Windows 10 can carry on slurping even when you're sure you yelled STOP!

A feature introduced in the April 2018 Update of Windows 10 may have set off a privacy landmine within the bowels of Redmond as users have discovered that their data was still flowing into the intestines of the Windows giant, even with the thing apparently turned off. In what is likely to be more cock-up than conspiracy, it …

[arctic_haze]

Re: diving headlong into the Registry

Also change the following

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\SecretRedmontSetting]

"UserDataSlurping"="0"

Maybe the setting does not exist but it should.

[Maventi]

Re: diving headlong into the Registry

I thought one of the advantages of Windows over Linux was not having to resort to 'complex' stuff like this?

[JWLong]

Re: diving headlong into the Registry

https://download.spybot.info/AntiBeacon/SpybotAntiBeacon-1.6-setup.exe

Enjoy!

[Wellyboot]

I've got an inkling

>>>left users unsure of what is being collected and when<<<

'Everything' & 'All the time' seems a reasonable conclusion given the 25,000 'events' being tracked.

[Anonymous Coward]

In what is likely to be more cock-up than conspiracy,

why do Microsoft get the luxury of innocent until proven guilty?

Look at the the idiot rabid Google hate here, and it's no surprise, there is a huge paid agenda going on...

[Remy Redert]

Re: In what is likely to be more cock-up than conspiracy,

Mostly because recent events have shown that if Microsoft wanted to do this on purpose they'd probably cock it up and turn off telemetry entirely.

[Michael Strorm]

Re: In what is likely to be more cock-up than conspiracy,

"why do Microsoft get the luxury of innocent until proven guilty?"

MS lost anything resembling the benefit of the doubt in my mind when they started trying to coerce and force-upgrade users into installing Windows 10, ignoring or resetting user preferences that contradicted this, using "dark pattern" design on dialogue boxes where use of the "close" button was taken as "accept" rather than the implicitly (and widely-accepted) meaning of "cancel" and intentionally overriding tools designed to *force* MS to pay attention to a user's preferences and not upgrade (whose necessity already showed that MS had gone too far in the first place) using techniques that even bland, conservative mainstream publications like C|Net were comparing to that of malware.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: In what is likely to be more cock-up than conspiracy,

@Michael_Strorm

Yup....agree completely. However some of us got there a bit earlier after watching:

- theft from Stac Electronics

- attempt to screw with DR-DOS

- successful attempt to screw with Netscape

- branded "monopolist" by the courts

- ...and so on....

*

Of course, there were much earlier clues. Take a read of Bill's "Open Letter to Hobbyists" in 1976. Or the "Evangelism is War" emails in 2000. And here we are in 2018....nothing has changed.

[Hans 1]

Re: In what is likely to be more cock-up than conspiracy,

yeah, the fact you cannot turn off all slurping is a bug as well, the fact that they keep hiding it in updates to Windows 7 is due to bugs as well ... they really, really, really meant to have separate optional patches for slurping in 7, but somehow, the build system went haywire and decided on its very own, thanks to MS' incredibly efficient AI built in to its CC, that it would be much better to hide any slurpy features in obscure patches.

No conspiracy, here ... all bugs!

[Pascal Monett]

The real question is . . .

Why has none of this telemetry helped to ensure that Update 1809 wasn't a complete fiasco ?

When NASA has telemetry, it's to find out what went wrong and find a solution to it.

Since Windows telemetry was worth fuck all for that, what do they actually use it for ?

[King Jack]

Re: The real question is . . .

Probably sell it to anyone who wants it. Governments, ad agencies, etc. That is why there are no law suits.

In the real world if you take something from somebody without their consent you get a trip to the police station. If you are M$.... SILENCE.

[sisk]

Re: In what is likely to be more cock-up than conspiracy,

why do Microsoft get the luxury of innocent until proven guilty

Because conspiracy requires competence and Microsoft has none. That said, cock-up or conspiracy you can bet your arse that they're going to be selling all the data they've collected whether they had permission and collected it on purpose or not.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: In what is likely to be more cock-up than conspiracy,

They are both equally as bad as each other and with MS being all pally with Google over Chrome... Is it any wonder that there is a lot of hate towards them both.

