back to article Microsoft now awfully pushy with Windows 10 on Win 7, 8 PCs – Reg readers hit back

Have you noticed Microsoft being a little too eager in pushing its Windows 10 upgrade lately? You're not alone. The Reg news tip inbox has been awash the past few days with readers reporting that the newest version of Windows has been forcing itself onto computers amid other operating system updates, and sometimes even …

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  1. mtp

    Win10 is almost a virus

    Same experience here. Win10 is becoming something of a virus and I am having to continually fight to prevent it overwriting my OS (Win 7). Nothing should be allowed to replace the OS on my PC without my explicit consent, Win 10 is right on the edge of this.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Win10 is almost a virus

      No it isn't. Viruses are small and efficient.

    2. Mat
      Thumb Up

      Re: Win10 is almost a virus

      So glad my Windows 7 VM apparently *can't* update due to incompatible processor!

      1. Bronek Kozicki Silver badge

        Re: Win10 is almost a virus

        Well, it tried to upgrade my Windows 7 virtual machines (linux 3.18 + kvm + qemu 2.4 + libvirt + hyper-V enlightenment ). Even though they belong to AD domain (on samba4).

  2. mr.K

    Patching tuesday - the new peril

    And on this months menu we recommend to avoid these items, and while this might help you avoid Microsoft Muppetry (MM) we make no guarantees. Not suitable for small parts, may contain children. Batteries not included.

    KB3083710 - still no information about what this does, but it is important they tell me.

    And these three were unhidden once again:

    KB2952664 - haha,

    KB3035583 - update app *shudder*

    KB2999226 - probably OK, but it mentions windows 10, so neh

    1. Kev99

      Re: Patching tuesday - the new peril

      Here are links that REALLY tell you exactly what this KBs do:

      https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3083710 Still don't know this POS does, but it hits a TON of apps. Maybe someone at the windows community will know.

      https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/2952664 This one failed to install on my PC. YIPPEE!!

      https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3035583 NOT on my PC, mate.

      https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/2999226 This appears to be a Win10 update so Win8 and Win7 app will run.

      To find other KBs, copy the URL and insert the KB number after the last /.

      To get rid of these pests if already installed, go to control panel>programs and features> installed updates.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Patching tuesday - the new peril

        "/3035583"

        The last time I uninstalled KB3035583 my PC took nearly an hour to restart fully.

      2. veti Silver badge

        Re: Patching tuesday - the new peril

        3083710 is one of the infamous "updates to update Update". There's no way to know precisely what it does. Deny, but don't hide - I'll look at this one again tomorrow, assuming if it screws the world up, I'll hear about it by then.

        2952664: "Compatibility update for upgrading Windows 7". Yeah, if I were running Win 7 I'd come looking for that when I want to upgrade and not before. Deny.

        3035583: "Update installs Get Windows 10 app in Windows 8.1 and Windows 7 SP1". You have to be kidding. Deny.

        2999226: "Update for Universal C Runtime in Windows": Only needed if you're running either Win10, or Visual Studio 2015. Deny.

    2. Mad_Max

      Re: Patching tuesday - the new peril

      "KB3083710 - still no information about what this does, but it is important they tell me."

      Microsoft - KB3083710 improvements to Windows Update Client in Windows 7 Service Pack 1 (SP1) and Windows Server 2008 R2 SP1

      I believe KB3083710 changes your update settings from check for updates but let me choose when to download and install them to install updates automatically. When KB 3083710 is installed it automatically installs KB 2952664 when you shut down

  3. Bob Magoo

    Critical backup computer and anti-virus server

    Running a Windows client OS? Are you fscking serious?????

  4. BugabooSue
    Stop

    Am so pissed right now with this!

    Agree with the sentiments above.

    I have been with Microsoft from the beginning. The Very Beginning!

    Until recently, my office ran 12 computers - all on varying forms of Windows from 7 Home to 8.1 Pro. Then came Win10.

    I have in the past messed with various flavours of Linux, but the learning curve was too great for me. This time I finally got pushed over the edge!

    There are only 3, that's *THREE PCs* still running any form of Windows because of this incessant sneaky-upgrade shit. These remaining computers now have all Windows updates turned off, and are examined daily for Windows Snoopware and sneaky-upgrade attempts.

    Everything else runs Ubuntu, Fedora, or Suse.

    Nice one Nadella - Way to piss off a whole section of once-loyal users.

    If you'd let us 'upgrade' on our own terms, things *might* have been different.

    Seriously guy, you and your company really suck.

    1. Steven Raith

      Re: Am so pissed right now with this!

      I threw myself from the frying pan into the fire and moved into Linux support this time last year.

      I say this not to crow, but because it's true, that I am genuinely relieved that I don't have to deal with the fallout of all this Windows 10 upgrade shite; it sounds bloody horrific if you're looking after SOHO/SMB customers who might just click through because Windows Update, and those of you dealing with it have my genuine sympathies.

