back to article Boris Johnson set to step down with tech legacy in tatters

As UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson prepares to resign – but stay on in a caretaker role for three months – the momentous occasion offers the opportunity to reflect on his legacy of half-baked ideas and unfinished projects. The last 24 hours in British politics can be neatly summed up by the reaction of The Economist, which …

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        1. Eclectic Man Silver badge

          Re: Direct your ire...

          Andy 73> "You've done the classic thing of telling us how to run a project successfully, not how to get someone else (in this case the government) to run a project successfully."

          Yes, sorry, you are completely correct (have an upvote).

          But my point was that some, maybe even a lot of government IT procurements do actually succeed and work, it is only the ones that are abysmal failures that make the news. We need to get the government to put the people who ran the successful procurements in charge of the next lot, but considering the state of HMG at the moment, I shouldn't hold your breath, if I were you.

          1. R Soul Silver badge
            Flame

            Re: Direct your ire...

            "maybe even a lot of government IT procurements do actually succeed and work"

            Name one. Just one.

            1. Eclectic Man Silver badge

              Re: Direct your ire...

              I am not allowed to.I refer the honourable gentleperson to the statement I gave earlier:

              "*UK government procurements are covered by the OSA, so I am not at liberty to divulge the names or natures of these successes."

        2. Alan Brown Silver badge

          Re: Direct your ire...

          "How do you stop them from using idiot consultants to manage projects?"

          The older I get, the more I favour carefully targetted and discrete assassinations

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Direct your ire...

          but no-one seems to know how to make government do it those better ways

          Actually, people do know how to sort that - it's actually quite easy. All you need to do is have a civil service where the people who know how to do this sort of thing properly can be paid a market rate (give or take a bit for the "not half what they used to be" perks that go with being a civil servant) and employ the right people to do the job.

          Where it falls down is that certain red tops and many politicians see civil service pay as something that should be decided by political dogma rather than realism. In real terms, civil servants went through a decade of below inflation pay increases, we've had a year of no pay rises (i.e. pay freeze, not the insultingly misleading "pay pause"), and this year we've had a well below inflation pay rise. Now for good measure, it's been announced that for dogma, 1 in 5 of us is to go - no mention of reviewing what government wants the CS to deliver and how many people are needed for that, but a statement of cuts with no thought as to how that might impact service delivery.

          So, there we are, a government department with a need for a new system. In general we don't have the best project managers, or the best systems analysts, or the best ... well anything really. We have a few really good people who stay for their own reasons, but in general the best people go to private industry for a lot more money. We might get some consultants in (at a massively higher cost than it would have cost to actually have some skills in house) - but they will always have one eye on what's best for them, not the long term best for the department.

          And of course, even if by some fluke we did manage to get the system specs right, they'll be changed by some minister's sound bite that we'll hear about first in the papers.

          "The usual suspects" (i.e. the big 4 consultancy outfits) can pay for the best of the best when it comes to working the system.

          THAT is the pirmary reason government IT so often "fails", and how to fix it is obvious. But political dogma would not allow such a fix as it would go against the soundbites about "reducing headcount" and "reducing cost" in the civil service.

          And in case it wasn't obvious - posting anon as I am a currently serving civil servant. Working in a department dealing with some high tech engineering and significant safety responsibility. And last time I asked, we were "considerably" under staffed with many unfilled vacancies - partly because we cannot get people with the skills we need to come and work for what's on offer.

      1. Lars
        Coat

        Re: Direct your ire...

        @Eclectic Man

        "The Register, sadly, is as guilty of this sort of oversight as the other news media."

        Try to be a bit fair, only car accidents are reported, not all happy endings when people manage to reach their destination without an accident.

        1. Alan Brown Silver badge

          Re: Direct your ire...

          Of course. "news" is reporting the unusual

          This is WHY shootings and kiddy fiddlers get more coverage, despite us (and our children) being statistically safer than ever before

          It's a good thing car-crash IT projects are reported. I would be more worried if they were not and it was regarded as "normal"

          1. First Light

            Re: Direct your ire...

            Many, many children get sexually abused by relatives and strangers without it ever getting within a country mile of a police station. So official statistics about childhood sexual abuse cannot be considered as anything other than a vast underestimation.

        2. Eclectic Man Silver badge

          Re: Direct your ire...

          EM> "These do not get into the news because they are not disasters and therefore not deemed 'attention-worthy'. The Register, sadly, is as guilty of this sort of oversight as the other news media."

