I don't know about anyone else
But I'd prefer a business partner that spends so much time focussing on his work that (s)he doesn't have time to go to the gym rather than one that's more worried about how they look
A brief summation of Google's new privacy policies. One: Your search data will be made anonymous after it sits on the company's servers for 18 months. Two: Your Google browser cookies will expire if you don't visit the site for two years. And three: a man should not be allowed to hide his "shrinking shoulders" and "protruding …
That's exactly the mentality that has brought global commerce to it's present (sad??) state. People are too concerned about "work" and not about truly important things (like health). Any exec more concerned with his business than his health is certainly not going to put much value on any relationship/partnership he has with you/your company.
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Of course not! Ozzie bin Laden wears ultra-reactionary Muslim robes, and a French bistro tablecloth on his head, and yet he's the CEO of a world-girdling terrorist organization which has G. W. Bush soiling his diaper.
Proof that you don't need a suit and tie to exercise supreme executive power!
But what if it was a REALLY funny t-shirt?
My boss loves mine, we have a dress down policy but everyone knows when I walk into there office I'm from the IT department - mainly because most of my "work clothes" come from thinkgeek.com or errorware.
Nothing says "Hi, I'm the nerd who's here to fix your computer" than a memory dump on a blue t.
Though Fridays usually get the "No, I will not fix your computer" (i tell the boss it's for irony) or the RFTM in binary =D
Had him spit out his coffee the other day with a Cookie Monster dicing cookies up with a credit card and dilated pupils one - fortunately he missed my shirt - and his laptop...
...the one who has the higher price or the lower quality is already at a disadvantage. I've run businesses for years, and the one thing that I've learned is that when it comes to vendors, it doesn't matter squat what they look like. The beginning, middle, and end of what matters is how well they do the job.
Any moron can put on a suit. Not any moron can do the job well.
min two piece suit and Tie for formal customer/supplier meetings unless customer policy is to not wear a tie, even so default to a tie at the start, remove after asking, 9/10 they will say yes, but alway's polite to ask, if you have a fantastic raport with your contact you will rarley have to ask.
Normal office work, shirt and trousers, Jacket optional and every friday dress down day.
For some people First impressions still count, and these people do not always wear a sign that's advises so!!! Play it safe.
C'mon, it's no miracle: a fit mind lives in a fit body. A sluggish body often has a sluggish mind. I'd much rather do business with someone who's come from the gym than someone who's just spent two hours feeding his gut. The only problem is that there are so many suits whose egos might be offended by someone physically and mentally sharper than them, hence the disadvantage for the T-Shirt in the corporate world...
in IT are caused by people who wear suits to work that cost more than £150. Maybe the exact figure is open to debate but the guy in the £75 pound one, and me without a tie or jacket, are here to fix things.
Imagine a receiving line with the Queen walking down asking people "and what do you do then?"
I am a developer. I write code and make computers do useful stuff.
I am a floor sweeper. I keep this place clean.
I am a data input clerk, I type stuff into a computer and make the business work.
I am an executive. I wear a suit.
But what to you do?
I wear a suit. That is what I do.
What possible reason could anyone have for wearing one
(unless you're a lawyer and it keeps the foreskin from slipping over your nose) I can't get ties really try some other bit of anachronistic bullshit
like spats or ruffed collars how about a powdered wig come on
it's one bit of male finery thats past, let it rest in peace ,let it be in it's
day.The worst part is that some people look just terrible in ties
fat guys look like their wearing a leash, short guys
look like their wearing a childs tie, in short it's only good for tall
fit men not too thin or it looks like your wearing a bib. All in all
there are so many ways to look unprofessional and untidy and
downtrodden wearing a tie it's a worse than useless conceit.
Isn't saying people are unprofessional/incompetent because they wear a suit or are fat just as pathetic as saying so if they wear t-shirts? Seems to me that Franklin and Andy are the ones with the best points here. ( Apart from dress-down days. They always strike me as a weak 'You're a person, not a resource. Honest,' ploy. :) )
What can I say? The reasons behind their HR policies are as superficial and vacuous as their company motto "Do no evil" (whatever that would mean for advertisers is beyond me).
It reminds me of a meeting that I had with "security guru" from a large router vendor. I was in a business suit, the "guru" was declaiming to his companion (the sales exec.) that anyone who worked in IT security and wore a tie or a suit was a complete moron who had no idea. Problem was that the first question we asked (whether their signed code had dates for versioning) he did not know. In fact, he had absolutely no idea.
On the other side of the coin, I have been berated by managers for being a bit scruffy and therefore having no credibility.
These sorts of comments come to one thing: those without substance put too much emphasis on form. Fleischer's comment says more about him and his inadequacies than anything else.
I honestly can't believe the facile nonsense that some companies spew out. It's just a tie for goodness sakes. It doesn't imbue the wearer with wonderful business acumen nor does it allow them to hide their physique behind it.
I've met plenty of fat executives good at their job, they know not or care not about their health but they damn well know their business. This is what I would care about ultimately if I was the Google exec. Can this person do their job the best, physical appearances and fashion sense aside?
