Apple's Safari 3: a crashing experience for non-US users

Apple's Windows version of its Safari web browser is creating havoc on localised versions of Windows. Several international users who have downloaded the beta version noticed problems with loading bookmarks. When opening or importing bookmarks, Safari crashes. It also shows error messages such as: "Safari is missing important …

[Rupert Stubbs]

It's a Beta, you whiners...

... you've never used one before?

[Gilbert Wham]

Shan't bother then...

Well, I *was* gonna try it out, but if it's b0rked, I'll wait a while.

[Daniel]

Reg broken on Safari

Hmmmm... just installed Safari for Windows to see if it's worth looking at. My first 3 web pages tried didn't render properly, including El Reg which doesn't work at all (no clickable links to the articles).

Google personalised homepage - applets broken, no AJAX headings readable.

The Register - Article hyperlinks have disappeared.

www.shutterbugs.nl - layout stuffed.

Any browser which can't deal with Google is doomed, IMHO.

Very, very, not impressed.

[Ed Motler]

No problems so far.

I don't have any of these issues so far. It's faster than Firefox and Opera but certainly not as featured. I quite like it. The Find feature is a good tool, but it can't match Firefox for clever and intuative features.

But it's not aimed at us developers is it. Apple know that the 80% of people who are stuck with the disaster that is IE 7 will start using Safari quite happy once it's bundled with the next iTunes download.

The most amusing thing is the annoyance the it seems to have caused so many El Reg commentators. Mean's Steve must have hit a nerve. :0)

[Kenny Millar]

Get a grip on reality

Get a grip. I mean really.

This is no worse than any other beta - in fact compared to a certain redmond software company, the beta-3 of Safari is positively release candidate material.

And please remember, people who join beta programmes (which is exactly what you did when you downloaded the BETA) do so to help improve the product; to find and report bugs back to the developers and to generally imporve the user experience for others.

Exactly how does hanging out dirty linen help improve anything?

If you don't expect it to crash don't download a BETA version.

If you DO download a beta - then expect it to crash! But play your part and report the issues properly, not by airing them in public.

[Kenny Millar]

Thank goodness Gilbert Wham is not going to bother.

People like Gilbert Wham obvisoulsy don't understand what a beta is.

But then again, his system seems to be faulty anyway. His keyboard seems to type 0 instead of o (See his spelling of borked). Thank goodness people like him stay away from beta releases - he'd spend his entire time moaning instead of testing.

[Ian S]

Can't wait to see the new PC vs Mac ad about this one

MAC, "I've got a blue screen of death"

PC, "Welcome to my world"

*fades to Mac logo"

[Will]

Something fishy here....

Apple usually wait until things are just right before they release a new software update (see the vista compatible version of itunes for an example). It seems very strange that they have rushed to get this out and it is full of bugs.

Ive tried it on my work XP machine and it crashes almost continually

Whats the reason for the rush apple?!

[Daniel]

@Rupert

Beta? Beta implies "Complete product, may exhibit the occasional bug or unexpected behaviour but is generally useable".

Safari for Windows doesn't work, period. It's not a Beta, or even an Alpha. I'm using US Windows XP with no language packs or other weird stuff.

Google Personalised Homepage - widgets don't work, section headers are missing, hyperlinks missing, layout stuffed.

Live Mail - generates fatal error on login ("Safari has experienced a fatal error and has to close. We apologise for the inconvenience")

El Reg - no clickable links to articles, anywhere. Site completely unuseable.

Shutterbugs.nl - layout b0rked.

Those were the first links I tried. Didn't bother with any more because any browser that can't cope with Google (and of course El Reg) has no business being on any computer of mine.

Rupert you obviously posted your comment without even trying the product; I strongly suggest you at least bother to superfically test it before making unsubstantiated whining accusations, then you'd see what all the fuss is about.

[Joel]

Acid test....