      2. Nick Ryan Silver badge

        Re: Direct your ire...

        Having also been involved in some governmental projects in the UK, the amount of blatant corruption involved was staggering. For example we were warned off bidding and told that our tender would not win unless we subcontracted out to specific other companies... companies that miraculously the same people assessing the bids had personal stakes in, or were close friends of. This was subcontracting out work that we could do ourselves.

    1. R Soul Silver badge

      Re: Direct your ire...

      No fucking chance. It'll take at least 30-50 years to get a more competent administration. That's how long is needed to get clueful people with a STEM background into the top jobs in government and politics. If they eve do. Just look at that today. Almost all the MPs, senior civil servants, and policy wonks come from the B ark of lawyers, PPE students, arts graduates, classics scholars and similar pond life.

      Hoping for more government competence is fine. But the signs point in the other direction. The wildly useless and stupid Priti Vacant, Mad Nad and JRM are still in post despite their protector's resignation.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Direct your ire...

        Looking at some of the contenders who've been listed there do seem to be a few with real-world experience there. Whether they survive the Westminster back-stabbing is a differen matter.

        But it's going to be difficult to recruit anyone of competence when the reaction of so many is to simply brand them as corrupt without even looking at all closely. Would you or any of the other commentards here step up to that? I wouldn't although I'm a bit long in the tooth for that anyway.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Direct your ire...

          "reaction of so many is to simply brand them as corrupt "

          What other description is appropriate for Boris's enablers? They knew he was unfit for public office. They knew he lied. They knew he was incompetent. They knew he couldn't run a cabinet government. They knew he didn't obey the rules and repeatedly broke the law. They knew his cabinet and government was chaotic and dysfunctional. But they said and did nothing about it for years. Shame on them.

          1. yetanotheraoc

            Re: Direct your ire...

            "They knew he was unfit for public office."

            They knew he could throw a good party.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Direct your ire...

              I think you meant to say they knew he could throw a good work event.

          2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

            Re: Direct your ire...

            You have missed my more general point which, I think, raises a serious and significant issue.

            You would like to see honest people with technical nous in government, as would most if not all of us here. But if the default attitude to anyone in politics is unthinkingly hostile how do you think that's going to happen. Who, as an honets techie, would take that step? The hostility is going to select for the thick-skinned, venal or power-hungry and block just the sort of candidates we'd prefer.

            This is something that needs to be addressed and it's going to take a good deal more thought than simply picking a group and dismissing them as corrupt. It's also going to take more thought than simply dismissing the Tories as a party of corruption especially if that involves ignoring what seems to me to be an inherently corrupt association between the unions* and Labour and a number of well documented examples of corruption in local government.

            * Who,in my limited dealings with them as a former member, regard their rank and file as no more than sources of income and cannon fodder.

            1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

              Re: Direct your ire...

              "The hostility is going to select for the thick-skinned, venal or power-hungry and block just the sort of candidates we'd prefer."

              The lean towards US style political campaigning isn't helping either. We see a lot less of the "here's what I can do for the country" and more of "have you seen how bad that guy is? I'm not as bad as that"

            2. jdiebdhidbsusbvwbsidnsoskebid Silver badge

              Re: Direct your ire...

              Once again, the late great Douglas Adams was spot on:

              "those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made [ruler] should on no account be allowed to do the job."

              1. Lars
                Joke

                Re: Direct your ire...

                He never did the job!

                1. Eclectic Man Silver badge
                  Joke

                  Re: Direct your ire...

                  Johnson: the Zaphod Beeblebrox of British politics.

            3. Robert Carnegie Silver badge

              Re: Direct your ire...

              You do it with a civil service that isn't political. Unfortunately, Britain's was scrapped and they pay expensive "consultants" instead.

          3. Stork

            Re: Direct your ire...

            That would also apply to the members for the conservative party who chose him, and arguably to a plurality of the voters of UK for electing him (even if I would also have doubts of picking the then opposition)

      2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Direct your ire...

        >It'll take at least 30-50 years to get a more competent administration. That's how long is needed to get clueful people with a STEM background into the top jobs in government and politics

        Just subcontract government to Singapore.

        Ok so it has even less democracy than the UK, but the trains run on time and everyone gets a council house

      3. WereWoof
        WTF?

        Re: Direct your ire...

        This! Why on earth would anyone think that degrees in Classics or Art would be a requirement to run a country?

        1. SundogUK Silver badge

          Re: Direct your ire...