Windows 10 is not fit for service in any SME business. Unless your IT support is on the ball a simple update could ruin the business.

I avoid both slimeball organisations as much possible. Chrome is prohibited on my systems.

[Semtex451]

It's beginning to look a lot like....

1984

No wait, 1984 is beginning to look like a better option

[AMBxx]

It would be interesting to do a 1984 TV Series, but updated for current technology. Instead of a telescreen, we'd have one of the google or Amazon screens that are so widely used.

TV watching monitored. Websites/wikipedia edited as needed rather than going to all the fuss of changing paper. Books instead of being recalled just updated on your kindle.

For current life, all we'd really need to add are microphones to the current CCTV systems.

Scary part would be millenials not understanding what the fuss is about.

Then we could do Brave New World. Very similar parallels.

[Wellyboot]

A decade ago..

@AMBxx >>>all we'd really need to add are microphones to the current CCTV systems.<<<

From 2007 - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6524495.stm - and the links therein.

[Anonymous Custard]

Re: A decade ago..

@AMBxx - forget the TV show, just look out the window...

[imanidiot]

Throw in monitoring via Smartphones and you've basically tagged every single citizen in the western world with their own personal spy bug already.

[Mage]

Smartphones?

When people PAY for Amazon Echo, Dot and connect their smart TV with mic and "Android TV" GUI to Internet? I can't believe the use and user agreements of Android TV in most TVs now in Europe is even legal.

IoT gadgets too.

[jelabarre59]

Throw in monitoring via Smartphones and you've basically tagged every single citizen in the western world with their own personal spy bug already.

unless you're carrying it in something like the belt-pouch I use for mine. If it can manage to muffle the ring enough that I don't hear it while driving (OK, I also have my stereo playing), then it wouldn't take much to muffle the microphone to unusability.

[Zog_but_not_the_first]

Black Mirror

"It would be interesting to do a 1984 TV Series, but updated for current technology"

See title. Pretty much what you asked for. And more.

[Michael Wojcik]

Re: Black Mirror

My wife and I watched the first episode of Black Mirror and found it pompous, overblown, self-indulgent, and generally annoying. Maybe it gets better, but I don't know if I'll ever get around to finding out. (There's a lot of content out there, and I don't watch much television anyway.)

In any case, for most middle-class industrialized-democracy citizens the present cultural moment is much more akin to Brave New World than Nineteen Eighty-Four¹ (or that first episode of Black Mirror). It's cooption, not oppression; it's about enjoying being controlled, not suffering under it. Levi's, not bread lines.

¹Orwell hated it when people wrote the title in numerals. He felt that emphasized what was a completely arbitrary date, rather than the themes he felt were important.

[sisk]

Re: Black Mirror

My wife and I watched the first episode of Black Mirror and found it pompous, overblown, self-indulgent, and generally annoying.

Some episodes are better than others, and each episode feels (to me anyway) more like a self-contained movie than an episode of a series. I'd personally recommend watching another episode or two before you write it off completely.

In any case, for most middle-class industrialized-democracy citizens the present cultural moment is much more akin to Brave New World than Nineteen Eighty-Four

Absolutely. What's truly terrifying is how few people realize that. Though I will point out that more and more political rallies - in all camps - seem to bear a resemblance to 2 minutes of hate from Nineteen Eighty-Four.

Orwell hated it when people wrote the title in numerals. He felt that emphasized what was a completely arbitrary date, rather than the themes he felt were important.

I vaguely remember seeing him quoted as saying his only regret about the book was the title and that he felt he'd gotten the rest of it basically right.

[Michael Wojcik]

Re: Black Mirror

Some episodes are better than others, and each episode feels (to me anyway) more like a self-contained movie than an episode of a series. I'd personally recommend watching another episode or two before you write it off completely.

Yeah, I'll add it back to my list, and give another couple of episodes a try.

Though I will point out that more and more political rallies - in all camps - seem to bear a resemblance to 2 minutes of hate from Nineteen Eighty-Four.

True. People want both sorts of circuses to go with their bread.

[amanfromMars 1]

Big Brave New World Brothers and Sisters

It would be interesting to do a 1984 TV Series, but updated for current technology. Instead of a telescreen, we'd have one of the google or Amazon screens that are so widely used.

