back to article British snoops at GCHQ knew FBI was going to arrest Marcus Hutchins

Secretive electronic spy agency GCHQ was aware that accused malware author Marcus Hutchins, aka MalwareTechBlog, was due to be arrested by US authorities when he travelled to United States for the DEF CON hacker conference, according to reports. The Sunday Times – the newspaper where the Brit government of the day usually …

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      1. Dan 55 Silver badge

        The courts fought extradition. The government obviously didn't give a toss and only thought of the headlines and the special relationship...

        1. Adam 52 Silver badge

          McKinnon was blocked by one Theresa May. Very much government and not judiciary (I shudder at even thinking about the prospect).

          1. Dan 55 Silver badge

            Seems May wanted to block it to avoid flak from Labour and the Lib Dems, but could only block it on medical grounds, which she did.

            Teflon Theresa May defies expectations over McKinnon

            She then gave the courts the power to block extradition requests outside the EU in the interests of justice, washing her hands of future controversies like this.

            Gary McKinnon saved from extradition to US on hacking charges

            Now it seems the US isn't too happy about that.

    1. dcluley

      Of course it was different when we wanted to extradite IRA terrorists from the USA. Somehow their courts always found something wrong with the paperwork.

      1. Teiwaz

        U.s of Pimp

        Of course it was different when we wanted to extradite IRA terrorists from the USA. Somehow their courts always found something wrong with the paperwork.

        Of course, the U.S is like a pimp, where every 'world citizen' is a free access resource to exploit by fair means or foul, but U.S citizens are their bitches, no one touches them but the U.S.

    2. Warm Braw

      some people... have managed to avoid extradition

      And it appears we haven't attempt to extradite the NSA folk who managed to loose the EternalBlue exploit on the world - the one behind Petya and WannaCry. It would be interesting to see how far that got in a US court.

  1. ritey

    Of course GCHQ knew about it

    They've been hacking the US administration for years. Isn't there a wooden spoon icon?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Of course GCHQ knew about it

      They've been hacking the US administration for years

      You think our Civil Service bureaucrats have even that level of competence?

    2. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: Of course GCHQ knew about it

      Well with this leak or admission, it would seem that GCHQ are volunteering to pay all Hutchins' US living expenses and legal costs...

  2. kain preacher

    Ok lets set aside any dislike you might of had for the US. Some things that popped up in my head. A. ) He did it and was passed his usefulness. B.)The real person works for the GCHQ and far to valuable and the GCHQ set his ass up.This just does not smell right from the UK end. It could just be that he really really pissed the wrong person of or the GCHQ believes he did some thing far worse and don't want the egg on their face for using him.

    1. Eugene Crosser

      Coercion?

      Well, this may sound like tinfoil hat talk, but it actually starts to look like one of two things:

      • Spooks (US or British) need to coerce him to do some job for them, or
      • They want to teach him (and maybe others) a lesson after he'd refused to do some job for them.

      It looks like all they have against him is the old blog post, some code from which was found in Kronos (which is no surprise), his tongue-in-the-cheek remark that "selling it would be illegal", and his visit to the shooting range. And as in the US this nonsense can get you in jail for many years, so it had to be on the US soil to be a convincing threat. Easy bail conditions that he got speak for the first option.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "This just does not smell right from the UK end"

      Actually, wheras the US government will go out of its way to protect its citizens from foreign courts, even when they're looking as guilty as sin, the UK government are a pathetic bunch of third rate patsies, who'd always give in to the slightest pressure, regardless how dodgy the charges against a British citizen are. There's a series of cases where the UK government has happily extradited people to The Land Formerly Known As The Land of the Free, for things that either weren't an offence where they were allegedly committed, or where there were adequate statutes to allow prosecution in the UK for a UK offence.

      Sadly it won't happen, but if the US authorities are getting narked that we're not cooperating enough with them, I'd turn off all cooperation for a week or two, and tell them to stop being dicks, or the non-cooperation becomes permanent. In a further recent example of the contemptible arrogance the US authorities have for British cooperation, when our people shared confidential police photographs of a recent terrorist atrocity, they appeared in the New York Times the next day. At least the US TLA's now have the commander in chief they deserve!

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        he UK government are a pathetic bunch of third rate patsies, who'd always give in to the slightest pressure, regardless how dodgy the charges against a British citizen are.