      Ick.

      Steven R

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Am so pissed right now with this!

        I warned all the people who are normally dependent on my support. They were told not to upgrade to W10 until I said it was stable and had no problems. Then I reinforced that with a warning about the W10 spyware.

        Unfortunately there is no way I can bring my users up to speed to avoid all the rocks that MS has now thrown at W7. I'm not even sure my PCs are clean at the moment.

        The best I can do is get their PCs in for a delousing. That will cost me ££££s for each round trip for some of them.

        1. Someone Else Silver badge
          Coat

          Re: Am so pissed right now with this!

          This shit is starting to make Win XP look real good (again)!

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Am so pissed right now with this!

            @SomeoneElse

            > This shit is starting to make Win XP look real good (again)!

            True, if we end up having to turn off updates on W7 that puts it in the same basket as XP.

            Suddenly smug because I haven't got around to upgrading from Vista...

            1. Mark 85 Silver badge

              Re: Am so pissed right now with this!

              And if one turns off the updates.... there's a downside? Might be worth thinking about to just keep blocking the OS upgrades and running the security patches until they start disguising "upgrades" as 'security".....

            2. nijam

              Re: Am so pissed right now with this!

              > ... smug because I haven't got around to upgrading from Vista...

              That's a phrase one doesn't encounter every day. Maybe it'll be turning up more often now, though...

          2. Uncle Slacky Silver badge
            Windows

            Re: Am so pissed right now with this!

            As I said in another thread - Windows Fundamentals for Legacy PCs (basically minimal XP) shares the same base as POS, so it's still getting updates.

          3. MJI Silver badge

            Re: Am so pissed off right now with this!

            Corrected title

            Anyway at home I have left the OS the same as the OS it was built with, then rebuilt with new MB and CPU.

            I still get updates, as I ran the registry hack to allow it, and I am still running (pretty well) XP Pro with a dual boot I am preparing to use as main boot of Linux Mint CInnamon.

            Neither OS is giving me any crap, all I had to block on XP was the malware they wrote a few years ago post SP3.

          4. Nigel Campbell

            Re: Am so pissed right now with this!

            I have a theory that Windows peaked with NT5 (Windows 2000) and it's been pretty steadily downhill ever since.

  5. Captain DaFt

    Read the EULA, people

    That copy of Windows installed on your computer is not yours, they're just letting you lease it while retaining all rights to modify, alter, and even kill it at anytime, while leaving all the problems caused on your shoulders.

    Right now they're seeing how far they can push that before the majority of users push back.

    1. FozzyBear
      Black Helicopters

      Re: Read the EULA, people

      You are right. That is essentially what the EULA dictates. Still doesn't make it right. They do not have the right to force you to accept any or all changes. I am still the gate keeper of my systems and I dictate how I want my systems to run. I make the decisions on what, if any, information I share. And I certainly get to make the decisions on how my system accepts updates or security patches

      This action by MS is the final straw for many users who have been able to overlook or even forgive MS's indiscretions in the past. Anyone who is not a mindless lemming is moving on I have, they have lost me as a customer. Honestly I haven't regretted that decision for one second.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Alien

        Re: Read the EULA, people

        >"Still doesn't make it right."

        Also doesn't make it binding.

        Outside the "Land of the free[sic]" EULAs are typically declarations of opinion peppered with unlawful contract terms.

        1. Mpeler
          Pint

          Re: Read the EULA, people

          Yes, it's no longer "land of the free", it's "land of the FEE".

          Please update your documentation, EULAs, etc.

      2. skeptical i
        Thumb Down

        Re: Read the EULA, people

        How does it benefit Microsoft in the long term to have a EULA that essentially says "the floor will be shifting, the rug likely yanked out from under your operation as we see fit, and any bad outcomes are your problem to solve"? I hear time and again how the business community wants "predictability", this magic fun house forced update regime sounds exactly like what the corporate sector would run screaming from. Unless it's Microsoft's next extortion venture: "That's a nice business you got there, it'd be a shame if anything were to happen to it, wouldn't it? For a small fee, Guido here will see to it that no unfortunate ... upgrade ... befalls your business ...."

        1. Captain DaFt

          Re: Read the EULA, people

          -Unless it's Microsoft's next extortion venture: "That's a nice business you got there, it'd be a shame if anything were to happen to it, wouldn't it? For a small fee, Guido here will see to it that no unfortunate ... upgrade ... befalls your business ...."-

          "Next"? That's been SOP all along:

          Wanna run your business on Windows? Super, it's fast, easy, efficient, and reliable... Just sign here, here, and here.

