God makes you stupid, researchers claim

A psychology researcher has controversially claimed that stupidity is causally linked to how likely people are to believe in God. University of Ulster professor Richard Lynn will draw the conclusion in new research due to be published in the journal Intelligence, the Times Higher Education Supplement reports. Lynn and his two …

[Ign R. Amis]

@Richard Irvine

"I would say that blanket claims that atheists have not killed religious people for their beliefs are empirically false"

Really? Are you sure they were killed for their religious beliefs, and not because their beliefs prompted them to behave in ways contrary to the whims of the bloodthirsty dictators who headed those governments?

It's pretty stupid the way pro-god types routinely trot out Stalin and Mao as evidence for the evil of atheism. There should be some equivalent of Godwin's Law for this particular bit of nonsense.

It's a stillborn argument, because their behavior had nothing to do with the belief or lack thereof in a magical man in the clouds. One need look no further than the Spanish Inquisition, or the insane actions of any given group of Islamists. These are allegedly religious people, so persuaded they have the truth they're willing to slaughter anyone who disbelieves.

No matter how reprehensible the behavior of someone who happens to be atheist, that is not an affirmative argument for the existence of a god.

[Richard Irvine]

pro-god? pro-reading some history actually

@Ign R. Amis

I now see that the use of "stupid" in this debate (on both sides) is pretty much a catch all term for people who disagree with what you say. That disagreement is pretty galling when you haven't bothered to read what I say. Just to clarify, I have never claimed that atheists being bad people makes theism true, just as I would not claim that theists being bad people makes theism false. I'd argue that whether or not god exists is independent of these factors. So I never trotted out Stalin and Mao (I didn't even mention Mao!) as evidence for the evil of atheism. I just said that we should consider that bloodthirstiness is not restricted to those among us who are religious, and that people have been killed for their religion by those who were not religious.

You make an assumption that I am pro-god. Really I'm just pro reading some history books, which make it quite clear that in the 2 specific cases I stated, religious practice (i.e. continuing to state a belief in god and to perform rituals in accordance with those beliefs) led to a leader putting them to death for their faith.

That is not an argument 'pro-god', just an argument against some of the garbled thinking that connects religion to violence without thinking about whether the factors that lead to violence would exist with or without any god-concept.

[John]

Is this a record?

A bit off topic here, but I'd like to register what I'd like to believe is a world record - the maximum difference between two genuine consecutive IQ test scores. 180 versus 90.

Yes, I was genuinely trying on both of them, and no distractions.

Yes, 90 was the second score.

Yes, I concluded that IQ tests were b**ks and never wasted my time again.

A high IQ score denotes an ability to fit in with the crowd, by thinking the same way as the question-setter. For obvious reasons, that correlates with success in modern society, and hence easy-to-measure achievement metrics. But intelligence? I think not.

[Rob Pomeroy]

Whale tales

Just a footnoot really: There have been a couple of references here to the story of Jonah which is understandably treated with some scepticism. I seemed to recall an old tale about a guy in modern times who had encountered a similar fishy situation. Turns out it's one of those urban myths which has been somewhat debunked. A pity really because it's one of those things that some Christians rely upon to shore up their faith.

In my brief online research, I found an apologetic for the story of Jonah though which is worth a read by anyone irrespective of religious persuasion, if you're interested in testing the veracity of the tale. You can catch it here: http://www.gotquestions.org/Jonah-whale.html but to save you some time, the (for me) salient paragraph reads:

"Skeptics scoff at the miracles described in the book of Jonah as if there were no mechanism by which such events could ever occur. That is their bias. We are inclined however to believe that there is One who is capable of manipulating natural phenomena in such supernatural ways. We believe that He is the Creator of the natural realm and is not therefore circumscribed by it. We call Him God and we believe that He sent Jonah to Nineveh to coerce their repentance."

Quite. No point in an atheist (or any other kind of -theist) saying "miracles can't happen". Because that's exactly the point. A miracle by definition is something that "can't happen". And yet they do seem to happen and whether we like it or not, there are masses of evidence (by which I mean first hand eye-witness accounts) that they do. If you just say that those first-handers were mistaken, mad or liars, you are simply revealing your preconceptions (in much the same way that the pre-Galileo church did).

PS @"God" I wonder why you forgot to specify what kind of aquatic creature it was, in the original texts?

[Rob Pomeroy]

Argh.

And now the spelling nazis will get me. 'Footnoot'!

Paris, for obvious reasons.

[Anonymous Coward]

To offend stupid people

I just announced the title in my office and got some a few shocked gasps (from the stupid people) as well as many stifled laughs (from the intelligent ones). What fun!

I may have to get my jacket and leave. Thank you Reg.

[Bob. Hitchen]

Atheists are thick

Anybody that thinks the Universe and all it contains is just 'happen chance' really is short of brain cells. I don't have a religion but my personal experiences have demonstrated numerous times the existence of powers infinitely greater than puny vanity driven humans. Scientists and their ilk suffer excessively from vanity pretending they can explain everything yet know very little.

[Alan Fisher]

@ Michael

My mate, i grew up with no religious background at all and have never gained one. I grew up in Northern Ireland and know all about the evils of religion. This started me on the road to eschewing organised religion; if people of the same religion can't get on...well....

I'm incredibly moral and humanist *without* any threats, yes threats, from a diety who may or may not exist. I do what is considered good and moral because that's the right thing to do, not because should I not, i will be sent for enternity to some hot place where horned ones will poke my buttocks with pitchforks! Is doing right out of fear doing right at all? Is doing right because one is told one must the same? I'm a good person but don't get santimonious about it and tell others I'm going to Heaven for it....it's just right, that simple.

Not to say I've haven't done wrong but at least I admit that my mistakes were simply that; fault of circumstances, stupidity, naivete or whatever; not some evil spiritual being who seeks to tempt me and lead me astray!

Also, at someone else, I forget who now, belief in intelligent aliens, of whom there is a great deal of documented evidence and published books, is to me, the same as belief in a deity. Lots of published evidence, faith and belief but no hard factual evidence. I do not, however, entirely dismiss the idea or possible existence of either.

To me, the above is the difference between athiest/agnostic and religious person; most of the former are prepared to accept the validity of the latter's view. The majority of the latter do no extend the same courtesy and are therefore close minded