        Apart from Portugal, 2007.

        But hey, it's only the Portuguese justice system they interfered with...

    3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      @kain preacher

      C) FBI need to keep their numbers up and a foreign kid is a soft target if some sort of case can be cobbled up.

      1. kain preacher

        But why then did the UK just let him go ?

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "you might of"

      You sound like a smart guy.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Blame

    Maybe it would be appropriate to blame the one person that was busted and pointed the finger at him?

    Since this anonymous person is the only reason he was indicated.

  4. Tim99 Silver badge
    Big Brother

    Perhaps, none of the above

    Do we really think that governments want to stop malware? The murk allows large players to hide along with the small criminals.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    British Intelligence

    If they knew the Americans were after him, why didn't they sneak him off to an undisclosed safehouse on some nice island somewhere? They just gave up?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: British Intelligence

      If they knew the Americans were after him, why didn't they sneak him off to an undisclosed safehouse on some nice island somewhere? They just gave up?

      He just wasn't useful enough to them.

      1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

        Re: British Intelligence

        "He just wasn't useful enough to them."

        Depends how you look at it. He was useful enough as either a jeton or a scapegoat.

  6. EveryTime

    For me, the first tip-off that the case was weak was the inclusion of the shooting range visit in the bail opposition.

    It's pretty common that European visitors like to visit a shooting range. My experience might be a little biased by because I mostly know tech workers visiting for a conference or a brief work visit, but that's exactly the situation here. It doesn't mean that they are planning on becoming a serial killer, it's just an activity that is easier to do in the U.S. Pretty much like watching a cricket match when visiting England. You can see one in the U.S., but it's not convenient.

    1. klempie

      You can see one in the U.S., but it's not convenient.

      HAHAHAHA That made my day.

  7. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

    Wannabe Air Guitar Heroes

    British snoops at GCHQ knew FBI was going to arrest Marcus Hutchins

    When you is second fiddle in the orchestra you don’t get to conduct anything nor perform anything of outstanding note. Aint that right, boys and girls of an ailing and failing second class state.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Wannabe Air Guitar Heroes

      Aint that right, boys and girls of an ailing and failing second class state.

      From the right side of the pond it it isn't that clear which is the state you're referring to.

      1. Brewster's Angle Grinder Silver badge
        Terminator

        The grasshopper enigma.

        "...it isn't that clear which is the state you're referring to."

        Well, in the case of amfM1, it's the state of being self-conscious.

    2. batfink

      Re: Wannabe Air Guitar Heroes

      Alright - which of you has hacked amanfrommars' account?

      That post made far too much sense to be from the man himself...

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Marcus is correct about Google maps sending you walking down California freeways

    I was on a bicycle, but it happened to me just last week. Google said there was a "freeway hike and bike trail" beside the freeway. There was no freeway hike and bike trail. There was just freeway. And me, hiking my bike over the tumbleweeds to try to get away from the freeway onramp that Google had sent me down.

  9. Lord Elpuss Silver badge

    "Previously, FBI agents had tried claiming Hutchins might try obtaining firearms to commit crimes, based solely on his having tweeted about visiting a shooting range in Las Vegas"

    Fuck you, Feds. Seriously. Fuck. You.

    1. Teiwaz

      America the Shooting Range

      "Previously, FBI agents had tried claiming Hutchins might try obtaining firearms to commit crimes, based solely on his having tweeted about visiting a shooting range in Las Vegas"

      Fuck you, Feds. Seriously. Fuck. You.

      Pretty standard straight line thinking from 'law enforcement' these days - It seems for certain charges* levelled they are prepared to assume the accused was planning anything and everything from eating babies and preparing to initiate World War III - Well, anything they think the public will buy into.

      But seriously, isn't going on a gun-toting rampage in the U.S not just considered 'teen angst' these days??

  10. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Unhappy

    GCHQ is not worried. The new law will allow them to (essentially) conscript them.

    I thought the "The Rhesus Chart" was a thriller, not a f**king manual.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "Secretive electronic spy agency GCHQ"

    Well yeah - I hope they are at least a bit secretive.

  12. ITnoob

    This will be used in years to come as the text-book example of stitching up like a kipper.

    If he ever returns to UK soil I would love to hear his opinions of the current UK Government.

    Genuine question - In his line of work is he likely to have anything incriminating he could use as leverage?