          Good, you're all set! Of course, we'll need you to pay all these licenses, annually, and, oh yeah, you'll definitely need to buy Windows Support for quite a hefty sum for when things can go wrong, and they will!

          What? Of course we said it's reliable... *Snerk, hmpphh, BWAA-HAHAHAHAHA!* Ahem. Just keep paying and hope we don't alter the deal further. *Spoiler* We will!

    2. Someone Else Silver badge
      Mushroom

      Re: Read the EULA, people

      "Look behind you Satya. There's the line."

      1. Message From A Self-Destructing Turnip

        Re: Read the EULA, people

        "Could someone please lend him a telescope?"

  6. Grikath

    the offending KB's

    The big culprit is KB 3035583. it shows the usual blurb about "solving problems in windows" in the update info, but actually installs an app called "dowload windows 10 for win 7SP1 and Win 8.1".

    Associated to it are KB's 2999226 ( update for win10 universal CRT ) and 2952664 ( upgrade to win7 to "facilitate" the upgrade to the latest version of windows.. a whole slew of files gets adressed here.). Both the same noninformative blurb, and you need to actually *read* the KB info to figure out what's up.

    I think there's legal terms for this kind of behaviour. Not very nice ones either.

    1. Stoneshop Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: the offending KB's

      I think there's legal terms for this kind of behaviour.

      I prefer the illegal terms.

  7. Cirdan
    Linux

    Ubuntu since 2006, now Linux Mint

    Welcome aboard, folks. :-)

  8. Dan 55 Silver badge
    Devil

    I can see it now...

    "This mistake affected a small number of Windows 7 and 8 installations. We are looking into the error."

    Where small number = 10%, the error will repeat every month, and it will take 10 months to discover what's happening.

    This is happening on purpose, there are consistent reports of computers starting to download the "upgrade" without the user giving consent both last month and this month.

  9. Kev99

    Be alert for KB3035583. This is the illegitimate offspring of an inebriated cocotte that will load the upgrade app onto your computer. If you find it, check updates history, immediately remove it.

  10. Tannin

    A very useful clean-up and block script

    I've been using this very useful tool: https://voat.co/v/technology/comments/459263 to remove all the scumware from Windows 7 & 8 - including not just the Windows 10 stealth download stuff but also the tracking a telemetry. Seems to work perfectly. Recommended.

    1. AlbertH
      Linux

      Re: A very useful clean-up and block script

      Sadly, there's a lot of concealed "telemetry" that you'll never find and can't disable since it's baked right into the kernel. The only way to stop MS and the NSA abusing your computer is to flush Windows. You've already spent a fortune on brokenware - don't give these illegitimate offspring any more of your hard-earned. Apple are almost as bad, incidentally.

      LINUX or BSD is the answer!

  11. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

    Mistake?

    This was deliberate. Many users are probably wondering how they are now using W10. Also, this is great way, if highly unethical and possibly illegal, to pad the W10 install base. Next month there will be a report that W10 installs jumped considerably.

    1. Stoneshop Silver badge
      Linux

      Re: Mistake?

      Next month there will be a report that W10 installs jumped considerably.

      The month after there will be a report that Mint/Ubuntu/OpenSuSE/Centos/etc installs jumped considerably.

  12. razorfishsl Silver badge

    It is great......

    I'm getting more and more users saying their home computers running windows have been updated and cannot boot or are slow, can I fix non-work equipment.......... NO!!!!

    Go buy a mac or run linux....

    OK it's only 50 or so people, but hopefully it will multiply out ,after all business execs usually cannot handle this

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      "it will multiply out"

      Quite so. The posts that say we're not the target markets (maybe that should be marks?) have missed the point. We're the ones who are advising others. Friends and family who come looking for help with their W10s aren't going to get it, they're going to be directed to alternative OSes.

      It's noticeable that many posts on this sort of thread are from people who say they've been MS supporters from way back and who are now changing their minds. MS really have misjudged badly to alienate so many supporters.

      1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

        MS really have misjudged badly to alienate so many supporters.

        Anyone else get the feeling that they just

        'Don't give a Damm'?

        Surely some of this negativity has got past their Happiness Filter and reached top management?

        The question is...

        Will they change anything?

        At the moment, I doubt it.

        Sad to see them have to resort to these tactics.

  13. Jim O'Reilly

    I complained to Oracle's ethics exec about the ASK toolbar that Java updating added automatically...it took me two hours to purge its pieces from my system. Oracle cleaned that one up quickly.

    This Microsoft thing is far more egregious. It's probably a bit like that Volkswagen fiasco...instituted by low-level guys to get ahead. Will complaining to Sadya Nadella get this monster cleaned up before we all are driven insane? After all, he said, "We set high ethical standards at Microsoft and we expect every employee to live up to those standards."

    Can Microsoft do as well as Oracle?