          It's not a requirement. We live in a democracy and there are no 'requirements' to stand for public office. This is a good thing as otherwise the people who determined the 'requirement' would have control and we would no longer be a democracy.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Direct your ire...

            Actually, there #are# requirements, though they set a very low bar. As evidenced by the composition of Boris's clown cabinet and the elections of tossers like Jeremy Corbyn, JRM, Starmer, Johnson, the Fib Dems, Sturgeon, etc.

            And sadly, these requirements do not include honesty or integrity. They don't prevent crooks and the corrupt from standing either.

          2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

            Re: Direct your ire...

            "It's not a requirement. We live in a democracy and there are no 'requirements' to stand for public office."

            Well, there sort of is. You need money to run an election campaign. Then you need a party to represent if you want any hope of being more than a "lone voice" independent. Once you have a party, you need the members to select you to be their candidate in a particular constituency. All of a sudden, to stand any chance of being elected and advancing up the slippery pole to Cabinet or even party leader and PM, you need other politicians to be of a like mind and support you.

            1. Eclectic Man Silver badge

              Re: Direct your ire...

              I believe that there may also be a bar on people convicted of a crime of dishonesty (no seriously) standing for parliament. (El Reg's legal beagles, please advise.) So, someone convicted of fraud, for example, couldn't stand. Whereas merely hitting someone (yes, John Prescott, I am looking at you) is no hindrance.

        2. Alan Brown Silver badge

          Re: Direct your ire...

          On the other hand, everyone having degrees in engineering, etc is just as dangerous

          The problem is an UNBALANCED government and the bigger problem isn't the mix of people in the chambers but the non-democratic aspects of what's happening behind the scenes

          Mad Nad said the quiet bits out loud on TV, boiling down to: "Only the rich donors matter. They call the tune and what anyone else wants doesn't come into it"

          Unfortunately the other political parties in Britain are similarly captured and the USA became a lost cause many years ago

    2. Irony Deficient

      ("No one listened to me" is not a statement of political insight or influence.)

      “No one listened to me” is most certainly a statement of influence — at an infinitesimal level.

    3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Direct your ire...

      "For all the armchair experts who will loudly tell you they knew it would all go wrong"

      Slight problem with the tenses here. All along there have been plenty of people saying it will go wrong. Foresight, not hindsight. If the bystanders could see that why couldn't the participants? Wilful ignorance seems likely.

    4. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Direct your ire...

      >Whilst it's very easy to focus on Boris as the centre of the omnishambles,

      Wasn't that his job?

      He was put in by 'those that really run things' (*) to be a distraction and do something amusingly headline grabbingly stupid everytime some evil financial plan was being put in place/

      (* I really hope that things are being run by a secret cabel of evil supervillians, the truth that everyone in power is simply incompetently stupid and venal is distressing)

      1. yetanotheraoc

        Re: Direct your ire...

        They are evil, just be thankful they are also incompetent.

      2. Alan Brown Silver badge

        Re: Direct your ire...

        You've got it in one. It was pretty obvious to a lot of people that he's a "stalking horse" - a convenient idiot to distract from the people behind the curtain and a convenient scapegoat for them later on

        He's far too egotistical to even realise he's being played like a fiddle. His refusal to leave is as much a distraction from the mechanations as what's been happening up until how

        Imagine scheming, pandering and planning to be leader your whole life, only to find you're utterly crap at it like everyone was telling you all along

      3. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: Direct your ire...

        "(* I really hope that things are being run by a secret cabel of evil supervillians, the truth that everyone in power is simply incompetently stupid and venal is distressing)"

        Sadly, I don't think there really is a secret cabal of evil supervillains behind this. That would imply there was some sort of plan[*] behind this. The evidence suggests there is no plan. A, B or otherwise.

        *a clever and apparently competent one but, as ever, with an obvious but fatal flaw, of course :-)

        1. Nick Ryan Silver badge

          Re: Direct your ire...

          I suspect most of the plans are short term "grab and run" type of plans, but upsettingly it doesn't surprise me to see a few longer term structural plans such as the destruction of the NHS in favour of the US scheme where health is a cash cow for the select few.

      4. Adrian 4

        Re: Direct your ire...

        > (* I really hope that things are being run by a secret cabel of evil supervillians, the truth that everyone in power is simply incompetently stupid and venal is distressing)

        So would I, but Hanlon's razor makes it unlikely. People really are just stupid, especially in crowds, like politicians.

    5. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Re: Direct your ire...

      "it is our failure to stand by and let better ideas be sidelined and ignored."