    1. anothercynic Silver badge

      'current government' is irrelevant. The spooks and mandarins don't change even if the government does. Therein lies the continuity (and the problem).

    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      "Genuine question - In his line of work is he likely to have anything incriminating he could use as leverage?"

      Well, for one thing he could give evidence about the dangers of the malware the USG managed to lose.

  13. anothercynic Silver badge

    Just lovely...

    ... Note to self. Don't ever work for GCHQ or its tentacles. That was simply ice cold.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Oh wait a second...

    There seriously seems to be people on all sides with a lot of money invested in both protecting and ensuring malware got onto systems (of varying sizes and companies/public firms). So any one, or more, of them could have framed or outed.

    Even though no bit coins were withdrawn, someone somewhere got egg on their face, and want this guy to "pay".

  15. M7S

    Is Machiavelli dead?

    "First look to your defences"

    A bit difficult if any citizen with the talent to help defend fellow citizens is left to the mercies of a foreign power.

    I'm not judging his guilt in this allegation, and don't understand the boundaries of Infosec research in any sense (legal, technical or practical) but he is a Brit, even if the only approach was a "Lord Vetinari" like 'quiet word' before he left these shores (or maybe not, after such a word) that would surely be in our national interest.

    I'm not sure how others will be encouraged, but I fear not in the best way for our long term well being.

    1. John G Imrie

      Re: Is Machiavelli dead?

      Vetinari never waisted talent if he could help it, the only words Vetinari would have said to Hutchens would be, 'Don't go'

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I seem to remember that USA kidnapping a Russian gentleman from the Seychelles on similar charges, and he was thrown in gaol on the flimsiest of evidence. There was no objection from the government of the Seychelles that foreign nationals were being kidnapped, which is rather shocking.

    So, be very very careful...

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Wannacry - who dunnit?

    Perhaps they are pissed off at him for stopping Wannacry before it achieved its target...

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    With Boss Hogg and Rosco in charge of the USA

    It's a no go area.

    Avoid.

  19. stewwy

    NHS

    Just a theory, maybe the Current Lot of incompetents where pissed off that he stopped WanaCry 'Cause "OMFG the NHS has been hacked, better privatize it"

  20. mark l 2 Silver badge

    I am assuming the only reason he wasn't arrested in the UK and extradited was because the evidence was very thin on the ground and the authorities doubted they would win the case. I find it difficult to think you could successfully win a case where some sort of computer crime had occurred without doing a search of his residence for computer equipment and taking that as evidence.

    If i were him I would head directly to the US border with either Mexico or Canada and get out of that $hit hole to never return.

    1. Sir Runcible Spoon

      Unfortunately that *would * make him a criminal (breach of bail conditions).

  21. CAPS LOCK

    ...and with this revelation Hutchins is totally screwed...

    The British security services will now have to make sure he never comes back.

  22. Zippy's Sausage Factory

    Quick thought

    If the US government gets hold of his electronic devices, how much secret GCHQ information is there on them that the US government didn't have? And was that the US government's real target in the first place?

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    freed the British government from the "headache of an extradition battle" with the Americans.

    this does inspire confidence in my own government! Not that I had high expectations, ever, but...

  24. Dan 10

    So, my understanding is that Marcus posted his PoC code showing some form of malware API hooks publicly, then a month later and much to Hutchins public surprise, it turns up in Kronos, heavily adapted to weaponize it and turn it into something useful. According to the Kronos analysis on malwarebytes:

    1. The API hooks had been shown previously, suggesting that both Hutchins and the Russian-speaking Kronos author had lifted the concept from elsewhere

    2. The other common factor was use of a particular lock instruction

    3. Kronos is quite different from Hutchins code, involving an extra layer of difficulty in using shellcode instead of a pe file, combined with some counter-surveillance and anti-detection techniques

    So, the FBI appear to be gambling a couple of decades of gradually-fostered goodwill between white-hats and the authorities on the use of a single command, to try and show intent of financial gain by a guy who donated his $10k wannacry bounty to charity. Uh yeah, good luck with that.

    Regardless of what happens, why would Hutchins collaborate with the NCSC again?

    Weirdly, malwarebytes goes so far as to patronise Hutchins by declaring that Kronos is the work of a 'mature malware author', rather than an 'experimenting youngster'. Sort of a backhanded exoneration, if you will.

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