    1. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

      VW admitted to fault even if they are trying to find an internal fall guy to offer up. Also, VW's sin was to try fooling the US EPA not their customers. MS is worse than Oracle, VW, and Comcast. The others at least had the good sense not to completely screw the suckers er customers.

      1. AlbertH
        Black Helicopters

        Funnily enough, Ford, Citroen / Peugeot and most of the other car manufacturers are doing exactly the same as VW. It's the only way that they can pass the emissions tests in some regions!

      2. Mpeler
        Flame

        More than just V-Dubs in the tub, there's the rub

        I think before this all winds out you'll see more than just VW having dodgy mapping software.

        The controller in question is a piece of Bosch kit that's used by almost ALL Common Rail diesels out there. And the problems (read:NOx) with Common Rail were known and discussed ad nauseum in various engineering and auto fora before the engines hit the market. I have one of the last "Pump-Düse" diesels that came out of VW; nosier than Common Rail, but works like a champ.

        As for the US EPA, same criminals as the wahoos in the EU. People have discovered that CO² won't kill everyone, so we need a new disaster to extract peoples' money. This time it's NOx. Rinse, repeat. High efficiency, lean burn, or low pollutants (or pee in your fuel tank), take your pick.

        Btw, AdBlue was already slated for almost ALL new diesels before this "scandal" came out (due to EU6 standards). Maybe someone wanted to *cough* round up the rest of them?

        I think the EPA has morphed into "Extorting People All-the-time". The only thing they protect anymore are their own (and the 1%) interests.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      that Java updating added automatically.

      Only if you didn't read the message, and left it ticked.

      Annoying as hell, yes, unethical, maybe, but automatic? Not really. It was opt-out when it should have been opt-in, but the option was there.

  14. dan1980

    There must be something, legally, that can be said here.

    Leaving that aside, and also leaving aside any complaints about this (I think they've been covered well enough by those above), this is not a good look for Microsoft.

    What does it say for your latest and greatest if you feel you have to force it on people and are being increasingly sneaky about it?

    Going back to what's wrong with it, one of my (Win 7) laptops runs solely via a 3G dongle. It's not my main PC and I use it primarily for remote access to work and e-mail when I am away. My plan is 2GB and costs $30* per month. If this update downloads when I am not expecting it, who is going to pay for the excess bandwidth?

    Now, I am an IT bod so I have the knowledge to sort these things out and I usually update the laptop when connected to a fixed network but not everyone has that skillset and knowledge.

    If, as a tech 'guru', you setup a PC or laptop for a friend or family member who has little to no IT knowledge, you would generally enable automatic updates, excluding the optional ones. You know they're not going to understand it and won't do it themselves and you want them to be secure. You certainly don't want them turn on the PC one day and find a new OS has been installed!

    * - Or there abouts - it's bundled on the same account as my mobile so I don't really pay much attention to it.

    1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

      US Mobile Data Plans

      Screw you as much as thie godforsaken W10 update

      Here in the UK I pay approx $22.50 for 15Gb/month in Tax/Vat.

      Why not Add your Cell Carriers to the Hate list?

      It will make many feel a lot better you know.

    2. Andy A

      You are not the only one!

      I don't have a landline at home - I connect to the world through a 3G dongle too. Most of the time I download stuff somewhere cheaper, like the free connection down at the pub.

      All my machines are updated through WSUS which runs in a VM on my W7 laptop. That way I get to choose what patches to apply. I denied the download and installation of the "Get Win10" patch. My boxes can be set up to automatically update, because I have pre-approved things in WSUS, right?

      So imagine my surprise when my 3G ran out of data unexpectedly. What normally lasted a month ran out in less than a week.

      Examining the root of my W7 laptop I found a couple of folders holding over 4GB of Windows 10 installation files. Microsoft had just helped themselves to fifty quid's worth of MY bandwidth. Note that the box is set up to get its updates from my WSUS VM, and NOT from MS.

  15. davidp231

    I had to hide it twice on a Win 7 laptop I was doing updates on.

    1. VinceH

      I decided to deal with updates this morning (before reading El Reg, so I hadn't seen this article and discussion yet) and spotted the pre-ticked "optional" downgrade to Windows 10.

      Having unticked and hid it, I decided to make a cuppa before looking through the updates to see what to install... so I closed the window. When I came back, it was ticked again. So I hid it again.

      At this point, I'd - like you - hidden it twice. Since it came back the first time, I decided to check... I closed the window then went back into updates again. This time it was still hidden.

      However, I decided to experiment further - and rebooted the computer. Going back into updates again, it was back, and ticked. I unticked and hid it again, and this time it stayed hidden when I came out of updates and went back in.

      It's currently installing the updates I selected. Once it's finished, I'll do another reboot and see if it comes back again. (In fact, it's just finished and I can see it wants to reboot), so I'll do that now.

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