      Unfortunately, that's not how democracy works in reality. It's not a Woolworth Pick'n'Mix counter when you cast your vote. You vote for an MP, for whatever reason you think valid, but by definition you are endorsing that partys entire manifesto content and accepting that if they get in power, much of that will change anyway "due to circumstances". The rare independants have little to no power or influence and the rare "honest politician" party member gets subsumed by their party either by being sidelined if they don't toe the line, or giving up some or all of their principles so as to advance in the party.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Direct your ire...

        Technically you aren't voting for party.

        You are voting for the person that best represents your interests.

        In doing so you are delegating to them the power to act on your behalf as they see fit - which may or may not be in accordance with your views or desires.

        They also have a duty to do what is best for all their constituents - not just their electors - a point often ignored.

        However, reality is that, as you say, party alignment and manifestos prevents all this from working. Though from time to time you do find an MP who is respected by the community she or he (we, they, us, innit , ya, non-tertiary, whatever) represents.

        But without political parties and alignements and coalitions it would be impossible to form a government unless you force a president or a monarch to make those choices ... equally fraught with difficulty.

        1. Nick Ryan Silver badge

          Re: Direct your ire...

          This is exactly the problem - party politics is to the complete detriment of what the loudly shouted benefits of democracy are. The US is already a farce by way of this, the UK is pretty close behind but at least there are a few third options. Combine this with career politicians and the only thing that's going to come from it is short termisn, greed, fear an cults of personality. Actually doing what they were voted to do? As in to represent the local people to the best of their ability? A distance consideration for most.

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    This man was my boss when he was mayor, and I had the dubious honour of seeing him up close on a number of occasions. On being elected mayor, his team didn't have a clue what the different agencies did, resulting in chaos. Amazingly, we still managed to deliver a successful Olympics, but that was probably because it had already achieved a momentum where even Boris and his chums couldn't f*ck it up. And it was "chums" - he would appoint old school and university acquaintances to unelected posts regardless of their lack of experience.

    I saw him fall off a low stage while giving a speech at city hall, despite repeated warnings to watch his step from a long suffering aide. I also saw the same aide panic when Boris visited our office and she lost track of him. On being told he was last seen wobbling towards the kitchen area she was genuinely concerned he might injure himself.

    The man is a bullsh*tter and lazy buffoon who has only succeeded due to privilege and some people finding him amusing. Personally I want clowns in a circus, not public office.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I think in all honesty he's also succeeded in part due to who he's up against at the time. Many of the positions he's been in have been "who's maybe least worst" scenarios.

      Not saying the electorate always chose correctly but when there's only two bad options it's flip a coin time.

    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      "some people finding him amusing"

      And some people - like the ERG - finding him useful.

      1. Fonant Silver badge

        The ERG, in turn, being useful to disaster capitalists and rich Russians.

        1. ICL1900-G3 Silver badge

          Oh, dear, some rich capitalists and Russians didn't like that.

    3. Alan Brown Silver badge

      "On being told he was last seen wobbling towards the kitchen area she was genuinely concerned he might injure himself."

      In hindsight perhaps you should have told her he was heading outside?

    4. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      "The man is a bullsh*tter and lazy buffoon who has only succeeded due to privilege and some people finding him amusing. Personally I want clowns in a circus, not public office."

      Thanks for that first hand insight. I've often suspected he might just be a clown for the public but behind closed doors, he's a clever, scheming arch-villain in the making. Clearly, he really is WYSIWYG. (Also, I just realised, an apt description of his hair)

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I had the "pleasure" of meeting him once, before he was even Mayor of London. It was about rail services to his constituency (Theresa May, a neighbouring MP was also there) and up to that time I'd assumed he was a clever individual, with the amiable, unfocussed buffoon a persona used on Have I got news for you etc. I was wrong, he was an idiot who thought he could wing it with no preparation.

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I haven't met the clown personally, but I had enough conversations with one of his ex PAs (while he was mayor), who effectively ran his life for him. Down to the level that she bought his wife's cards, anniversary presents and so on, all on office time and often expensed of course. He was summed as not being stupid, in fact quite smart in some specific ways, but absolutely and totally selfish and considerate of nobody else unless doing so would benefit him personally in some way.

      1. Eclectic Man Silver badge
        Joke

        Re: PAs

        "she bought his wife's cards, anniversary presents and so on"

        What, for all his wives, or just the one he happened to be married to at the time?

        OTOH if Boris was buying you a present, you'd probably want someone else to choose it.

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