I've had a few crashing issues with Safari (notably following the Sun link to the video of the YouTube boy racer), but was pleasantly surprised to see it renders the Acid2 test of the Web Standards Project well:

http://www.webstandards.org/action/acid2/

Not sure how much I would use it, but it is always useful to have another browser in the arsenal....

[Pascal Monett]

Seems like a few development iterations are in order

Not to worry. In around five years Safari just might be worthy of the attention it seeks to garner. In the meantime, it seems it has more clunk than bling. Not a problem anyroad, people can use Firefox until Safari is fit for use.

[Peter Kay]

It's a pity beta means alpha these days

Beta=functionally complete, with bugs.

Alpha=not yet functionally complete

No proxy support. No support for the Windows way of working. It's own skinning rather than using the skin currently used in Windows. No internationalisation support. Lots of font issues (clue to Apple - some of us still use CRT, or even both CRT and TFT at the same time). Looks like alpha to me..

Apple really should have waited till the product was properly beta; this is only going to boost support for IE and Firefox.

[David Webb]

Its Beta so..

@ Rupert Stubbs

"... you've never used one before?"

Indeed, many beta's infact and the aim of Beta software is to attempt to remove the last batch of bugs that are not found in Closed Beta and can only be found by large scale testing.

@ Kenny Millar

"And please remember, people who join beta programmes (which is exactly what you did when you downloaded the BETA) do so to help improve the product; to find and report bugs back to the developers and to generally imporve the user experience for others."

Very hard to test software which is so flawed it does not work thereby removing the ability to test the software. Beta software should be almost ready for production, it should have the basics done (as in, a browser that actually lets you read web sites, surf the internet, renders content correctly and doesnt crash whilst doing basic stuff). Safari cannot manage such simple things, it should be considered Alpha not Beta, not suitable for public testing and confined to the recycle bin, for good.

[Steve]

passes the Acid2 test

Well it passes the Acid2 test like does Konquerer from which it is evolved.

WinXP SP2

http://www.webstandards.org/action/acid2

[Salith Taydan]

No Text

Found a way around that issue... enable the English US language options in Windows. They don't have to be defaulted, just enabled. Text is then finally displayed.

And Apple want to be taken seriously with cross-platform programs?

[Joze Sveticic]

Works fine on OS X ...

... but all those lovely new security holes certainly sound like fun :)

http://larholm.com/2007/06/12/safari...it-in-2-hours/

http://erratasec.blogspot.com/2007/06/niiiice.html

http://www.net-security.org/secworld.php?id=5250

[David Jones]

no GoogleTalk in Gmail

The GoogleTalk feature in Gmail doesn't seem to function, perhaps that Eric Schmidt should give back the iPhone :)

[Law]

hmm

Why bother with a beta of a basic Apple browser when firefox works and is in a better position of pushing IE out... the only think Safari on Windows will do is stretch Apple resources when they have to keep dealing with holes that need plugging because of x,y,z.

I've used Safari before (on Macs, not this beta before Kenny claims I'm a n00b for not knowing what a beta is even though I write betas for a living! (or is it noob kenny - not zero's? ) ), I have used IE before (windows), by far the most reliable and flexible is FireFox (mac/windows/linux).... not used Opera before so I wouldn't dare to comment!! :)

[Anonymous Coward]

Missing Text

Ive just got a problem with all the text missing in the menus.

bit hard to navigate when you have no idea if your clicking on options or exit

also makes it hard to get off the apple homepage if you cant see the text in the address bar.

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't work

i installed safari in a windows with regional settings for portugal, and boom... there's no text and i got unexpected quits if i click any button.

thanks for your expertise in windows applications, apple.

[Dillon Pyron]

Proxies?

Try using it with a proxy. Here in the US one of the guys loaded up Safari, add the proxy and then tried to get out. BOOM!

I'm waiting three months for the official official release. Of the official beta.

[Jared Earle]

Come on ...

