back to article Prominent Brit law firm instructed to block Brexit Article 50 trigger

Law firm Mishcon de Reya has been instructed to launch a legal challenge to block Britain from leaving the European Union, in spite of the popular vote to leave the bloc. Solicitors and barristers from Mishcon de Reya are working with Blackstone, Matrix and Monckton Chambers to argue Article 50 of the European Union – the …

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          1. KeithR

            Re: And the house of lords?

            "Like around 75% of the population I live in a safe seat so right from the off my vote is basically worthless."

            Are you SERIOUSLY saying that an MP having a large majority is somehow a failure of democracy?

            Fecking hell...

      1. Anonymous Blowhard

        Re: And the house of lords?

        "we've been signed up to the European Court of Human Rights with no control over the majority of the laws imposed upon us"

        EU != European Court of Human Rights

        The UK signed up to the European Convention on Human Rights twenty years before we joined the European Union (before the EU existed); it owes much of its existence to Winston Churchill, and other allied leaders, who wisely concluded that Nations could not be trusted to put their citizens interests above national interests and might, when it suited, deny them basic human rights. They created the ECHR as a way of imposing oversight on would-be Hitlers, Stalins and Mussolinis.

        Seems like you want Brexit to mean it's OK to deny people their human rights; disappointed eh?

        1. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

          Re: And the house of lords?

          @Anonymous Blowhard:

          Theresa May: "I remain of the view that the Human Rights Act needs to go."

          See you in joycamp.

        2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: And the house of lords?

          "Like around 75% of the population I live in a safe seat so right from the off my vote is basically worthless."

          People keep coming up with this nonsense. In as far as a seat is safe it's only so because of the people who vote. If sufficient of you who aren't content with your MP actually go out and vote in elections you might effect a change (you don't say whether you voted or not but, assuming you did, I'm sure you realise that there will be a good many constituents who didn't "because it won't count").

          FWIW the constituency where I live has returned MPs of all three major parties in my lifetime.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: And the house of lords?

            "People keep coming up with this nonsense. In as far as a seat is safe it's only so because of the people who vote. If sufficient of you who aren't content with your MP actually go out and vote in elections you might effect a change"

            Unless, of course, your district or whatever is stuffed full of party-loyal zombies (meaning people who will vote their party even if their representative turned out to be a child-molesting goat-screwing closet Nazi). And you're too poor to move.

        3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: And the house of lords?

          "Seems like you want Brexit to mean it's OK to deny people their human rights; disappointed eh?"

          I'm sure Theresa May's working on it.

      2. jonfr

        Re: And the house of lords?

        @ nuked, The EU council is appointed by the governments of EU member states (elected) and approved by the European Parliament (elected). Since EU is not a country this is the way things are done.

        The EU Commission has limited power in suggesting legislation (since EU parliament and the Council of the EU can also make law suggestions) and legislation can only be approved by the European Parliament by a majority. Most of the EU laws come from the member states them self, the elected leaders of the member countries (depends of the ministry what laws are suggested to be made EU wide). Those legal suggestions are done in Council of the European Union.

        The only country the hold referendum on Lisbon Treaty was Ireland, due their own legal requirement on such agreements. The rest of the EU member states at the time just got parliament approval for it. It was approved after Ireland got legal opt-outs regarding some matters they considered important.

      3. Fr. Ted Crilly

        Re: And the house of lords?

        Ah yes the majority of laws...

        Presumably you mean the dull stuff, you know, about what carcinogenic substances you can/cant put in paint, what kind of plastic insulation can be used in fire detection systems, car tyre construction standards, safe(?) food additives, fire retardant qualities of soft furnishings, and on and on and on.

        cant remember a Euro law that digs into our domestic criminal law system directly, apart from that nasty Human Rights stuff about treatment of prisoners, still they cant have any need of rights can they eh.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: And the house of lords?

      Two problems with that:

      Firstly the commons can invoke the parliament act and overrule the lords.This takes a year but is possible.

      Secondly the government was elected with the referendum as part of their manifesto. By tradition (but not by law) the Lords doesn't block anything that was in the ruling parties manifesto. They can ignore that but to do so would risk their existence, you can't have an unelected house try to block something that the elected house made as a commitment in order to be elected. You could argue that the manifesto only promised a referendum, it didn't promise to act on the result but that's splitting hairs a little too thin.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: And the house of lords?

        "the government was elected with the referendum as part of their manifesto."

        The referendum as held wasn't binding. If the government treats it as it was I don't see that it would be outside the HoL's role to send it back to the house, especially given the small majority for change. This ability to impose a cooling-off period is an important one.