TV watching monitored. Websites/wikipedia edited as needed rather than going to all the fuss of changing paper. Books instead of being recalled just updated on your kindle.

For current life, all we'd really need to add are microphones to the current CCTV systems.

Scary part would be millenials not understanding what the fuss is about.

Then we could do Brave New World. Very similar parallels. .... AMBxx

For Virtual Realisation of the Entitled Above ....... would One do IT Best with Tender Invitations for Supply of Perfect Core Source Feed with Immaculate Seeds/Enlightened Trails in Heavenly Trials ..... LoadsaMoney for Nothing, Helluva Chicks for Free was Never Ever Sweeter Delivered Just in Time and Way Out Ahead in Space for Operating Systems which do All the Leading in IntelAIgently Supplied Places/Special Areas of Particular and Peculiar Interest and Ripe Ready for Global Presentation in an EMPowering Stream of Future Indicative Programs ....... BlockBuster AIMovements for Audacious TeleVisualisation.

Whatever the Cost, IT's a Certain Bargain.

[Cliff Thorburn]

Re: Big Brave New World Brothers and Sisters

You make it sound so easy amfM ...

[amanfromMars 1]

Re: Big Brave New World Brothers and Sisters

You make it sound so easy amfM ... ... Cliff Thorburn

Whenever so simple, it is not difficult, CT. All problems arise for those and that which know not what they should be doing for a greater and completely different future program.

[Wayland]

re: modern tech 1984

AMBxx

It is interesting how Winston had to edit physical newspapers and burn the unwanted paper. That was the part that did not really make sense. The reader could see what they were driving at but in practice it was unworkable.

It's still unworkable but not actually necessary. People have short memories and websites can be altered or removed very easily. Any evidence that still does turn up is simply ignored as the work of conspiracy theorists.

We also do have Brave New World. Plenty of Happy Pills and pills to stop you ageing. It's obvious they have reduced teenage pregnancies with Gardesil. It's obvious that Chemo is a cure for ageing.

[Woza]

To repurpose Tim Minchin's song about Google Streetview:

"It's just like 1984 - well,

Even the late Georgie Orwell,

Would surely think he was hearing a fiction

If you tried to describe how far this shit's gone -

Would presume you were taking the piss

Being happy with technology like this..."

[Zippy´s Sausage Factory]

I read that as "update 1984" in the same way as "update 1809". No doubt that's a horror that still awaits us...

[disk iops]

it really is shameless. And especially since nobody gives a good damn what they do on their respective devices. Really, some twit has been clamoring to have application state follow them from phone to desktop to slate? What, one pathetic puke out of a million? How many thousands of man-hours were spent writing all this spyware when even microsoft doesn't use it in any useful capacity (serious bugs in preview releases being ignored, anyone?); ignoring for the moment they aren't remotely entitled to have it in the first place without my express say-so.

Whatever happened to shooting dead the morons be they marketing, managment, or engineer who though "using my computer" needed to mashed into an activity feed, ala farcebook?

[chivo243]

@disk iops

(serious bugs in preview releases being ignored, anyone?)

Of course they ignored any real information in the slurp... M$ won't use any of it, but they will "SELL IT" to the highest bidder, just like Faecesbook et al

[Anonymous Coward]

"but they will "SELL IT" to the highest bidder,"

Wrong. They know the real value is in the information themselves. They will sell the *use* of data through their tools only, not the real data. You'll have to pay them every time you need to use them.

I'm sure FB was much angrier because CA was able to steal its valuable information FB had slurped than CA using them for their nefarious purpose.

Who control the information can control people...

[Jemma]

Can we have...

Some real landmines in tech HQs please (said in Oliver Twist quote fashion for best effect).

I'm thinking something roughly the size of the Lochnagar mine, using the national molecule of ISIS/Somalia/Palestine/NI, TATP.

They just don't understand that no means no. Or in most cases "hell, no". The government agencies tell them don't do that, consumers say don't do that, industry bodies tell them to stop. What do they do? Ignore everyone and just do what they want, to who they want, when they want.