It's been released just so you can test your iPhone Web2.0 apps, people. It's just a developer beta.

[Anonymous Coward]

What???

I have just looked at the reg site using Safari on WinXP. Everything is fine - links clickable etc. Not sure what the complaints above are about

[Anonymous Coward]

It works ... but ...

I never used Safari when I had a Mac, Mozilla/Firefox being much better, so *normally* there's no reason why I'd need to use it for Windows. In fact, the only reason I downloaded Safari was so that I could do various bits of testing on an app I'm developing without having to faff around on a different machine.

I haven't had the problems that a lot of people have reported (yet - I'm using XP Media Centre, which is basically XP Pro with a few added bells and whistles) but thus far I can see absolutely no compelling reason why Joe Random User would want to download Safari for Windows, much less use it on a regular basis.

I'll use it for testing, but for regular, run-of-the-mill browsing it's still Firefox or Opera (as for Law's comment that he/she has never used Opera before, I suggest they give it a try - it really is good)

[CrackedButter]

No problems here

I'm running on a PPC mac with no problems bar the first time it ran after installation, it stalled but has been fine since, no errors or complaints.

[Dale]

cryptic error messages

"Safari is missing important resources and should be reinstalled." haha, so much for Mac's not giving out cryptic error messages, sure we're not talking about the OS here but still. From the sounds of it though Safari is hardly useable, not quite beta yet and agree with the person quoted in the article that it seems more like alpha software. Beta should generally work but have hidden bugs, not bugs like "I goto a website and I can't click on the links", but then again, maybe Apple is following the Microsoft way in regarding software releases. Somehow it works for Microsoft as most of the population is willing to say "how far" when microsoft says "bend over"!

[Anonymous Coward]

Works great & much quicker than IE7

No idea what all this whining is about Safari 3 beta crashing, not rendering correctly, etc. as it works great for me (didn't even need to reboot - now that's a rarity on Windows).

I've tried many sites, including some of those people claim don't work, and have had zero problems.

Also it really is quick, especially in a side by side comparison with IE7. Only downside I can see so far is the memory overhead.

On another note, I've noticed lately that the usual snide & derogatory comments that occur when Apple launch something new are becoming just plain nasty - I think some people are getting genuinely worried...

[FatherStorm]

US version on PC a touch touched as well

God forbid you're a Graphic Designer with a lot of fonts. Safari on PC stops loading fonts after about 850 and since some of the required fonts, like Verdana and Lucida might load AFTER that, they never get loaded into Safari resulting in an application with no text buttons or text rendered in the browser window.

[David]

Bookmarks

I've just installed it on a Spanish version of XP professional. I didn't read the manual so I started to try to import my bookmarks using Bookmarks->Show all bookmarks and instantly got the "...Safari... caused a problem... ...would you like to save a dump file" message.

Uninstall is the next step I think.

[M]

It crashed when it loading...

www.apple.com/uk

Kidding you not! And I wasn't amused.

Thanks goodness for that the uninstall parts works!

[aellath]

Works great!

i've no problems yet -- but i'm not mixing and matching languages, either. i'm giddy that i finally get to use a browser that *works* on this *blinking* workstation. For all Firefox's vaunted superiority over IE, i found it so slow i was going barmy, even on XP.

[aellath]

No ads!

and boy! am i glad that those ads interspersed within the body of a page *don't show up* in Safari! i can finally read an entire article without those dogs staring at my every move.

[Anonymous Coward]

Safari 3.0 beta is very fast

I'm an Opera user (and ex-employee) and have been one (user) for 8 or so years. Currently working on a US MacBook Pro (intel) in English language and country settings for Norway.

I can't say I have run into any problems with the Safari 3.0 beta for MacOS X Tiger.

Sad to say, but Safari 3.0 beta is so much faster on most pages, with an exception of The Register. I seem to remember that Opera used to start rendering pages while loading. Now, that doesn't seem to be the case any longer. (9.2 only?)