  1. Josco

    Vote Again and get it right this time

    This is all part of the establishment's campaign to have another referendum and get the sheeple to vote remain.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Vote Again and get it right this time

      @Josco

      "This is all part of the establishment's campaign to have another referendum and get the sheeple to vote remain."

      In that case call me Sheepy McSheepface.

      Oh, while I'm at it, as if a political party with an MP and several MEPs isn't part of the 'Establishment'. You'll be telling us to take pens to polling stations next, just in case the Establishment want to rub out your votes one X at a time.

    2. Terry 6 Silver badge

      Re: Vote Again and get it right this time

      Let me remind you that the petition was started by a Brexit campaigner pre-referendum in case his side lost by a couple of percent the other way. And that Farage was the first to suggest a second referendum if his side were to lose by a couple of percent.

      So Leave campaigners wingeing about people wanting this to this happen when the vote went the other way are being, to say the least a bit hypocritical. Especially when that small percentage majority to leave is made up of people who had been told, wrongly, that it would give millions to the NHS every week, though not that this would be a tiny proportion of the NHS budget or the loss to the economy that pays for the NHS, even if it were true. Or that we'd be able to send home lots of foreigners, whose presence they resented and still keep trading the way we used to. Or that industry would be free of "red tape" without being told what that "red tape" was or that it's largely here to protect us. Or that we'd be able to get rid of those European Human Rights, as if they weren't our human rights too.

      1. MrZoolook

        Re: Vote Again and get it right this time

        Quote: "Let me remind you that the petition was started by a Brexit campaigner pre-referendum in case his side lost by a couple of percent the other way. And that Farage was the first to suggest a second referendum if his side were to lose by a couple of percent. So Leave campaigners wingeing about people wanting this to this happen when the vote went the other way are being, to say the least a bit hypocritical."

        They are about as hypocritical as Remain campaigners who shot down any suggestion of a 2nd vote if the Remain win margin were small. The same ones that now, after losing by a few percent, seek to renege on their assertion that there should only be one vote.

        But lets brush that under the carpet, shall we? Along with the wishes of the larger majority, because... you know... democracy!

    3. KeithR

      Re: Vote Again and get it right this time

      "and get the sheeple to vote remain."

      That would be the intelligent sheeple, not the knuckle-dragging, bigoted retard sheeple that voted to leave?

  2. inmypjs Silver badge

    The pathetic whining of the few thousand remainers that managed to tear themselves away from their social media echo chambers this weekend to turn a bit of London into another echo chamber for a few hours will pale compared to full scale rioting that will ensue if politicians ignore the clearly expressed democratic will of the people.

    If article 50 needs a vote or act it will get it or there will be hell to pay.

    1. Jonathan Carlaw

      Its Hell to Pay whatever!

      The 'problem' for the politicians is that the result was close, in % terms, so it's not clear to anyone who is vaguely neutral which option will get them (or lose them) more votes next time an election turns up.

      Add in the media FUD of claims that some who voted leave did so as a protest, and it is clear that to actually do anything will require considerably more backbone than some of our supposed leaders appear to have!

      1. nigglec
        Childcatcher

        Re: Its Hell to Pay whatever!

        Agree politician being the scum they are arn't likely to be sentimental as to the result. I'll just point out though that the Welsh devolution referendum with a turnout of 50.2% and a winning margin of 50.3% to 49.7% was declared a triumph for democracy and a clear imperative to pursue the creation of a Welsh assembly. That was Tony Blair mind.....

        Icon? Well the child catcher told fewer lies than both sides!

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "the clearly expressed democratic will of the people"

      52% vs 48% isn't exactly what I'd call clear. On the contrary, it suggests to me that the populace is close to neutral on the issue. I expect a lot of further dithering from those in charge.

      1. MonkeyCee

        Well...

        "On the contrary, it suggests to me that the populace is close to neutral on the issue."

        I'm fairly sure that's not what this means. While I'm sure some in either camp are not too fussed either way, feelings are generally pretty strong on either side, even if they average out. Running the risk of being gunned down in the street if you piss of the wrong racist nutter* doesn't add to the appeal.

        So if a politician goes strongly one way or another, they can expect to piss off roughly half of their voters. Hence why Cameron and Farage quit, rather than tackle the task, and BoJo was only ever in it for PM, not for any actual work. Farage can't actually build anything, but does a fine line in pissing on things whilst managing a spot of demagoguery.