That's above and beyond the software that's flakier than a lepers crotch, data breaches and crappy code and security thereof. Putting Windows 10 on a computer should have a warning on the box that it's the IT equivalent of giving that Maureen woman from the bad drivers series an M1 Abrams & free fuel for life. You know it's a bad idea, but you just can't stop - or look away..

[Charles 9]

Re: Can we have...

Actually, it's you who doesn't understand that there are people who don't take NO for an answer...AND have the ability to bribe any guns you hire to turn on you at the last minute.

So what's it gonna be...the no-lube job or the lead lobotomy? And no, there is no third option.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Can we have...

Actually, it's you who doesn't understand that there are people who don't take NO for an answer...

Government firepower trumps software firm's crap any day. Except maybe in your mind.

[Charles 9]

Re: Can we have...

Unless said software firm is back by ANOTHER government WITH firepower. That's the problem with China. THEY have nukes AND a philosophical history more likely to accept MAD.

[karlkarl]

If you have to stick with Windows because either yourself or your boss is an idiot then just get creative with the firewall and block everything other than DHCP, DNS, Git, Iridium (Web Browser) and a few other online programs you use.

[Jemma]

Blocking git(s)

I don't think any of my bosses would have liked that if I did that to them... But oh God, it's such a wonderful thought. A Boss Firewall - someone *has* to invent that.

[Anonymous Coward]

> just get creative with the firewall

Which firewall? If you're meaning "Windows Firewall", on Windows itself, you're dreaming.

It'll be one of the first thing they changed so it never blocks telemetry, regardless of the settings you plug into it.

[JohnFen]

Yes. I don't count "Windows firewall" as a real firewall at all. The only kind that counts is an external standalone firewall.

[Carl D]

>> Which firewall? If you're meaning "Windows Firewall", on Windows itself, you're dreaming.

It'll be one of the first thing they changed so it never blocks telemetry, regardless of the settings you plug into it. <<

- AC.

I'm sure there are a lot of things that Windows Firewall never blocks (even if you think it does).

As an example, the latest versions of CCleaner were showing a 'flyout' ad for a Black Friday special in the bottom right hand corner of the screen a few weeks back.

The recommendation to stop it from a lot of people was to block CCleaner's access to the Internet - I set up Windows Firewall to block CCleaner (and yes, I did have it set up correctly - I rechecked several times) and the ad still appeared.

Using One Click Firewall (based on another recommendation) solved the issue for me. No more CCleaner ads.

[Anonymous Coward]

CCleaner (Credit Card cleaner?)

> ... the latest versions of CCleaner were showing a 'flyout' ad ...

In case you haven't seen the CCleaner problem from a while back:

http://time.com/4946576/ccleaner-malware-hack/

[Anonymous Coward]

cock-up or conspiracy

"In what is likely to be more cock-up than conspiracy, it appears that Microsoft is continuing to collect data on recent user activities even when the user has explicitly said NO, DAMMIT!"

There really is someone at El Reg that gullible ???? Has Dilbert's pointy hair boss made its way through your site, guys ?

Come on, it's MS and like FB, they need to cash out on something, ie, your data. Extortion, since the dawn of humanity has always been about claiming, then, if exposed, claiming it was a sad mistake.

[Wayland]

Re: cock-up or conspiracy

I think there are social and legal pressures against telling the truth. It obviously is a conspiracy because Microsoft have made so many cockups that cause data slurping. I think their user file deletions the other month were an actual cockup but it's hard to see how you could damage user data when you're just putting files in c:\windows which does not contain user data.

I would prefer people just to call a spade a spade but these days no one gets into trouble for lying but plenty get into trouble for telling the truth.

[Excused Boots]

Re: cock-up or conspiracy

'Never ascribe to malice that which can be better explained through incompetence' as a wise person once said, (although I've probably paraphrased it).

In Microsoft's case, I'm not sure which of the two is preferable!

[caffeine addict]

So - what's the current favourite for automating turning off all the Win10 crap?

Bonus marks if it also disables the advertising that appears on the lock screen.

[Chozo]

You could go back to running DOS

[LenG]

Install Linux

[CAPS LOCK]

They're here...

Microsoft Online Reputation Managers...