Speed for me is much more the number of tasks I can do with a browser within a time frame. Rendering a page is just not all of it.

But, Opera, I would seriously like for you to speed up!!!!

There is no question that Mobile Opera users will surf faster than iPhone users, but speaking of desktop we are lagging fare behind.

[Burton]

Meh!

Downloaded the beta yesterday and its really nothing special... The claims to be "faster" are BS and its a memory pig... Good work apple.

[Michael Brown]

Apple have seriously shot themselves in the foot...

It's rather silly to be making comments like "it's a Beta so stop whining". A public Beta release should be generally stable enough to use normally with only the occasional small bug cropping up here and there. Safari on Windows simply doesn't work, period. I've never been able to run it for more than 30 seconds without it crashing and by the looks of it I'm not alone. A company like Apple should know that you don't release a PUBLIC beta unless it's pretty rock solid. It doesn't matter what you call it, if it's available for public download and you make a big PR song and dance about it then it better be bomb-proof because the company's reputation is on the line. Instead of enticing more Windows users to make the switch to Mac this public beta is in danger of undoing all the "halo effect" created by the iPod and iTunes.

[James Cleveland]

Re: It's a Beta, you whiners...

Yep, and it's acting like an alpha.

Tahoma, Verdana, Trebuchet MS and Times New Roman - anything in these fonts fails to show up.

[Anonymous Coward]

..and god forbid you're using a proxy

Beta it may be, but being able to log onto a proxy without crashing is pretty fundamental (windows version). Tsk Tsk. It's going nowhere near my macbook for now...

[Ian Ferguson]

Can't even load the Apple 'start' page

I've installed and run Safari in WinXP and it gets as far as... opening. Almost. There is no text displayed - and I don't mean just on the web page, I mean in the browser UI as well - no menus, title, labels, nothing. I know this web 2.0 nonsense means text is being surpassed by images and video but this is going a bit far...

[Anonymous Coward]

Not another one!

As web developers, and as users, the last thing we need is yet another browser and quirks to code for. Let us get the IE6/IE7/FF mess cleared up first, then we can spend our time going forward and building great apps.

[James Cleveland]

Halo Effect

I wouldn't say iTunes has anything of a halo effect ;] The iPod is nice, but iTunes is viewed by pretty much every community I visit as bloated, nonstandardised crap which should only be used if you can't be bothered making a winamp install and equipping it with ml_ipod.

[Ben Brandwood]

Works for me - ish

Seems to work on all sites I visit, been using it all day and can't get it to crash, only two issues I can see

1) Back button on mouse doesn't work

2) Doesn't seem to want to import my Firefox bookmarks

This is on XP SP2, on a corporate laptop.....

[Ian Ferguson]

Beta feedback

Furthermore to my previous point about no text appearing. I thought the whole point of a 'beta' was that you could provide feedback... but I can't find any information on the Apple website about doing so. It's possible that the Safari application has links to do so, but without it rendering text in the menus, I can't find out. If somebody is kind enough could they take a look for a feedback email address or something I can whine at?

While on the matter of betas, I think Apple have fallen foul of public perception of the word; so many businesses release nearly-perfect 'betas' nowadays (I'm looking at you, Google) that the perception of beta and live have merged. When somebody releases an actual beta, ie. an unfinished product, they get ripped to shreds for daring to release a product with bugs in.

[Anonymous Coward]

works ok here

I have been using the thing on XP since early this morning.

It's not as complete as firefox but it's quick hasn't crashed at all and worked flawlessly so far.

The only problem site I ve seen is my company intranet which anyway only works with IE6..duh

bye

[Anonymous Coward]

Final???