        What makes the whole mix worse is while Remain has a vague consensus on what they'd like, what "leave the EU" means to Leave voters varies a great deal. I strongly suspect when faced with what the actual deal will be, many of the Leave voters will feel betrayed, and rather than blaming the impossible lies they where sold (or where implied and suggested but totally not actually promised), the blame will fall on whoever got the short stick of negotiating.

        * I don't think Leave voters are generally more racist than Remain voters, but there are certainly racists who are using it as a smokescreen.

        1. KeithR

          Re: Well...

          " I don't think Leave voters are generally more racist than Remain voters"

          Oh, I think there's a lot of empirical evidence to suggest they are...

    3. John 110

      Frozen north

      The clearly expressed democratic will of MY people is clearly different to that of yours...

      1. MrZoolook

        Re: Frozen north

        Quote: "The clearly expressed democratic will of MY people is clearly different to that of yours..."

        You had an opportunity to change THAT state of affairs 2 years ago. Remember to take that chance next time, instead of complaining (by inference) that the rest of the UK is an impediment to you.

        1. Liz 1
          Facepalm

          Re: Frozen north

          "You had an opportunity to change THAT state of affairs 2 years ago. Remember to take that chance next time, instead of complaining (by inference) that the rest of the UK is an impediment to you."

          and at the time, WE were lied to too, and told that the only way to be sure of remaining in the EU was to stay in the UK....

    4. Rich 11 Silver badge

      full scale rioting

      At least the repair work will keep the Polish builders in a job as the country slides into recession.

    5. Hollerithevo Silver badge

      Ah, rioting

      Nothing like the threat of violence to confirm that the UK has the best form of government ever and is far superior to the talking shop that is the EU.

    6. H in The Hague Silver badge

      "If article 50 needs a vote or act it will get it or there will be hell to pay."

      Dear Inmypjs, I'm not sure which country you're from, but the UK has a parliamentary democracy. I.e. parliament is sovereign (unless it decides to give up some of that sovereignty, usually through a treaty with another country or an international organisation). That means that parliament has to take the important decisions - any other process would amount to a major constitutional change.

      Furthermore, MPs are supposed to represent the interests of their constituents, not their party or anything else. Admittedly I'm a bit hazy about the finer details of that, but it strikes me that their vote in Parliament would depend on the feelings about this matter in their constituency.

      For another take on this: in 1975 Margaret Thatcher commented "Perhaps the late Lord Attlee was right, when he said that the referendum was a device of dictators and demagogues."

      1. KeithR

        " "Perhaps the late Lord Attlee was right, when he said that the referendum was a device of dictators and demagogues.""

        Crikey - Lord Attlee knew Farage was coming, even then...

    7. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Do you feel that the Leave campaign should start ethnic cleansing of foreigners, minorities and Remain supporters?

      What next - concentration camps, civil war, death squads?

      Take a reality check.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        ....

        They've already started with gunning down MPs in the street.

    8. ToddR

      Isn't Bob Geldof meant to f**k off and rescind his knighthood the irritating irrelevance.

      I wonder if Geldof and Izzard are twins, as both say the same nonsense

    9. gnasher729 Silver badge

      <quote>If article 50 needs a vote or act it will get it or there will be hell to pay.</quote>

      Thanks for reminding us what kind of idiotic thugs have been voting "leave".

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    > If article 50 needs a vote or act it will get it or there will be hell to pay.

    Not really - as long as the act is put before parliament and passes.

    Now, if it goes before parliament and is rejected, that is another matter...

    In any case, one presumes that there will be much frantic negotiating with other countries before this button is pressed - so that we know that whatever the outcome over negotiations for access to the European single market, we will at least have some trade deals with the rest of the world in our pockets.

    (The EU have said no market access without freedom of movement, as it's a cornerstone of their political dream; but people who voted to leave apparently did so *because* of freedom of movement. That doesn't seem to leave much room for a settlement. And as for the financial services passport, that's toast too, as the EU won't be able to show anything in return. So we'd better find something else worth having).

    1. inmypjs Silver badge

      "at least have some trade deals"

      The EU (and so we) have no trade deal with China or America.

      You do not need trade deals to trade. Wish people would stop thinking/claiming you do.

      "freedom of movement, as it's a cornerstone of their political dream"

      The EU is a customs union created so industry and business in the union does not have to compete with the rest of the world. The free movement of people is there to equalise living standards and so labour costs and so prevent industry and business of member states being able to compete with each other. The blanket regulation on everything from paperboy working hours to curvature of cucumbers is there for the same reason - to ensure no member can have any competitive advantage.