I'm not sure putting a fat exec in a t-shirt will make him suddenly care about his physique either. I mean have the Google guys honestly never seen a fat guy in a t-shirt? Really?
"I would prefer a business partner that was competent enough to get their job done in regular working hours and still have time to lead a healthy life outside of work, which may or may not include spending time with their family, having a hobby (www.dictionary.com) or, shock horror, going to the gym."
Well, I prefer business partners that are competent and get the job done while taking business with me serious enough not to show up on my steps like they just fell out of bed or want to hang out at Flynn's videogame emporium.
I also wonder how many women you swooned on a date by looking like Dude Lebowski. "Hey hon, its my inner values that count, huh?"
Taking care of your outer appearance has something to do with common courtesy.
And all this is not to mention that with all the crap that is being spouted out at Google, I wonder what they are smoking there. "Heh, see, we don't wear neckties, we ARE the good guys". Give me an upfront IBM suit any day over a Google do-gooder.
I've never been a tidy-looking person. In a suit, I look like a man with a head transplant. To work, I wear t-shirts (generally with something stupid on them), baggy pants and trainers, and I have a pony tail. I sit coding with my headset on, rock music playing, and my feet up on the desk. Why does th MD not give a toss? Because I get the work done, and I'm good at it. And that, if you ask me, is the right attitude to have. In my line of work, my abilities are far more important than my looks, so it's good to have a boss that shares that utilitarian perspective.
I'm quite capable of putting on a shirt when the situation demands it....but it normally doesn't demand squat. I can get the work done without a tie, thanks. Besides - my department boss is just like me!
I'm going to agree with the guy that said the suit wearing people are often there to break things.
Suit and MS "qualifications" are usually an evil combination that say, "I'm here to stuff around with no clue for a few hours, break 3 things, fix 1 thing and charge you much more than you expect".
In my place the only ones that wear ties are managers and customer-facing sales - ie people who have to look professional and have some authority. On civvy Friday we still wear polo shirts, how much respect can you have for a manager in a football shirt or whatever?
Granted not everyone in a suit is competent (most aren't perhaps) but many companies simply don't want scruffy-looking employees and that's up to them.
I have met several of my friends as a consequence of wearing a tie.
The first (male) liked the picture on my tie and asked where I bought it.
The second (female) said she liked my tie and asked if it was silk, which it is. She then asked if she could stroke it.
Also, to prove that real geeks wear ties:
"Tie knots, random walks and topology" by Thomas M.A. Fink and Yong Mao, Theory of Condensed Matter group, Cavendish Laboratory, Cambridge.
Published in Physica A, vol 276 (2000) pages 109-121.
They proved that there were 85 different ways to tie a tie, including six that were previously unknown. The Institute of Physics declared this one of the top 10 physics highlights of the year.
This work also resulted in an invitation to write a book:
"The 85 Ways to Tie a Tie: The Science and Aesthetics of Tie Knots" by Thomas Fink and Yong Mao, Fourth Estate (Harper Collins), ISBN 1-841-15568-3
The "don't visit us for 2 years and your cookies will expire" is clearly a hurdle they know no one will meet. The fact that they'd propose such policy that clearly exudes bad faith and denigrates the intelligence of their users makes a very loud & clear statement about their low regard for their users. The 18-months until the data is dumped says a similar thing. That search data can be anonymized immediately and still provide almost all of the statistical marketing data they need.
I work at a finantial institution. Fortunately, we IT guys can ditch the suit & tie, though we sometimes use it when the higher-ups come to check out the place.
Truth is, I hate suits & ties, it is used to give an image of "professionalism" to distract clients from the lack of that.
"He thinks UNIX is a diaper brand! Oh, but he has a nice suit, he's gotta be good!!"
Plus, people who wear a suit 24/7 (even when they are not in work) usually have self-esteem problems and the suit makes them feel more "important". So at least in IT, I'd go for the T-shirt guy ... especially if it is one of the "I AM ROOT" ones.
I like how Google talks about their company like they don't have any fat slobs working for them. I have several fatboy friends who work for Google and are proud of their ability to wear Dorito stained t-shirts to work. While I agree, a fat slob is a fat slob if he is in a suit or tie, I wouldn't want my employees meeting potential clients wearing t-shirts that say "I'm with stupid."
On the other hand, if you're an IT troll like myself, nothing wrong with a thinkgeek shirt at work.
I don't like ties, they need to die a death. In saying that I'm one of those
'insecure' people who feel good wearing a suit. Maybe with a sweater or an open collar shirt. If it makes me better at my job it is only because it imbues me with a sense of confidence, I believe it can improve anyone's sense of confidence and that's hardly a bad thing.
When I see someone in a suit I usually get an impression of professionalism so I always wear my best suit to job interviews.
I have one grievance, if I am required to wear a suit for work, it should be paid for as an expense, that and commuting expenses. They are happy to pay for the equipment I use (phone, computer, the building etc) but not my clothes, however they specify that I have to wear a suit. Doesn't seem logical to me.
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