I got Leopard and Safari at WWDC, and could not be more disappointed -- this is a final beta? Instailling "optional programs" crashes, Printing crashes just about everything, although Preview actually prints before dying, Safari can't get to gmail half the time, and saves attachments in gmail to really weird places. Performance is very bad (perhaps due to eye candy overhead). This is a "final beta"???? So, the people in non-US country should not feel bad, we were all screwed.

[Chris]

Fools Gold

I've ran viruses that caused less problems. The piece of junk basically starts up, stops loading and slowly fills the pc's memory until it crashes.

Yey.

I wonder how true the rendering on this will be to the mac version, because if its not close, its not worth bothering.

[daniel]

To all the Mac users of Safari...

I think this thread is about the usability of the software on Windows. Safari is a Mac tool, and I am not surprised that it works on MacOS X (intel and PPC versions).

The problems noted are on international versions of WINDOWS, so unless you have installed Windows on your PPC Mac, then I am really not surprised that you cannot reproduce these problems...

OK, so Apple got their act together and finally got a cross platform software. Now if only they could get Cross language.

Finally, several comments were about hyperlinks not working. That really, really should have been tested and fixed... I mean, Apple has national HQ's in quite a few countries, and I will not believe them if they say that noone has a copy of 2000/XP/Vista hanging around on a PC (or Mac/intel) to test with?

Bad point for Apple quality control.

Cheers,

Daniel

[Chris]

Hmm

It's alright, fonts aren't very clear... haven't had it crash yet

though, when attempting to maximise on a secondary monitor it just disappears off screen

not noticed it going any faster than firefox, that said i've turned on all the pipeline stuff anyway, so firefox literally flys.

[DrFix]

Bada Beta, bada BOOM!

C'mon people!

We've been beta testing Windows and Mac software for years. Its called their operating systems!

What other industry on the planet gets away with the things they do? Ooops! I forgot. They're called politicians.

[B Gracey]

Saddle up!

It's time to get over yourselves as IE6/IE7/FF/Opera/whatever web coders, and stick with the standards as defined by the W3C et al wherever possible. When the browser fails to live up to its basic tasks (ALL of them do to some extent) then we are no further ahead.

I enjoy using Safari on a Mac and I welcome its arrival on the Windows platform. I must use both in my daily life and I adore Safari's CSS support. Have you ever seen CSS drop shadows work on Windows? No, I thought not... with Safari they do.

Cheers, Apple. Iron out the wrinkles and let the competition heat up. It's time for standards support instead of just more gimmicks!

[sektah]

Reporting feedback

Ian Ferguson:

You can report feedback on Safari in the help menu - "Report Bugs to Apple..."

I've been giving Safari a bit of a bash on a Windows XP SP2 machine here at werk, and it seems to run OK. No crashes, pages render pretty well. There's some interface bugs, but nothing like the problems others have experienced. Lucky me.

[James]

apple.com broken

I know it's a beta, but if it were my product I'd at least want my own website (default home page by the way) to look look like it should.

In response to the proxy query, it picks up your proxy settings from internet exploiter.

[Craig McCormick]

Standards

Well said B Gracey!

I'm using this Safari Beta on WinXP Home SP2 all set up with UK English settings. No problems here. I'm usually an Opera user in Windows an Linux, use Firefox occasionally on both OS's and resort to IE7 when I am forced to, to view MS DRM'd online video content.

Not being a Safari user, I've only tested on sites that I know cause/have caused problems in IE/FF/Opera and am pleasantly surprised to see Safari cope perfectly on those sites.

I only really intend to use it to test that sites I design work the same in various browsers, which is annoying, as I prefer to keep sites XHTML Strict compliant, or transitional at the very least.

I'm not saying that Safari is great or anything. At this earlyish stage, it is no more or less good or bad, than any of the other browsers that I mention. Anything that is standards compliant is a plus. Opera, Firefox and Safari are still higher in my list of preferences than IE.

[David Bernofsky]

Does anyone else find this bizarre?