      The EU is very much about non-competition which is why it is failing as the rest of the world driven by competition leaves it behind.

      1. whatevs...

        Both China and America have told the UK, in no uncertain terms that the UK will be at the back of the queue on their own, trade deals or not. Will you Brexiters at least have the decency of getting your facts absolutely straight before ranting feverishly. Also, straw-man arguments ("...paperboy working hours to curvature of cucumbers") are categorically banned. Facts only please.

        1. Mark Harris

          http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3672815/World-queues-win-trade-deals-Britain-Brexit.html Apparently the Republicans do want a start to trade negotiations..;

        2. Ken Hagan Gold badge
          IT Angle

          "the UK will be at the back of the queue"

          What queue? Are you seriously suggesting that countries the size of the US and China can only muster one set of negotiators, so all trade deals have to be done in sequence?

          Icon: we can do parallel now.

      2. Hollerithevo Silver badge

        Freedom of movement...

        Freedom of movement of people, goods, money... it's what happens within a country (Wales can't block an English person from moving there or selling cheese there) is supposed to happen within the EU, so that it, itself, becomes a manufacturing and trading entity dealing with the global market.

        1. inmypjs Silver badge

          Re: Freedom of movement...

          "the EU, so that it, itself, becomes a manufacturing and trading entity dealing with the global market."

          I think you will find the EU import tariffs, regulatory barriers, and so call anti-dumping levies are in place specifically to avoid "dealing with the global market".

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    huh?

    Why are all the people who voted to "get back control" and "restore the sovereignty of Parliament" suddenly worried about Parliament exercising its sovereignty?

  5. Efros

    Politicians

    Bricking it, left, right and centre. Needs a few with backbone to actually stand up and make the decision one way or the other, unfortunately years of social selection have ensured that parliament is almost entirely populated by spineless gits.

    1. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

      Re: Politicians

      I like spineless gits. Imagine how bad things would be if the clueless twits did something.

      1. Nick Kew

        Re: Politicians

        I like spineless gits. Imagine how bad things would be if the clueless twits did something.

        W.S. Gilbert put that point rather well in 1882, taking a long historic perspective.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The only true winners in all this:

    Law firm partners.

    1. Terry 6 Silver badge

      Re: The only true winners in all this:

      AC Please be fair. Other winners will be Yacht builders, stockbrokers, Horse breeders/trainers, Michelin star restaurants, High end cruise companies, jewellers, Wine and caviare importers, luxury estate agents, Sports car builders and many others.And of course all the jobs for legal clerks, (wine-) bar staff, etc.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "Law firm Mishcon de Reya has been instructed to launch a legal challenge to block Britain from leaving the European Union, in spite of the popular vote to leave the bloc."

    Except they're not.

    "Mishcon de Reya said “legal steps have been taken” to ensure Article 50 will not be triggered without an Act of Parliament."

    That is not the same as "a legal challenge to block Britain from leaving the European Union".

    Leaving it to the tea boy to write these articles again are we? Or just trying to be a troll?

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    52 to 48 gives them the authority...

    To negotiate an _actual_ Brexit agreement. Then parliament can vote on the exact deal of what will happen when we leave, not this is what 'we' want, but not what 'they' want over there and certainly not what the remainer's want, although 'they' can't agree with each other either.

    1. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

      Re: 52 to 48 gives them the authority...

      The UK parliament had the authority to argue with each other about a Brexit plan before the referendum. Lets pretend the Brexits immediately settle all their differences, come up with a plan and present it to the EU. The EU will dump it straight in the recycling because we haven't started article 50. So we pull the trigger and send another copy. The EU tell us what they think of this plan and the Brexits have to reach a consensus again.

      There are three ways this can end. 1: The exit agreement is the one written by the EU in which the UK does as it is told without having any say about anything. 2: Two years pass, no proposal for extension gets a unanimous vote so we are stuck with the WTO agreement (tolerable for goods, poor for services). 3: Before the two years are up, the UK cancels the article 50 negotiations and remains a full member of the EU.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: 52 to 48 gives them the authority...

        "There are three ways this can end."

        4. Parliament is dissolved, a general election is fought on the issue and the returned MPs vote against it.

  9. inmypjs Silver badge

    Reg readership

    Capital based ponces sure seem to be overrepresented.

    When the BBC website occasionally let people comment strong leave sentiment was generally up-voted 4-1.

    An observation which left me less surprised than many at the referendum outcome.

    Guess the register is a bit of an echo chamber.

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