book idea of ninjutsu re: weapons etc. Try re-reading Musashi, regarding using an enemy's strength against him (classic tai-jutsu).
I can't believe I actually commented on this, but I never thought I'd see the Shaolin Temple or any serious martial artist fall for such juvenile drivel.
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Friday 31st August 2007 17:00 GMT laird cummings
*sigh*
This old chest-thumping argument again.
*rolls eyes*
On any given day, no matter who you are, no matter how good you are, there's *always* someone better.
Ninja v. Monk. v. Samurai v. whomever... Someone will will, and someone will not. And no one here knows who that would be.
Except Chuck, of course. Chuck knows all.
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Friday 31st August 2007 17:28 GMT Dave Morris
I know who will win
Reading through the comments as well as the article, so many groups and individuals have been posited as the hypothetical winner of some sort of ultimate showdown. Honestly, though I already know who would win; I have seen the video.
Watch and you will be amazed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B85NYFFidIg
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Friday 31st August 2007 18:03 GMT Anonymous Coward
Hmm...
Shi Yongxin is the top man in Shaolin, as he is the abbot of the Temple.
Hatsumi Masaaki is as close to being the top man you could get in Ninjutsu.
I'd say it would be an interesting fight between those two. Both, as far as I know, are still very active in their art. It would be an interesting match.
Oh, and either one of them would mow Segal down. No contest.
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Friday 31st August 2007 19:39 GMT Andrew Tyler
Mixed Martial Arts
I've seen that on TV. It consists entirely of half-naked, sweaty men rolling around on the ground in vaguely erotic positions occasionally slapping at one another. It's quite a display of skill.
What percentage of computer nerds do you think own some sort of samurai sword or nunchucks? It's some sort of a trend I think.
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Monday 3rd September 2007 14:09 GMT Anonymous Coward
Hah...
Most oriental martial-arts arn't actually all that nasty anymore anyway - too civilised... The stuff my (ex) girlfriend teaches, is a lot nastier - she could probably take them all on for breakfast - let alone her boss/instructor. (She teaches her own version of Pencak Silat if you must know - and definitely military orientated).
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Monday 3rd September 2007 15:17 GMT Anonymous Coward
Hmmmm, ninja you say?
So let me get this right, a ninja, that would be the dudes in the black pyjamas, walked openly into a monk temple and 'asked for a fight', and then bragged about it?
I think said Jap dude is one of two things...
1. King Troll, if this is the case, not that I like trolls on general principle, but you gota admit its a good one.
2. The chap has watched to much Naruto, where the Ninja run around in orange boiler suits. ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQNxHKMExpk&mode=related&search= ) if you must watch it.
Would I want to watch a real martial arts fight? yes, however it is my understanding that most martial arts are lethal so you would never see them really going at it as they would disable or cripple one or other.
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Monday 3rd September 2007 20:17 GMT Chris Goodchild
Miyamoto Musashi
The above mentioned Miyamoto Musashi was a ronin as mentioned since he was a samurai without a master, He did fight with two swords, one a katana and the other his `companion´sword known as a wakizashi which was shorter.
As far as ninja are concerned, only in recent times do they have any degree of respectability as originally they were assassins and spies. They achieved most things through stealth and trickery, used poisons and even women for assassinations. Not something considered honourable in Japanese society. They were however extremely good at what they did and very professional. Also innovative in their approach, something the samurai were not, as everything the samurai did was based on pretty rigid traditions.
The Shaolin although trained in most weapons tended to fight unarmed or with the staff ( bo ) .
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Friday 7th September 2007 07:43 GMT Anonymous Coward
Sounds like a crock...
This story stinks. I cannot believe that any martial artist would rise to the bait of an anonymous poster. The idea that they'd resort to having a lawyer speak for them about it is beyond credence.
The martial artists at a place like Shaolin Temple are trained in both the physical and the mental/emotional/spiritual aspects of handling conflict. I don't know whether the Buddhist precepts are taught now (the Chinese government is unsympathetic towards many spiritual pursuits), but certainly the mental training accompanies the physical. These people are just not going to get all riled up over an insult from some unknown person.
This sort of claim must arise almost daily. There is already an intense rivalry between many different fighting systems; compounding this is the antagonism between Chinese and Japanese culture in general. Insults abound and must be published constantly. One single claim, about a supposed historic event, isn't going to ruffle anyone's feathers at Shaolin Temple.
This is the sort of thing that would only seem noteworthy to someone who doesn't understand much about martial arts. It's kind of like getting riled up because of someone (anonymously) claiming that "my grandpa kicked your grandpa's butt".
It's foolish to say that any fighting style is "better". It's the fighters who are "better". Remember that the traditional fighting styles weren't academic studies or theoretical notions. They weren't sports or high-impact aerobics. Your life depending on learning what works. Things that didn't work tended to get people killed, kind of like natural selection.
Different fighting styles suit different types of people better. Someone who is naturally well-suited for Shaolin might be a poor fighter if he were to learn ninjitsu (and vice versa). So a near-sighted guy would do better with dim mak; a tall, wiry person might be better at Northern Shaolin. Someone who was hard and muscular might excel at karate. And so on.
I don't know whether the story about the ninja has any basis in fact. I seriously doubt the validity of the story about Shaolin Temple hiring a lawyer to voice objections about the story. It's just not that important, really.
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Biting the hand that feeds IT