What exactly is the point in competing for market share of FREE products? Sure Apple sees the chance to slurp up some of that tasty microsoft-using-populace ad sector, but why are they doing it by trying to compete with firefox?

Wouldn't it be more effective to market this as an IE killer?

Isn't that the basis for apple's entire advertising machine? "Apple, we're not the other guy!"

[Martin]

replies...

re:"I thought the whole point of a 'beta' was that you could provide feedback... but I can't find any information on the Apple website about doing so. It's possible that the Safari application has links to do so"

Don't you see a Bug button beside the address bar?

re:"It's own skinning rather than using the skin currently used in Windows."

er, that's rich. We are talking about Windows?

re:"I never used Safari when I had a Mac, Mozilla/Firefox being much better".

Sorry, but how would you know if you never used it? Bit of an oxymoron.

Anyway, I've been using it all day. Not a problem. Have imported all my Firefox bookmarks. No problems for me. Of course there are bugs, and there are problems for some users, but it's those for whom it doesn't work that will complain the loudest, especially the Apple haters. I don't understand the Apple Rage (or the MS Rage).

And for you developers out there who haven't tried Safari before, it behaves like Firefox 99.99% of the time. IE is still the bitch.

All these negative comments. Most of them seem to be from people who can't interact properly with their keyboard. So honestly, who cares what you say if you're not going to double-check what you've written?

[Martin]

Does anyone else find this bizarre

David: The product is free, but Google and Yahoo pay Mozilla and Apple for every search that they receive through Firefox/Safari.

Mozilla got $50m in revenue from Google last year...

So, anyone interested in making a browser?

[Anonymous Coward]

It behaves like Firefox?

Mr. Martin, it behaves like an alpha that would like to pass as Firefox: Content on pages is missing, formatting gets broken, links are displayed as underscored lines, etc. In this form it should never have made been public, as these are not bugs associated with a beta.

If you don't understand the negative comments, then you probably agree with Apple's advertising Safari as "the world's best browser". The rest of us, who view Apple probably a bit more realistic, take this as the snobbish line it really is. Even a good number of Apple users prefer Firefox over Safari.

But then, on the other hand, I am lead to believe that people like you share their sense of logic with the likes of Mr. Finnie, who comes to the conclusion that a Mac is not more expensive than a PC - by not counting PCs below $600, because they don't represent "value":

http://computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9023959

At the end of the day, the majority of the world's computer users wants an affordable machine that gets the job done, while others find the prestige associated with a specific brand worth the extra money. The problem with that only arises when those feel they have to justify their decision, and maybe lack of self-confidence, by telling everyone else they are idiots for not seeing the truth.

I wonder how high the percentage of Apple users is among Wikipedia contributors.

[Anonymous Coward]

why in gods name....

would you want to use Safari anyway?

any MacOSX users know how bad it is and have sidegraded to Kamino or Firefox

and PC owners who want a 3rd party browser already have Firefox or Opera

(and I'm sure that many testers of Safari will soon go back to them and never

touch Safari again!)

Apple want to try ruling the desktop? start by fixing your own broken OS which is becoming more of a security burden each passing month.

I used to agree with the Mac crowd...OSX was nice. now the shiny veneer is peeling off leaving behind a rather crusty open sored (open sourced, geddit?) layer thats been screwed beyond belief. Apple make nice shiny gadgets, others are now writing the better things to run on them.

[Martin]

Apple Apologist (Not)

Dear anonymous,

I'm using Safari on Windows. Why am I a Mac snob? Because it hasn't crashed or not displayed content for me?

"If you don't understand the negative comments..."

I made a point of saying I did understand them, but wanted to say that it's those who are having problems that'll be the loudest, and that's fine. Submit a bug (if you can). Windows is so user-tweakable and runs on such a range of hardware that I don't automatically assume that an application is trash because it doesn't work when I install it on my PC. I see if someone's found a conflict. And I'm sure this is what's happened with people for whom Safari is not working, and that's why it's a beta. I have issues with how a lot of apps behave, on all the platforms (and devices) that I use. And I assume that my bug feedback will help the developers iron out bugs that they haven't come across. What I don't understand is the big scene everyone makes (Windows or Mac) when they have a problem. It's just opportunistic bashing, which is evidenced by the fact that they just want to publicly bash Apple or MS, and don't care if they spell like English is their fifth language. I'm willing to debate and learn, but a lot of Reg comments are naff crass that don't contribute anything to the article.

As for "the majority of the world's computer users wants an affordable machine that gets the job done"... I have to say that I believe that user interfaces have a long way to go, Windows, OS X, Unix flavours... I believe that it'll be quite a while before I would confidently give a machine to my mother and not expect support calls.

My point was only that there's a lot of OS Rage going on, and that I'm sure for a lot of people Safari is working fine (like me).

[Anonymous Coward]

IE look out

I've been using the Windows version of Safari for a couple of minutes now and the only significant issue I've found is that it doesn't render HTML, i.e. I enter an address and Safari does not render anything. Apart from that, it's great! Really makes me want to go out and buy a Mac.

[Mark Gillespie]

Faster than IE? Perhaps...

Faster than Opera, no way...

Opera is considerably faster, in page loading, rendering, and javascript it seems...

I won't be switching from Opera to Safari, as Opera renders almost everywhere I visit correctly..

[Morely Dotes]

@Daniel

'Live Mail - generates fatal error on login ("Safari has experienced a fatal error and has to close. We apologise for the inconvenience")'

Live Mail is a Microsoft property. It won't work properly at all, and it only works as designed (as opposed to "properly") with Internet Explorer.

Testing Apple beta products with Microsoft proprietary Web sites is about as sensible as expecting a Dachshund to sire pups on a black rhino. Sure, it may be amusing to watch the attempt, but it can only end in tears.

Personally, I won't be trying it until the official wide-release beta, though. I do have a life.

[Andy Barber]

Safari - Win XP

Gosh it's FAST! It's almost like a real Mac.

I'm a Brit user & it's a dream, I'll probably uninstall Firefox next week if I see no problems with Safari.

[Christopher]

I'm good with this . . .

I've used Safari 2.x on the Mac since 2005 and really like it. It is minimal and doesn't get in the way of the content. The same I find for Safari for Windows. I do find it has crashed a few times, the fonts are a wee bit bit fuzzy and the browser chrome is a touch dark, but other than that -- for a beta -- a fine start as far as I am concerned. Oh yes -- this WILL become my browser of choice on XP-Pro.

[Brian Scott]

Proxies

I tried it but it crashes. It looks like it can't handle our local proxy setup (configured through a proxy script and then authenticated with NTLM) so it crashes. The only work around seems to be to not load any web pages - not really a viable option for a web browser. You can't turn off the proxy settings (as someone pointed it it just uses IE's settings and my settings at work are locked done by group policy) so I can't even test it on local content. I think the most remarkable thing about this is the complete lack of feedback channel for me to point his out to apple. I'm happy to regard it as a beta and send back feedback but it seems odd to only want feedback from people that it works properly for.

Anyway, its obvious that this is being rushed out because it (or the webkit component) forms some key component in the new version of iTunes for Vista so they need to get most of it working on windows anyway.

[Ted]

Watch the Keynote people...

After reading over most of these comments, I have to make the point that unless you watch the Keynote, you'll not understand why Apple is doing this. So do yourself a favor and start into about 66 minutes of the Keynote and watch. All your questions (and confusion from many of you) will be answered.

http://events.apple.com.edgesuite.net/d7625zs/event/

yes, Safari is much faster than IE, about twice as fast, and 1.6 faster than FireFox, these tests are from iBench, not from Apple.

[Anonymous Coward]

Definitely not the best beta for windows

Only took me 5 minutes to crash the new Safari on Windows XP in Canada (I'm not sure being in Canada qualifies me as an international user by Apple American standards).

Best part was it crashed while trying use their bug report feature in Help.

Fonts look very weird, fat and small compared to IE , just look news.bbc.co.uk in both browsers.

Also, the colour rendering is off. Go to any art web site, such the Web Gallery of Art ( http://www.wga.hu/index1.html ) and compare the colours.

I think I'll uninstall and wait for the final version.

[fon]

to: Kenny Millar

So you dont understand Geek?? 'b0rked' IS the right spelling, indicating the mangling of code by a particular website, when it sees a browser it hates... have you never been 'pwned' ???

you can always try this.. www.opera.com/products/desktop/

Also the opera BETAs, and even some of the alphas, dont crash that much.. :)

[Andy Turner]

I think I'll just wait until they release Service Pack 1

And let all the Apple devotees do the iBeta iTesting.

[Léon]

It's a beta!

I completely agree with Kenny Millar. If you don't want things to crash, then wait for a stable version. I didn't download it, but i'm sure there's a disclaimer somewhere that states exactly this. Just because you don't have any (of these) problems with the latest Firefox beta doesn't mean .. etc etc.

[Alexander Vollmer]

Data digging, occupation, silent phone home ...

After installation found:

an active "Bonjour" service eating background time slices,

tries 6-8 times to phone home when opening a Safari window,

the "usual" problems as an alien user,

looks like adware, acts like adware, no real function yet ...

... can not trust it, cause all this is done silent without notification.

... no second try, now its a blacklisted application.

[Shaun Rowe]

It's a beta!!!!

Have you people forgotten what beta actually means? It's a testing release! I would never expect beta software to work straight out of the box on every system. Give it time, have patience.

[fon]

As holy as IE??

oh, and a nice big hole... :p

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=40283

The good thing about this?? Apple has to now realise how hard it is to get things working in windows!! :D

And all those 'MACfans' will have to shut up, for a while!!

[Mik Flood]

Doesn't work on my Mac

Just tried launching it on my eMac (PPC) 10.4.9, and it won't even open. After 3 attempts from separate downloads, I just reached for the uninstaller and reloaded Firefox.

Whether Pre-Alpha, PMT-Alpha or grunge-Beta, this baby doesn't work

[dktalon]

China? It doesn't even work for Chinese!

"Wake up, Apple. There is a world beyond US-land and China, where you manufacture everything."

Should be more like : Wake up, Apple. There is a world beyond US. And there's a land called China where you manufacture everything! At least make the Safari compatible with Chinese instead of showing blank dashes and blocks when viewing Chinese website!

[Anonymous Coward]

Steve's Little Green Apple

The more I use it the more bugs I find, makes me wonder if Steve Jobs ever tried it out on Windows before he started bragging about this flawed product. I mean I've used beta browsers before but the developers never bragged about them being the best browser in the world, secure from day one, that's why over a million idots like myself downloaded the most disappointing and most insecure browser in the world. And where's Steve Jobs now, skulking in some darkened office afraid to show his face or try to explain how he got it so wrong. I was poised to purchase a new Apple Mac but that is no longer an option, at least I know where I stand with Bill Gates which is preferable to Steve Jobs peeing on my boots and telling me it's raining.

[Anonymous Coward]

Steve's Little Green Apple

The more I use it the more bugs I find, makes me wonder if Steve Jobs ever tried it out on Windows before he started bragging about this flawed product. I mean I've used beta browsers before but the developers never bragged about them being the best browser in the world, secure from day one, that's why over a million idots like myself downloaded the most disappointing and most insecure browser in the world. And where's Steve Jobs now, skulking in some darkened office afraid to show his face or try to explain how he got it so wrong. I was poised to purchase a new Apple Mac but that is no longer an option, at least I know where I stand with Bill Gates which is preferable to Steve Jobs peeing on my boots and telling me it's raining.